PDA

View Full Version : Do 10/30 magazines need to be permanent?


strangerdude
08-24-2011, 1:22 PM
I have some rebuild kits which I inserted a bolt on the side of the mag to only allow 10 rounds. I've used these mags out of state so it would be convenient not to make them permanent.

Exile Machine
08-24-2011, 1:24 PM
Law says permanent...

(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following: (A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

strangerdude
08-24-2011, 1:30 PM
Damnit I hate this state, thanks. So what is permanent? Can I weld the nut to the bolt instead of having to weld my magazine shut?

choprzrul
08-24-2011, 1:46 PM
JB Weld the nut to the bolt? Perhaps Epoxy?

.

strangerdude
08-24-2011, 1:49 PM
Didn't even think of epoxy, I'll probably do that.

WDE91
08-24-2011, 1:59 PM
epoxy is the way to go

OleCuss
08-24-2011, 2:13 PM
If you can get a rivet or two to work that should be considered permanent. Not as messy as epoxy.

BluePhoenix7
08-24-2011, 2:26 PM
You're not restricted if it's a "featureless" rifle.

Also, owning 30 round magazines is not illegal.

Here is an awesome resource to look over. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ

Look at chapter 8 for your answers.

MasterYong
08-24-2011, 3:47 PM
You're not restricted if it's a "featureless" rifle.

Also, owning 30 round magazines is not illegal.

Here is an awesome resource to look over. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ

Look at chapter 8 for your answers.

Yeah, except he said they were rebuild kits. He never said they were his old, already-owned mags.

In light of that, your post comes off as though you're suggesting he break the law by assembling the high-cap rebuild kits into functional, high-cap mags and then use them in a featureless rifle.

If he owned high-cap magazines before the law went into effect, he likely wouldn't be neutering them into 10 round mags. He would just buy 10 round mags, or 10/30s, etc.

Don't encourage people to break the law, it makes all gun owners look bad. An unenforceable law is still a law.

dantodd
08-24-2011, 4:40 PM
You could epoxy a stilt to the follower to limit the capacity. This would be "reversible" by simply replacing the follower when out of state. A follower is probably cheap enough.

RRichie09
08-24-2011, 10:17 PM
You could epoxy a stilt to the follower to limit the capacity. This would be "reversible" by simply replacing the follower when out of state. A follower is probably cheap enough.

WIth that logic you can just get the magblocks that replace the floorplate.

BluePhoenix7
08-24-2011, 10:24 PM
I'm not suggesting anyone break a law.

I merely wanted to stress that having a 30 round magazine in a featureless rifle is perfectly legal since he never said which type he owned.

jhaselton
08-24-2011, 10:26 PM
The magblocks that replace the floor plates are arguably permanent. When they're inserted the magazine can only hold 10 rounds. No matter what you do. To make them accept more than 10 rounds you have to disassemble them back into legally owned parts kits. Then you have to illegally manufacture a high capacity magazine.

What you're comfortable with is up to you.

I like rivets.

dantodd
08-24-2011, 10:36 PM
WIth that logic you can just get the magblocks that replace the floorplate.

Since you cannot create a "large-capacity ammunition feeding device" with the set of parts you have I suspect that a floorplate block would suffice. However; the one difference is that with a stilt on the follower you MUST completely disassemble the magazine to change its capacity. We have a letter that a disassembled magazine ceases to be a magazine and becomes a collection of parts which are unregulated in CA. The floorplate block doesn't require the same complete disassembly and the State hasn't said exactly how much of the magazine has to be disassembled before it ceases to be a magazine.

goodlookin1
08-25-2011, 6:33 AM
There is no such thing as "irreversable" or "permanent". The law says that "permanently altered" is sufficiently understood by a reasonable person. So whatever you do, you have to ask yourself, would my peers see my efforts as "permanent"? Only you can answer that question as that level of comfort is different for different people.

Personally, the way I read the law, since there is officially no stated thing you can do to make it permanent, why try so hard? I like to be able to open my mag up for cleaning. So what I did was got some epoxy and glued the floor plate to my mag block. So now, when I disassemble my mag, it is still "permanently altered" (in my mind) and can never accept more than 10 rounds UNLESS I bought new parts and rebuilt it, which would be building a DIFFERENT or NEW magazine, not rebuilding the same one. In the eyes of the law, a disassembled magazine =/= magazine (unless it's a legally owned HCM)....it's simply parts, or a parts kit. Otherwise we would not be allowed to buy parts kits! Essentially (in my mind), so long as my "alteration" is such that whenever I assemble the parts and it does not have the ability to ever hold more than 10 rounds, I have complied with the law.

It doesnt have anything to do with how much work or amount of tools it takes to disassemble.....time and tools is of no concern. Basically, the law states that you cannot EVER build a HCM. So if you never do that, then you're in the clear. Permanently Altered is so vague, and the DOJ has refused to define exactly what it means or what it constitutes, which is why many people dont even touch rebuild kits. They only buy 10 rounders. The stupid thing about that is that you can still modify a 10 round mag to hold more than 10 rounds, so it really means nothing.

In the end, if you got popped for using a 10 round "HCM" (legally assembled and blocked rebuild kit), you'd NEED to call CGN.....the case would either be droppped, or if it came to it, you'd end up being judged by your peers. Do what you think a reasonable person would do to make it permanently altered. But from what I understand, there has never been a conviction of building a HCM when it only holds 10 rounds, and there has not been a conviction for a 10 round rebuild kit NOT being permanently altered. Dont take my word for it, but you only see these convictions if you're getting popped for something else, like an unreg'd banned semi-auto rifle (AW) or something.

YMMV

PixelBender
08-25-2011, 4:51 PM
"(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered"

I had the same question. I'm planning on JBWelding or using Epoxy or whatever to secure "permanently" the Spring to the 10/30 Stilt. Done and done.

I dont completely ruine magazines for "..rest fo the country" use" and the mags only hold 10 rounds.

chiz
08-25-2011, 8:33 PM
Since you cannot create a "large-capacity ammunition feeding device" with the set of parts you have I suspect that a floorplate block would suffice. However; the one difference is that with a stilt on the follower you MUST completely disassemble the magazine to change its capacity. We have a letter that a disassembled magazine ceases to be a magazine and becomes a collection of parts which are unregulated in CA. The floorplate block doesn't require the same complete disassembly and the State hasn't said exactly how much of the magazine has to be disassembled before it ceases to be a magazine.

I agree with this but I would think that it doesn't matter how much you have to take it apart. If it is not completely assembled then it is still parts.

gunn
08-26-2011, 9:44 AM
Magazines are generally cheap enough. Buy some 10 rounders or permanently modify rebuild kits to fit only 10 rds and buy a few more kits to assemble out of state.

For the permanent 10rd mags I have for use in CA, I prefer the most conservative route possible: epoxied rivet PLUS silt or magblock AND epoxied baseplate. There's no way to fit more than 10rds and no way to modify it back without destroying the mag. Permanent.

-g

socalocalypse
08-26-2011, 10:09 AM
For the 5 or 6 bucks a magblock costs plus epoxy plus rivet and instal time not to mention crapping up a nice mag, id rather just buy a $10 10rd mag and be done with it. If I look less manly cuz I have a short mag, well its not the length its how you use it :-D

jink122
08-26-2011, 1:11 PM
Since you cannot create a "large-capacity ammunition feeding device" with the set of parts you have I suspect that a floorplate block would suffice. However; the one difference is that with a stilt on the follower you MUST completely disassemble the magazine to change its capacity. We have a letter that a disassembled magazine ceases to be a magazine and becomes a collection of parts which are unregulated in CA. The floorplate block doesn't require the same complete disassembly and the State hasn't said exactly how much of the magazine has to be disassembled before it ceases to be a magazine.

Can u post the letter?

dantodd
08-26-2011, 1:34 PM
Can u post the letter?

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf