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Pablo22
08-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Mr. B,

Thank you for contacting Senator Dutton regarding this year’s batch of gun control bills. Thank you so much for serving our great Nation as a proud Marine -- Semper Fidelis!

Senator Dutton is an avid sportsman and hunter, and an active member of the NRA. As a matter of fact, he has a prize-winning gun dog, and takes him to field trials when he gets the chance.

You may rest assured that the Senator will oppose this, and any, legislation that restricts the reasonable 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.

I hope this helps -- please feel free to call if you have any questions.

Jennifer


Anyone know the definition of "reasonable" 2nd Amendment Rights?

SwissFluCase
08-24-2011, 10:33 AM
They think we won't notice the weasel words. What does hunting have to do with any of this? Did you express concern about that particular issue?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

thenodnarb
08-24-2011, 10:34 AM
Mr. B,

Thank you for contacting Senator Dutton regarding this year’s batch of gun control bills. Thank you so much for serving our great Nation as a proud Marine -- Semper Fidelis!

Senator Dutton is an avid sportsman and hunter, and an active member of the NRA. As a matter of fact, he has a prize-winning gun dog, and takes him to field trials when he gets the chance.

You may rest assured that the Senator will oppose this, and any, legislation that restricts the reasonable 2nd Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens.

I hope this helps -- please feel free to call if you have any questions.

Jennifer


Anyone know the definition of "reasonable" 2nd Amendment Rights?

technically, reasonable means the same thing it does in the 4th ammendment. "unreasonable" means without a reason(legal constitutional reason). Today it has become a subjective term. I would say reasonable limitation to the 2nd ammentment would be prohibiting the private ownership nuclear weapons :D

swilson
08-24-2011, 10:35 AM
"Reasonable" is a very short way of saying: "I'll tell you one thing but vote completely opposite when I feel the political need to do so to save my job/benefits/credibility/power, yet still leaving myself a hole to weasel my way out of and still be right because I said reasonable and not all or none"

dantodd
08-24-2011, 10:37 AM
I actually like that. It turns "reasonable" around on the antis.

Phouty
08-24-2011, 12:17 PM
At least Senator Dutton has a prize-winning gun dog.
Does it mean that Senator seeks advice of his dog in RKBA matters?:rolleyes:

dantodd
08-24-2011, 12:21 PM
Denigrating a purported ally is seriously counter-productive. Unless you know that the senator is all talk and doesn't really support the Second Amendment stop tearing into him. Do we have so many allies in the state senate that you feel we can afford to alienate one of them?

bwiese
08-24-2011, 1:07 PM
Jeezus, why the uninformed want to attack our USEFUL FRIENDS is indeed puzzling.

Folks, please ease up on Dutton - esp given this is a staffer's casual phrasing.

Remember that Dutton carried SB269 in 2005 (operational 1/1/06), which was the Roster exemption for single-shot pistols (12133PC).

Look how far we've run with that baby...

....if you have an OLL AR / AK pistol, a Gen4 Glock or some non-Rostered 1911, etc. you really should be thanking Sen. Dutton.
Some of that phrasing was very very useful in 12133PC to reduce work level/cost on these conversions.

Glock22Fan
08-24-2011, 1:13 PM
Denigrating a purported ally is seriously counter-productive. Unless you know that the senator is all talk and doesn't really support the Second Amendment stop tearing into him. Do we have so many allies in the state senate that you feel we can afford to alienate one of them?

I agree. As I started reading this thread I wondered why he was attacked.

So, he used "reasonable." At least he said "reasonable 2nd amendment rights." Would have had the opposite meaning if he'd said "reasonable gun control measures."

By slipping "reasonable" in there, he's not trying to appease us but rather to not look too die-hard to the antis who might vote for him. Even if he's totally for us, he'd be stupid to say "I support any and all gun rights, however unreasonable."

HowardW56
08-24-2011, 1:26 PM
That seems like a decent reply to me. I have the displeasure of having Ted Lieu as my state senator, regardless what topic I contact his office regarding, I have never received a reply.

Phouty
08-24-2011, 1:30 PM
It's neither about Sen. Dutton's political stance, nor denigrating his person.
It is about his staffers who list a mere possesion of a well trained dog, I presume, as a 'crown argument' in support of his political views. :facepalm:
One would expect better performance from the office of a state official.
That's all!

dantodd
08-24-2011, 1:42 PM
It's neither about Sen. Dutton's political stance, nor denigrating his person.
It is about his staffers who list a mere possesion of a well trained dog I presume, as a 'crown argument' in support of his political views. :facepalm:
One would expect better performance from the office of a state official.
That's all!

Really, take a chill pill. Being an active part of the gun culture is really something to be proud of and training/working a world-class dog is a real commitment and worthy of being proud. You can't beat someone up based solely on the fact that one email didn't adequately expound on all his support over the years.

If you find inadequate data in a response ask for, or look for, more data rather than crapping all over someone's earnest attempt to respond to a constituents question. If he were merely providing a perfunctory response it would have been easy to merely say "The senator opposed the legislation you asked about."

bwiese
08-24-2011, 1:45 PM
It's neither about Sen. Dutton's political stance, nor denigrating his person.
It is about his staffers who list a mere possesion of a well trained dog I presume, as a 'crown argument' in support of his political views. :facepalm:
One would expect better performance from the office of a state official.
That's all!

Um, you're holding out for analytical deep discussion with a twentysomething outreach coordinator who probably confuses RKBA with hunter issues? For a short email, one of hundreds with constituents?

The mention of hunting dogs was an 'affinity' thing - "I'm with you."

Give these folks a break.

I've already told you that Dutton has been very helpful to us.

Can we perhaps redirect our attacks to those that are doing nothing or hurting us???

HowardW56
08-24-2011, 2:09 PM
Um, you're holding out for analytical deep discussion with a twentysomething outreach coordinator who probably confuses RKBA with hunter issues? For a short email, one of hundreds with constituents?

The mention of hunting dogs was an 'affinity' thing - "I'm with you."

Give these folks a break.

I've already told you that Dutton has been very helpful to us.

Can we perhaps redirect our attacks to those that are doing nothing or hurting us???


May I offer Ted Lieu as a target....

SwissFluCase
08-24-2011, 2:49 PM
Jeezus, why the uninformed want to attack our USEFUL FRIENDS is indeed puzzling.

Folks, please ease up on Dutton - esp given this is a staffer's casual phrasing.

Remember that Dutton carried SB269 in 2005 (operational 1/1/06), which was the Roster exemption for single-shot pistols (12133PC).

Look how far we've run with that baby...

....if you have an OLL AR / AK pistol, a Gen4 Glock or some non-Rostered 1911, etc. you really should be thanking Sen. Dutton.
Some of that phrasing was very very useful in 12133PC to reduce work level/cost on these conversions.

Bill, I trust your analysis, but please remember that we have been burned by so called hunters that have attacked the 2nd Amendment. It is our nature to question all claims until a track record can be produced that supports a politician's claims.

Thanks for the info. He has my support.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

bwiese
08-24-2011, 3:17 PM
Bill, I trust your analysis, but please remember that we have been burned by so called hunters that have attacked the 2nd Amendment. It is our nature to question all claims until a track record can be produced that supports a politician's claims.


True, but again THIS MAN CARRIED LEGISLATION FOR US.

It was realizable incremental legislation that would let us run with the ball - and unlike other legislators' puff pieces that
had no chance of passing or created unworkable side conditions, etc. and that were merely PR for unthinking gun votes.

Young staffers answering letters from even the most rabidly pro-gun legislator will not be doing deep analysis
or thinking deeply about precise wording.

notme92069
08-24-2011, 3:20 PM
Jeezus, why the uninformed want to attack our USEFUL FRIENDS is indeed puzzling.

Folks, please ease up on Dutton - esp given this is a staffer's casual phrasing.

Remember that Dutton carried SB269 in 2005 (operational 1/1/06), which was the Roster exemption for single-shot pistols (12133PC).

Look how far we've run with that baby...

....if you have an OLL AR / AK pistol, a Gen4 Glock or some non-Rostered 1911, etc. you really should be thanking Sen. Dutton.
Some of that phrasing was very very useful in 12133PC to reduce work level/cost on these conversions.

He's my newest hero!

dantodd
08-24-2011, 3:23 PM
Bill, I trust your analysis, but please remember that we have been burned by so called hunters that have attacked the 2nd Amendment. It is our nature to question all claims until a track record can be produced that supports a politician's claims.

Thanks for the info. He has my support.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Even if he was only moderately pro-gun that is a huge improvement over most of our state legislators. It would be a shame to shove fence sitters off of the fence in the wrong direction by attacking them on the issues where they DO agree with us.

Leave those tactics to the GOA, it seems to be their specialty.

Pablo22
08-24-2011, 4:10 PM
I was very happy to receive more than a generic response (like i do from Boxer n Feinstein when I tell them what a Great Job I think they are doing ;)) from Jennifer. I only recently got involved in contacting my representatives about issues that are important to me so I was just curious if the "reasonable" wording was standard issue. From the majority I can find about Senator Dutton he is a good guy and I'm glad to have him as my rep.