PDA

View Full Version : Dumb right turn trick.


RazzB7
08-24-2011, 9:50 AM
I'm not a LEO, but this forum is here, so I figure I would take advantage of it.

I have to go through a busy intersection twice a day, every day. It usually has a lot of left turn traffic, so there is usually a lengthy wait. I've noticed a recent trend that really ticks me off every time I see it. People are coming up to the red light, stopping, making the right turn on red....going about 50 yards down the street, making a U-turn (actually more of a ")" shaped turn), making another right turn on red and continuing in their original direction of travel.

Obviously, they're doing this to avoid the wait at the red light. I have no doubt that this is illegal, and it's obvious to me that it is dangerous.

My question is this: As a LEO, would you respond rather "forcefully" to such an offense? I know that there are traffic violations that LEO consider pretty ticky-tack and then there are violations that get's taken VERY seriously. What are your thoughts?

peekay331
08-24-2011, 9:54 AM
are they making legal u-turns? If not, they should be popped. If so, who cares?

Spanky8601
08-24-2011, 11:03 AM
If they are not in violation of one of these laws they are OK.

22100.5. No driver shall make a U-turn at an intersection
controlled by official traffic signals except as provided in Section
21451, and then only from the far lefthand lane that is lawfully
available to traffic moving in the direction of travel from which the
turn is commenced. No driver shall make a U-turn at an intersection
controlled by official traffic control devices except from the far
lefthand lane that is lawfully available to traffic moving in the
direction of travel from which the turn is commenced.



22101. (a) The Department of Transportation or local authorities in
respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, may cause
official traffic control devices to be placed or erected within or
adjacent to intersections to regulate or prohibit turning movements
at such intersections.
(b) When turning movements are required at an intersection notice
of such requirement shall be given by erection of a sign, unless an
additional clearly marked traffic lane is provided for the approach
to the turning movement, in which event notice as applicable to such
additional traffic lane shall be given by any official traffic
control device.
(c) When right- or left-hand turns are prohibited at an
intersection notice of such prohibition shall be given by erection of
a sign.
(d) When official traffic control devices are placed as required
in subdivisions (b) or (c), it shall be unlawful for any driver of a
vehicle to disobey the directions of such official traffic control
devices.



22102. No person in a business district shall make a U-turn, except
at an intersection, or on a divided highway where an opening has
been provided in accordance with Section 21651. This turning movement
shall be made as close as practicable to the extreme left-hand edge
of the lanes moving in the driver's direction of travel immediately
prior to the initiation of the turning movement, when more than one
lane in the direction of travel is present.



22103. No person in a residence district shall make a U-turn when
any other vehicle is approaching from either direction within 200
feet, except at an intersection when the approaching vehicle is
controlled by an official traffic control device.




22104. No person shall make a U-turn in front of the driveway
entrance or approaches to a fire station. No person shall use the
driveway entrance or approaches to a fire station for the purpose of
turning a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction.




22105. No person shall make a U-turn upon any highway where the
driver of such vehicle does not have an unobstructed view for 200
feet in both directions along the highway and of any traffic thereon.


Additionally, if there is a two way left turn lane the U turn must be started from within that lane. 21460.5 VC as I recall.

FourLoko
08-24-2011, 1:17 PM
As stated, unless the U-Turn is illegal in that area they should be legit.

Pretty sure there is a code about avoiding a traffic signal but I think that has to do with the old, cut through the gas station on the corner trick.

RazzB7
08-24-2011, 1:38 PM
Maybe this satellite image will help. I don't think I've explained it adequately. Southbound traffic is what I'm referring to...
1. Right turn on red
2. Immediate "U-turn" (crossing double/double yellow)
3. Right turn on red
4. Me, sitting in westbound left turn line, shaking my head

Overhead Satellite Image (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=70th+Street+%26+alvarado,+La+Mesa,+CA&hl=en&ll=32.773275,-117.046537&spn=0.00063,0.001023&sll=32.773247,-117.046658&sspn=0.00063,0.001023&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=21)

mej16489
08-24-2011, 2:58 PM
Maybe this satellite image will help. I don't think I've explained it adequately. Southbound traffic is what I'm referring to...
1. Right turn on red
2. Immediate "U-turn" (crossing double/double yellow)
3. Right turn on red
4. Me, sitting in westbound left turn line, shaking my head

Overhead Satellite Image (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=70th+Street+%26+alvarado,+La+Mesa,+CA&hl=en&ll=32.773275,-117.046537&spn=0.00063,0.001023&sll=32.773247,-117.046658&sspn=0.00063,0.001023&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=21)


Step 2: U-turn on the double/double is the illegal action....I think... I never do it personally and I never worked traffic...

Ron-Solo
08-24-2011, 3:03 PM
The crossing of the "double-double" yellow while making a u-turn would be a violation. Contact the agency that is responsible for traffic enforcement in that area. The traffic guys are always looking for a good "cherry patch" to work. :D

Notorious
08-24-2011, 11:54 PM
Yep, no crossing over the "island". When it's a double double yellow, you treat it as it were an actual concrete island that is raised up. If you can't jump the concrete island, you can't drive over the double double yellow... Now I feel like an In-N-Out burger....

retired
08-25-2011, 12:10 AM
Yep, no crossing over the "island". When it's a double double yellow, you treat it as it were an actual concrete island that is raised up. If you can't jump the concrete island, you can't drive over the double double yellow... Now I feel like an In-N-Out burger....

http://burgerjunkies.com/review/double-double-animal-style-cheeseburger-in-n-out-burger-elk-grove-ca/

Notorious
08-25-2011, 12:33 AM
Just had one last week, will have one again this week thanks to you!

Ron-Solo
08-25-2011, 12:37 AM
Mmmmmm.............. In-N-Out


Thread jack........sorry!

Notorious
08-25-2011, 6:07 AM
Thanks for the link. Now I know I can have my fries extra well done while having mustard grilled patties without the whole animal style thing.

FLIGHT762
08-25-2011, 7:59 AM
Pretty sure there is a code about avoiding a traffic signal but I think that has to do with the old, cut through the gas station on the corner trick.
Actually, there isn't. Some Cities use a City Ordinance for cutting through private property to avoid traffic signals. I recall a local agency having such an ordinance and citing for it. I heard the traffic Commissioner was dismissing those citations.

Step 2: U-turn on the double/double is the illegal action....I think... I never do it personally and I never worked traffic...

The crossing of the "double-double" yellow while making a u-turn would be a violation. Contact the agency that is responsible for traffic enforcement in that area. The traffic guys are always looking for a good "cherry patch" to work. :D

The CVC code:
Divided Highways
21651. (a) Whenever a highway has been divided into two or more roadways by means of intermittent barriers or by means of a dividing section of not less than two feet in width, either unpaved or delineated by curbs, double-parallel lines, or other markings on the roadway, it is unlawful to do either of the following:

(1) To drive any vehicle over, upon, or across the dividing section.

(2) To make any left, semicircular, or U-turn with the vehicle on the divided highway, except through an opening in the barrier designated and intended by public authorities for the use of vehicles or through a plainly marked opening in the dividing section.

(b) It is unlawful to drive any vehicle upon a highway, except to the right of an intermittent barrier or a dividing section which separates two or more opposing lanes of traffic. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (c), a violation of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.

(c) Any willful violation of subdivision (b) which results in injury to, or death of, a person shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison, or imprisonment in a county jail for a period of not more than six months.

Amended Ch. 765, Stats. 1988. Effective January 1, 1989.

As recommended, I'd call the local agency and see if a motor Officer could do some enforcement there provided people are U turning across the double doubles.

Tripper
08-25-2011, 8:23 AM
it looks like in front of dennys is the 'legal' spot for a u-turn, so long as you can see 200 feet
does that look about right

lear60man
08-25-2011, 11:27 AM
it looks like in front of dennys is the 'legal' spot for a u-turn, so long as you can see 200 feet
does that look about right

IIRC Wrong. You cant make a u turn in a business district. Dennys is a business. Residential only.

sw99
08-25-2011, 11:39 AM
IIRC Wrong. You cant make a u turn in a business district. Dennys is a business. Residential only.

Yep.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22102.htm

And if a recall a traffic-class from long, long ago, an apartment complex counts as commerical property (not residential). And from the photos, it looks like there is an apartment complex opposite the Denny's

BigDogatPlay
08-25-2011, 2:10 PM
Lots of good answers here. Bottom line, so long as they are stopping before the right turns, that's fine if there is no sign prohibiting right turn on red.

Any movement across a pair of unbroken double yellow lines is a violation of VC 21651a, the U-turn specifically would be 21651a(2). That's what I'd be citing for.

A couple of motors could sit on the shoulder by the right turn pocket and have an absolute field day.

Tripper
08-25-2011, 2:20 PM
seems that the opening at dennys, is the requisite opening provided, is it not


22102. No person in a business district shall make a U-turn, except
at an intersection, or on a divided highway where an opening has
been provided in accordance with Section 21651. This turning movement
shall be made as close as practicable to the extreme left-hand edge
of the lanes moving in the driver's direction of travel immediately
prior to the initiation of the turning movement, when more than one
lane in the direction of travel is present.

Tripper
08-25-2011, 2:24 PM
by the way, i used the road view (the little man thing), to find the opening at dennys, not sure if it was viewable from the top view or not,
although, I'm guessing the OP is referring to those u-turns being much quicker than up the street that far, sounds more like barely making a right then immediately turning back around. Up by dennys doesnt even appear to be much room for a u anyway. not in my truck, would have to be a 3-point

NytWolf
08-25-2011, 2:36 PM
Pretty sure there is a code about avoiding a traffic signal but I think that has to do with the old, cut through the gas station on the corner trick.

I haven't seen a code, but from what I recall, the gas station has to file a complaint before the action is citable.