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OC Speedball
08-18-2011, 3:50 PM
Shooting BB and pellet guns that is! I used to shoot BB guns in my backyard as a kid in the suburbs of Orange County. I live in an apartment now, but my family has a house with a pretty big yard in the suburbs. I was thinking of getting a new pellet gun and showing my little brother how to shoot.

Is this legal? I know people do it all the time, but if for some reason someone DID call the cops would I get fined?


Also, in my old neighborhood a while back a mountain lion jumped into a guys backyard. He saw it and then grabbed his 9mm and shot it. It jumped over his fence and ran towards the elementary school. They had to put the school on lockdown. (This was also in OC).

So, hypothetically speaking, if a mountain lion DID jump in the backyard and you shot it, could you get in trouble? Some animal rights groups did try to press charges on the guy, but I don't think anything happened. I was just cruising another thread and saw this:

Why can't mountain lions be hunted in California?
With the passage of Proposition 117 in 1990, mountain lions became a "specially protected species," making mountain lion hunting illegal in California. This status and other statutes prohibit the Department of Fish and Game from recommending a hunting season for lions, and it is illegal to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or part of a mountain lion. Mountain lions may be killed only 1) if a depredation permit is issued to take a specific lion killing livestock or pets; 2) to preserve public safety; or 3) to protect listed bighorn sheep.

I'm guessing that situation would fall under #2? I hope this is the right forum section for this question! Cheers.

jwkincal
08-18-2011, 4:02 PM
Most cities in CA have municipal ordinances prohibiting the discharge of bb/pellet guns... OC being OC, there may be a county ordinance too.

If you are in fear of your life or your children's life on your own property you can shoot the very last endangered anything on the planet. Better be able to produce the soiled undies to prove that you were afraid, though...

duggan
08-18-2011, 4:05 PM
Pellet and BB guns are firearms when it comes to shooting them within city limits (where I am anyway), check the local regs where you are and it should have something regarding them. As for the big kitties it's a toss up I guess. They are protected, but under certain instances which you posted it's do-able, but I'm thinking it's best not to shoot unless you have no other way to protect yourself or someone else.

redcliff
08-18-2011, 4:24 PM
Just my opinion, but I think the outlawing of shooting bb guns has done a lot to hurt our firearms heritage in this state.

When I was young almost every kid had a bb gun, and we practiced marksmanship. Yes, there was the danger that "you'd shoot your eye out" but most people learned gun safety from their folks and learned to respect firearms from shooting bb guns imho.

By allowing bb guns to be outlawed we've accepted the anti-gunners agenda and indocrination for our children that "guns are bad".

I would love to see the laws changed to at least allow bb gun shooting in the presence of an adult in an area with a safe backstop, even if it required a hunting license or a safety class be attended.

gunsmith
08-18-2011, 9:27 PM
I agree, even though I got a bb stuck in my forehead during the mutiple wars we had in my youth...I got better

Quiet
08-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Check your city & county ordinances for prohibitions on the discharge of firearms & BB/airguns.
If your city and/or county prohibits it, then it would be illegal to discharge a BB/airgun in your backyard.

CA state laws classifies BB/airguns are "imitation firearms" [PC 12550(c)] and restricts them from being exposed/displayed in "public places" [PC 12556(a)], with "public places" being any place open to the public (which includes front yards, driveways and doorways/entrances to buildings) [PC 12556(e)]. So be aware of this while carrying the BB/airgun around the exterior of your home.

CA state laws [F&GC 4800(c)] state that if you can prove that you injuried/killed a mountain lion in self defense, you will not be charged with a crime.




Penal Code 12550
As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
(a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
(b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
(c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

Penal Code 12556
(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
(1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
(2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm.
(3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production.
(4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
(5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities.
(6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges.
(7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
(9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
(10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
(12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
(e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

Fish & Game Code
(a) The mountain lion (genus Felis) is a specially protected mammal under the laws of this state.
(b) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter or in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990.
(c) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting in self-defense or in defense of others.
(d) Section 219 does not apply to this chapter. Neither the commission nor the department shall adopt any regulation that conflicts with or supersedes any of the provisions of this chapter.

CessnaDriver
08-18-2011, 10:57 PM
I ordered up some new pellets and took my old Benjamin pump pistol from my teen years in the backyard a little while ago and had at some cans.

If that's illegal, they can arrest me! LOL

donw
08-19-2011, 5:58 AM
Most cities in CA have municipal ordinances prohibiting the discharge of bb/pellet guns... OC being OC, there may be a county ordinance too.

If you are in fear of your life or your children's life on your own property you can shoot the very last endangered anything on the planet. Better be able to produce the soiled undies to prove that you were afraid, though...

this says it all.

mt lions are a BIG TIME "NO-NO" to kill here in California.

in fact, you may not even possess PARTS of one. (as in maybe you came across a road killed one) my son and i found a mt lion skull in the desert and called the DFG...they said to leave it alone, give them the location and they would get it. and...if you happen on a road killed one or if you accidentally strike and kill one, you're supposed to notify the DFG

SteveMartin
08-19-2011, 6:13 AM
I wonder if Bighorn sheep make good pets.

haole_50
08-19-2011, 6:14 AM
The mistake is that "FIREARM" is not a BB/Pellet gun, it must be a explosive "propellant" and air is not that, it's what I breath. Yes, I'm a "Winged Rat" assassin in my neighborhood, and yes SO has seen me "firing" my pellet gun at these vermin. So NO a BB/Pellet gun is not a FIREarm. I'm still here and never been to jail.

Paul_R
08-19-2011, 6:28 AM
So, hypothetically speaking, if a mountain lion DID jump in the backyard and you shot it, could you get in trouble? Some animal rights groups did try to press charges on the guy, but I don't think anything happened.





I've actually had to deal with this one and the advice from the Game Warden was to say this:

"It's ears were back it's teeth were showing and I felt threatened"

OC Speedball
08-19-2011, 8:42 PM
Wow. So most likely it's illegal to shoot a BB gun in your backyard? That's pretty sad.

I see kids running around here with airsoft guns, shooting each other out in the streets, and no one seems to care. Maybe I'll go to the city hall and ask them?

Thanks for the help guys.

Burbur
08-19-2011, 9:30 PM
From my local Municipal Code

10.72.020 - Firearms—Defined.

For the purposes of this chapter "firearm" shall mean and include a "rifle," "shotgun," "pistol," "revolver," and any other instrument which expels a metallic projectile, such as a BB or pellet, through the force of gunpowder, explosive, air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, or any spot marker gun.

My Daisy, my cheap *** Crossman spring pistol, my paintball gun, my Sig as far as City Council is concerned; a discharge is a discharge is a discharge.

That said, I first found out about this while paintballing in the river bed. SO rolls on us and had a polite conversation about how what we were doing was illegal, but they didn't really care.

GettoPhilosopher
08-19-2011, 11:55 PM
If you are in fear of your life or your children's life on your own property you can shoot the very last endangered anything on the planet. Better be able to produce the soiled undies to prove that you were afraid, though...

"I swear, your honor, that Condor was coming RIGHT AT ME!"

Anchors
08-20-2011, 12:00 AM
Wow dude. I have totally been guilty of "LOC" my Daisy Red Ryder from the car to the house several times haha.
I shoot my BB gun in my backyard in Orange County all the time and I'm not in a sparse area.
No one cares. If they come to your house, just tell them you heard the noise too, but that it wasn't you.
The cops could give a crap less about BB guns, they have more important stuff to worry about. Even the officers in my "boring" city would no doubt NOT care about BB guns.

Check your city & county ordinances for prohibitions on the discharge of firearms & BB/airguns.
If your city and/or county prohibits it, then it would be illegal to discharge a BB/airgun in your backyard.

CA state laws classifies BB/airguns are "imitation firearms" [PC 12550(c)] and restricts them from being exposed/displayed in "public places" [PC 12556(a)], with "public places" being any place open to the public (which includes front yards, driveways and doorways/entrances to buildings) [PC 12556(e)]. So be aware of this while carrying the BB/airgun around the exterior of your home.

CA state laws [F&GC 4800(c)] state that if you can prove that you injuried/killed a mountain lion in self defense, you will not be charged with a crime.




Penal Code 12550
As used in this article, the following definitions apply:
(a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001.
(b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001.
(c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.

Penal Code 12556
(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
(1) Packaged or concealed so that it is not subject to public viewing.
(2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm.
(3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production.
(4) Used in conjunction with a certified or regulated sporting event or competition.
(5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, or lawful pest control activities.
(6) Used or possessed at certified or regulated public or private shooting ranges.
(7) Used at fairs, exhibitions, expositions, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(8) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials.
(9) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection.
(10) Used in parades, ceremonies, or other similar activities for which a permit has been obtained from a local or state government.
(11) Displayed on a wall plaque or in a presentation case.
(12) Used in areas where the discharge of a firearm is lawful.
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
(e) For purposes of this section, the term "public place" means an area open to the public and includes streets, sidewalks, bridges, alleys, plazas, parks, driveways, front yards, parking lots, automobiles, whether moving or not, and buildings open to the general public, including those that serve food or drink, or provide entertainment, and the doorways and entrances to buildings or dwellings.
(f) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preclude prosecution for a violation of Section 171b, 171.5, or 626.10.

Fish & Game Code
(a) The mountain lion (genus Felis) is a specially protected mammal under the laws of this state.
(b) It is unlawful to take, injure, possess, transport, import, or sell any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, except as specifically provided in this chapter or in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 2116) of Division 3. This chapter does not prohibit the sale or possession of any mountain lion or any part or product thereof, when the owner can demonstrate that the mountain lion, or part or product thereof, was in the person's possession on June 6, 1990.
(c) Any violation of this section is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or a fine of not more than ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment. An individual is not guilty of a violation of this section if it is demonstrated that, in taking or injuring a mountain lion, the individual was acting in self-defense or in defense of others.
(d) Section 219 does not apply to this chapter. Neither the commission nor the department shall adopt any regulation that conflicts with or supersedes any of the provisions of this chapter.

locosway
08-20-2011, 12:31 AM
When I was about 9-10 I had the cops come and take away my BB guns. A neighbor called and said I was shooting the gun in my backyard. This was Anaheim in Orange County.

Now we still live in Anaheim, but the backyard is very large, and my kids have been learning with a BB gun. :)

Quiet
08-20-2011, 12:58 AM
The mistake is that "FIREARM" is not a BB/Pellet gun, it must be a explosive "propellant" and air is not that, it's what I breath. Yes, I'm a "Winged Rat" assassin in my neighborhood, and yes SO has seen me "firing" my pellet gun at these vermin. So NO a BB/Pellet gun is not a FIREarm. I'm still here and never been to jail.

San Bernardino County has no ordinances prohibiting the use of BB/airguns.
Shoot away. ;)

Anchors
08-20-2011, 1:31 AM
Just spray paint the BB gun: white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple.
Then, according to the law, it isn't an imitation firearm.
I'm going to get my AR Cerakoted bright purple haha.

(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
...
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
...
13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.

Anchors
08-20-2011, 1:31 AM
Just spray paint the BB gun: white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple.
Then, according to the law, it isn't an imitation firearm.
I'm going to get my AR Cerakoted bright purple haha.

(a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
...
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the imitation firearm is:
...
13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.

DocSkinner
08-20-2011, 9:04 AM
I've actually had to deal with this one and the advice from the Game Warden was to say this:

"It's ears were back it's teeth were showing and I felt threatened"

May get tricky if you could have simply closed you door and called 911 or animal control instead of arming yourself and going OUT to meet it.

"I was afraid for my life, which is why after I saw it through my window, I went and got my pistol and went out to defend myself, as after all, I was afraid for my life"...

If you happened to be outside, and your pistol handy, you might make a claim, but if you you have to go arm yourself and choose to put yourself in danger when you were not in danger and did not have to be in danger, I think you got problems.

ccmc
08-20-2011, 1:35 PM
May get tricky if you could have simply closed you door and called 911 or animal control instead of arming yourself and going OUT to meet it.

"I was afraid for my life, which is why after I saw it through my window, I went and got my pistol and went out to defend myself, as after all, I was afraid for my life"...

If you happened to be outside, and your pistol handy, you might make a claim, but if you you have to go arm yourself and choose to put yourself in danger when you were not in danger and did not have to be in danger, I think you got problems.

Good point. Not to mention that needlessly shooting animals alienates a lot of people (gun owners and non-gun owners alike), and generates bad karma.

Hilldweller
08-20-2011, 2:04 PM
If you're going to shoot it, why not arm yourself with a camera. Then call animal control and advise them of the danger. When it's captured sell your photos to the news folks and make a few bucks on your 'close encounter of the furry kind'.

If you're inside, stay inside. Arm yourself? Okay, just in case that furry kitty is actually a rabid zombie cat that would crash through your sliding glass patio door to get at you. Oh, forget the 9mm....go with the 12 ga.

CSACANNONEER
08-20-2011, 2:20 PM
I thought that you could only take a mountain lion with a bayonet.

Seriously, the last thing you should do is risk taking a shot at it and wounding it. If that happens, you've just created a much more dangerous situation, specially if, the cat elludes capture or being put down immediately after that. If you shot a cat in your backyard and, it escaped, lived but, was wounded so, it ended up taking a small child (not normal prey but a wounded and starving animal can become desparate), I would consider you to be 100% responsible for that child's death. But, if you did not shoot a cat which was not threatening you nor anyone else and that cat later decided to prey on humans, why would you be to blame? You would have done what was morally and ethically right by letting the cat live in his territory (you know, the area you moved to and the same one that his family has been in for thousands of years.

bld0121
08-20-2011, 3:12 PM
I wonder if Bighorn sheep make good pets.

This ^^^ is the best post on this thread! (sorry to everyone else)

bballwizard05
08-20-2011, 3:37 PM
So I've spent 30 min trying to find a map or something to show where the Unincorporated parts of SLO county are. I'm lost. Any help?

DocSkinner
08-20-2011, 4:04 PM
...

Okay, just in case that furry kitty is actually a rabid zombie cat that would crash through your sliding glass patio door to get at you. Oh, forget the 9mm....go with the 12 ga.

OH! that would make such a fantastic B movie! "attack of the zombie cats"

Dave A
08-20-2011, 4:14 PM
My general understanding from people that live in rural areas, the foothills and mountains of California and who might meet up with an unfriendly large kitty is as follows.

Follow the principles of the three S's - shoot, shovel and shut up.

The do gooders from SF and LA who put the ridiculous laws on the books that protect mountain lions have caused a situation where the cats are over populating their normal territory, which brings some of them into contact with humans in urbanized areas. A typical situation where well meaning idiots try to manage a situation that has no bearing on where they live and play and cause more problems than they could ever anticipate. I sincerely doubt that they will ever admit they were wrong in my lifetime.

Paul_R
08-20-2011, 4:19 PM
May get tricky if you could have simply closed you door and called 911 or animal control instead of arming yourself and going OUT to meet it.

"I was afraid for my life, which is why after I saw it through my window, I went and got my pistol and went out to defend myself, as after all, I was afraid for my life"...

If you happened to be outside, and your pistol handy, you might make a claim, but if you you have to go arm yourself and choose to put yourself in danger when you were not in danger and did not have to be in danger, I think you got problems.

Jeebus I can't cover every contingency in a two sentence post! Suffice to say common sense prevails. ;)

ColdDeadHands1
08-20-2011, 4:43 PM
So I've spent 30 min trying to find a map or something to show where the Unincorporated parts of SLO county are. I'm lost. Any help?

Try this and use the filters, It is the SLO Assessors interactive GIS maps.

http://www.sloplanning-maps.org/ed.asp?bhcp=1