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Cutest
08-18-2011, 12:34 PM
I got mine locked and unloaded in my trunk tucked away unseen. Any foreseeable problems with this or any places to avoid? Maybe parking lots of post offices, etc? Please help the law is complex beyond belief.

Untamed1972
08-18-2011, 12:40 PM
My main concern with it is what if your car gets stolen or broken into?

I've never been comfortable with the notion of leaving guns "unattended" anywhere except in my safe at home.

But that's just me. Guess it also depends on where you live/work/frequent and the places your car is left parked.

Cato
08-18-2011, 12:46 PM
I'm interested in the answer too.

If it's all locked up, would it be legal to pick up your kids in the school parking lot?

b.faust
08-18-2011, 12:50 PM
I'm with Untamed. I don't like leaving any of my stuff (even non gun related) unattended in a car overnight.

That being said, I live in San Francisco so the odds of getting a window broken and the whole car ransacked is pretty high, even in good neighborhoods. I never leave anything I'm even slightly attached to in the vehicle...and I have a locked secure garage here.

I'd hate to have to:
A: Explain to the police that some criminal just armed himself with something of mine.
B: Replace said expensive something of mine.

Cato
08-18-2011, 1:00 PM
That being said, I live in San Francisco so the odds of getting a window broken and the whole car ransacked is pretty high, even in good neighborhoods. I never leave anything I'm even slightly attached to in the vehicle...and I have a locked secure garage here.



Why are the odds of getting a window broken higher in SF? Is it higher foot traffic or homeless population? Inept police?

Cutest
08-18-2011, 1:01 PM
A: Explain to the police that some criminal just armed himself with something of mine.


If it was stolen. Would you really have to explain anything? I mean you are the victim here. Would they spin it to like: your car wasn't secure enough. your gun safe wasn't secure enough.

solventnine
08-18-2011, 1:05 PM
Unfortunately the state rarely sees gun owners as "victims."

b.faust
08-18-2011, 1:08 PM
If it was stolen. Would you really have to explain anything? I mean you are the victim here. Would they spin it to like: your car wasn't secure enough. your gun safe wasn't secure enough.

I'd just feel personally responsible for having given some jerkoff access to a firearm.
I should rephrase that to say,

"I would dread having to tell LEOs that I just armed a criminal because I couldn't be bothered to keep my gear secure."

I'd feel even worse if it got used on someone later.

stix213
08-18-2011, 1:09 PM
I often leave one in the car while at work, among a number of other emergency supplies I'd like to have available if I were stranded pretty much anywhere. I live in a very quiet neighborhood where a car being broken into is basically unheard of, but I still don't like to leave it in the car overnight.

If you're dreading having to tell the police that your gun was stolen though, how about ask them if their chief would have issued you a carry license? If you're in the high populated counties the answer is most likely "no," so there you go. That's why it was unattended in the car, due to their department policy.

Untamed1972
08-18-2011, 1:11 PM
I'm with Untamed. I don't like leaving any of my stuff (even non gun related) unattended in a car overnight.

I am the same way. After having a vehicle stolen once, and another one broken into.....I just dont make a habit of leaving anything of any value in my car.

I never never leave bags, backpacks or anything like that visible when it's parked, even if there is nothing valuable in them, cuz thieves will think their might be. Dont even leave visible change in my cupholders. So if someone looks in my car, all the see is seats and floor mats. Even XM receiver and stereo face plate go in the glovebox when parked so they are not visible.

When transporting anything of value, it doesn't stay in the car any longer than neccesary. The most expensive thing that gets left in my car all the time is a portable tool set I got at Home Depot for $99.

mrdd
08-18-2011, 1:12 PM
If it's all locked up, would it be legal to pick up your kids in the school parking lot?

Locked and unloaded firearm, yes. But, you cannot carry even one round of ammunition onto school grounds without an LTC or other exemption. PC 30310.

djleisure
08-18-2011, 1:27 PM
Why are the odds of getting a window broken higher in SF? Is it higher foot traffic or homeless population? Inept police?
The biggest problem in SF is the way the city is built with "required ghetto" every few blocks. They have these forced low-income housing projects all over the place. That basically means that you can be walking through a "nice neighborhood" for about 8 blocks, then have to put up with bullsh*t and watching your back for a couple blocks. It was one of my least favorite things about living in SF - not that I mind "ghetto" per se, I just don't like it sneaking up on me like that. :)

Oh and I had a Jeep Wrangler when I lived there and after getting the top slashed up the first time, I just took it off and left it wide open w/ a bikini top year round. I lost track of how many sleeping bums/junkies I had to kick out of it - though I mostly found that funny (if not a little sad.)

And to the OP, I always carry a 12ga locked up (unseen) in my FJ Cruiser. I live in LA and it's a volatile city - I won't be the next Reginald Denny. ;)

NorCalDustin
08-18-2011, 2:00 PM
I often leave one in the car while at work, among a number of other emergency supplies I'd like to have available if I were stranded pretty much anywhere. I live in a very quiet neighborhood where a car being broken into is basically unheard of, but I still don't like to leave it in the car overnight.

If you're dreading having to tell the police that your gun was stolen though, how about ask them if their chief would have issued you a carry license? If you're in the high populated counties the answer is most likely "no," so there you go. That's why it was unattended in the car, due to their department policy.
As I see it... Use a "DOJ Approved Lock Box" that is secured via a cable to somewhere in your car AND Always lock your car..

If it is broken into and stolen, you used a DOJ approved lock box on your unloaded weapon which was in your LOCKED car. You took sufficient measures to keep it protected and out of anyone elses hands.

I would also suggest applying for an LTC... Best case, you have an LTC and you can just keep it on you... Worst case, you have an LTC denial that you can bring up if anyone ever thought you did not go to sufficient measures to protect it.



Anyway, I really dont know... But that's probably along the lines of what I would most likely do if I were you.

blakdawg
08-18-2011, 2:07 PM
Why are the odds of getting a window broken higher in SF? Is it higher foot traffic or homeless population? Inept police?

I suspect it's a combination of an enormous homeless/criminal population, uninterested police, and a criminal court/jury system that views the perpetrators as victims. They'd probably award damages to the defendants if they could.

Regardless of why it's true, it is absolutely true - nothing of apparent value should ever be left in a car unattended in SF.

My friends who have lived there have ended up disposing of their cars - between having to ransom them from the clutches of predatory tow companies and the constant replacement of window glass and lock hardware, it's just not worth the trouble.

donw
08-18-2011, 2:09 PM
If it was stolen. Would you really have to explain anything? I mean you are the victim here. Would they spin it to like: your car wasn't secure enough. your gun safe wasn't secure enough.


as convoluted as California legislators are...don't be surprised at how they would try to turn it around on you if some one rips you off. you know...make you out to be the bad guy for having a firearm in your vehicle...:(

blakdawg
08-18-2011, 2:10 PM
If you're dreading having to tell the police that your gun was stolen though, how about ask them if their chief would have issued you a carry license? If you're in the high populated counties the answer is most likely "no," so there you go. That's why it was unattended in the car, due to their department policy.

+1000 - I do the same thing. Stupid LEO's won't issue me a license to carry, so if I want to follow the law, I must leave a gun in the car (and the office, and the house) sometimes. They should be apologizing to me for this crappy situation, not the other way around. I'd be delighted to just keep a gun on me 24/7 and just keep extra ammo in the car.

Anchors
08-18-2011, 2:12 PM
I don't see a problem with it. I would do it with a really inexpensive firearm that you have no emotional investment in though and be prepared to cut your loses if it is gone.

Another thing to note: some kid breaking into your car looking for drugs/cash might see a gun and decide he picked the wrong car. Stealing a firearm can get you a ten year federal prison sentence. Where as breaking into a car and stealing an iPod is a slap on the wrist in comparison.

I don't have to explain myself to anyone. I'm the victim here, my car was clearly broken into, if I had a carry license, I would have had it on my person and thus not available to steal.
That is all I would care to say.

jwkincal
08-18-2011, 2:13 PM
I do believe the post office thing that the OP mentioned is an issue...

blakdawg
08-18-2011, 2:14 PM
That being said, I live in San Francisco so the odds of getting a window broken and the whole car ransacked is pretty high, even in good neighborhoods. I never leave anything I'm even slightly attached to in the vehicle...and I have a locked secure garage here.

I'd hate to have to:
A: Explain to the police that some criminal just armed himself with something of mine.

Does SFPD even interact in person with the victims of car breakins? I have not had the pleasure of having my car broken into in SF (try very hard not to drive there, and if I do I keep the interior totally empty) but in Oakland, I used to have to beg for them to send me a form in the mail I could fill out to make an insurance claim.

Many big city police departments don't want to waste an officer's time taking a report for a crime that will never be solved; if solved, will never be prosecuted; and if prosecuted, won't result in an significant sanction to the perp.

San Jose PD finally created a web form that will take a report over the Internet and issue a report number that can be used for an insurance claim.

Cutest
08-18-2011, 2:14 PM
as convoluted as California legislators are...don't be surprised at how they would try to turn it around on you if some one rips you off. you know...make you out to be the bad guy for having a firearm in your vehicle...:(

I find this kind of dumb and unlikely. Though not impossible which is why I had some doubts in the first place. What about your home. Are you really gonna keep all your guns in a vault all the time cause you fear a home burglary.

vantec08
08-18-2011, 2:17 PM
I find this kind of dumb and unlikely. Though not impossible which is why I had some doubts in the first place. What about your home. Are you really gonna keep all your guns in a vault all the time cause you fear a home burglary.

I find it absolutely enlightened and likely, and find further any other interpretation to not be realistic.

Vacaville
08-18-2011, 2:18 PM
The problem I see here is that if you leave anything of value in a car 24/7, it will probably eventually be ripped off. I'm a musician and I wouldn't leave my equipment in my trunk for any extended period of time. Why would you leave a firearm? Not only is it valuable, like my music equipment, but it can be used to harm someone too. As firearms owners we do bear some responsibility in insuring that our guns don't end up in the wrong hands. If you've been on the Earth for a while and haven't had anything stolen yet, consider yourself lucky. It happens. In some areas, very frequently.

gunn
08-18-2011, 2:22 PM
I am the same way. After having a vehicle stolen once, and another one broken into.....I just dont make a habit of leaving anything of any value in my car.

I never never leave bags, backpacks or anything like that visible when it's parked, even if there is nothing valuable in them, cuz thieves will think their might be. Dont even leave visible change in my cupholders. So if someone looks in my car, all the see is seats and floor mats. Even XM receiver and stereo face plate go in the glovebox when parked so they are not visible.

When transporting anything of value, it doesn't stay in the car any longer than neccesary. The most expensive thing that gets left in my car all the time is a portable tool set I got at Home Depot for $99.

I agree with you. Addicts in SF will bust windows very opportunistically -- and they could care less if the $3 in pocket change they get from you will cost you $100 to replace the window.

I leave NOTHING in my car visible as well -- and as long as I live in SF, I will never buy an aftermarket stereo deck. In my last commuter car, I've had vermin bust my window out just to see if the faceplate was in the glove box.

That's the price you pay for living in SF.
-g

donw
08-18-2011, 2:24 PM
I find this kind of dumb and unlikely. Though not impossible which is why I had some doubts in the first place. What about your home. Are you really gonna keep all your guns in a vault all the time cause you fear a home burglary.

have you ever read some of the laws posted on the walls of gun shops? "You may be responsible if a minor gets possession of your firearm...." etc...

why do they now require an affidavit from you when purchasing a firearm that you have a safe and want the make and model of it? or require you purchase a locking device at the time of purchase? why do they require a HSC for the purchase of a handgun?

ALL those issues are directly related to YOUR storage of firearms.

Vacaville
08-18-2011, 2:25 PM
I agree with you. Addicts in SF will bust windows very opportunistically -- and they could care less if the $3 in pocket change they get from you will cost you $100 to replace the window.

I leave NOTHING in my car visible as well -- and as long as I live in SF, I will never buy an aftermarket stereo deck. In my last commuter car, I've had vermin bust my window out just to see if the faceplate was in the glove box.

That's the price you pay for living in SF.
-g

Funny you said that, because I went with a friend to a concert at the Warfield a few years back and someone broke into his car by breaking out a window. Guess what they took? $3.00 in change!

gunn
08-18-2011, 2:25 PM
Does SFPD even interact in person with the victims of car breakins? I have not had the pleasure of having my car broken into in SF (try very hard not to drive there, and if I do I keep the interior totally empty) but in Oakland, I used to have to beg for them to send me a form in the mail I could fill out to make an insurance claim.

Many big city police departments don't want to waste an officer's time taking a report for a crime that will never be solved; if solved, will never be prosecuted; and if prosecuted, won't result in an significant sanction to the perp.

San Jose PD finally created a web form that will take a report over the Internet and issue a report number that can be used for an insurance claim.

SF makes it very convenient to report vehicular break ins -- it's all done online; after all, no action will be taken on their part.

-g

Crom
08-18-2011, 2:28 PM
Yes you can do it. Stay off school and college grounds / campuses. Use a locking metal container and chain it to bolt that is anchored to the frame of your car.

Anchors
08-18-2011, 2:51 PM
Not only is it valuable, like my music equipment, but it can be used to harm someone too. As firearms owners we do bear some responsibility in insuring that our guns don't end up in the wrong hands.
I'm not going to change my lifestyle based on what some criminal might do. That is just playing into the anti's game. The gun isn't hurting anyone, the guy intent on shooting people can get a gun if he really wants one and if he was out looking for one, cars in San Francisco would be the last place I would look.

have you ever read some of the laws posted on the walls of gun shops? "You may be responsible if a minor gets possession of your firearm...." etc...

why do they now require an affidavit from you when purchasing a firearm that you have a safe and want the make and model of it? or require you purchase a locking device at the time of purchase? why do they require a HSC for the purchase of a handgun?

ALL those issues are directly related to YOUR storage of firearms.

Yes, except that locked in a trunk and unloaded is secure. You are not responsible is someone breaks into your secure container, loads your firearm, and does anything with it.
You are not in the bad in that situation.

Paul S
08-18-2011, 2:51 PM
I got mine locked and unloaded in my trunk tucked away unseen. Any foreseeable problems with this or any places to avoid? Maybe parking lots of post offices, etc? Please help the law is complex beyond belief.

I WILL NOT leave a firearm unattended in my vehicles. Auto theft is common, quick and widespread. Enuff said.

Librarian
08-18-2011, 2:56 PM
have you ever read some of the laws posted on the walls of gun shops? "You may be responsible if a minor gets possession of your firearm...." etc...

why do they now require an affidavit from you when purchasing a firearm that you have a safe and want the make and model of it? or require you purchase a locking device at the time of purchase? why do they require a HSC for the purchase of a handgun?

ALL those issues are directly related to YOUR storage of firearms.

The HSC is related to storage? It's another silly law, but anyway...

There's no requirement that anyone actually use safes/lock boxes/locks. The lock/safe requirement dates from 2000.

djleisure
08-18-2011, 3:04 PM
Another thing to note: some kid breaking into your car looking for drugs/cash might see a gun and decide he picked the wrong car. Stealing a firearm can get you a ten year federal prison sentence. Where as breaking into a car and stealing an iPod is a slap on the wrist in comparison.

Exactly, but I don't expect some dipsh*t punk to be thinking about that at the time of breaking into my vehicle. So, here's my setup, for anyone that gives a damn: I have a thickly laminated card (3x5 card) securely and prominently attached to the shotgun lock that simply states: "Stealing this firearm is a felony, you will go to prison. Instead, take this $100 and walk away." I have a $100 bill taped to the laminated card that can be pulled off with a little effort. Now, I mention the "with a little effort" part, because it will require the punk to grab the 3x5 card and pull the bill off. Now, regardless of whether he steals my gun and takes the $100 or just takes the $100 I have his fingerprints on the laminated card. This also is a great way for me to store some emergency money in the vehicle - win, win, I say.

Anchors
08-18-2011, 3:09 PM
Exactly, but I don't expect some dipsh*t punk to be thinking about that at the time of breaking into my vehicle. So, here's my setup, for anyone that gives a damn: I have a thickly laminated card (3x5 card) securely and prominently attached to the shotgun lock that simply states: "Stealing this firearm is a felony, you will go to prison. Instead, take this $100 and walk away." I have a $100 bill taped to the laminated card that can be pulled off with a little effort. Now, I mention the "with a little effort" part, because it will require the punk to grab the 3x5 card and pull the bill off. Now, regardless of whether he steals my gun and takes the $100 or just takes the $100 I have his fingerprints on the laminated card. This also is a great way for me to store some emergency money in the vehicle - win, win, I say.

haha a bit extreme, but I like it.
There is always the change that he takes the whole thing.
I would change the card, because a felony is just one year in state prison or more.
But ten years sound awfully bad even to a hardened criminal.

djleisure
08-18-2011, 3:16 PM
haha a bit extreme, but I like it.
There is always the change that he takes the whole thing.
I would change the card, because a felony is just one year in state prison or more.
But ten years sound awfully bad even to a hardened criminal.
That's a good point, for the same reason that they won't be thinking about it being a felony it would be best to really lay it on the table in very simple terms. I can always print and relaminate a new one - I'll have to think of the most brief, impactful way of stating the 10 years... Oh and yeah, they could take the whole thing, but it's triple-laminated and held on by a ziptie, so they would have to make a concerted effort and I don't think it would occur to them that someone is subtly taking their fingerprints... but ya never know.

blakdawg
08-18-2011, 5:17 PM
One nice thing about a long gun as a trunk gun is that it's a lot more conspicuous for the thief to carry around - a handgun disappears nicely into the backpack/briefcase they steal from you, but a long gun is tougher. Unless you leave them a guitar case.

Anchors
08-18-2011, 5:47 PM
One nice thing about a long gun as a trunk gun is that it's a lot more conspicuous for the thief to carry around - a handgun disappears nicely into the backpack/briefcase they steal from you, but a long gun is tougher. Unless you leave them a guitar case.

My AR and AK cases are small guitar cases haha.

Off-topic:
Your sigline rules, especially for people that thing only rich, white people own guns (which obviously isn't true judging by the rich diversity on CalGuns).

G60
08-18-2011, 6:27 PM
Nope.

Ask me how I know. :(

GrizzlyGuy
08-18-2011, 6:46 PM
Storing a gun in your car 24/7 is legal for a long gun, but (arguably) not legal for a handgun. While the gun is in your car, you would be using the 12026.1 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html) exemption. However, that exemption only applies to "transporting or carrying". There are times in which you are doing neither if you are storing the gun in the car 24/7:

(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm...

While driving around and actually transporting your gun (vs. storing it), see here: Where/when are some places/times that I CAN NOT HAVE A FIREARM? (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Where.2Fwhen_are_some_places.2Ftimes_that_I_CA N_NOT_HAVE_A_FIREARM.3F)

JohnJW
08-19-2011, 12:13 AM
When I was younger, more paranoid:), and drive more than 200 miles from home, I used to travel with a handgun locked in a gun case, in the trunk of the car. Once I get to my destination, if I need to be away from my car for an extended period of time, I'll strip the gun and just take the frame with me, which was easy to do with a sig.

I figure if I get stopped, it's only a frame in my backpack. I thought about using another gun case to lock the frame before placing it into my backpack, but never go around to it. Luckily I never had to explain my reasons.

Ron-Solo
08-19-2011, 12:19 AM
I'd just feel personally responsible for having given some jerkoff access to a firearm.
I should rephrase that to say,

"I would dread having to tell LEOs that I just armed a criminal because I couldn't be bothered to keep my gear secure."

I'd feel even worse if it got used on someone later.

This sums it up pretty nicely. Kind of seems lazy to me to leave a gun in the car.

blakdawg
08-19-2011, 1:14 AM
Pretty much every parked police car I walk past has one or more firearms in plain view, unattended. There's a lock on them but I don't know how secure it is - my impression is it's not perfect, nor always used.

If the cops think it's safe (enough) to leave firearms in their cars, why would it be different for the rest of us? It's not just a couple of crazy rogue cops doing this, as far as I can tell it's standard policy nationwide.

The Anaheim chief of police has lost control of his gun twice. http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2009/07/07/anaheim-police-chiefs-gun-disappears-twice/25495/ The Orange County DA recently lost a gun that was apparently an illegal loan from a colleague. http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2011/04/da-tony-rackauckas-gun.php And in the past 2 years, nine guns have been lost/stolen from Orange County police agencies: http://taxdollars.ocregister.com/2009/08/31/has-your-citys-police-department-lost-a-gun-final-tally-of-lost-service-weapons/33193/.

My point here isn't that those cops are screwups (although I do wonder a little about the Anaheim chief) but that LEO's don't let the fear of losing a gun or potential misuse dissuade them from keeping guns in their homes and cars if they think they're going to need them. So I don't think ordinary people should feel bad about that, or take any guff from LEO's if a gun is stolen, if at least basic steps were taken to keep it secure.

unusedusername
08-19-2011, 3:05 AM
As a practical matter, if you are storing ammo in your car make sure that you take it out during the middle of summer if you live in southern california and it is sunny and your car is outside all day.

Ammo cooks off starting at around 275 degrees. ...

socalocalypse
08-19-2011, 4:36 AM
I asked a simliar question a while back. IIRC the consensus was it can be done but be wary of school zones, post offices, etc etc, plus of course the people frightened of break in.

I've been watching youtube vids of the LA riots tonight. I couldn't help but think how some of those people getting their asses kicked, stomped, and bricks thrown at their head, would have fared much differently if they'd just had any sort of firearm.

I've considered keeping a cheap pistol in the trunk like a phoenix HP22 for around $150, a NAA .22 revolver for around $200, a Ruger P95 used for around $300, or a marlin 795 .22 rifle for $155 after rebate OTD.

Each one has its foibles, but that's my list I've considered.

A locked hard sided case is necessary for legality to transport between your car and your apartment for the pistols.

I always keep targets in my gun cases so I don't forget when I get to the range and also it may be easier to prove to a police officer/judge that I'm coming to/from a range.

I wouldn't keep a new glock in the trunk, but I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over having a $150 gun stolen.

I'm more comfortable 'risking' a loss of a cheap gun vs not having one when I need it.

Everybody has an opinion, this one is mine. Good luck whatever you do.

edit: the book how to own a firearm in ca and stay out of jail is a good read and valuable fwiw

Cutest
08-19-2011, 10:02 AM
A locked hard sided case is necessary for legality to transport between your car and your apartment for the pistols.

Is it necessary to be hard sided? What about Glock bags or backpacks. People have been LUCCing those. Should be good in the car too?

Librarian
08-19-2011, 11:49 AM
Is it necessary to be hard sided? What about Glock bags or backpacks. People have been LUCCing those. Should be good in the car too?

No, hard sided is not required for CA transport; lockable and prevents manipulation of the gun (i.e. firing!) while in the case.

socalocalypse
08-19-2011, 1:10 PM
Librarian-I was referring specifically to locked hardcase transporting the pistol from my apartment to my vehicle.

A house is a different story.

As I understsnd it a locked softcase can be ok too if a lot of nitpicky conditions are met, but I don't need the headache.

I guess I should have said a locked hardcase is what I use to transp to/from my apt to car to avoid any legal questions about the softcase being locked properly and not able to manipulate the weapon through the case etc. etc.

Being a paranoid, ill no longer use a softcase for pistols in the trunk for any reason because I'm afraid the rear seats maybe fold down or I have a ski pass through or something and it could be argued they're no longer in a locked container, then ill have those softcase issues potentially. It could easily happen if I use a rental, ride with a friend, wifes car,weekend car etc. Actually I don't even know if my daily car has a ski pass thru or fold seats, I never looked.

Or what if I want to show my friend a pistol on the way home from the range-ive done it a few times-and I want to be sure I'm legal walking between the car on the street and my friends house.

Like I said I'm a paranoid. I didn't mean to give inaccurate advice or anything. I just wouldn't want someone to walk around like I did thinking my softcase with a lock through the zipper pull tags and not secured to a ring on the case was rock solid legal for apt-car xfer when it apparently may not be.

That's too much for me to think aboiut or type again, so I use the hardcase.

Ymmv, I'm no expert.

Thanks for your help as always!