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View Full Version : Hunter Education FUD @ Coyote Valley Sporting Clays


Flopper
08-20-2011, 4:48 PM
In the first day of class for CA Hunter's Education, much FUD was spewed.

1. "Loaded firearm means weapon and ammo within close proximity." To avoid, instructor said to lock up firearm in one container and put ammo in another container. As a bonus he said a magazine in your pocket is considered carrying a concealed loaded firearm.

2. "Civilians not allowed to own body armor." He even told a "story" about how he had to bail his brother in law out of jail for owning BA. I wanted very badly to ask him if his BIL was a felon or in the act of committing a felony when he was arrested, but I bit my tongue very hard and did not.

3. "Carrying a pistol while fishing with a fishing license requires a HSC." Wrong on so many levels, I don't know where to begin, but this is the one piece of FUD a bunch of people actually called him on for various reasons.

Honorary mention: heavily implied that mere possession and use of AP rifle ammo was illegal (not just for hunting, but for target shooting).


Does this happen at every class? Is there anything we can do about this?

ETA-to be fair, this was only one out of four instructors. Two of the others were very good, but the fourth one was definitely in over her head; I can give her a slight pass because I assume she seemed to be new at teaching hunter's ed.

Edit #2-Don't let this keep you from going to CVSC for its sporting clays course, because its a very nice club and course.

axel4488
08-20-2011, 4:53 PM
should go back and have the PC codes with you. Then in front of the whole class show him how much of a retard he is.

Peachdog
08-20-2011, 4:58 PM
Don't let the FUD spread. Bring proof and make sure everyone knows the truth. Grind that in hard so they feel bad enough to think twice before pretending to be a subject matter expert.

Lostsheep
08-20-2011, 5:00 PM
I see that you are in San Jose, please tell us where you went so that others in the area can avoid them.

rkt88edmo
08-20-2011, 5:07 PM
I'll wait to hear from an expert, but I thought ammo/mags had to be open carried while UOC in order to avoid a concealment charge.

Flopper
08-20-2011, 5:17 PM
I'll wait to hear from an expert, but I thought ammo/mags had to be open carried while UOC in order to avoid a concealment charge.

That's a mistake on my part in the initial post.

I don't know how I screwed that up but I meant to type "loaded magazine in your pocket is considered carrying a concealed loaded firearm."

Librarian
08-20-2011, 5:27 PM
The whole tao of loaded is on the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

Tripper
08-20-2011, 5:35 PM
Yep 2-days
Don't bother going with pc books
I'll talk to them about it
Chuck runs a good program that I highly recommend for kids, I think kids get alot out of the 2- days in a row course

I don't know the other instructors there, but I have a good idea of who they might be. That being said, I'll be talking to at least chuck about it

FYI
There are classes in Salinas and Watsonville

Flopper
08-20-2011, 5:47 PM
The whole tao of loaded is on the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

You just reminded me--he talked about this one also:

The Fish and Game Code has a different definition:
2006. It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or along
or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way open to
the public.
A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell
in the firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells
are in the magazine.

He said that the F & G Code was amended last year to mirror the PC, ie, that loaded for F & G purposes means "firearm and ammo within close proximity."

The hits keep on comin'. . .

Librarian
08-20-2011, 5:53 PM
You just reminded me--he talked about this one also:



He said that the F & G Code was amended last year to mirror the PC, ie, that loaded for F & G purposes means "firearm and ammo within close proximity."

The hits keep on comin'. . .

Ah. No, that's inaccurate: F&G 2006 (http://law.onecle.com/california/fish/2006.html) is the same now as it was when I wrote the article.

Offering correct info off-line, rather than confront in the class, is likely to have a better effect.

Flopper
08-20-2011, 6:06 PM
I'm not saying anything in class; I'm keeping my mouth shut and getting my certificate.

Tripper is a DFG instructor also and has offered to re-educate the ill informed instructor.

Kharn
08-20-2011, 6:18 PM
Being silent and getting the paper is definitely the way to go in this situation, address your concerns with the instructors after the class has concluded.

Tripper
08-20-2011, 6:21 PM
If all else fails
My next 4-hour course us next Saturday the 27

Tripper
08-20-2011, 6:28 PM
I do routinely recommend that class for kids as he has a better instructor to student ratio, which allows fir an instructor to help younger kids that may have a hard time reading or understanding the test
My instructor/student ratio is me/however many is there, which I cap at 20, so that makes it where I can't really give special accommodation like others can

gunsmith
08-20-2011, 6:45 PM
Embarrassing the instructor shouldn't be the goal, education should be the goal.
Its difficult to understand CA law WRT firearms because it is written by folks with an agenda who do not understand either law or firearms.

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 6:48 PM
Embarrassing the instructor shouldn't be the goal, education should be the goal.
Its difficult to understand CA law WRT firearms because it is written by folks with an agenda who do not understand either law or firearms.

Excellent point.

Tripper
08-20-2011, 7:12 PM
i would like to ask if there are any 'well informed' Attorneys, or LEO's, or representatives of such, that would be willing to speak at a Hunter Education Instructor Conference, Speaking to the effect of such laws, educating the educators, I might be able to coordinate such a thing if someone were to offer.
There are like 3 or maybe 4 Primary Conferences per year, 1 in each region, the North Coast Region (Central Region is inland), usually the beginning of April. A person could speak at 1 or all of them if they chose to do so.
the president of California Outdoor Heritage Alliance, is usually there, as he is a big supporter of Hunter Education, 2 years ago was his year to speak. the conferences are intended to educate the instructors, I think a better understanding of Firearms laws would be an applicable subject. Please let me know if you are interested.
Chuck, over in Gilroy, I think is the Pres for Pacific Coast Hunter Education Association, which is one of our Non-profit support organizations.
of course, I would be happy to assist anyone interested in becoming an instructor, there are not enough of us.

franklinarmory
08-22-2011, 8:50 AM
My 9 year old son took the course with Chuck, and I attended. I do not recommend him! He makes the material much harder than it needs to be. There were high school aged kids that couldn't pass the test.

I asked if I might be allowed to read the questions to my son, and I was denied. My son failed. Honestly, what sense does it make to be hard nosed about the book work, when my son is going to follow my direction when hunting? THAT's where hunter education takes place!

During class, he went over all the FUD about loaded shotguns place on tailgates of parked vehicles are 12031PC and 2006F&G violations. The problem was that Chuck was so dogmatic about everything, that it was obvious one could not change his mind no matter how hard you tried.

BTW, I took my kid to another class a month later and he got an 86% with me reading the questions to him and without any coaching.