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Dlevi03
08-23-2011, 11:13 PM
After searching the posts on this subject I am still confused. I understand that one can carry at their business but if I am employed to or my business is managing a swap meet and other properties that are open to the public can I only carry in my office in the building or any place inside of the building? In other words, when I walk around the building to do my business am I limited? I guess what I am getting at is if there is a definition of "at your business."

Thanks and all the information I am reading here so far is very helpful.

Connor P Price
08-23-2011, 11:16 PM
You can carry inside of a building that your business owns or leases. Setting up shop at a swap meet temporarily is not likely to cut it, unless your business owns the building.

ETA: A more clear explanation of the details of the particular circumstance would make it easier to give a clear answer as to whether its ok. It's certainly sounding like you wouldn't be able to carry at all though.

Dlevi03
08-23-2011, 11:45 PM
I manage the whole building with about 120 vendors and the building is owned by management. I spend most of my time in the office but I do need to walk the property to work or respond to problems. In other words, I need to visit vendors watch my employees and do everything else a property manager does. The problem is that to the vendors and customers the hallways are common public area but to me they are part of the business I take care of. I have an outside security company with guards but some things are outside their scope of employment.

Of course we are not in a great area and I typically do not go more than 3-5 days without the police being at the property. Two days ago they closed off the entrances and had a helicopter hovering over the building for 30 min because a "suspect" ran into the swap meet and was hiding. With gold prices going up our jewelry stores have had 4 smash and grabs in the last year and every time the crooks are getting a bit more violent.

I would assume that for me inside of the building would be my business but I am not sure.

Connor P Price
08-24-2011, 12:26 AM
With permission from the owners of the building, apparently your management, you can generally carry. Much like gun store employees can almost always be seen carrying while at work. I'm not certain whether there is a requirement as far as whether it be open or concealed, but you'll certainly need permission.

Librarian
08-24-2011, 9:35 AM
I manage the whole building with about 120 vendors and the building is owned by management. I spend most of my time in the office but I do need to walk the property to work or respond to problems. In other words, I need to visit vendors watch my employees and do everything else a property manager does. The problem is that to the vendors and customers the hallways are common public area but to me they are part of the business I take care of.

That description somewhat matches People v Overturf; case law suggests you may not carry in the areas that "are common public area but to me they are part of the business" unless you have LTC.

See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry

Glock22Fan
08-24-2011, 10:02 AM
Seems to me that, depending where you live, a LTC (CCW) would be the safest way to go. Having said that, I presume that "inside the building" means that there are doors that can be locked, shutting the public off at some time of the day or night. Thus, not an Overturf situation at all, and more like just about any business's reception area, where public can walk in between, say, 9 - 5.00.

There then remains the problem as to whether an employee (as opposed to an owner) can carry concealed or not - my copy of "stay out of jail" says not without a permit, and that's what we understand some casino employees have been told by their union appointed counsel.

IANAL, and it seems that there is inadequate case law. Any chance you could get a permit?

Dlevi03
08-24-2011, 12:00 PM
I will complicate it even more, as a real property broker I am an independent contractor not an employee. For the most part the owner of the building is not allowed to tell me how to get the job done they just tell me what the job is. But the building does have doors locks ect.
A few weeks ago I had a guy come to the office and force his way in threatening to “finish me” because I kicked his wife out of the building for stealing. It seems like the area is getting worse every day and regardless I will probably carry in my office since I have a separate business license to manage property in the city.
I appreciate all the help I will probably talk to my lawyer it just seems like these gray areas cause more problems for everyone and might just get someone hurt someday. Every situation is unique it few places of business neatly fit into the perscribed requierments, frustrating.

Dlevi03
08-24-2011, 12:09 PM
That description somewhat matches People v Overturf; case law suggests you may not carry in the areas that "are common public area but to me they are part of the business" unless you have LTC.

See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Unlicensed_Concealed_Carry

Lots of info it answers some of my questions. Thanks!

dantodd
08-24-2011, 12:10 PM
It would probably be better to talk to a gun lawyer rather than your "regular" attorney. You might save some money dealing with an attorney who is already very familiar with the laws involved.