PDA

View Full Version : Open Carry Impossible In San Francisco:


kwansao
08-20-2011, 3:49 PM
I live in a 'safe zone'... :(

My only recourse would be to carry concealed in a locked container ONLY on my way to a shooting range/gun store, etc. or to keep it in a vehicle in a locked container.


http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=2337

monk
08-20-2011, 3:52 PM
LOL damn man, you guys have a hell of a lot of schools. Sorry to hear. It's like a maze trying to get to a gun range.

kwansao
08-20-2011, 3:57 PM
i can go through the school zone if it's in a locked container or on my property.

"... does not apply to the possession of a
firearm under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or
place of business or
on private property,
if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession
of the firearm is otherwise lawful.

(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a
locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.

This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed on the
person, in accordance with state law."

InGrAM
08-20-2011, 4:21 PM
Move. SF is a horrid place, full of garbage and people that love the smell of their own ***. No offense or anything, I just cannot stand the bay area as a hole. Anyone that hates idiotic drivers and people that can't keep to themselves should agree lol. I kid. But seriously I feel for you. The bay area makes sac county look like a place of fine society.

repubconserv
08-20-2011, 4:24 PM
No offense or anything, I just cannot stand the bay area as a hole.

I see what you did there

gunsmith
08-20-2011, 6:48 PM
people have OC'd in SF, Baker beach for instance. We had an inneresting thread about an undercover cop who got interviewed and claimed to the press that "guns scared him" or something.

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 7:24 PM
I live in a 'safe zone'... :(

My only recourse would be to carry concealed in a locked container ONLY on my way to a shooting range/gun store, etc. or to keep it in a vehicle in a locked container.


http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=2337

Hang in there bud...
No city is immune from this stupid federal law;

http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones.htm

Hopefully, with the successes in McDonald and Heller, this type of garbage will be put where it belongs...in the trash can.

kwansao
08-20-2011, 7:25 PM
Yes but I would have to handle the weapon every 2 blocks to put it back in the locked box, which is more manipulation of the firearm than I would prefer to do while in public.

My only options are to request a letter exempting me from the school district superintendant (fat chance) or to get a ccw (not likely) or, alternatively, to join the police force and retire just for the ccw privileges (ha ha).

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 7:33 PM
My only options are to...join the police force and retire just for the ccw privileges (ha ha).

You are probably overqualified for the job....:D

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local&id=6183720


Too bad Dirty Harry was make believe....:(

taperxz
08-20-2011, 7:45 PM
Move. SF is a horrid place, full of garbage and people that love the smell of their own ***. No offense or anything, I just cannot stand the bay area as a hole. Anyone that hates idiotic drivers and people that can't keep to themselves should agree lol. I kid. But seriously I feel for you. The bay area makes sac county look like a place of fine society.

You live in Sac and are bashing San Francisco and the bay area??? I never knew Sac was a world class destination and rated as one of the top 5 desired cities to visit in the world!

I guess your famous Italian restaurant is..... Papa Johns?.

Aside from it being a personal opinion, it really is an ignorant statement.

a1c
08-20-2011, 7:46 PM
SF has the second highest density in the country in terms of population (NYC is #1). So predictably, there are school zones everywhere. This should not be a surprise. It has nothing to do with SF being an anti-gun city, and everything to do with GFSZ and population density.

As for the SF bashers - SF is a great city. Yes, it's full of hippie types, anti-gun liberals, and so on. It's also full of awesome restaurants of all kinds, has beautiful sights, great history, and you can let your freak flag fly and no one cares how you dress or what color your hair is. Don't like it? Don't go there.

SPaikmos
08-20-2011, 7:54 PM
That map looks like it uses a single point for the school, and draws a 1000' radius circle. In reality, the GFSZ extends 1000' from the edge of the property. I bet that's enough to squeeze out most of the non-safe zones listed on the map!

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 8:18 PM
SF has the second highest density in the country in terms of population (NYC is #1). So predictably, there are school zones everywhere. This should not be a surprise. It has nothing to do with SF being an anti-gun city, and everything to do with GFSZ and population density.




So since it has nothing to do with SF being an anti-gun city, the fact that this resident is hampered from enjoying the rights of an American citizen to bear arms is inconsequential, and only has to do with population density?

The fact of the matter is, this forum user should be issued a ccw....no on second thought, he shouldn't have to ask for a permission slip, the constitution should serve as his "permit".

Wernher von Browning
08-20-2011, 8:28 PM
LOL damn man, you guys have a hell of a lot of schools.

Judging by that industry's product, it doesn't seem to do much good, does it?

:)

Fjold
08-20-2011, 8:55 PM
That"s why I carry concealed when I go there.

Librarian
08-20-2011, 9:05 PM
That map looks like it uses a single point for the school, and draws a 1000' radius circle. In reality, the GFSZ extends 1000' from the edge of the property. I bet that's enough to squeeze out most of the non-safe zones listed on the map!

The SF Planning map is actually pretty good; expand it/magnifiy it, and you can see the figures are not simple circles. But there really are a lot of schools. Look at 22nd and Noe to see one place where it's clear they did better than just circles - there's a north/south straight boundary there.

wildhawker
08-20-2011, 9:12 PM
The SF Planning map is actually pretty good; expand it/magnifiy it, and you can see the figures are not simple circles. But there really are a lot of schools. Look at 22nd and Noe to see one place where it's clear they did better than just circles - there's a north/south straight boundary there.

Which also means that anyone who violates 626.9 in the city is going to face conviction barring a miracle.

kwansao
08-20-2011, 9:50 PM
Or I could legally carry concealed if purchased property every half a mile or so and hopped around from my residence to place of business and property I own every few blocks. Of course I would still have to carry it in a locked box while i was in a school 'zone'..

resident-shooter
08-20-2011, 9:50 PM
SF is a cool place, just a lot of schools.

kwansao
08-20-2011, 9:55 PM
yeah, education sucks.

Obviously a Plant
08-20-2011, 10:25 PM
The even distribution of schools also prohibits sex-offenders from ever living in SF, a policy other cities would like to emulate, I'm sure...

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 10:30 PM
The even distribution of schools also prohibits sex-offenders from ever living in SF, a policy other cities would like to emulate, I'm sure...

Dude...you're obviously a plant...common sense sex offender registration would never allow that to happen!










:D

kwansao
08-20-2011, 11:05 PM
it doesn't stop them from living here, i'm literally surrounded by violent perverts

Norcal Industries
08-20-2011, 11:31 PM
You live in Sac and are bashing San Francisco and the bay area??? I never knew Sac was a world class destination and rated as one of the top 5 desired cities to visit in the world!

I guess your famous Italian restaurant is..... Papa Johns?.

Aside from it being a personal opinion, it really is an ignorant statement.

http://www.askmen.com/specials/2011_top_29/ actually ranked 17, not top 5.

Trailboss60
08-20-2011, 11:38 PM
http://www.askmen.com/specials/2011_top_29/ actually ranked 17, not top 5.


hey...SF rated 5th!

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0824/Top-5-worst-US-cities-for-traffic/San-Francisco-Calif

stix213
08-21-2011, 4:39 AM
Interesting.... by that map the entire area near where I work (not far from the bay bridge) is free of school zones.

donw
08-21-2011, 8:18 AM
So since it has nothing to do with SF being an anti-gun city, the fact that this resident is hampered from enjoying the rights of an American citizen to bear arms is inconsequential, and only has to do with population density?

The fact of the matter is, this forum user should be issued a ccw....no on second thought, he shouldn't have to ask for a permission slip, the constitution should serve as his "permit".

this has always bothered me...why should a law abiding citizens have to get a license, permit, or pay a fee to exercise what the Constitution says is ours naturally?

states,cities, counties and municipalities trample our rights and say "We're exercising reasonable controls"

California had to be forced, by the SCOTUS to recognize the federal constitution's second amendment as a right that's extended to ALL citizens of the U.S.; they're angry and bitter about it.

kwansao
08-21-2011, 9:32 AM
Looks like the issue has been raised and this law is not going to change any time soon.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/119607989.html

CSACANNONEER
08-21-2011, 9:40 AM
The City has sure change since the days when my grandpa would grab his .410 and hunt quail in the city parks. Now, if we could just get everyone who wasn't born within 50 miles of The City to stop claimining that they are from there, the world would be a better place.

Gray Peterson
08-21-2011, 9:45 AM
this has always bothered me...why should a law abiding citizens have to get a license, permit, or pay a fee to exercise what the Constitution says is ours naturally?

states,cities, counties and municipalities trample our rights and say "We're exercising reasonable controls"

California had to be forced, by the SCOTUS to recognize the federal constitution's second amendment as a right that's extended to ALL citizens of the U.S.; they're angry and bitter about it.

A few things.

1) PC626.9 has existed only for 15 years, and the 2nd amendment only had effectively applied to California since June 28th, 2010.

2) The chances of the SCOTUS ruling in our favor in re not allowing any fees, licenses, or permits to exercise a right is nil at this time, at least until "constitutional carry" is law in 35 states.

3) California's Legislature is refusing to repeal laws. They could have done much worse, such as do what Alabama and Virginia did in regards to the desegregation orders, passing laws to frustrate the federal courts. That hasn't happened.

4) Until 2, happens, if you look at Government Code 53071, be glad you will have a license to carry.

Kid Stanislaus
08-21-2011, 10:03 AM
I live in a 'safe zone'... :(
My only recourse would be to carry concealed in a locked container ONLY on my way to a shooting range/gun store, etc. or to keep it in a vehicle in a locked container. http://www.sf-planning.org/index.aspx?page=2337

This topic has been discussed ad naseum. :rolleyes:

gunsmith
08-21-2011, 10:48 AM
Looks like the issue has been raised and this law is not going to change any time soon.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/119607989.html
bah, CA will be shall issue ( in two weeks) thus negating negative nellies

kwansao
08-21-2011, 12:23 PM
This topic has been discussed ad naseum. :rolleyes:

Perhaps, but not by me.

mugiwara
08-21-2011, 12:36 PM
it doesn't stop them from living here, i'm literally surrounded by violent perverts

lololol.

CalBear
08-21-2011, 1:24 PM
The even distribution of schools also prohibits sex-offenders from ever living in SF, a policy other cities would like to emulate, I'm sure...
Proposition 83 prohibits sex offenders from living within 2000 feet of a school or any place where children gather, including parks. So double the radius of the circles, and add a bunch more. Indeed, with enforcement, it would be effectively impossible for a sex offender to live in an urban area. After the passage of prop 83, the number of homeless sex offenders shot up by something like 2400%. The instability of being homeless makes these people even more likely to become repeat offenders and to commit other crimes, and they're harder to track without a home. Nice try by CA voters, but yet another proposition system failure.

Trailboss60
08-21-2011, 5:18 PM
Looks like the issue has been raised and this law is not going to change any time soon.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/119607989.html




But U.S. District Judge Richard Seeborg last monthgranted the superintendent's motion for judgment on the pleadings. Seeborg found that despite language supporting gun rights in two major U.S. Supreme Court cases, both opinions made clear that they were not undoing all gun restrictions.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_G._Seeborg
On August 7, 2009, President Barack Obama nominated Seeborg to be a United States district judge on the United States District Court for the Northern District of California


Elections have consequences.

InGrAM
08-21-2011, 8:00 PM
You live in Sac and are bashing San Francisco and the bay area??? I never knew Sac was a world class destination and rated as one of the top 5 desired cities to visit in the world!

I guess your famous Italian restaurant is..... Papa Johns?.

Aside from it being a personal opinion, it really is an ignorant statement.

Lol I can see that I got your panties in a bunch with that comment ;) And I never said that I live in sac, I said "sac county". You might try reading posts before you respond.

a1c
08-21-2011, 8:03 PM
So since it has nothing to do with SF being an anti-gun city, the fact that this resident is hampered from enjoying the rights of an American citizen to bear arms is inconsequential, and only has to do with population density?

The fact of the matter is, this forum user should be issued a ccw....no on second thought, he shouldn't have to ask for a permission slip, the constitution should serve as his "permit".

I am not talking about license to carry permits here. He's talking about open carry. Fact is, you can't open carry anywhere in California within 1000 feet of a school. In SF, that means most of the City. The politics are of the city are irrelevant - if Fresno had the same population density than SF, he would be facing the same problem there.

CalBear
08-21-2011, 8:06 PM
I am not talking about license to carry permits here. He's talking about open carry. Fact is, you can't open carry anywhere in California within 1000 feet of a school. In SF, that means most of the City. The politics are of the city are irrelevant - if Fresno had the same population density than SF, he would be facing the same problem there.
Yep, that is a valid point. GFSZs are something that are a problem anywhere, not just SF. Density is the main issue. Even if you were a LTC holder, and were exempt from 626.9 and 12031, I suspect it would still be an issue, as I could see a sheriff revoking a LTC-holder's permit over OCing in a school zone.

Tango-Alpha
08-21-2011, 8:09 PM
Oh? Really? I thought everybody openly carried their, eh...guns in San Francisco. :shock::26:

Trailboss60
08-21-2011, 9:50 PM
I am not talking about license to carry permits here. He's talking about open carry. Fact is, you can't open carry anywhere in California within 1000 feet of a school. In SF, that means most of the City. The politics are of the city are irrelevant - if Fresno had the same population density than SF, he would be facing the same problem there.

And the point that I was making is that since the anti-gun policies pretty much guarantee that a resident will not receive a permit, the only option to carry is openly, which of course is illegal within the 1000 ft radius...thereby stripping him of any possibility of legally carrying.

It's pretty sad that a permit holder from Lake county can carry in SF, but a SF resident that the local politician is accountable to, cannot be trusted to carry.

CalNRA
08-21-2011, 9:57 PM
You live in Sac and are bashing San Francisco and the bay area??? I never knew Sac was a world class destination and rated as one of the top 5 desired cities to visit in the world!

I guess your famous Italian restaurant is..... Papa Johns?.

Aside from it being a personal opinion, it really is an ignorant statement.



As for the SF bashers - SF is a great city. Yes, it's full of hippie types, anti-gun liberals, and so on. It's also full of awesome restaurants of all kinds, has beautiful sights, great history, and you can let your freak flag fly and no one cares how you dress or what color your hair is. Don't like it? Don't go there.
who knew so many people in Lake County are such SF-philes?

As far as restaurants go, SF has some okay tourist traps but the good stuff are not in the city.

abechira
08-21-2011, 10:06 PM
Sucks to be you:chris:

Gray Peterson
08-21-2011, 10:38 PM
The fact of the matter is, this forum user should be issued a ccw....no on second thought, he shouldn't have to ask for a permission slip, the constitution should serve as his "permit".

Unfortunately for you, Arizona merely provided you the ability to carry without a CCW (don't ding me for not using LTC, this is AZ we're talking about) and could re institute the ban at any time, until we get 35 states or so with so called "constitutional carry" and we can run up a case to SCOTUS.

taperxz
08-21-2011, 10:41 PM
Lol I can see that I got your panties in a bunch with that comment ;) And I never said that I live in sac, I said "sac county". You might try reading posts before you respond.

LOL, nope! I just don't see how anyone from sac COUNTY could ever bash any world class city. Its simply ignorant.

Life doesn't entirely revolve around the 2A. CGF will fix that problem in SF though.

Remember, a good portion of the Brains behind CGF live on the San Fran peninsula and the bay area for that matter. There is a reason why some of the smartest and richest live here.;). Enjoy Papa Johns!

Gray Peterson
08-21-2011, 10:46 PM
LOL, nope! I just don't see how anyone from sac COUNTY could ever bash any world class city. Its simply ignorant.

Life doesn't entirely revolve around the 2A. CGF will fix that problem in SF though.

Remember, a good portion of the Brains behind CGF live on the San Fran peninsula and the bay area for that matter. There is a reason why some of the smartest and richest live here.;). Enjoy Papa Johns!

Dun Dun DUN!!

taperxz
08-21-2011, 10:46 PM
who knew so many people in Lake County are such SF-philes?

As far as restaurants go, SF has some okay tourist traps but the good stuff are not in the city.

I have multiple homes. :D. Born in the city raised slightly south on the peninsula.

Love House of Prime and many of the best places to eat in the city are Mom and Pops places.

Living in LC allows LTC in San Fran ;)

a1c
08-22-2011, 7:12 AM
who knew so many people in Lake County are such SF-philes?

As far as restaurants go, SF has some okay tourist traps but the good stuff are not in the city.

Plenty of world-class restaurants in SF. They're just not in the neighborhoods the tourists go to.

The Wingnut
08-22-2011, 7:25 AM
As for the SF bashers - SF is a great city. Yes, it's full of hippie types, anti-gun liberals, and so on. It's also full of awesome restaurants of all kinds, has beautiful sights, great history, and you can let your freak flag fly and no one cares how you dress or what color your hair is. Don't like it? Don't go there.


Right on all but the bold.

Yes, let your freak flag fly, but it had better be a freak flag and not just different for the sake of being different. In other words, don't get together with 10 of your closest friends, get dressed up in '30s vintage suits, ties, hats, overcoats and take a walk through North Beach between bars and restaurants. If it's not the SF brand of freak, it's not welcome.

I've never been insulted and heckled so frequently in such a short space of time.

paul0660
08-22-2011, 7:31 AM
who knew so many people in Lake County are such SF-philes?

As far as restaurants go, SF has some okay tourist traps but the good stuff are not in the city.

Most uninformed blanket statement I have read in a while. Frisco has somewhere between 4000 and 5000 restaurants. I eat there a lot, have some favorites, try new places frequently, and get some truly bad food very rarely. Yelp is your friend, if you can filter the obvious shills.

a1c
08-22-2011, 7:37 AM
Right on all but the bold.

Yes, let your freak flag fly, but it had better be a freak flag and not just different for the sake of being different. In other words, don't get together with 10 of your closest friends, get dressed up in '30s vintage suits, ties, hats, overcoats and take a walk through North Beach between bars and restaurants. If it's not the SF brand of freak, it's not welcome.

I've never been insulted and heckled so frequently in such a short space of time.

North Beach is full of out-of-towners and tourists. Most SFers only go there once in a while for a cocktail at the Comstock or a house capuccino at Tosca. It's mostly a tourist spot, and the huge majority of restaurants are mediocre.

SF doesn't have one brand of freak. It's got many. Maybe you guys should have hit Bourbon & Branch instead. There is a huge crowd of speakeasy/vintage types in the City.

kwansao
08-22-2011, 7:43 AM
Freak rights are more important than my rights.

dalriaden
08-22-2011, 7:55 AM
Whats the matter with papa johns? :confused:

Wherryj
08-22-2011, 8:31 AM
I see what you did there

In the typical case the word would be spelled "whole", but there is an exception for places like the PRK. I believe that the use of "hole" would be correct in this context.

ccmc
08-22-2011, 8:47 AM
http://www.askmen.com/specials/2011_top_29/ actually ranked 17, not top 5.

And Miami was number 3 while Las Vegas was number 10.

I like San Francisco, but to call it world class is hyperbole IMHO.

taperxz
08-22-2011, 9:33 AM
And Miami was number 3 while Las Vegas was number 10.

I like San Francisco, but to call it world class is hyperbole IMHO.

Try looking at a travel industry poll;)

Trailboss60
08-22-2011, 10:34 PM
I spent twenty five years in foodservice distribution in SF, after seeing many, many kitchens, I am convinced that the health inspectors don't take their jobs very seriously...many of the restaurants that are household names are real crapholes when it comes to cleanliness.
I have seen chefs smash scampering cockroaches on a top round, never batting an eye as they continued serving, Peking duck swarming with flies in the sunset district before being served, Cigarette ash dropping into the wok, nasal spray from a sneeze going onto beef Wellington.
Further down the peninsula, as in San Mateo county the standards were always much higher.
And parking is also possible in San Mateo without shelling out a wad of cash.

Trailboss60
08-22-2011, 10:53 PM
Unfortunately for you, Arizona merely provided you the ability to carry without a CCW (don't ding me for not using LTC, this is AZ we're talking about) and could re institute the ban at any time, until we get 35 states or so with so called "constitutional carry" and we can run up a case to SCOTUS.


I think most Arizonan's that actually carry, still get the permit, NICS bypass, reciprocity, carry into drinking establishments, and it is nice to tell a visitor that they can leave their permit at home if they choose.

Arizona's cc isn't based on the 2nd amendment, it is based on the state constitution that is less prone to mis-interpretation than the 2nd...

Article II, section 26 of the Arizona Constitution guarantees the following: "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the State shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men."

Regardless...the possibility of politicians banning CC in AZ is almost nil, I have spent time in the Ca legislature, and the Az. legislature watching the sausage being made...very different here.

ccmc
08-23-2011, 5:36 AM
Try looking at a travel industry poll;)

Most of the ones I've read say the top US travel destinations in terms of number of visitors are usually Orlando and Las Vegas. Of course that includes all visitors, so a good many of them are Americans. Maybe the definition of world class needs to be defined.

a1c
08-23-2011, 6:43 AM
Most of the ones I've read say the top US travel destinations in terms of number of visitors are usually Orlando and Las Vegas. Of course that includes all visitors, so a good many of them are Americans. Maybe the definition of world class needs to be defined.

When I use the expression "world class", I think quality, not quantity.

Librarian
08-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Since this is now a restaurant/culture thread, closed.