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joeypounds
08-22-2011, 2:51 PM
I will leave out some details on purpose for legal reasons.

I was at a recent gun show and in an area where private parties tend to hang out to sell firearms. There was an individual selling a long gun that was not a C&R. This individual stated if you gave him his asking price he would let you leave with it then and there. I was a little suspicious and even nervous but asked him how he could or even want to do that. He stated that the state only keeps track of handgun purchases so he had no problem letting you take it without a proper transfer.

All legalities aside as I know that much? Is this correct?

As to whether I made the purchase or not? Hell no! It was even something of interest to me, but the ATF even had a booth there.

Schrodinger's Cat
08-22-2011, 2:54 PM
All legalities aside as I know that much? Is this correct?

I don't exactly understand what you are asking here.

joeypounds
08-22-2011, 2:58 PM
Basically if you do actually sell a long gun in such a way the gun and serial number are not linked to you as the State/Feds do not keep that info.

They just know you purchased a "long gun" at the time you DROS'd it.

Librarian
08-22-2011, 2:58 PM
He's asking if it's legal to transfer a long gun without an FFL.

He said the gun was not C&R; apparently the seller in the story believes that since DROS doesn't report the serial/make/model, the FFL is not needed.

Wrong. Unless the gun is a long gun 50+ years old, in-CA transfer outside lineal family DOES require the FFL, and has required it since 1991.

The likelihood of being apprehended is not relevant.

Tango-Alpha
08-22-2011, 3:11 PM
ATF agents work the gun shows (undercover) posing as consumers with guns for sale. I'd bet you dollars to donuts you were talking to an ATF agent without even knowing it.

Connor P Price
08-22-2011, 3:16 PM
I will leave out some details on purpose for legal reasons.

I was at a recent gun show and in an area where private parties tend to hang out to sell firearms. There was an individual selling a long gun that was not a C&R. This individual stated if you gave him his asking price he would let you leave with it then and there. I was a little suspicious and even nervous but asked him how he could or even want to do that. He stated that the state only keeps track of handgun purchases so he had no problem letting you take it without a proper transfer.

All legalities aside as I know that much? Is this correct?

As to whether I made the purchase or not? Hell no! It was even something of interest to me, but the ATF even had a booth there.

The bolded portion seems to suggest that he knew that it was illegal but was ok with it because the lack of records for long gun sales leads him to believe he is unlikely to be caught. That may be true, but its still stupid.

paul0660
08-22-2011, 3:16 PM
ATF agents work the gun shows (undercover) posing as consumers with guns for sale. I'd bet you dollars to donuts you were talking to an ATF agent without even knowing it.

I don't know what a consumer with guns for sale is.

The undercover guy was selling, not buying. The law says you cannot sell, loan, or transfer a firearm without a FFL. A dumb buyer might walk and evade a conviction for conspiracy, maybe not.

I have encountered many people at California gun shows selling firarms illegally. Never been tempted for the $35 it would save.

socalocalypse
08-22-2011, 3:32 PM
Fwiw the atf had an informant friend of randy weaver offer him $700 in 1995 for two shotguns if he'd cut the barrrls short. I paid $200 for my 870 express in '91, so to me it seems they were really looking to entice him to break the law(he was an idiot to do it) The rest is history.

This agency needs to be eliminated. They just don't have anything better to do than try to set up stings on people.

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

socalocalypse
08-22-2011, 3:40 PM
Thats scary as hell to think it could have easily been an agent. One ill considered snap decision and you could ruin your life.

I couldn't be more against acquiring firearms illegally, but the atf goes way too far.

joeypounds
08-22-2011, 3:43 PM
I for sure thought about the whole undercover ATF thing. Is what he said true though? The DROS process for rifles does not include make, model, SN?

EBR Works
08-22-2011, 3:48 PM
I for sure thought about the whole undercover ATF thing. Is what he said true though? The DROS process for rifles does not include make, model, SN?

The California DROS process includes no specific information pertaining to long guns. The Federal form 4473 does require listing make, model, serial number & caliber of all transactions.
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InGrAM
08-22-2011, 4:13 PM
One more reason on the long list to never willingly move to CA ;) I was so envious when one of my friends in OK walked into a gun show showed an ID and walked out with 3 handguns.....

Catechol
08-22-2011, 4:28 PM
Wow, you people are paranoid. Am I the only one here that realizes that the ATF doesn't have the authority to enforce a California law? No federal law would have been violated by this transaction. Hello?

boxbro
08-22-2011, 4:36 PM
Wow, you people are paranoid. Am I the only one here that realizes that the ATF doesn't have the authority to enforce a California law? No federal law would have been violated by this transaction. Hello?

I was thinking the same thing.

paul0660
08-22-2011, 4:45 PM
One more reason on the long list to never willingly move to CA ;) I was so envious when one of my friends in OK walked into a gun show showed an ID and walked out with 3 handguns.....

But he was still in Oklahoma. North Texas. South Kansas. The place most Californians came from at one time. For a reason.

I know a guy who moved from Monterey to Nye county, Nv for one reason.............he couldn't wait. Been to Nye county?

Librarian
08-22-2011, 4:46 PM
For 'ATF' in the preceding posts, please substitute 'CA-DOJ'. They can and will enforce CA law.

EBR Works
08-22-2011, 4:49 PM
Am I the only one here that realizes that the ATF doesn't have the authority to enforce a California law?

If California laws are violated in the process of an ATF sting, you can count on being busted for it. ATF will simply cooperate with local LE.
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paul0660
08-22-2011, 4:49 PM
For 'ATF' in the preceding posts, please substitute 'CA-DOJ'. They can and will enforce CA law.

yes. Should have been pointed out earlier, but we were not up on our alphabet soup.

joeypounds
08-22-2011, 4:56 PM
CA DOJ at least regarding the enforcement of various gun laws is running on a shoestring as of late from what I have heard through a reliable source. The people they do have working for them do not even understand the "laws" they are to enforce.

Burbur
08-22-2011, 4:58 PM
But just like Forest Rangers, just because it isn't in their jurisdiction doesn't stop them from trying.

Is there any avenue to purchase the gun in this situation and take it directly to an FFL? There should be, that seems like a 'common sense gun law' to me.

dantodd
08-22-2011, 5:20 PM
To answer the other part of your question yes, the ATf and DOJ can still track a long gun. It just takes longer and is a manual process. They contact the mfg. Who tells them to whom they sold the gun that distributor tells them which FFL got the gun and the FFL tells them who the gun was sold to. So, if the seller wasn't part of a sting they could get jammed up if the gun is recovered at a crime scene and they didn't legally transfer it.