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View Full Version : City of Lompoc, CA, to go Shall Issue!!


FXR
08-18-2011, 3:52 PM
Just got back from Lock and load Gunsmithing in Lompoc, where they had the following flyer on the counter:

***ATTENTION ***
***CCW FOR LOMPOC RESIDENTS***
After recent discussions and new light to the newer program of "SHALL ISSUE" in the state of California, many police departments and elected officials have started to issue ccw permits with basic stipulations like VALID hsc card AND hunter safety course completion or hunting licenses.

The exact rules are still in the works but very soon we shall have easy access to our 2nd amendment rights to protect our family and selves with issued ccw licenses. Our mayor is on board 100% and is currently working to bring this to our town. If you are interested, please pick up a ccw permit at the LOMPOC POLICE Dept.

Fill it out and hold on to it till the mayor signs off on it. There is an expected rush of applicants that will be turning there's in. So please be ready to turn it in as first come... first issued.

Doesn't read like an official press release, but if this is true it's amazing. I know the focus is on county compliance, but cities strapped for cash might see issuance making more sense for them. It looks like the training requirements are pretty lax too. Now I just need to move to Lompoc...

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 3:58 PM
Just got back from Lock and load Gunsmithing in Lompoc, where they had the following flyer on the counter:



Doesn't read like an official press release, but if this is true it's amazing. I know the focus is on county compliance, but cities strapped for cash might see issuance making more sense for them. It looks like the training requirements are pretty lax too. Now I just need to move to Lompoc...

Please get us, if you can, their requirements. We need to make sure that if they're going to be in the issuance game they need to not do anything unlawful like a US Citizenship requirement or a 1 million dollar liability policy. The focus is almost entirely on counties but not exclusively so.

IGOTDIRT4U
08-18-2011, 4:19 PM
Please get us, if you can, their requirements. We need to make sure that if they're going to be in the issuance game they need to not do anything unlawful like a US Citizenship requirement or a 1 million dollar liability policy. The focus is almost entirely on counties but not exclusively so.

Doesn't sound like it, if I am reading it right. Sounds like they 'lightened' the requirements if anything.

Interesting that a central coastal town would be so 2A as far as LTC permits.

Norsemen308
08-18-2011, 4:22 PM
Please get us, if you can, their requirements. We need to make sure that if they're going to be in the issuance game they need to not do anything unlawful like a US Citizenship requirement or a 1 million dollar liability policy. The focus is almost entirely on counties but not exclusively so.

hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

choprzrul
08-18-2011, 4:23 PM
Lompton? LTC? Yer kiddin', right?

All kidding aside, that is great news! Not only will Lompoc citizens be able to exercise their civil rights, it gives the rest of us an example to point to for our own CLEOs.

Keep us posted.

.

Walker
08-18-2011, 4:25 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Yes because someone who has a green card shouldn't have the same rights as a citizen......

bwiese
08-18-2011, 4:27 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

You're going to have to amend the Constitution to allow for your stance.

Fundamental individual rights are not citizenship-centric. Yes, valid ID and ad green card other security requirements may be allowable.

There's zero problems with a foreign dude who's willing to go thru all the paperwork (Green Card, etc.) plus applying for CCW. These folks are NOT the problem, despite your ill-though statements to the contrary.

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 4:34 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Under state law, all applications must be considered. However, illegal aliens are not of "good moral character" because of the nature of their illegality, and USCIS requires "good moral character" in order to continue to reside here.

US Citizenship requirements even effect permanent resident aliens from the UK and Canada. The ones that have sued against such requirements tend to be from there, not from Mexico.

You were a little too wide.

Connor P Price
08-18-2011, 4:35 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Do keep in mind that "non-citizen" does not equal "illegal alien" there are other options.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

notme92069
08-18-2011, 4:41 PM
You're going to have to amend the Constitution to allow for your stance.

Fundamental individual rights are not citizenship-centric. Yes, valid ID and ad green card other security requirements may be allowable.

There's zero problems with a foreign dude who's willing to go thru all the paperwork (Green Card, etc.) plus applying for CCW. These folks are NOT the problem, despite your ill-though statements to the contrary.

Bill, did you mention "CCW"?

Isn't there sever punishment for using that term here?????????

ke6guj
08-18-2011, 4:42 PM
Bill, did you mention "CCW"?

Isn't there sever punishment for using that term here?????????wow, something gets cut off? like the Yakuza?

FXR
08-18-2011, 5:39 PM
Please get us, if you can, their requirements. We need to make sure that if they're going to be in the issuance game they need to not do anything unlawful like a US Citizenship requirement or a 1 million dollar liability policy. The focus is almost entirely on counties but not exclusively so.

Mayor and Chief of Police emailed, and the wait begins...

LAWABIDINGCITIZEN
08-18-2011, 5:41 PM
There's zero problems with a foreign dude who's willing to go thru all the paperwork (Green Card, etc.) plus applying for CCW. These folks are NOT the problem...

Agreed.

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 6:05 PM
Bill, did you mention "CCW"?

Isn't there sever punishment for using that term here?????????

$10 donation to CGF. Pay up, Bill. :D

voiceofreason
08-18-2011, 6:29 PM
Congratulations to the citizens of Lompoc.

Talked with a friend that over the years has transitioned from vehemently anti-gun to asking which one I'd recommend.

She balked at the cost of the firearm itself, $100 for a mini-gun safe (kids in the house), the cost of ammo, and just about died when I recommended that she get good training and found out the cost.

When the topic moved to whether she needed some kind of permit to carry, I explained to her that in LA County, only the rich, famous, and connected get permits. She went off about how that is so unfair, etc...

I explained to her that politicians, their cronies, celebrities, and wealthy donors are the only ones responsible enough to get permits.

I then went on to explain that CA is anti-gun like she used to be and SO... she doesn't get a permit to carry a gun even if she gets buys one.

That was fun.

Congrats again to Lompoc!

Uxi
08-18-2011, 7:13 PM
Agreed. Alien permanent residents should have a right to carry as well, presenting their green card and State ID.

KWA-S
08-18-2011, 7:17 PM
Great news for Lompoc! Hopefully other towns start following its lead.

Kid Stanislaus
08-18-2011, 7:21 PM
There's zero problems with a foreign dude who's willing to go thru all the paperwork (Green Card, etc.) plus applying for CCW. These folks are NOT the problem, despite your ill-though statements to the contrary.

I'll second that. I work with a lot of Mexican nationals and they're a really good bunch of people to work with, more so than the Chicanos, although they're pretty decent to me.

Kid Stanislaus
08-18-2011, 7:22 PM
Bill, did you mention "CCW"?
Isn't there sever punishment for using that term here?????????

Sic'm NotMe!!

Kid Stanislaus
08-18-2011, 7:23 PM
wow, something gets cut off? like the Yakuza?

I'd really hate to have my Yakuza cut off!!:D

d_c_mar
08-18-2011, 8:27 PM
I'd really hate to have my Yakuza cut off!!:D

That does sound painful, I'd pay to $10 Bill!!:eek:

CCWFacts
08-18-2011, 8:59 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Illegal aliens are disqualified from possession and there's no real-world possibility of them ever getting LTCs.

Non-citizens who are here legally, on the other hand, have almost all the same rights as citizens. There have been court cases already that say that a non-citizen can't be discriminated against for LTCs. Think about it: could they pass a law that says that non-citizens aren't allowed to read certain books, or can't (or must) go to certain religious events? Of course not.

However much contempt you feel about non-citizens, what about when you are visiting other countries? Should people in France look at you with contempt because you're not French?

CalBear
08-18-2011, 9:03 PM
I then went on to explain that CA is anti-gun like she used to be and SO... she doesn't get a permit to carry a gun even if she gets buys one.

That was fun.
:43:

Rusty Scabbard
08-18-2011, 9:08 PM
Please forgive is this is a partial thread-jack...
Aren't CCW permits issued at the discretion of the sheriff, countywide ?

CalBear
08-18-2011, 9:10 PM
Please forgive is this is a partial thread-jack...
Aren't CCW permits issued at the discretion of the sheriff, countywide ?
California law authorizes both:

(a)(1)(A) The sheriff of a county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying satisfies any one of the conditions specified in subparagraph (D) and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

(B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying is a resident of that city, and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

Many cities have decided to send LTC requests to the county, but they do have the option of issuing to residents.

Rusty Scabbard
08-18-2011, 9:15 PM
Interesting. This may lead to some lively discussions between other agencies in Santa Barbara County. Thanks for the info CalBear.

Sgt Raven
08-18-2011, 10:02 PM
......snip.......

However much contempt you feel about non-citizens, what about when you are visiting other countries? Should people in France look at you with contempt because you're not French?

If you think they don't, then you haven't been there. :p

Sgt Raven
08-18-2011, 10:05 PM
California law authorizes both:



Many cities have decided to send LTC requests to the county, but they do have the option of issuing to residents.

At one time any CoP could issue to anyone in the county where their city was located. Then a CoP started doing just that and they changed the regulations, 'cause to many other CoP and Sheriffs complained.

ETA: look up Police Chief Eugene Byrd of Isleton, this was before Sacramento County went shall issue.

Milsurps
08-19-2011, 4:25 AM
Please forgive is this is a partial thread-jack...
Aren't CCW permits issued at the discretion of the sheriff, countywide ?

California law authorizes both:



Many cities have decided to send LTC requests to the county, but they do have the option of issuing to residents.

SBCO Sheriff Bill Brown isn't going to like this at all. :43:

That pompous A.. will fight this for sure. :mad:

Hope this is real and happens. :D

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 4:53 AM
At one time any CoP could issue to anyone in the county where their city was located. Then a CoP started doing just that and they changed the regulations, 'cause to many other CoP and Sheriffs complained.

ETA: look up Police Chief Eugene Byrd of Isleton, this was before Sacramento County went shall issue.

Let's not make this out to be something it isn't.

Before the "Byrd bill" passed in 1997, Chiefs of Police had the authority to issue licenses to carry to any resident of the same county. What essentially happened was that Sheriff Craig was not really issuing licenses to carry without a substantial campaign contribution. Byrd screwed all of that up for them for a few years. It was epic.

The sheriff in this particular case cannot force Lompoc to not issue. They have no authority to tell the city anything in this particular case.

Tarn_Helm
08-19-2011, 6:06 AM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

All rights in the Bill of Rights may be exercised by any person not otherwise prohibited, regardless of status of citizenship, especially if they are fundamental human rights, such as the right to defend one's life with armed force.

See the First Circuit Court of Appeals decision of Cases v. United States (1942).

(FYI: "Cases" is the Spanish name of the Puerto Rican man involved. It is not the English legal term, "case.")

If citizenship is not required, then it might also be the case one need not be a legal resident alien or naturalized citizen for purposes of exercising the right to keep and bear arms.

But I agree with the spirit of your objection.

We should not, as a practical matter, allow hostile enemy combatants to have guns just because we are zealous to recognize peoples' rights!

But sorting that out as a legal matter is tricky.

See chapter 7 of Stephen Halbrook's, That Every Man Be Armed (http://www.amazon.com/That-Every-Man-Armed-Constitutional/dp/0945999380/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313762430&sr=1-1), esp. pages 183-84 and pages 188-189.

Also see: Supreme Court Gun Cases (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_adv_b/?search-alias=stripbooks&unfiltered=1&field-keywords=&field-author=&field-title=supreme+court+gun+cases&field-isbn=&field-publisher=&node=&field-p_n_condition-type=&field-feature_browse-bin=&field-binding_browse-bin=&field-subject=&field-language=&field-dateop=&field-datemod=&field-dateyear=&sort=relevanceexprank&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.x=0&Adv-Srch-Books-Submit.y=0) by David Kopel, Stephen Halbrook and Alan Korwin.

:)

Untamed1972
08-19-2011, 8:19 AM
Wow.....that's pretty awesome. I wish SD county would get with the program.

winxp_man
08-19-2011, 10:25 AM
So lets say that Lompoc becomes SHALL ISSUE will that paint the way to all of CA becoming SHALL issue ? Just a thought thats all :D

Wherryj
08-19-2011, 10:29 AM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Well, there are quite a few LEGAL imigrants/aliens in the country. There are other categories of immigration status other than "citizen" and "illgeal".

J.D.Allen
08-19-2011, 3:04 PM
So lets say that Lompoc becomes SHALL ISSUE will that paint the way to all of CA becoming SHALL issue ?

:rofl2:

berg
08-19-2011, 3:36 PM
Just got back from Lock and load Gunsmithing in Lompoc, where they had the following flyer on the counter:



Doesn't read like an official press release, but if this is true it's amazing. I know the focus is on county compliance, but cities strapped for cash might see issuance making more sense for them. It looks like the training requirements are pretty lax too. Now I just need to move to Lompoc...

This part confuses me. Why would this ever be a good thing? Especially after reading so many threads about the scary gun handling witnessed at shooting ranges.

FXR
08-19-2011, 3:40 PM
This part confuses me. Why would this ever be a good thing? Especially after reading so many threads about the scary gun handling witnessed at shooting ranges.

Most states have much lighter training requirements than CA for getting a LTC. HSC and Hunter safety (which requires live fire) is equal to or greater training than required in most of the country. CA requirements, even if you can get a LTC, are an onerous time and money constraint to a lot of people.

Fjold
08-19-2011, 3:41 PM
If it goes through, you can all thank me later.

Anchors
08-19-2011, 5:05 PM
So Lompoc hasn't ceded power to the county?
Interesting.

If it goes through, you can all thank me later.

Was this your doing?

Dreaded Claymore
08-19-2011, 5:25 PM
This part confuses me. Why would [easy training requirements] ever be a good thing? Especially after reading so many threads about the scary gun handling witnessed at shooting ranges.

Because training can cost a lot of money.

Ford8N
08-19-2011, 5:32 PM
SBCO Sheriff Bill Brown isn't going to like this at all. :43:

That pompous A.. will fight this for sure. :mad:

Hope this is real and happens. :D

Let's hope. Parkinson in SLO county is just as anti Second Amendment/anti LTC if not more. Guns and gun owners = potential criminals in SLO county.

Fjold
08-19-2011, 5:58 PM
So Lompoc hasn't ceded power to the county?
Interesting.



Was this your doing?

It's nice to be the guy behind the guy with the ear of the king.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=359482&highlight=Lompoc

Anchors
08-19-2011, 7:20 PM
It's nice to be the guy behind the guy with the ear of the king.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=359482&highlight=Lompoc

I didn't get the reference, but either way, awesome!
I'm happy for you guys.
I wish Orange County could be persuaded to elect a sheriff that doesn't suck. OC is generally conservative and a lot of gun friendly people too :confused:

Rossi357
08-19-2011, 7:25 PM
Can a City Police Chief issue an ltc good in the entire state?
Can he issue an ltc to anyone living in that county, or is he restricted by law to issue only ppl living in that city?

wildhawker
08-19-2011, 7:45 PM
Can a City Police Chief issue an ltc good in the entire state?

Yes.

Can he issue an ltc to anyone living in that county, or is he restricted by law to issue only ppl living in that city?

He may only issue to city residents.

Anchors
08-19-2011, 7:52 PM
Yes.
He may only issue to city residents.

Can he retract his choice to cede power to the county at anytime?
For instance, could the Chief of Fountain Valley Police start issuing permits tomorrow and say "sorry Orange County, I have decided to take back control of permitting residents in my jurisdiction"?

wildhawker
08-19-2011, 8:03 PM
Can he retract his choice to cede power to the county at anytime?
For instance, could the Chief of Fountain Valley Police start issuing permits tomorrow and say "sorry Orange County, I have decided to take back control of permitting residents in my jurisdiction"?

A 'g' agreement may not be used to evade applications for those chiefs who have otherwise accepted and processed them, but they may terminate the agreement at any time.

Fountain Valley, IIRC, is probably unlawfully evading applications with a quasi-'g' agreement that is unequally applied.

-Brandon

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 8:39 PM
Just to add:

Lompoc residents will still have the ability to apply to the SB County Sheriff's for a CCW. Why anyone residing would is anyone's guess given Lompoc's soon to be new policy.

choprzrul
08-19-2011, 9:15 PM
Can't we all just establish residence in Lompoc?

Yeah, I know, not legal, but sure would be nice. Wish that we could somehow leverage 'equal protection under the law' to mean that we should all have equal means by which to protect our right to self defense. I find it very troublesome that King Parkinson can deny me of my civil rights while my neighbors in Lompoc can exercise theirs.

//end snivels

.

Anchors
08-19-2011, 9:40 PM
A 'g' agreement may not be used to evade applications for those chiefs who have otherwise accepted and processed them, but they may terminate the agreement at any time.

Fountain Valley, IIRC, is probably unlawfully evading applications with a quasi-'g' agreement that is unequally applied.

-Brandon

Is that an equal protection matter?

You're saying they can't make a "(g) agreement" with the county sheriff's department and then still choose to issue ANY carry licenses.
Essentially, they either have to completely submit to the county or completely take responsibility for the issuance in their jurisdiction.
Right?

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 9:59 PM
Is that an equal protection matter?

You're saying they can't make a "(g) agreement" with the county sheriff's department and then still choose to issue ANY carry licenses.
Essentially, they either have to completely submit to the county or completely take responsibility for the issuance in their jurisdiction.
Right?

Correct. They cannot have a situation where, say, their reserve officers can get city licenses but everyone else go to the sheriff. If any department has reserve officers at all, it's a way of forcing all issuance back to the city. Cities have smaller treasuries than the county, and though it's been made clear that the focus of the compliance initiative is counties, I can see some cities being made an example of just for fun.

Anchors
08-19-2011, 10:04 PM
Correct. They cannot have a situation where, say, their reserve officers can get city licenses but everyone else go to the sheriff. If any department has reserve officers at all, it's a way of forcing all issuance back to the city. Cities have smaller treasuries than the county, and though it's been made clear that the focus of the compliance initiative is counties, I can see some cities being made an example of just for fun.

Haha. For fun and as a message to the other cities and counties.
Start with Westminster :D
I don't think they have reserves, actually.

I bet smaller cities issue prosecutors and non-sworn police employees licenses though.

Ubermcoupe
08-19-2011, 10:07 PM
This is great news. Has it been 100% confirmed? I read there was an email inquiry to the mayor & COP, was there ever an update on that?

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 10:42 PM
This is great news. Has it been 100% confirmed? I read there was an email inquiry to the mayor & COP, was there ever an update on that?

Let's hold off on independently emailing the CoP and the Mayor for now. We have two stakeholders on the ground there, and *puts on CGF volunteer hat* We (as in CGF) will be engaged with Lompoc to make sure their policy is 100% compliant with state law and make sure the process is freest to the best extent possible to Lompoc residents. Stay tuned!

SteveS
08-19-2011, 11:11 PM
And here I am, living 1 mile outside the Lompoc city limits...:cuss:
Can't win for losing...:(

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 11:21 PM
Rent or own? Any possible annexing?

SteveS
08-20-2011, 12:12 AM
Own. Sigh
Annexing?
Thats a possibility, but there's bad that would come with the good.
Their utilities are owned by the city, whereas I deal with PG&E and the Gas Company directly.
The city skims off a percentage.
Their city council has made some horrible decisions that have cost the residents dearly.
They do so love spending big $$$ on 'wacko' stuff.
I'll be moving to Oregon in a couple of years, and I already have the OR and UT CCW permits.
I can wait.

wildhawker
08-20-2011, 12:43 AM
I'm betting you have your CA LTC before you move...

Own. Sigh
Annexing?
Thats a possibility, but there's bad that would come with the good.
Their utilities are owned by the city, whereas I deal with PG&E and the Gas Company directly.
The city skims off a percentage.
Their city council has made some horrible decisions that have cost the residents dearly.
They do so love spending big $$$ on 'wacko' stuff.
I'll be moving to Oregon in a couple of years, and I already have the OR and UT CCW permits.
I can wait.

Danhood
08-20-2011, 1:07 AM
Congratulations Lompoc hope more cities join you soon.

Californio
08-20-2011, 9:34 AM
Just to add:

Lompoc residents will still have the ability to apply to the SB County Sheriff's for a CCW. Why anyone residing would is anyone's guess given Lompoc's soon to be new policy.

Its is funny Sheriff Bill Brown was the Lompoc Chief before becoming Sheriff and basically NO Issue, Kama is a B if the current Lompoc Chief is Shall Issue and Bill Brown continues to be No Issue, unless you a member of the Sheriffs Aero Squadron.

Fjold
08-20-2011, 9:55 AM
Own. Sigh
Annexing?
Thats a possibility, but there's bad that would come with the good.
Their utilities are owned by the city, whereas I deal with PG&E and the Gas Company directly.
The city skims off a percentage.
Their city council has made some horrible decisions that have cost the residents dearly.
They do so love spending big $$$ on 'wacko' stuff.
I'll be moving to Oregon in a couple of years, and I already have the OR and UT CCW permits.
I can wait.

Actually, Lompoc is a member of the Northern California Power Authority (NCPA) the electrical rates are at least 30% lower than PG&E's.

Guncraftsman
08-21-2011, 10:09 AM
Whoa now... This is all nice talk but nothing... I say "Nothing" has been done. Just a bunch of talk... I've talked to our Mayor of Lompoc and this doesn't sound like an over night quick fix. So save your Congrats until the fat lady sings.

Gray Peterson
08-21-2011, 10:52 AM
Whoa now... This is all nice talk but nothing... I say "Nothing" has been done. Just a bunch of talk... I've talked to our Mayor of Lompoc and this doesn't sound like an over night quick fix. So save your Congrats until the fat lady sings.

Nice of you to be a killjoy. There's no indication that this will not be done and the indicators are positive.

The reason "It won't be done overnight" is because the Mayor and the Council is doing research on what the policy should be to comply with state law. Myself and other CGF volunteers will be on hand to help.

Guncraftsman
08-21-2011, 7:09 PM
Sorry, Not trying to be a killjoy. I just don't want people to think this is done, it's in the works. As of right now the information has been given to our Mayor which he is going over. That flyer that started this thread is from my store. I'm feeling moraly obligated to make sure the facts are being presented.

insipidtoast
08-29-2011, 10:28 AM
Hello,

I'm posting on here because I heard about this "news" before this thread even started. I believe I've been in contact with the guy who put the announcement up in the Lompoc gunshop as mentioned above.

A few weeks back, there was a message on craigslist saying that Lompoc's mayore was going Shall Issue with CCWs. So, I promptly started a dialogue with the poster who claimed to be friends with the mayor and apparently did some good lobbying. He said that the CCW is valid for all SB county residents. Not just Lompoc residents.

Being a resident of Santa Barbara City, I drove up to the Lompoc Police Department and picked up an application. The application was just a standard, outdated, old application that did not reflect, in any way, a shall issue policy.

Today, I called the Sargeant in charge of processing CCW applications and asked a couple questions regarding the application. The first: What course of training do you require? The answer: Any CCW course would suffice.

Next, I asked about Sections 6, 7, and 8, which "must be completed in the presence of an official of the licensing agency." The sargeant said I would have to schedule an appointment for that after I drop off the application, and I would also have to pay for psychological testing and a polygraph test!

To me, none of that sounds like Shall Issue.

I asked the guy from craigslist a while ago whether I'd need to be interviewed and what gun class I would need to take, and he never responded. So, I can only assume he doesn't know.

I realize there hasn't been an update to this thread in a while, so I just wanted to give my input. There you have it? Anyone else have some news?

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 10:32 AM
We'll know very soon. CGF Initiative coordinator Gray Peterson has reached out to the City and I expect they'll be responding, one way or the other, within a few days.

-Brandon

Hello,

I'm posting on here because I heard about this "news" before this thread even started. I believe I've been in contact with the guy who put the announcement up in the Lompoc gunshop as mentioned above.

A few weeks back, there was a message on craigslist saying that Lompoc's mayore was going Shall Issue with CCWs. So, I promptly started a dialogue with the poster who claimed to be friends with the mayor and apparently did some good lobbying. He said that the CCW is valid for all SB county residents. Not just Lompoc residents.

Being a resident of Santa Barbara City, I drove up to the Lompoc Police Department and picked up an application. The application was just a standard, outdated, old application that did not reflect, in any way, a shall issue policy.

Today, I called the Sargeant in charge of processing CCW applications and asked a couple questions regarding the application. The first: What course of training do you require? The answer: Any CCW course would suffice.

Next, I asked about Sections 6, 7, and 8, which "must be completed in the presence of an official of the licensing agency." The sargeant said I would have to schedule an appointment for that after I drop off the application, and I would also have to pay for psychological testing and a polygraph test!

To me, none of that sounds like Shall Issue.

I asked the guy from craigslist a while ago whether I'd need to be interviewed and what gun class I would need to take, and he never responded. So, I can only assume he doesn't know.

I realize there hasn't been an update to this thread in a while, so I just wanted to give my input. There you have it? Anyone else have some news?

HowardW56
08-29-2011, 10:45 AM
We'll know very soon. CGF Initiative coordinator Gray Peterson has reached out to the City and I expect they'll be responding, one way or the other, within a few days.

-Brandon

And all this time I thought you were doing all the work on the Sunshine Initiative....

:eek:



Hi Gray, just picking on Brandon here..... :D

The Shadow
08-29-2011, 10:47 AM
Is that an equal protection matter?

You're saying they can't make a "(g) agreement" with the county sheriff's department and then still choose to issue ANY carry licenses.
Essentially, they either have to completely submit to the county or completely take responsibility for the issuance in their jurisdiction.
Right?

Correct. They cannot have a situation where, say, their reserve officers can get city licenses but everyone else go to the sheriff. If any department has reserve officers at all, it's a way of forcing all issuance back to the city. Cities have smaller treasuries than the county, and though it's been made clear that the focus of the compliance initiative is counties, I can see some cities being made an example of just for fun.

I believe a CoP can allow his reserves to have 24 hr peace officer status under 830.1, which essentially means he doesn't have to issue a CCW to his reserves, just a badge and ID.

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 10:55 AM
In all seriousness, there's a host of people to thank for its product, especially these rock stars:

Gray Peterson, Andrew Mendez, Dan Todd, Ben Henslin (obeygiant), and, of course, Jason Davis. Also, every single Initiative supporter - we're expanding the audit and analysis this year and will incur significantly more cost, so every single donation is a difference-maker.

-Brandon

And all this time I thought you were doing all the work on the Sunshine Initiative....

:eek:


Hi Gray, just picking on Brandon here..... :D

ke6guj
08-29-2011, 11:02 AM
Being a resident of Santa Barbara City, I drove up to the Lompoc Police Department and picked up an application. The application was just a standard, outdated, old application that did not reflect, in any way, a shall issue policy.AFAIK, if you live in one incorporated city, you can't get a CCW from another city. YOu can only get your license from YOUR city (not another city in the same county) or from your Sheriff's Office.

Untamed1972
08-29-2011, 11:12 AM
I believe a CoP can allow his reserves to have 24 hr peace officer status under 830.1, which essentially means he doesn't have to issue a CCW to his reserves, just a badge and ID.

The CoP can't just "allow" that or "grant" that. The reserve would have to have met the CA-POST training and experience requirements set out in the law and be qualified as a "Level 1 reserve" to have 24-7 peace officer powers. Basically that means they are fully qualified to be full time, paid LEOs, but they do so only as an unpaid volunteer.

gtturborex
08-29-2011, 11:12 AM
Thanks to CGF for stepping up and contacting the City. As far as I was told the city is currently looking into all the legalities that goes with this. We have a friendly Mayor and some friends on the City Council that will hopefully go a long way.

I was actually scanning the flier to post on here when I came across this thread.

I will be picking up my application today!

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Thanks to CGF for stepping up and contacting the City. As far as I was told the city is currently looking into all the legalities that goes with this. We have a friendly Mayor and some friends on the City Council that will hopefully go a long way.

I was actually scanning the flier to post on here when I came across this thread.

I will be picking up my application today!

The application is here: http://calgunsfoundation.org/downloads/documents/DOJ_CCW_App_Fillable.pdf

HowardW56
08-29-2011, 11:25 AM
I believe a CoP can allow his reserves to have 24 hr peace officer status under 830.1, which essentially means he doesn't have to issue a CCW to his reserves, just a badge and ID.

I believe you are correct, see 830.6 PC...

Sub95
08-29-2011, 12:07 PM
yes we have a very friendly Mayor and some friends on the City Council.

glad i dont have to live in lompoc to be able to get one.

what does this mean? would a disturbing the peace ticket fall under this and would i need to tell them.

""List any arrests or formal charges, with or without disposition, for any criminal
offenses with the U.S. or any other country (civilian or military). ""

and why would we have to have psychological testing?.

MatrixCPA
08-29-2011, 12:11 PM
and why would we have to have psychological testing?

I believe that's referred to as a "barrier to entry". It's just a mechanism to either dissuade you from even trying or to provide an opportunity for you to fail.

Sub95
08-29-2011, 12:14 PM
oh nice.

Thanks

stix213
08-29-2011, 12:27 PM
Hello,

I'm posting on here because I heard about this "news" before this thread even started. I believe I've been in contact with the guy who put the announcement up in the Lompoc gunshop as mentioned above.

A few weeks back, there was a message on craigslist saying that Lompoc's mayore was going Shall Issue with CCWs. So, I promptly started a dialogue with the poster who claimed to be friends with the mayor and apparently did some good lobbying. He said that the CCW is valid for all SB county residents. Not just Lompoc residents.

Being a resident of Santa Barbara City, I drove up to the Lompoc Police Department and picked up an application. The application was just a standard, outdated, old application that did not reflect, in any way, a shall issue policy.

Today, I called the Sargeant in charge of processing CCW applications and asked a couple questions regarding the application. The first: What course of training do you require? The answer: Any CCW course would suffice.

Next, I asked about Sections 6, 7, and 8, which "must be completed in the presence of an official of the licensing agency." The sargeant said I would have to schedule an appointment for that after I drop off the application, and I would also have to pay for psychological testing and a polygraph test!

To me, none of that sounds like Shall Issue.

I asked the guy from craigslist a while ago whether I'd need to be interviewed and what gun class I would need to take, and he never responded. So, I can only assume he doesn't know.

I realize there hasn't been an update to this thread in a while, so I just wanted to give my input. There you have it? Anyone else have some news?

Will all those requirements, I don't see anything you've said to indicate they aren't taking "Self Defense" as good cause. Arizona is shall issue and they still require a CCW course of some kind. The Psych and poly tests could be part of their Good Moral Character testing....

glockman19
08-29-2011, 12:30 PM
Perhaps less restrictive requirements because of the Prison? They do have a mandate to release over 40,000 in the next 24 months.

FXR
08-29-2011, 6:27 PM
AFAIK, if you live in one incorporated city, you can't get a CCW from another city. YOu can only get your license from YOUR city (not another city in the same county) or from your Sheriff's Office.

Correct, there's been some recent talk of this happening in a city in sac county in the late '90s... I can't remember the details but I believe "some entity" (can't remember) put an end to it. It's a shame we don't do it through the DMV like Washington does... although that would make the DMV lines truly unbearable.

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 6:31 PM
AFAIK, if you live in one incorporated city, you can't get a CCW from another city. YOu can only get your license from YOUR city (not another city in the same county) or from your Sheriff's Office.

This is 100% correct. To add, only sheriffs have authority to issue limited business-class licenses (90 days).

-Brandon

Librarian
08-29-2011, 6:34 PM
Correct, there's been some recent talk of this happening in a city in sac county in the late '90s... I can't remember the details but I believe "some entity" (can't remember) put an end to it. It's a shame we don't do it through the DMV like Washington does... although that would make the DMV lines truly unbearable.

That was Chief Eugene Byrd in Isleton in the mid 1990s; law was changed to allow only city residents from city chiefs.

See, for example, http://articles.sfgate.com/1995-10-20/news/17818685_1_isleton-byrd-permits

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 6:35 PM
Correct, there's been some recent talk of this happening in a city in sac county in the late '90s... I can't remember the details but I believe "some entity" (can't remember) put an end to it. It's a shame we don't do it through the DMV like Washington does... although that would make the DMV lines truly unbearable.

That was Chief Byrd of the City of Isleton. His practice caused the State to enact AB 2022 in 1999, which created the system we run under today.

I have a WA non-resident license, and, IIRC, you have to apply at a law enforcement office in the area you reside (or, if non-resident, any).

-Brandon

SanPedroShooter
08-29-2011, 6:53 PM
I am applying for my non res WA CPL in a few weeks, and it you can apply at any LE angency in the state. For resident permits, its the county (or city?) you live in. YThe DMV doesnt do the CPL, but there is a board of licenses that you can access from the DMV site, so it looks like they are conected. WA state was one of the original "shall issue" states I believe, going back to the sixties.

I have residency, but I am usually not there for 90 days together (which is a requirement) so I think I will opt for non resident. I think thats okay, I was going to the state police and ask.

socalblue
08-29-2011, 8:11 PM
Haha. For fun and as a message to the other cities and counties.
Start with Westminster :D
I don't think they have reserves, actually.

I bet smaller cities issue prosecutors and non-sworn police employees licenses though.

They do & issue LTC's to those that are not Level 1d's (full time status).

As a note, with the advent of Level 1d authority less & less LTC's are being issued to reserve officers. In reality only regular Level 1,2 or 3 reserves will need an LTC moving forward & there are fewer of those all the time.

Judges & other court employees would be my bet for the place to look moving forward.

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 8:16 PM
The classes of carry licenses are as set forth in the Code:

12050(a)(2)(A)(i) 2 year “civilian”
12050(a)(2)(A)(ii) 90 day “employment”
12050(a)(2)(B) 4 year “officer”
12050(a)(2)(C) 3 year “judicial”
12050(a)(2)(D) 4 year “custodial”

socalblue
08-29-2011, 8:18 PM
The CoP can't just "allow" that or "grant" that. The reserve would have to have met the CA-POST training and experience requirements set out in the law and be qualified as a "Level 1 reserve" to have 24-7 peace officer powers. Basically that means they are fully qualified to be full time, paid LEOs, but they do so only as an unpaid volunteer.

Almost ... Must be a Level-1d (designated) which means having the same full POST academy & field training that a regular has. The city/county must also pass an ordinance recognizing the 1d's as having full time status.

In the past one could become a Level 1 by having a Level 2 academy (at that time ~250 less hours academy time) + additional field training. Once reaching that goal the agency could upgrade status to a Level 1 (work alone, be an FTO, etc.). This is the route most folks took as the Level 2 academy fit nicely into a single CC semester (2 nights + a weekend day each week).

Gray Peterson
08-29-2011, 8:23 PM
I am applying for my non res WA CPL in a few weeks, and it you can apply at any LE angency in the state. For resident permits, its the county (or city?) you live in. YThe DMV doesnt do the CPL, but there is a board of licenses that you can access from the DMV site, so it looks like they are conected. WA state was one of the original "shall issue" states I believe, going back to the sixties.

I have residency, but I am usually not there for 90 days together (which is a requirement) so I think I will opt for non resident. I think thats okay, I was going to the state police and ask.

It was passed in 1961. Just an FYI, I know of NO agencies in Washington which treats resident and non-resident timelines differently. The statute says they can take twice as long, but the background check is exactly the same. They can take 60 days, but they generally take no more than 30, especially with the King County Sheriff Department up in Seattle.

Slight correction to Brandon's point: the "Byrd Bill" was an independent bill of AB2022 in 1999. It actually occurred in 1997.

Byrd Bill, aka SB146-1997 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/sen/sb_0101-0150/sb_146_cfa_19970827_174422_asm_floor.html)

wildhawker
08-29-2011, 8:27 PM
Thanks for the record correction Gray.

-Brandon

It was passed in 1961. Just an FYI, I know of NO agencies in Washington which treats resident and non-resident timelines differently. The statute says they can take twice as long, but the background check is exactly the same. They can take 60 days, but they generally take no more than 30, especially with the King County Sheriff Department up in Seattle.

Slight correction to Brandon's point: the "Byrd Bill" was an independent bill of AB2022 in 1999. It actually occurred in 1997.

Byrd Bill, aka SB146-1997 (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/97-98/bill/sen/sb_0101-0150/sb_146_cfa_19970827_174422_asm_floor.html)

insipidtoast
09-05-2011, 1:35 PM
Here's an update from the craigslist guy:

sorry about not getting back to you. I have been in contact for several months working this deal. And John who is our mayor is a personal friend of mine.. and as far as Tammy Clancy is concerned whom I guess is the Sgt you contacted is still way " old school" and couldn't care less of the situation.The mayor and I are trying to locate another mayor in the state of CA who has also drafted the order for shall issue to his police chief.. Here is the snag.. Our chief says there isn't a code yet for shall issue.. however there is a code for the mayor being the elected official and the chiefs boss.. With this that means the cheif MUST COMPLY with the order to shall issue.. If you know this code please let me know. Ive been researching it along with the mayor to prove to our retarded chief that he must comply... After that we shall all be granted "ccw under shall issue".

HowardW56
09-05-2011, 1:44 PM
Here's an update from the craigslist guy:

sorry about not getting back to you. I have been in contact for several months working this deal. And John who is our mayor is a personal friend of mine.. and as far as Tammy Clancy is concerned whom I guess is the Sgt you contacted is still way " old school" and couldn't care less of the situation.The mayor and I are trying to locate another mayor in the state of CA who has also drafted the order for shall issue to his police chief.. Here is the snag.. Our chief says there isn't a code yet for shall issue.. however there is a code for the mayor being the elected official and the chiefs boss.. With this that means the cheif MUST COMPLY with the order to shall issue.. If you know this code please let me know. Ive been researching it along with the mayor to prove to our retarded chief that he must comply... After that we shall all be granted "ccw under shall issue".

The angle for that is department policy. The mayor and city council get to determine what the official policies are. The Chief follows the boss's policy, or is disciplined/replaced.

Librarian
09-05-2011, 1:58 PM
?? There's some question that the Chief of Police is required to obey direction from the City Council and the Mayor pro tem? That's a question for the city attorney, I think.

wildhawker
09-05-2011, 2:01 PM
The chief serves at pleasure of city council. It's a political question, not a legal one per se.

HowardW56
09-05-2011, 2:06 PM
The chief serves at pleasure of city council. It's a political question, not a legal one per se.


Absolutely... :iagree:

Andy Taylor
09-05-2011, 3:15 PM
A police chief does not have to get permission from the city council to issue permits. However if he/she does something the council doesn't like, he/she may be looking for another job.
on another subject:
When I got my Non-res WA permit from the Yakima Police Department, it was in my mail box in Sacramento about 3 weeks.

The address was listed on the permit as:
123 XXXXX Street
Sacramento WA 958XX

Paul S
09-05-2011, 10:19 PM
wow, something gets cut off? like the Yakuza?

Youre being BAAAAAAD again. ;)

a1c
09-06-2011, 7:01 AM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

So to you, if someone is not a US citizen, they're illegal?

Do you know ANYTHING about your own country's civic liberties or immigration laws? What is the matter with you?

By the way, I am a legal immigrant in this country. I have exactly the same rights you do, except I can't vote - yet.

Glock22Fan
09-06-2011, 8:02 AM
The only think I can't do is become President.


Oh wait, maybe I can hide my Birth Certificate.

HowardW56
09-06-2011, 8:06 AM
The only think I can't do is become President.


Oh wait, maybe I can hide my Birth Certificate.


The only THINK????

choprzrul
09-06-2011, 8:25 AM
Thread drift.....


This thread gives me the idea that getting local CLEO to issue begins with the city council. Very interesting. 3 gunnies on the council and you have pro LTC policy power!

.

a1c
09-06-2011, 8:36 AM
Thread drift.....


This thread gives me the idea that getting local CLEO to issue begins with the city council. Very interesting. 3 gunnies on the council and you have pro LTC policy power!

.

It probably helps the policy that there are both an AFB and a federal prison nearby.

RazzB7
09-06-2011, 8:41 AM
It probably helps the policy that there are both an AFB and a federal prison nearby.

Having lived in Lompoc for a lot of years, I can tell you a bit about the population there. It's a lot of good down-to-earth, solid mainly conservative people there. The main industry is a diatomaceous earth quarry and a lot of farming. Quite a few retired air force and federal prison employees also.

a1c
09-06-2011, 8:57 AM
Having lived in Lompoc for a lot of years, I can tell you a bit about the population there. It's a lot of good down-to-earth, solid mainly conservative people there. The main industry is a diatomaceous earth quarry and a lot of farming. Quite a few retired air force and federal prison employees also.

Yup - that's what I was getting at. It's a generally very gun-friendly population.

Glock22Fan
09-06-2011, 12:16 PM
The only THINK????

Yes, I only think I can't become President.

Darn, that's my second typo this century!

dantodd
09-06-2011, 12:50 PM
Posting off of my phone or iPad has destroyed my spelling and grammar.

sfpcservice
09-06-2011, 2:03 PM
The chief serves at pleasure of city council. It's a political question, not a legal one per se.

This is why when a Chief or Sheriff says issuing permits is a "liability", they aren't lying under the "May-Issue" system. City council or the voters can come back and say "you didn't have to issue the permit, so we're canning you". Under "Shall-Issue" this wouldn't be a factor as a Chief or Sheriff wouldn't have a choice.

I understand the voters could also say "you aren't issuing enough permits, so we're canning you", but not as likely as the 1st scenario in this state, especially if a permit holder committed a violent crime.

I am aware of the government code that gives them immunity from liability, but as was already said, that's immunity from legal liability, not political liability.

WallyGeorge
10-01-2011, 8:54 AM
Anyone know if I can apply to Lompoc for CCW while living in SB County (Orcutt) unincorporated area?

Fjold
10-01-2011, 8:57 AM
Anyone know if I can apply to Lompoc for CCW while living in SB County (Orcutt) unincorporated area?

Only residents of the City of Lompoc can apply to the city, you have to apply with the county sheriff.

studlee1a
10-11-2011, 8:28 AM
I originally contacted Mayor John regarding this issue (used to work for him!) after talking with another guy that informed me he was in a position to do this... Well I followed up with him the other day and was told that an answer is just around the corner and things seem to be moving along. He told me to just be patient.....

I find this is a hard thing to do after hearing AB 144 :(


Our men an women are overseas fighting for our freedoms and they're taking them away on our own home turf! I feel bad for our troops more than anything....

Come on John, help us get some of our freedoms back!

AnthonyD1978
10-11-2011, 3:11 PM
Our men an women are overseas fighting for our freedoms and they're taking them away on our own home turf! I feel bad for our troops more than anything....

Come on John, help us get some of our freedoms back!

I'm sorry for being so off topic, but I absolutely hate it when people say our troops are being killed overseas to protect our freedoms. That is some propaganda BS that the goverment says...

...and before you flame me my grandfather, father, brother, and myself have all served....myself being Airborne Infantry.

Studlee, no offense to you. I know you meant well, but I just get very frustrated with how our troops are treated and used for political agendas.

vintagearms
10-11-2011, 3:26 PM
Illegal aliens are disqualified from possession and there's no real-world possibility of them ever getting LTCs.

However much contempt you feel about non-citizens, what about when you are visiting other countries? Should people in France look at you with contempt because you're not French?

Im not living there off their govt. assistance. Big difference. :facepalm:

bwiese
10-11-2011, 3:29 PM
However much contempt you feel about non-citizens, what about when you are visiting other countries? Should people in France look at you with contempt because you're not French?

Umm poor example..

... people in France look at everyone else with contempt.

And these are the people that eat escargot and are a bit short in the deodorant department.

Fjold
10-11-2011, 3:34 PM
I originally contacted Mayor John regarding this issue (used to work for him!) after talking with another guy that informed me he was in a position to do this... Well I followed up with him the other day and was told that an answer is just around the corner and things seem to be moving along. He told me to just be patient.....

I find this is a hard thing to do after hearing AB 144 :(


Our men an women are overseas fighting for our freedoms and they're taking them away on our own home turf! I feel bad for our troops more than anything....

Come on John, help us get some of our freedoms back!

John has all the information that he requested and is working on the issue. He seems pretty confident.

a1c
10-11-2011, 3:39 PM
Umm poor example..

... people in France look at everyone else with contempt.

And these are the people that eat escargot and are a bit short in the deodorant department.

C'mon, Bill. Let's not make outdated silly generalizations. All the people I know who visited France over the past few decades have only had good experiences with the French.

As a French immigrant now living in the US, I am amused by such comments, as I found the Americans and the French have a lot more in common than they think.

Pretty much everybody else accuses them both of being arrogant and having a superiority complex. No wonder they have such an intertwined history.

For every silly generalization about my people lacking in the deodorant department, I could make a joke about fat Americans. For every snotty Frenchman, there is one (or more) American who thinks he's better than the rest of the world because he was born here.

Yeah, Parisians can be a PITA. So can New Yorkers.

So give me a break.

badhabit90
10-11-2011, 4:18 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America
word....

FEDERAL PROHIBITING CATEGORIES FOR POSSESSING FIREARMS
Gun Control Act of 1968, Title 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44
As of January, 1999

-• Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

and i live here..so we shall see if this happens...now my wife can get her CCW....woot!!!

7x57
10-11-2011, 4:23 PM
For every silly generalization about my people lacking in the deodorant department, I could make a joke about fat Americans.


Q: Why are the boulevards in France planted with trees on both sides?

A: So the German army can march in the shade.

-- translated by a friend for me from a French-language magazine. I am merely the messenger.... :D


Yeah, Parisians can be a PITA. So can New Yorkers.


So your theory is that New Yorkers count as Americans? Hah--we say worse things about them than we say about the French. :rofl:

7x57

Kosuki
10-11-2011, 5:22 PM
Just got back from Lock and load Gunsmithing in Lompoc, where they had the following flyer on the counter:



Doesn't read like an official press release, but if this is true it's amazing. I know the focus is on county compliance, but cities strapped for cash might see issuance making more sense for them. It looks like the training requirements are pretty lax too. Now I just need to move to Lompoc...

I knew i liked lompuke for a reason ^^

Left Coast Conservative
10-11-2011, 5:44 PM
So lets say that Lompoc becomes SHALL ISSUE will that paint the way to all of CA becoming SHALL issue ? Just a thought thats all :D

I wouldn't bet on it. Sheriff Smith in Santa Clara County will only convert when COMPELLED to convert. And I would not be surprised if she used every delaying tactic she could think of.

Delta Echelon
10-12-2011, 4:44 AM
As a resident of Lompoc I am very excited to say the least. Was planning on going for a walk later today so i'll swing by Lock & Load to see if I can get anymore info.

CaliforniaLiberal
10-12-2011, 5:41 PM
C'mon, Bill. Let's not make outdated silly generalizations. All the people I know who visited France over the past few decades have only had good experiences with the French.

As a French immigrant now living in the US, I am amused by such comments, as I found the Americans and the French have a lot more in common than they think.

Pretty much everybody else accuses them both of being arrogant and having a superiority complex. No wonder they have such an intertwined history.

For every silly generalization about my people lacking in the deodorant department, I could make a joke about fat Americans. For every snotty Frenchman, there is one (or more) American who thinks he's better than the rest of the world because he was born here.

Yeah, Parisians can be a PITA. So can New Yorkers.

So give me a break.


Welcome to America!!

I don't think anyone can argue about the American sense of superiority and entitlement and also ignorance.

My father invaded French Morocco with Patton in operation Torch in 1942. Fought the Vichy French for three days before they surrendered. He once told me that he could find no lack of courage in the French military that he encountered.

But we must have some country/people we can make jokes about and feel superior to.

Have you ever noticed that Americans never make jokes about the Vietnamese military or their courage?

Liberty1
10-13-2011, 6:14 AM
This part confuses me. Why would this ever be a good thing? Especially after reading so many threads about the scary gun handling witnessed at shooting ranges.

Because state mandated classes have no bearing on safety. Vermont has none for LOC and LCC as well as most every state west of the Mississippi for LOC. Their accident rates are not higher then restrictive states. And crime is generally lower (because RKBA is easer to exercise).

State licenses and mandated BS classes serve as roadblocks to a vibrant 2A culture (the best training/safety environment IMO - Darwin or threat thereof works too).

studlee1a
01-01-2012, 1:27 PM
I'm sorry for being so off topic, but I absolutely hate it when people say our troops are being killed overseas to protect our freedoms. That is some propaganda BS that the goverment says...

...and before you flame me my grandfather, father, brother, and myself have all served....myself being Airborne Infantry.

Studlee, no offense to you. I know you meant well, but I just get very frustrated with how our troops are treated and used for political agendas.

I never said anything about anyone being killed...?

I said our troops are fighting overseas...and how is that propaganda Govt bs? Why are we even overseas if its all propaganda? I guess I was under the impression we we're fighting to keep other countries from just walking in and taking over...which is what I thought the term "fighting for our freedom" meant...

I've heard strait from friends coming back from deployment how ****ty it is to hear laws like this being passed... or how they can't smoke OUTSIDE on their own AFB without having to find a dedicated smoking area...

Fjold
01-01-2012, 3:17 PM
Just to get this back on topic:

The work on this has been delayed because of some issues that have come up (budgetary, unrelated to guns) that has taken up all the time of the City Council and Mayor.

problemchild
01-02-2012, 5:57 PM
You're going to have to amend the Constitution to allow for your stance.

Fundamental individual rights are not citizenship-centric. Yes, valid ID and ad green card other security requirements may be allowable.

There's zero problems with a foreign dude who's willing to go thru all the paperwork (Green Card, etc.) plus applying for CCW. These folks are NOT the problem, despite your ill-though statements to the contrary.

Anyone who is here ILLEGALLY broke the law and is NOT welcome here. Im not sure who "THESE PEOPLE" are but if they broke the law getting here they need to leave via handcuffs and a bus asap.

1859sharps
01-02-2012, 6:10 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

just throwing out some food for thought...

if everyone can legally carry..ie "level playing field"...does it really matter if they are "illegal" or not?

why should you need to be a citizen to be able to protect your self?

personally, in a "perfect world" I don't care who carries as long as I get to as well. as long as your not committing a crime, what's the issue?

hoffmang
01-02-2012, 7:35 PM
Anyone who is here ILLEGALLY broke the law and is NOT welcome here. Im not sure who "THESE PEOPLE" are but if they broke the law getting here they need to leave via handcuffs and a bus asap.

So Handcuffs and a bus and no CCW for speeding tickets too?

Man I can't wait to see my commute time cut!

Civil rights are not based on nationality.

-Gene

monkeshine
01-03-2012, 11:53 AM
City of Lompoc, CA, to go Shall Issue!!

Question: If 4 Los Angeles residents buy a 4 bedroom home in Lompoc, make it their permanent residence but maintain a "second" home in Los Angeles... would they become eligible for residency and then obtain a LTC?

There are some reasonably priced homes in the area and with conforming 30 year loan the home would cost about $125 a month for each of the 4 people, plus utilities and taxes which would add a small bit more.

Bobshouse
01-03-2012, 12:34 PM
The City of Lompoc lost it's hero, Police Chief Bill Brown recently. He is now the Santa Barbara County Sheriff...and last I heard he was cancelling carry permits for people who have had them for 15 years or more.

This is great news, but pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

Fjold
01-03-2012, 6:11 PM
The City of Lompoc lost it's hero, Police Chief Bill Brown recently. He is now the Santa Barbara County Sheriff...and last I heard he was cancelling carry permits for people who have had them for 15 years or more.

This is great news, but pardon me if I don't hold my breath.

The City Of Lompoc has an existing policy to issue LTCs by the Chief of Police, they have not delegated that resposibility to Sheriff Brown. They are currently re-writing their policy to make sure that they are in compliance with State law.

Paladin
01-04-2012, 6:18 AM
Just to get this back on topic:

The work on this has been delayed because of some issues that have come up (budgetary, unrelated to guns) that has taken up all the time of the City Council and Mayor.

The City Of Lompoc has an existing policy to issue LTCs by the Chief of Police, they have not delegated that resposibility to Sheriff Brown. They are currently re-writing their policy to make sure that they are in compliance with State law.If you want to save them some time, I think CGF might have a model policy laying around their website somewhere.... ;)

WootSauce
06-26-2012, 9:43 PM
Sorry to necro this old thread but I haven't heard anything new on this.

So, is there anything new?

NoJoke
06-27-2012, 6:19 AM
Wow.....that's pretty awesome. I wish SD county would get with the program.

Maybe I'll e-mail the Oceanside COP Frank McCoy this story....in hopes he'll issue.

I've e-mailed him the story of a sacramento town beginning to issue outside of their "section g restriction"

Capybara
06-27-2012, 7:21 AM
Umm poor example..

... people in France look at everyone else with contempt.

And these are the people that eat escargot and are a bit short in the deodorant department.

I was in France this week. Trust me, they do look down on Americans with a mix of contempt, superiority and hospitality. They need our tourist dollars badly but truth be told, they are not really friendly toward us. At least in Paris. In the country and smaller cities, people are nicer.

Rossi357
06-27-2012, 10:40 AM
Umm poor example..

... people in France look at everyone else with contempt.

And these are the people that eat escargot and are a bit short in the deodorant department.

LOL Crossing "visit France" off my bucket list.

Fjold
06-28-2012, 6:08 PM
Financial issues in Lompoc delayed other projects by the city council. They expect to have some news right after summer.

a1c
06-28-2012, 6:13 PM
I was in France this week. Trust me, they do look down on Americans with a mix of contempt, superiority and hospitality. They need our tourist dollars badly but truth be told, they are not really friendly toward us. At least in Paris. In the country and smaller cities, people are nicer.

Obviously. Imagine the experience foreign tourists have when they visit the United States for the first time and experience it with a trip in Manhattan. How friendly do you think Americans are going to come across? :D

WootSauce
06-28-2012, 6:38 PM
Financial issues in Lompoc delayed other projects by the city council. They expect to have some news right after summer.

Yeah i saw that it had been delayed for that. Thank you for the update though, exactly what I was looking for. Now if only we could extend the city line to where I live haha.

WootSauce
05-08-2013, 4:59 PM
2013 Update request! lol

Any news?

I'm about to move into the city limits so I'm very interested.

Fjold
05-08-2013, 6:16 PM
2013 Update request! lol

Any news?

I'm about to move into the city limits so I'm very interested.

I met with the Mayor and a city councilman last month and they are working on the issue still. They have a copy of the Calguns Foundation ideal policy and are working from that.

I was told that the change in the policy is a higher priority now and they are working on it.

rsacks
05-08-2013, 6:33 PM
(B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying is a resident of that city, and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

This is very interesting to me, as I live in a county where the sheriff will only issue if you donate 5+ figures to her campaign. Why on earth should I not approach my police chief and ask to be issued a permit, since the sheriff is breaking the law and leaving us out in the cold? And if he is a reasonable person, why not issue? They would get revenue and a reputation as 2A friendly.

The Geologist
05-08-2013, 8:35 PM
This part confuses me. Why would this ever be a good thing? Especially after reading so many threads about the scary gun handling witnessed at shooting ranges.

I believe there is an initial State training requirement of 16 hrs (8 hrs classroom, 8 hrs range time)

Librarian
05-08-2013, 9:34 PM
(B) The chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county, upon proof that the person applying is of good moral character, that good cause exists for the issuance, and that the person applying is a resident of that city, and has completed a course of training as described in subparagraph (E), may issue to that person a license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in either one of the following formats:

This is very interesting to me, as I live in a county where the sheriff will only issue if you donate 5+ figures to her campaign. Why on earth should I not approach my police chief and ask to be issued a permit, since the sheriff is breaking the law and leaving us out in the cold? And if he is a reasonable person, why not issue? They would get revenue and a reputation as 2A friendly.

'may issue' is equally legal for Sheriffs and Chiefs; refusing to issue for what seems to you and me to be reasonable needs is the way the law is written - the issuer has to agree and there are no objective standards.

The accusation of 'CCW for contributions' has not yet been proven for any current sheriff; if established, that charge would be corruption that should be prosecutable.

Police chiefs especially are subject to the political winds in their cities; unlike Sheriffs, who are elected on their own, chiefs serve at the whim of the city government (Mayor, Council, what-have-you). If those worthies are not 2A supporters, there is some risk to a chief's job should s/he act differently from the elected city officials' perceptions of what their voters want.

mej16489
05-09-2013, 11:13 AM
I believe there is an initial State training requirement of 16 hrs (8 hrs classroom, 8 hrs range time)

The initial training may not be greater then 16 hours. There is no requirement for range time.

For renewals its a minimum of 4 hours.

26165.
(a) For new license applicants, the course of training for issuance of a license under Section 26150 or 26155 may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall not exceed 16 hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm.

(c) For license renewal applicants, the course of training may be any course acceptable to the licensing authority, shall be no less than four hours, and shall include instruction on at least firearm safety and the law regarding the permissible use of a firearm. No course of training shall be required for any person certified by the licensing authority as a trainer for purposes of this section, in order for that person to renew a license issued pursuant to this article.

Fjold
05-09-2013, 3:39 PM
In discussions today with city officials in Lompoc, they said that CCW reform will not be presented until after the annual budget is submitted in the third week of June.

WootSauce
05-09-2013, 4:12 PM
In discussions today with city officials in Lompoc, they said that CCW reform will not be presented until after the annual budget is submitted in the third week of June.

Thank you for the update Fjold

sully007
05-09-2013, 6:23 PM
So this was started Aug 2011 and now almost two years later it's being pushed on the back burner.
Not sure it's going to happen.


Just Saying!
From my Brain cells to your's

sl0re10
05-09-2013, 6:30 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

I'm not an expert but I've noticed most laws (on almost any subject) include citizens or 'resident aliens'. I'm guessing they need to include that also to stay out of trouble. Not illegals; rather legal long term guests / residents...

WootSauce
09-28-2013, 1:27 AM
5-ish month later update? I moved into Lompoc city limits now so I'm really hoping that this has progressed some.

Fjold
09-28-2013, 8:42 AM
Government moves slow. I just asked the Mayor what the status of this was last night.

ap3572001
09-28-2013, 9:07 AM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

You opinion is wrong.

I came to this country legally at the age of 15. Did not become a citizen till the age of 20.

I went to school , had a job and LEGALLY owned long guns since the age of 18.

For over 20 years now I work as an AMERICAN LEO and before that worked for the federal government overseas. In the places that You would never want visit . Not even for one day.

Are You saying that I did not count before I turned 20?

Think again......

Paladin
09-28-2013, 9:42 AM
Government moves slow. I just asked the Mayor what the status of this was last night.
Well??????? What did the mayor say?

Fjold
09-28-2013, 10:22 AM
Well??????? What did the mayor say?

Sorry, it was in an email. He hasn't responded yet.

Paladin
10-08-2013, 7:16 PM
Sorry, it was in an email. He hasn't responded yet.

:sleeping: ;)

Fjold
10-08-2013, 8:24 PM
Sorry, I've been busy.

The update is that the CGF Ideal LTC policy is in review by the Chief of Police. They have another meeting scheduled this month to discuss it.

WootSauce
11-28-2013, 1:15 AM
Any news from that meeting if it actually ended up taking place?

Fjold
11-28-2013, 7:23 AM
From what I was told the review of the policy is still going on and a couple of other issues such as the surprise retirement of the City Manager and the subsequent search for a replacement have changed the priorities.

vincewarde
11-28-2013, 10:54 PM
My father invaded French Morocco with Patton in operation Torch in 1942. Fought the Vichy French for three days before they surrendered. He once told me that he could find no lack of courage in the French military that he encountered.

Actually, they didn't surrender. There was a "cease fire" that resulted in the French forces switching sides from Vichy to the Free French. This had actually been arranged beforehand, and there was not supposed to be any fighting - but the majority of the French forces believed they need to fight to defend their honor and in hopes that the Germans would go easier on the people back home (they didn't).

The fact that the French fought hard under these circumstances says a lot about their courage.

WootSauce
11-29-2013, 1:25 AM
From what I was told the review of the policy is still going on and a couple of other issues such as the surprise retirement of the City Manager and the subsequent search for a replacement have changed the priorities.

Once again, thanks for the updates.

I hope we see some results in 2014, but I'm not going to hold my breath...

Sakiri
11-29-2013, 2:39 PM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

Because it cuts out LEGAL aliens.

There *are* people that move here on work and residence visas that don't or eventually won't become citizens. They get most of the same rights as the rest of us do on residence visas(can't vote, for one).

And the bigger question is, the requirements outside "good cause" aren't a problem(well they are, but they're the least of them). The biggest problem is COST.

Humboldt's going to run me over 300. For a two year permit. What. the. Crap.

Sakiri
11-29-2013, 2:44 PM
Most states have much lighter training requirements than CA for getting a LTC. HSC and Hunter safety (which requires live fire) is equal to or greater training than required in most of the country. CA requirements, even if you can get a LTC, are an onerous time and money constraint to a lot of people.

Wait.

CA hunter's safety requires live fire?

When I was in PA it was a book test. A book test, a demonstration of handling. No live fire.

Exospeed
11-30-2013, 10:27 AM
Why am I just now finding this thread....


Tagged so I can read it when I get time...

Nodaedul
12-01-2013, 1:02 AM
No need to read it. Summary is for the last few years nothing has happened and probably never will.

Deimos887
12-01-2013, 1:20 AM
Yeah... I heard about all this a couple years ago (outside Calguns).. I had a chuckle and forgot about it. Never even knew this thread existed... but pretty much sums it up.

Paladin
12-01-2013, 5:52 AM
From what I was told the review of the policy is still going on and a couple of other issues such as the surprise retirement of the City Manager and the subsequent search for a replacement have changed the priorities.Why am I not surprised?

Fighting for CCWs in this state is like being in a soap opera: one cliff hanger after another, and this one is just for "winning" in the [c]ity of Lompoc, for crying out loud, not even someplace like SF or LA!

Seems like there are NEVER any CA cities/counties that get to readily issuing CCWs w/o having been dragged there kicking & screaming....

Thx for the update. Please keep us posted.

Doheny
12-03-2013, 8:48 AM
Re: the thread title, when will folks learn that there is no such thing as shall issue in CA regardless of what the policy of a city council, chief of police or sheriff may be?

A jurisdiction may have something that resembles shall issue. However, all it takes is an election to occur replacing city council members or the sheriff or a new police chief to be appointed and said jurisdiction's policy could change to a very restrictive/may issue policy overnight. Orange County is a perfect example. The previous sheriff issued plenty of permits, but the current sheriff voided and recalled many of them and is much more restrictive in her issuance.

WootSauce
03-10-2014, 4:59 AM
Just wondering if Lompoc PD has officially changed its policy in light if the recent court rulings.

Basically I'm just wondering when I can go to the PD and apply

pastureofmuppets
03-10-2014, 3:04 PM
Hunter safety for a CCW huh?

That's a little weird.

Librarian
03-10-2014, 3:31 PM
See the LTC forum - no.

ns3v3n
03-10-2014, 5:35 PM
Hunter safety for a CCW huh?

That's a little weird.

Not really, hunter safety class teaches you about safety when you're around firearm and awareness around and behind the game when you shoot. Maybe not the conservation about wildlife or their habitat part but definitely relevant about firearm safety and what you should consider when you pull that trigger.

Fjold
03-10-2014, 9:58 PM
Just wondering if Lompoc PD has officially changed its policy in light if the recent court rulings.

Basically I'm just wondering when I can go to the PD and apply

Not yet, although not from lack of trying. The City had a budget crisis of sorts last year, then their Chief retired and they had to do a search for a new COP. Then they had their City Manager retire so they had to take time to find a new one. The COP works for their City Manager not directly for the City Council so every new person in that organization has to be brought in on developing the policy. It's been one thing after another.

We're still working on it, I had an email conversation with the local politicians two nights ago. I'm working in New Zealand right now so communications are done from long distance.

chris1911
03-11-2014, 10:59 AM
I really doubt Lompoc will go shall issue. No way is Bill Brown going to just let that happen.

http://www.independent.com/news/2013/jul/11/strict-stance-concealed-weapons/?on

chris1911
03-11-2014, 10:59 AM
I really doubt Lompoc will go shall issue. No way is Bill Brown going to just let that happen.

http://www.independent.com/news/2013/jul/11/strict-stance-concealed-weapons/?on

randomBytes
03-11-2014, 11:46 AM
hows being a US citizenship requirement unlawful? personally if you aren't a citizen, you dont count in my opinion... last thing we need is a bunch of illegal aliens of ANY RACE or nation, carrying in America

You do realize that between citizen and illegal alien is legal permanent resident ?

WootSauce
03-12-2014, 12:54 AM
I really doubt Lompoc will go shall issue. No way is Bill Brown going to just let that happen.

http://www.independent.com/news/2013/jul/11/strict-stance-concealed-weapons/?on

*Santa Barbara County Sheriff* Bill Brown has nothing to do with the *City of Lompoc* or the *Lompoc* Police Dept.'s policies.

Highlighted the important differences.

Fjold
03-12-2014, 12:54 AM
I really doubt Lompoc will go shall issue. No way is Bill Brown going to just let that happen.

http://www.independent.com/news/2013/jul/11/strict-stance-concealed-weapons/?on

Bill Brown has no vote or authority in the matter. When a City puts their own LTC policy in place it takes the sheriff out of the decision making process.

WootSauce
03-12-2014, 1:00 AM
Not yet, although not from lack of trying. The City had a budget crisis of sorts last year, then their Chief retired and they had to do a search for a new COP. Then they had their City Manager retire so they had to take time to find a new one. The COP works for their City Manager not directly for the City Council so every new person in that organization has to be brought in on developing the policy. It's been one thing after another.

We're still working on it, I had an email conversation with the local politicians two nights ago. I'm working in New Zealand right now so communications are done from long distance.

Thank you for the update.

I know it has been one thing after another, I've been trying to follow this as closely as I can, I'm just waiting for the day when it finally does change. Trust me, I'll be the first one in line down at the PD.

Fjold
03-12-2014, 4:33 PM
Thank you for the update.

I know it has been one thing after another, I've been trying to follow this as closely as I can, I'm just waiting for the day when it finally does change. Trust me, I'll be the first one in line down at the PD.

Talk to Dirk and John and tell them to get moving. The more they hear from their constituents, the better.