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View Full Version : Some more legal questions (debate at the shop.)


blkA4alb
01-21-2007, 3:35 PM
A person moved here from New York, and after settling in California arranged to have his handguns transferred from a New York FFL to a California FFL. Two of the guns are on the California approved list and the third is not. So the two questions are, can the two approved guns be DROSed as dealer sale "used"? And how can you register the third gun (not on the approved list) without valid California private party information. The guns are at the California FFL and logged on the books.

My assumption is that he could just submit a voluntary gun registation form and send it in to the DOJ.

(Written by a coworker.)

Thanks in advance.

NSR500
01-21-2007, 3:48 PM
I remember reading here a few months ago that the one that is not on the list can be brought into CA if the person moving files a "Personal Import" on the pistol.

M. Sage
01-21-2007, 3:49 PM
+1. He doesn't need to ship FFL to FFL. Just bring them with the rest of his stuff, IIRC.

Matt C
01-21-2007, 4:07 PM
Why on earth would he use an FFL to transfer his own guns? All he needs to do is bring them and register the HGs within 30 days.

Hunter
01-21-2007, 4:23 PM
A person moved here from New York, and after settling in California arranged to have his handguns transferred from a New York FFL to a California FFL. Two of the guns are on the California approved list and the third is not. So the two questions are, can the two approved guns be DROSed as dealer sale "used"? And how can you register the third gun (not on the approved list) without valid California private party information. The guns are at the California FFL and logged on the books.
My assumption is that he could just submit a voluntary gun registation form and send it in to the DOJ.

(Written by a coworker.)

Thanks in advance.


This transfer would be done by claiming two exemptions (exempt from being on the Certified Roster, and exempt from the "one handgun per thirty days" limit), and in the comments section of the DROS form, state that they are already personally owned handguns of Mr. XXXXX, and that are being relocated from his prior out of state home into California by him via FFL dealers.

This is the same approach one would do for a "gift" from a parent that resides out of state. But in that case one would write in the comments section of the DROS form that it is a "Gift from XXXXX" (state relationship of person giving the gift, such as Mother or Father).

Also having a signed letter (notarized wouldn't hurt) from the handgun owner, to give to the FFL holder to keep with the records, would be a good idea as well.

The bottomline is that this owner is shipping his handguns to himself, he is just using FFL dealers in the process to facilitate the transfer ( especially from NY). But the paper trail will show that the NY FFL holder logged them into his books FROM the owner and the CA FFL holder's log will show they are transfered back to the owner.

bwiese
01-21-2007, 4:44 PM
You do not need permission to get your own guns.

Send them to yourself, or bring them in.

Just file a "New Resident Personal Handgun Importer" form (forget the exact name) within 60 days of bringing them in.

Hunter
01-21-2007, 5:51 PM
You do not need permission to get your own guns.

Send them to yourself, or bring them in.

Just file a "New Resident Personal Handgun Importer" form (forget the exact name) within 60 days of bringing them in.


That is true, but in this case the guns are ALREADY in the hands of a CA FFL holder, so it is too late for that approach. The question now is how to get them from the CA FFL dealer without having to send them back to the NY FFL and retrieving them on that end. What I posted above does solve the problem. It now will cost a little more to get them, compared to just importing them to yourself and filing the $19 form. On the otherhand, having them go thru the FFL dealer does the same as filing the importation form directly.

Matt C
01-21-2007, 6:16 PM
I would be like, "Hey, give me my guns...." Maybe give him some of my business as a thanks for letting me use his address to ship the stuff, which is all he did.

blkA4alb
01-21-2007, 8:45 PM
Thanks for the replys guys, there may be more questions in the future ;) .

tenpercentfirearms
01-21-2007, 10:14 PM
I don't know about that Hunter. As a FFL dealer I don't think I would want to do something like that. What documentation would I provide to prove he had indeed just moved and that it was legal for me to transfer an unsafe handgun to a man who "claims" he moved from New York? If I were the FFL, I would have never taken the guns in the first place. I would have just said, "Bring them in and fill out the form and mail it yourself." Sounds to me like the FFL just wants to make some extra money for nothing, but it also sounds like he is taking a big risk DROSing a handgun not on the approved list because a guy said he was moving into the state.

Also what exemption would justify skipping the 30 days rule? Again, what evidence would a gun dealer put on any of this to cover his own rear end? Does the customer have a valid CA ID? Does he have an HSC? Utility bills? Sounds like a CA resident to me and not eligible for skipping 30 day waits and being exempt from the roster.

This would be interested for the DOJ to chime in on.

socalguns
01-21-2007, 11:25 PM
60 days
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#24
# I am moving into California and I own several handguns. What are the new-resident registration requirements?

You are considered to be a personal handgun importer as defined by California law. You may bring all of your otherwise California-legal firearms with you, but you must report all of your handguns to the DOJ within 60 days as required utilizing the New Resident Handgun Ownership Report. PDF logo [PDF 518 kb / 2 pg] You are not required to report rifles or shotguns. You may not bring ammunition feeding devices with a capacity greater than ten rounds, machineguns, or assault weapons into California.

(PC sections 12001(n), 12072(f)(2))