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novabrian
08-18-2011, 8:10 PM
I know a sawed off sg is illegal but what if I had one for home deffense? If I shot an intruder with it would charges be brought against me for an illegal weapon?

dantodd
08-18-2011, 8:12 PM
Almost certainly. It is a federal crime.There are MANY home defense guns with 18" barrels. I'd strongly suggest you get one.

yellowfin
08-18-2011, 8:21 PM
That's not actually the complete answer, really. Within VERY specific parameters, it isn't always illegal, but it USUALLY is. You CAN have a "sawed off" shotgun, but only under VERY specific circumstances, by going through a VERY specific procedure, and ONLY certain ones can you have if you live in CA--not doing it exactly right means you're breaking the law, and badly.

The actual crime of simply taking any shotgun and making the barrel less than 18" without any further steps and care taken would be not having paid a $200 tax on the short shotgun, oddly enough. Short barreled shotguns are covered under the National Firearms Act, so it's not so much that they're banned but rather that they're taxed and absurdly highly regulated and the tax has to paid a certain specific way to be legally compliant, with appropriate forms and procedure. Even stranger they won't actually let you try to pay the tax ahead of time in California, so that's the problem. What makes it so bad is that the penalty is in the same category as having an unauthorized/untaxed machine gun, so you're treated the same as if it was in fact a MG, which they REALLY, REALLY don't like you having unless they give you the OK first--and in CA the answer for MG's is obviously no. It's not so much that you're doing anything really all that wrong, they just like to REALLY REALLY REALLY hammer people for doing even the slightest thing not the way they want it done.

THE exception where you can legally have a short barrel shotgun in CA would be if the shotgun is curio and relic eligible (50+ years old and/or of significant historical value), in which case you could file the Form 4 or Form 1, pay the $200 tax, wait for the form to be approved, then you'd be legal.

All that being said, it's cheaper and a lot less pain in the neck to simply get a shotgun with a barrel 18" or longer. They're a lot less rough on the ears to shoot, too--a short barrel shotgun with any suitable defense load sounds like a tank cannon going off.

cdtx2001
08-18-2011, 8:57 PM
A $300 Mossberg 500 with a 18 1/2" barrel is a lot cheaper than a trip to jail and a lawyer.

FXR
08-18-2011, 9:15 PM
Just want to point out, some people have made side by sides with 18" barrels and stocks cut down to pistol grips, which might be identified as a "sawed off." These remain compliant as long as the minimum overall length of 26" (IIRC) is preserved. That said, it's more of a fun pirate range toy than a practical option for self defense. Run whatever you decide on through the shotgun flowchart.

repubconserv
08-18-2011, 9:24 PM
http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/370_Super-Shorty20.jpg

Serbu Super Shorty. It is an AOW and totally legal if you get a tax stamp for it, which from what I understand, isn't too hard. It is not a short barrel shotgun, it is a smoothbore pistol. But as a previous poster said, you have to do everything right, go through a lawyer.

ETA: if you do go about this "the easy way" (the illegal way) you WILL lose your gun rights and most likely serve a fair amount of time

bob7122
08-18-2011, 9:26 PM
I know a sawed off sg is illegal but what if I had one for home deffense? If I shot an intruder with it would charges be brought against me for an illegal weapon?

http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/370_Super-Shorty20.jpg

Serbu Super Shorty. It is an AOW and totally legal if you get a tax stamp for it, which from what I understand, isn't too hard. It is not a short barrel shotgun, it is a smoothbore pistol. But as a previous poster said, you have to do everything right, go through a lawyer.


OC Armory can help you with that. they sell many different shotguns that are "sawed off-type pistols" http://ocarmory.com/

go to the AOW's section http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/142.JPG http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/159.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/144.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/IMG_4466.JPG

repubconserv
08-18-2011, 9:32 PM
OC Armory can help you with that. they sell many different shotguns that are "sawed off-type pistols" http://ocarmory.com/

go to the AOW's section http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/142.JPG http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/159.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/144.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/IMG_4466.JPG

:thumbsup: you do have to be over 21 to buy one (thus my only partial knowledge of how NFA trusts and tax stamps work)

bob7122
08-18-2011, 9:34 PM
:thumbsup: you do have to be over 21 to buy one (thus my only partial knowledge of how NFA trusts and tax stamps work)

oh yea i forgot must be twenty one and u'll hav to join a trust

bwiese
08-18-2011, 9:53 PM
I know a sawed off sg is illegal but what if I had one for home deffense? If I shot an intruder with it would charges be brought against me for an illegal weapon?

"I have a dead hooker in my trunk but she tried to mug me, are you only gonna ticket me for the busted taillight?"

Geez.

Modimo
08-18-2011, 10:38 PM
"I have a dead hooker in my trunk but she tried to mug me, are you only gonna ticket me for the busted taillight?"

Geez.

Hahaha!!!

Wherryj
08-19-2011, 10:41 AM
"I have a dead hooker in my trunk but she tried to mug me, are you only gonna ticket me for the busted taillight?"

Geez.

I thought that the rule was "never say anything to an officer"? Why would you go and admit to a busted tail light?

;)

FXR
08-19-2011, 11:22 AM
http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/370_Super-Shorty20.jpg

Serbu Super Shorty. It is an AOW and totally legal if you get a tax stamp for it, which from what I understand, isn't too hard. It is not a short barrel shotgun, it is a smoothbore pistol. But as a previous poster said, you have to do everything right, go through a lawyer.

ETA: if you do go about this "the easy way" (the illegal way) you WILL lose your gun rights and most likely serve a fair amount of time

It is an AOW, it is not a smoothbore pistol.

repubconserv
08-19-2011, 11:23 AM
It is an AOW, it is not a smoothbore pistol.

same diff, smoothbore pistol is an AOW

please refer to this (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/AOWs_in_California)

An AOW or "any other weapon" is a federally defined term that creates a category for firearms that do not usually fall under any other definition.
Types of AOW's include:
Smooth Bore Pistols....
http://quarterbore.com/images/nfa-aow1.jpg
This is an AR pistol... it is also an AOW get it?

adamsreeftank
08-19-2011, 11:31 AM
OC Armory can help you with that. they sell many different shotguns that are "sawed off-type pistols" http://ocarmory.com/

go to the AOW's section http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/142.JPG http://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/159.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/144.JPGhttp://ocarmory.com/photogallery/photo00031774/IMG_4466.JPG

Wow. That's the first time I've seen an AOW side by side. I guess they found someone to manufacture a pistol grip SxS.

choprzrul
08-19-2011, 12:12 PM
http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/370_Super-Shorty20.jpg



Serious Question: Would the above pistol be legal in CA & nationally if it had 1 in 20 rifling in the barrel? Don't get hung up on the rate of twist, just the fact that it has ANY rifling would make it fall OUT of the smooth bore category.

How about something like the above, milled from an 80% receiver, and has some type of minimal rifling in the barrel?

.

Fate
08-19-2011, 12:20 PM
same diff, smoothbore pistol is an AOW

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/JPN_64/AR/AR556.jpg

This is an AR pistol... it is also an AOW get it?

FAIL. An AR pistol is NOT an AOW. Dude...shut up.

repubconserv
08-19-2011, 1:04 PM
FAIL. An AR pistol is NOT an AOW. Dude...shut up.

add a forward grip... dude.

CSACANNONEER
08-19-2011, 1:17 PM
add a forward grip

Yep, so, your original picture of an AR pistol is clearly not a picture of an AOW, right? I guess you're admitting your "fail", right?

repubconserv
08-19-2011, 1:19 PM
Yep, so, your original picture of an AR pistol is clearly not a picture of an AOW, right? I guess you're admitting your "fail", right?

yes I am and I fixed the pic

dantodd
08-19-2011, 7:23 PM
Serious Question: Would the above pistol be legal in CA & nationally if it had 1 in 20 rifling in the barrel? Don't get hung up on the rate of twist, just the fact that it has ANY rifling would make it fall OUT of the smooth bore category.

How about something like the above, milled from an 80% receiver, and has some type of minimal rifling in the barrel?

.

I am not an AOW or NFA expert at all but since your question hasn't been answered I'll give it a try.

If you make it a rifled bore I think you'd still have to take the foregrip off to make it a non-AOW. If you do make it a non AOW and it is just a pistol then you have an SBS in CA. CA law doesn't care if the bore is rifled for purposes of the SBS statute, only that it is designed to fire a shotgun shell.

OCArmory
08-19-2011, 7:34 PM
It would then be a destructive device as it is a pistol with a caliber larger than .50

Anchors
08-19-2011, 7:55 PM
It would then be a destructive device as it is a pistol with a caliber larger than .50

I was about to say that I see you're in HB and suggest you check out OC Armory for a short-barrel Any Other Weapon, but I see that has been covered.
:thumbsup:

77bawls
08-19-2011, 8:00 PM
The actual crime of simply taking any shotgun and making the barrel less than 18" without any further steps and care taken would be not having paid a $200 tax on the short shotgun, oddly enough. Short barreled shotguns are covered under the National Firearms Act, so it's not so much that they're banned but rather that they're taxed and absurdly highly regulated and the tax has to paid a certain specific way to be legally compliant, with appropriate forms and procedure. Even stranger they won't actually let you try to pay the tax ahead of time in California, so that's the problem. What makes it so bad is that the penalty is in the same category as having an unauthorized/untaxed machine gun, so you're treated the same as if it was in fact a MG, which they REALLY, REALLY don't like you having unless they give you the OK first--and in CA the answer for MG's is obviously no. It's not so much that you're doing anything really all that wrong, they just like to REALLY REALLY REALLY hammer people for doing even the slightest thing not the way they want it done.
Yup, then the ATF comes and kills your wife and kids.

choprzrul
08-22-2011, 12:17 PM
I am not an AOW or NFA expert at all but since your question hasn't been answered I'll give it a try.

If you make it a rifled bore I think you'd still have to take the foregrip off to make it a non-AOW. If you do make it a non AOW and it is just a pistol then you have an SBS in CA. CA law doesn't care if the bore is rifled for purposes of the SBS statute, only that it is designed to fire a shotgun shell.

^^This^^

and this:

It would then be a destructive device as it is a pistol with a caliber larger than .50

Scenario: I wish to mill a receiver at home to make my own pump action .45 Long Colt pistol. I mill the receiver and put the appropriate markings on it to include 'Pistol Designed for .45 Long Colt".

It is under the magical 1/2" restriction and it is NOT designed to accept a shotgun shell (ejection port could be opened up later to function with a shotgun shell, but its original design is for pistol cartridge only).

At the point of manufacture as a pistol, is there anything illegal about it if it uses a standard 870 fore end?

.