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oaklander
08-18-2011, 3:37 AM
As most of you know, the Pink Pistols is a gun group for gay folks. I think the "politically-correct" way to say it is:

"[They] are dedicated to the legal, safe, and responsible use of firearms for self-defense of the sexual-minority community. [They] no longer believe it is the right of those who hate and fear gay, lesbian, bi, trans, or polyamorous persons to use [them] as targets for their rage. Self-defense is [their] RIGHT."

They are way cool, and I know a bunch of them. So they are not going to care that I didn't use the exact right phrase in my first sentence.

The point is that they are doing good work. If you think it's a a pain in the butt to be a gun owner in CA, imagine being a gay gun owner. The ones I have met are as tough as nails. Not in the stupid Rambo way that any douche with access to steroids can be, but in the "mentally tough" way that old war veterans are.

Anyways, I don't want folks to come into this thread and start complaining about penis swinging at gay pride parades. This is not them. The guys and gals, and trans-gendered folks are the real deal - and they are our allies. End of story. We support them, and they support us.

I just now remembered that they have a Facebook "group" page. It only has about 600 or so members, and I would like to see it have more members. We all like members, just ask Andrew Mendez!!!

Please click below and ask to join. I will join you to them, and I will make you a member!!!

http://on.fb.me/qo2ELO (I shortened the link because Facebook links are too long to render properly on some mobile devices. I'm nice like that, Andrew Mendez.)

:D

Slim///
08-18-2011, 4:12 AM
Request sent :cool:

Funtimes
08-18-2011, 6:36 AM
I wish I could get these guys to write a letter to one of our really anti-reps. He is super supportive of the LGBT community, and it would probably help so much if we could tone down this guy's anti-rkba stance.

lgm118icbm
08-18-2011, 6:36 AM
How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 6:47 AM
How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

... SIGH ...

oaklander
08-18-2011, 6:50 AM
How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

It does not, and that is my point. We are all rights people here. Please do not make me embarrass you in front of your "tea party" friends, in public, like this.

I *toy* with people like you.

Havoc70
08-18-2011, 6:53 AM
It does not, and that is my point. We are all rights people here. Please do not make me embarrass you in front of your "tea party" friends, in public, like this.

I *toy* with people like you.

Do it anyway, Oak. I need a good laugh today.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 6:55 AM
Do it anyway, Oak. I need a good laugh today.

LOL, I should really be working!!! And me and Sierra have to go to post office and mail out some t-shirts some time today. . . I promised her that I would not amuse myself by ant-burning folks here, at least for a while. . .

:cool:

ALSO - PM me. There is an event happening this weekend that you might be interested in, if you do not already know about it. . .

vintagearms
08-18-2011, 6:57 AM
request sent...

exklusve
08-18-2011, 7:18 AM
It does not, and that is my point. We are all rights people here. Please do not make me embarrass you in front of your "tea party" friends, in public, like this.

I *toy* with people like you.

Total win.



Request sent.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 7:18 AM
I support the pink pistols and think that we should welcome all who would advocated for 2A rights.

However I fail to see how being gay makes it harder to own guns. I have never seen that question on the dros paperwork.

And I am a conservative libertarian. To threaten me in front of my "tea Party friends" is not truly possible, since there is no such thing as the tea party, just a bunch of pissed of white racists.

Oaklander you get to be more and more insulting and arrogant by the day. This place has sure gone down hill once AR15 and Pullnshoot got booted. The elitist attitude around here seems to be contagious. Soon we will be fighting for CCW for only those that agree with the board....

CSACANNONEER
08-18-2011, 7:24 AM
As We support them, and they support us.



Sorry Oak, I have to disagree with the statement above. I don't see any "us" or "them" regarding 2A rights. All I see is "WE". We are all in this together as gun owners. WE need to support ALL gun owners and 2A supporters period.

lgm118icbm
08-18-2011, 7:25 AM
It does not, and that is my point. We are all rights people here. Please do not make me embarrass you in front of your "tea party" friends, in public, like this.

I *toy* with people like you.


Please do not be rude.

If I somehow offended you, I apologize. I was trying to ask a legitimate question. I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

CSACANNONEER
08-18-2011, 7:25 AM
I *toy* with people like you.

Is this were "Pinky" comes into play?:p

CSACANNONEER
08-18-2011, 7:27 AM
Please do not be rude.

If I somehow offended you, I apologize. I was trying to ask a legitimate question. I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

Hey, I think Oak just read your post wrong. I hope you were basically stating the same feelings I stated about Oak's "us" and "them" mentality.

lgm118icbm
08-18-2011, 7:43 AM
Hey, I think Oak just read your post wrong. I hope you were basically stating the same feelings I stated about Oak's "us" and "them" mentality.

I don't know if I would even go that far. I don't really see any pro-gun related topic as an "us" or "them" especially in regards to pink pistols. I don't even know who they are or what they represent.

I was just saying that for me, gun related activities are completely independent of any sexual orientation so I was confused why there would be a group that specifically co-mingles the two. I'm sure there must be a good motivation but I was just asking for some light on the subject.

If the general gun owning public (myself included) somehow alienates a subgroup, maybe through a bit of understanding, we can all play nice and enjoy guns together. :)

G60
08-18-2011, 7:45 AM
I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

How do you feel about a ladies' shooting club or class? I don't think you're as much curious, as you may be uncomfortable with the LGBT community, as i doubt you, or anyone would ask "how does gender relate to gun ownership?" if they were asked to support or build bridges with one of the many ladies' shooting clubs.

It's a place for a group of people who may be uncomfortable without support, or who traditionally may have not been taken seriously (or worse) to learn responsible firearms practices, interact with others, and most importantly, spread the word around.

What it all really comes down to, is like it or not, and whether you are or not, traditionally, many gun owners are not comfortable, and even downright hostile to LGBT people.

Funtimes
08-18-2011, 7:47 AM
Please do not be rude.

If I somehow offended you, I apologize. I was trying to ask a legitimate question. I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

They are commonly targeted for violence as a minority; their movement is very LOUD; many of them are ACTIVE voters; if you can get loud, minorities, who vote on your side = win.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 7:54 AM
How do you feel about a ladies' shooting club or class? I don't think you're as much curious, as you may be uncomfortable with the LGBT community, as i doubt you, or anyone would ask "how does gender relate to gun ownership?" i

I fail to see how his question lead you to believe he is a homophobe.


That makes as much sense as Jessie Jackson saying I am a racist just because i got mugged by a black man...

AEC1
08-18-2011, 7:54 AM
They are commonly targeted for violence as a minority; their movement is very LOUD; many of them are ACTIVE voters; if you can get loud, minorities, who vote on your side = win.

true that...

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 7:56 AM
How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

A "sexual preference" is a position while in bed. I will not go into more detail out is respect for the mods, but you need to use proper nomenclature when referencing people like myself.

"preference" is a dog whistling code word for "it's a choice". No amount of therapy is going to change me. It's disrespectful to me personally, and they still have people in california state hospital system who are elderly and were forcibly lobotomized 50 years ago because they thought it was a "preference".

Maestro Pistolero
08-18-2011, 8:00 AM
I was just saying that for me, gun related activities are completely independent of any sexual orientation so I was confused why there would be a group that specifically co-mingles the two.
Fair question. I'll take a swing at this.


1. They are a group of individuals who have been such specific targets of violence there's even a name for it.

2. As a group, it is a community that tends to swing far left on most issues and so their support for gun rights is unexpected and noteworthy. Their support for gun rights highlights common ground between otherwise disparate groups of activists.

3. Our support of them smashes into smithereens the stereotype of the redneck, anti-gay gun owner.

I could go on, but I'll leave room for others to chime in.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:01 AM
A "sexual preference" is a position while in bed. I will not go into more detail out is respect for the mods, but you need to use proper nomenclature when referencing people like myself.

"preference" is a dog whistling code word for "it's a choice". No amount of therapy is going to change me. It's disrespectful to me personally, and they still have people in california state hospital system who are elderly and were forcibly lobotomized 50 years ago because they thought it was a "preference".

Gray, I never thought about that term as being Offensive. I learned something today...

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 8:05 AM
I fail to see how his question lead you to believe he is a homophobe.

"preference".

One more thing. Homophobia is a misused word. "fear of gays", but this has expanded to meanings to anything against gays, wrongly. It's applied to supremacy issues, not fear.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:06 AM
Sorry Oak, I have to disagree with the statement above. I don't see any "us" or "them" regarding 2A rights. All I see is "WE". We are all in this together as gun owners. WE need to support ALL gun owners and 2A supporters period.

Like!

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:07 AM
I do my best.

Oaklander you get to be more and more insulting and arrogant by the day.

Maestro Pistolero
08-18-2011, 8:08 AM
"preference".

One more thing. Homophobia is a misused word. "fear of gays", but this has expanded to meanings to anything against gays, wrongly. It's applied to supremacy issues, not fear.

PM sent.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:12 AM
Please do not be rude.

If I somehow offended you, I apologize. I was trying to ask a legitimate question. I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

Sorry if I was snippy. I get angry because this issue gets beaten to death every time it comes up. It almost does not matter what people *think* - what matters is what people "do."

Our brothers and sisters in TPP show up, at events, and risk real physical danger to themselves. I find this much more brave than certain folks here who do nothing but post how much they don't like one person, or another.

It does not matter to me who likes me, or who thinks I am rude. What matters is that we get the work done. That is all I care about. Getting the work done.

I spent 2000 hours (yes, that is not an exaggeration) last year on unpaid gun rights stuff. At what my day job bills me at, this is about $800,000 of free labor. I don't get nearly that much, but the point is that *I* work hard, and our companions in TPP work hard too.

Next time I see a post from some person who does nothing but ***** and moan, I am going to strangle my keyboard.

Sorry if I offended any teaparty folks. I support their cause, they just need to learn politics. . .

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 8:12 AM
I support the pink pistols and think that we should welcome all who would advocated for 2A rights.

However I fail to see how being gay makes it harder to own guns. I have never seen that question on the dros paperwork.

And I am a conservative libertarian. To threaten me in front of my "tea Party friends" is not truly possible, since there is no such thing as the tea party, just a bunch of pissed of white racists.

Oaklander you get to be more and more insulting and arrogant by the day. This place has sure gone down hill once AR15 and Pullnshoot got booted. The elitist attitude around here seems to be contagious. Soon we will be fighting for CCW for only those that agree with the board....

The LGBT community faces real threats of harm several times over that of the typical 'straight' community and is restricted with firearms rights just the same as the non-LGBT communities. The main difference being that LGBT has a tremendous pull in political power right now and curiously enough, many politicians who are avidly pro-LGBT are rabidly anti-gun...the Pink Pistols exist to bridge the divide that you're either "LGBT gun-grabbing democrat" or "anti-gay pro-gun republican". It's difficult for everyone to acquire/posses firearms legally, it's political suicide for pro-LGBT politicians to tell their gay community they're not good enough to defend themselves, ergo, it's easier for the 2A restrictions to be lifted.

As for "just a bunch of pissed off white racists" you couldn't be more wrong or polarizing; you're correct, elitism is contagious and you're apparently infected. Speaking of being wrong, Pullnshoot is one of a few hand-selected volunteers helping me with a CGF-derived project even though he's permabanned from the forum...that's not to say everyone that gets banned for breaking forum policy gets to volunteer for CGF but to point out how wrong you are that 'CGN just bans people that disagree with CGF'.

Looks like you're in Lemoore, I'm frequently in Hanford, we should meet up and have some coffee sometime and we can discuss this or anything else in more detail.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:14 AM
"preference".

One more thing. Homophobia is a misused word. "fear of gays", but this has expanded to meanings to anything against gays, wrongly. It's applied to supremacy issues, not fear.

I myself thought that the term Preference was the currently accepted Politically correct term these days. His use of it nor mine should be not be cause for charges of Homophobia. I did see that Homophobia seems to not be the right word either, I don't care anymore. I am sick and tired of stressing over using the right word to not offend people. When it comes down to it actions are 10000% percent what matters. If my attempt to be PC offends you then I don't give a rats rear end, GET OVER IT!!! I am tired of this PC crap!!!

creekside
08-18-2011, 8:15 AM
Please do not be rude.

If I somehow offended you, I apologize. I was trying to ask a legitimate question. I was just curious as to the relationship between sexual preference and guns or why you would have a group that focuses on two, seemingly (to me) unrelated issues.

I'll take this one up, setting aside the 'preference' vs. 'orientation' side of the discussion as completely unrelated.

The relationship is through self-defense. All else being equal, being a gay man or a lesbian or bisexual or transgender (either way) or genderqueer (including for this purpose asexuals) substantially increases one's risk of being:

-- mugged on the street
-- battered in the home
-- raped anywhere
-- murdered anywhere
-- ignored or even re-victimized by police when one reports that a crime has been committed
-- the victim of a random or a targeted hate crime

The Pink Pistols believe that "armed gays don't get bashed."

Self defense is a human right. A person's sexual orientation, or preference if you prefer, does not make them any less of a human being. Human beings have the natural right to defend themselves, and a necessary tool to exercise that right in this day and age is a firearm.

This means that gays and other LBTQA folks should in self defense:

-- own firearms
-- be safe with firearms
-- train with firearms
-- have the right to possess firearms:
--- in the home
--- in motor vehicles
--- in the course of daily life

The same holds true for everyone else not convicted of a crime by a jury of their peers. Everyone has the right to self defense, but the groups I've named _need_ that right. It can literally be life and death.

When I marched with the Pink Pistols, I carried a sign that said "What's In Your Night Stand?"

This was a reference that many people in the crowd got -- first to the idea that many gay gun owners feel, ironically enough, that they must be 'in the closet' about their firearms ownership.

Second, many people but especially Libertarians feel that the government really has no business telling people what they can and can't have in their night stand. Often enough this is sex toys, which is where the 'waving around' issue comes from, so to speak. However, this is an appeal to those who might not be comfortable with guns on the street but get the idea that guns in the home prevent burglaries against everyone.

There is, especially among liberals, a hypocritical segment of gun owners (whether legal or not, they don't care) which believes that banning guns further improves their own safety. These are the people who have politically connected CCWs where available but favor gun bans for the little people such as you and me. They see "What's In Your Night Stand?" and wince, because they know, and I know . . . and they really don't want anyone else to know about their hypocrisy and lack of faith in their fellow human beings.

One chant I've heard at Gay Pride is "Marriage License? Carry License?" This is another natural point of alliance, which I will not belabor here as it is likely to turn off-topic in a hurry.

Note that I don't speak 'for' the Pink Pistols but I'm proud to call myself a member.

Here's a couple links for a little more background:

- http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-02-03/bay-area/17361824_1_gwen-patton-gay-man-pistols

- http://www.pinkpistols.org/

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:16 AM
I myself thought that the term Preference was the currently accepted Politically correct term these days. His use of it nor mine should be not be cause for charges of Homophobia. I did see that Homophobia seems to not be the right word either, I don't care anymore. I am sick and tired of stressing over using the right word to not offend people. When it comes down to it actions are 10000% percent what matters. If my attempt to be PC offends you then I don't give a rats rear end, GET OVER IT!!! I am tired of this PC crap!!!

You and I actually AGREE on the PC stuff, AND on the "action" stuff.

NOW - you are essentially anonymous. You have 4 "friends" here after 3 years. What, exactly, do you "do" to help our rights - other than pick fights with people like me?

Do you "do" anything? (And writing a check is not a "do"). . .

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:16 AM
The LGBT community faces real threats of harm several times over that of the typical 'straight' community and is restricted with firearms rights just the same as the non-LGBT communities. The main difference being that LGBT has a tremendous pull in political power right now and curiously enough, many politicians who are avidly pro-LGBT are rabidly anti-gun...the Pink Pistols exist to bridge the divide that you're either "LGBT gun-grabbing democrat" or "anti-gay pro-gun republican". It's difficult for everyone to acquire/posses firearms legally, it's political suicide for pro-LGBT politicians to tell their gay community they're not good enough to defend themselves, ergo, it's easier for the 2A restrictions to be lifted.

As for "just a bunch of pissed off white racists" you couldn't be more wrong or polarizing; you're correct, elitism is contagious and you're apparently infected. Speaking of being wrong, Pullnshoot is one of a few hand-selected volunteers helping me with a CGF-derived project even though he's permabanned from the forum...that's not to say everyone that gets banned for breaking forum policy gets to volunteer for CGF but to point out how wrong you are that 'CGN just bans people that disagree with CGF'.

Looks like you're in Lemoore, I'm frequently in Hanford, we should meet up and have some coffee sometime and we can discuss this or anything else in more detail.


I meet you last year with my uncle and cant have nutin good at an applebees.... I just transfered up here from San Diego...

Maestro Pistolero
08-18-2011, 8:19 AM
And I am a conservative libertarian. To threaten me in front of my "tea Party friends" is not truly possible, since there is no such thing as the tea party, just a bunch of pissed of [sic] white racists.

Characterizing everyone who supports the aims of the Tea Party as "pissed off white racists" is definitively bigoted. Now go to your room.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:19 AM
I meet you last year with my uncle and cant have nutin good at an applebees.... I just transfered up here from San Diego...

Well, it is time to get involved in stuff. GM just had a BP out in his neck of the woods, you could have come and helped out or something. The complaining on the forum is just for entertainment. The real work is out in the real world.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:20 AM
Characterizing everyone who supports the aims of the Tea Party as "pissed off white racists" is definitively bigoted. Go to your room.

Agreed. The ones I have met are actually cool, they just are not good at playing nice with the media.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:20 AM
You and I actually AGREE on the PC stuff, AND on the "action" stuff.

NOW - you are essentially anonymous. You have 4 "friends" here after 3 years. What, exactly, do you "do" to help our rights - other than pick fights with people like me?

Do you "do" anything? (And writing a check is not a "do"). . .

No I have lots of Friends. I just don't measure them by weather they check a Friend box on some webpage.

I have not been very active since the UOC got shut off and I had to go on deployment in support of our nations interests. I wonder if 4 deployment in 3 years means I have supported the Constitution?

xrMike
08-18-2011, 8:21 AM
"Polyamorous persons" ???

I'm going to reveal something highly personal here, something I haven't even told my wife in 15+ years of marriage. And that is... I experimented with being polyamorous, way back in my collidge daze... It was a crazy time. Boundries were being broken. Personal and sexual limits, tested. Polyamorism seemed like a natural thing to try, and so I went for it. Some would even say with gusto...

Heck, at one point I was dating 3 girls at the same time!

What it all really comes down to, is like it or not, and whether you are or not, traditionally, many gun owners are not comfortable, and even downright hostile to LGBT people.I bet a larger group of gun owners (like me) really don't CARE about anybody's sexual orientation. Don't mistake our tolerance (but complete lack of interest) for something negative.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:22 AM
Well, it is time to get involved in stuff. GM just had a BP out in his neck of the woods, you could have come and helped out or something. The complaining on the forum is just for entertainment. The real work is out in the real world.

See my other post about the real wold. Have YOU been shoot AT?

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:23 AM
No I have lots of Friends. I just don't measure them by weather they check a Friend box on some webpage.

I have not been very active since the UOC got shut off and I had to go on deployment in support of our nations interests. I wonder if 4 deployment in 3 years means I have supported the Constitution?

Look, I support your service. When I was a kid, I always wondered IF my dad would return from TDY in Vietnam.

But this fight is not won on the internet. 90 percent of what I "do" is not here. Right now, it's 99 percent. Sure, I'm a dick online. It amuses me. Out in the real world, my reputation is the opposite. I do MOST THINGS OUT THERE.

Once you start doing stuff, like with GM, or the other folks out in your area - you will get a different perspective on these issues. They don't parse out as neatly as you think they do.

AndrewMendez
08-18-2011, 8:24 AM
Why must we always have this discussion, anytime the Pink Pistols are brought up?

This is not about being gay, this is not about being straight, this is not about being a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Catholic, Jewish, rich or poor. This is about gun rights.

The more people who vote and understand that gun owners are not just white red necks, the less laws that the CalGuns Foundation, CRPA, SAF, NRA will have to fight.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:26 AM
See my other post about the real wold. Have YOU been shoot AT?

If that is a criteria for being useful here, then we should invite about 1/2 of my neighborhood here in East Oakland!!

The closest I have been is having a 1911 pointed at my head. I was able to talk them out of robbing me. Try that some time. . .

:D

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 8:26 AM
You and I actually AGREE on the PC stuff, AND on the "action" stuff.

NOW - you are essentially anonymous. You have 4 "friends" here after 3 years. What, exactly, do you "do" to help our rights - other than pick fights with people like me?

Do you "do" anything? (And writing a check is not a "do"). . .

Can I have my money back if I am not helping to do anything?

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:26 AM
Why must we always have this discussion, anytime the Pink Pistols are brought up?

This is not about being gay, this is not about being straight, this is not about being a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Catholic, Jewish, rich or poor. This is about gun rights.

The more people who vote and understand that gun owners are not just white red necks, the less laws that the CalGuns Foundation, CRPA, SAF, NRA will have to fight.

ACK!!! I know. . .

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 8:26 AM
Why must we always have this discussion, anytime the Pink Pistols are brought up?

This is not about being gay, this is not about being straight, this is not about being a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Catholic, Jewish, rich or poor. This is about gun rights.

The more people who vote and understand that gun owners are not just white red necks, the less laws that the CalGuns Foundation, CRPA, SAF, NRA will have to fight.

Ooh, um, I may be white and kind of a redneck...crap.

Maestro Pistolero
08-18-2011, 8:28 AM
Do you "do" anything? (And writing a check is not a "do"). . .The hell it isn't. Sorry Oak, you lose me there.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:30 AM
Can I have my money back if I am not helping to do anything?

My point is that writing a check is only part of our obligation as gun owners. We are caretakers of a right.

With that comes a duty to preserve the right.

What happens on these forums is that the message gets confused. Some pimply faced pizza delivery boy makes a nice avatar, and then comes in and spouts misinformation, mostly gleaned from reading blogs (written by other loons). Then folks like me and GM, and AM have to come in and explain what the reality is.

Most folks here do not even "see" reality. What you know is from things you read on the internet. What I am saying is that folks need to get involved, out in reality, and THEN OPINE.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 8:32 AM
The hell it isn't. Sorry Oak, you lose me there.

No, see my later post. The money helps! We NEED THE MONEY.

But we also need bodies. There is a mistaken assumption that there is some huge paid staff doing stuff. There are less than 100 people in California who actually get PAID to do gun rights work. It is actually less than that, but I am not going to say the exact number.

The rest falls on unpaid volunteers.

The fact that we are winning, against literally THOUSANDS of paid government workers is a miracle. BUT - it is due to the dedication of tens-of-thousands of unpaid and passionate volunteers. This is a TRUE GRASSROOTS.

In fact, we are winning precisely because we are passionate. That is something that the opposition does not have, and will never have. You can't be passionate with hate. You can be passionate with love.

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 8:43 AM
My point is that writing a check is only part of our obligation as gun owners. We are caretakers of a right.

With that comes a duty to preserve the right.

What happens on these forums is that the message gets confused. Some pimply faced pizza delivery boy makes a nice avatar, and then comes in and spouts misinformation, mostly gleaned from reading blogs (written by other loons). Then folks like me and GM, and AM have to come in and explain what the reality is.

Most folks here do not even "see" reality. What you know is from things you read on the internet. What I am saying is that folks need to get involved, out in reality, and THEN OPINE.

I appreciate you clarification but still disagree that folks cannot opine without getting involved in reality because that is so arbitrary. What is reality and what needs to be done out in "reality" to give the credentials to opine?

You also seem to be arguing that using a message board is an ineffective or nearly worthless means of furthering the 2nd and yet you even state you use it to dispel misinformation... is that not using a board to further the 2nd?

Arguing aside, I get what you are saying and agree in the altruistic sense but you are walking the line of almost elitism by your line of thinking. Why can't someone just say donating money is a GREAT thing, so is debating online to further 2nd knowledge, but lets take that energy out to the street instead of having a credentials and gold star pissing match.

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 8:46 AM
I meet you last year with my uncle and cant have nutin good at an applebees.... I just transfered up here from San Diego...

Ah yes, I do recall that. You should show up and volunteer for a CGN/CGF event sometime, it's fun stuff.


No I have lots of Friends. I just don't measure them by weather they check a Friend box on some webpage.

I have not been very active since the UOC got shut off and I had to go on deployment in support of our nations interests. I wonder if 4 deployment in 3 years means I have supported the Constitution?

I'm unaware of what you mean by 'UOC got shut off', as are many of the UOC-oriented activists that are volunteering for CRPA/CGN/CGF related efforts. Certain activism aspects of UOC were strongly discouraged as being "great intent, wrong place, wrong time".

I have a great deal of respect for people who serve in the military. That is significantly diminished when one uses it as leverage in a disagreement. Though serving in the military shapes the way you view life and drastically changes how you live, it does not give you a trump card to play when you're in a disagreement.

gmcal
08-18-2011, 8:49 AM
You guys could have saved yourself a lot of trouble if post #22 was instead post #4 or #5. Some people don't know what the pink pistols are and don't know what the correct terms are. I too thought sexual preference was acceptable, but at least now I know.

I clicked on the link and I hope I did it right. I have a fb account but I've never used it.

Oak, what is it that you want to achieve by having people be made members? :)

Uxi
08-18-2011, 8:52 AM
Why must we always have this discussion, anytime the Pink Pistols are brought up?

It would seem to be common-sense that the political demographics of most 2nd Amendment advocates don't correlate with that of most of the "polyamorous" types.

I think "Pink Pistols" would get far better PR around these parts if it was based around hot straight or even lipstick bi/lesbian chics and a different logo/slogan/nick was used for the other sub-categories of it's membership.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this issue, so I'll say no more. :)

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:52 AM
Oak, I have tons of respect for what you and others do for our rights. But to discount others just cause what we do may not be seen here is insulting.

By the way This:



NOW - you are essentially anonymous. You have 4 "friends" here after 3 years. What, exactly, do you "do" to help our rights - other than pick fights with people like me?

Do you "do" anything? (And writing a check is not a "do"). . .

Seems to be in direct conflict with this:


Sure, I'm a dick online. It amuses me. Out in the real world, my reputation is the opposite. I do MOST THINGS OUT THERE.


Why is it not ok for me to call you on stuff I disagree with and ok for you to do the same simply because it amuses you?

So I will end with this. Hi pot, my name is kettle, YOU ARE BLACK!!!


(no this was not meant as a racial slur.....

AEC1
08-18-2011, 8:57 AM
Ah yes, I do recall that. You should show up and volunteer for a CGN/CGF event sometime, it's fun stuff.




I'm unaware of what you mean by 'UOC got shut off', as are many of the UOC-oriented activists that are volunteering for CRPA/CGN/CGF related efforts. Certain activism aspects of UOC were strongly discouraged as being "great intent, wrong place, wrong time".

I have a great deal of respect for people who serve in the military. That is significantly diminished when one uses it as leverage in a disagreement. Though serving in the military shapes the way you view life and drastically changes how you live, it does not give you a trump card to play when you're in a disagreement.

I concur, it was not a trump card, but an answer to the question of what have I done to support the 2A. I sure feel that serving in combat counts as doing something in support of ALL the constitution, and it offends me for someone to tell me I aint doing anything.

Luieburger
08-18-2011, 8:58 AM
I marched in the SF pride parade. Of course I'll join the facebook group.

When is Arming Laramie coming out? ;)

oaklander
08-18-2011, 9:04 AM
Done arguing. I just got off phone with someone from from a large government agency. Later today, I am meeting with a politician. No time for this. Sorry boys.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 9:05 AM
:cool::cool:Done arguing. I just got off phone with someone from from a large government agency. Later today, I am meeting with a politician. No time for this. Sorry boys.

You are cool!!!

Tango-Alpha
08-18-2011, 9:08 AM
That was my thought exactly. If somebody has a preference for that lifestyle, that's their own business. I just don't care to hear about it. Because a minority group happens to embrace an interest, hobby, recreation or anything else that I happen to be involved in, doesn't obligate me to carry their banner for them.

We could have a very long debate over the word "preference" some will argue they were born that way and there's no choice involved. Yet, there are clearly people living the lifestyle who simply choose to be gay and prefer that to being in a heterosexual relationship. So far none of the medical research has proven the existence of a gay gene. My position is....frankly, I don't care what your sexual preference is. I don't self identify myself as being heterosexual, nor do I march in straight parades, have booths at public events spreading my passion for the straight lifestyle. My whole thing is basically this.....look, if you're gay that's fine with me. We can be friends...we can hang out...have a beer together....do whatever activities friends like to do, including shooting. It's just that I'm tired of hearing about the debate everywhere I go.

On that note, I will say that I've come to know many gay people and their partners over the years and some I've become very close friends with. They know me, they know my wife, kids, etc... When I hang out with them as a couple, it's not uncomfortable for me and we always have a great time together. In particular, I know two men who are professionals, in fact they are doctors and have their own practices. They are both very successful and very conservative when it comes to politics, finances and most other social causes, but they happen to be gay. We talk about virtually every subject, except for what happens behind closed doors and frankly it would be inappropriate to discuss that in any setting....homosexual, heterosexual or otherwise.

Lastly, there is a member within our extended family who is gay. For obvious reasons, being that she is family we are around her a lot and understand that she has chosen this lifestyle. She was married previously, had children, got divorced and years later went gay. She doesn't ask the family to rally for her cause, she doesn't expect us to send checks to gay non-profits and she doesn't expect us to embrace her lifestyle or validate the choices she had made.

At the crux of it all, for me personally when I see the gay flag being waved, people marching in parades, people at booths asking for support, I just roll my eyes. For me it's just too much in your face. We've reached a saturation point and speaking for myself, I think there are a lot of folks who are tired of hearing about it everywhere they go. It's like wearing a button on your jacket that tells the world how you like your sex. Imagine walking up to a total stranger and saying, "Hi, I'm George. I like d****" or "Hi. I'm Nancy and I fancy your P****" Nowhere in society but within the gay community does this happen. I just don't see the need to create an awareness or advertise your sexuality.

So in conclusion. Be gay...shoot guns, but please don't bother me with your gay agenda. I'm just not interested. Want to support 2A rights along with me? Great! We can do that together and march together side by side under the same banner for the same cause, but it isn't going to be a rainbow colored flag.

Tango-Alpha


How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 9:11 AM
Done arguing. I just got off phone with someone from from a large government agency. Later today, I am meeting with a politician. No time for this. Sorry boys.

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away...

:p

oaklander
08-18-2011, 9:15 AM
You are cool!!!

Yes, and NOT BLACK - that is my point about seeing reality. . . I am one of the cooler white guys, or at least that's what my neighbors tell me. . .

:D

http://bit.ly/rcdvaR

I don't even think we are arguing anymore. I generally agree with you. . .

OK, now I am really out. The point is that perceptions, based only on what you see online are by definition, wrong - most of the time. . .

That is all I am saying at this point. . .

ETA: knew I would get some pwnage. I am like FedEx, I deliver!!!

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 9:20 AM
Yes, and NOT BLACK - that is my point about seeing reality. . . I am one of the cooler white guys, or at least that's what my neighbors tell me. . .

:D


Now this is the oaklander I don't know but love! :)

Havoc70
08-18-2011, 9:32 AM
The reason I support the pink pistols is simply because I want to assist in destroying stereotypes. Mainly the stereotype that all gun owners are fat, white, ultra conservative, bible toting rednecks who are intolerant of anything outside of their narrow views. Now, I happen to be the first two (though I'm working on #2, down 10 pounds in a month, go me!) and I am a conservative, but I am anything but intolerant (well, I don't tolerate stupid people very well).

So if I can help shatter that myth, then so be it. That and they really are a hella fun group of people to hang out with. Anything we can do to bolster rights by shattering misconceptions is worth doing in my definitely not humble opinion.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 9:33 AM
Now this is the oaklander I don't know but love! :)

I really like just about everyone. But I admit that my sense of humor sucks!

lol

OK, now really gotta stop. . .

;-)

techshot
08-18-2011, 9:41 AM
Request sent, keep up the good work!

Apocalypsenerd
08-18-2011, 9:41 AM
(well, I don't tolerate stupid people very well).



So you don't tolerate anyone then?

dantodd
08-18-2011, 9:48 AM
Good Lord Kids.

if you don't stop bickering I'll turn this forum around RIGHT NOW and no one will get kick the butt of the BoF

creekside
08-18-2011, 9:52 AM
It would seem to be common-sense that the political demographics of most 2nd Amendment advocates don't correlate with that of most of the "polyamorous" types.

I think "Pink Pistols" would get far better PR around these parts if it was based around ... [stereotypes]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, on this issue, so I'll say no more. :)

Another educational opportunity issue.

There are plenty of LGBTQ people who are monogamous. I know a number who are happily married. Some are in same-gender marriages; others are in mixed-gender marriages. A few even an unabashed queer like me needs a dance card to figure out. (One of my favorite buttons reads: "Bi poly switch. Still not sleeping with you.)

There are LGBTQ people all over the political spectrum. Not counting the Log Cabin Republicans and Democrats for the 2nd Amendment, there are more options than the left and right wings of the Demopublicans. There are third parties other than the Libertarians.

We are who we are. Nothing's going to change that. Not even wishful thinking by those looking for unicorns (poly slang for a bisexual woman attracted to couples) or "HBB"s.

ObGunRights: has anyone else heard Leslie Fish's album "Lock and Load (http://therealgunguys.com/blog/2009/07/17/leslie-fish-lock-load/)" with cover art by none other than Oleg Volk (http://www.olegvolk.net/)?

wash
08-18-2011, 9:52 AM
I am ashamed that a bunch of gun owners will put their personal bigotry in front of our more important common goals.

Be single issue.

One reason why the Pink Pistols probably exists is because a few bigoted gun owners is enough to make queer folks feel out of place in other gun groups.

So either quit making "sexual preference" have anything to do with gun rights or else work with the Pink Pistols.

People who have a problem with the Pink Pistols either don't understand how they can help us or they don't care about being effective gun rights activists.

Educate yourselves or get out of the way.

Luieburger
08-18-2011, 9:59 AM
Educate yourselves or get out of the way.

^ This

movie zombie
08-18-2011, 9:59 AM
as regards the original request and Facebook: i don't "do" facebook although i think many groups could take a lesson or two from Pink Pistols re getting past political name calling and getting behind an issue: self-protection.

creekside
08-18-2011, 10:12 AM
What is reality and what needs to be done out in "reality" to give the credentials to opine?

Talk to a lot of people who are not already RKBA supporters. Often special events are a useful place to do this.

Extra points for interacting with stakeholders such as regulatory agency employees, politicians, lobbyists, lawyers, and other notables.

Forums are a useful tool, but don't mistake discussions on a forum for action. These forums are largely "preaching to the choir" and as such not a venue for change in themselves.

If the forum gets you to get up and go do something, then it's useful.

Example:

Confirmation Number: 5GJ29514WM838012T Placed on Aug 18, 2011
Calguns Foundation - General Donation Reference: 0042 $20.00 USD
Total Amount: $20.00 USD

JGarrison
08-18-2011, 10:22 AM
Sure, I'm a dick online.

Have to say, you have definitely proven that in this thread. :rolleyes:

gatesbox
08-18-2011, 10:30 AM
It just makes me sick, that a post in support of Pink Pistols can't make it without the malcontents getting their two cents in.

Point 1.....If you feel the need to voice disagreement, and debate human sexuality than start another post...

Point 2.....It is a misconception that RTKBA is a homogenized group of "us" it may be true in a forum like this, but we all go out into the world, into our jobs, into our neighborhoods, and they do not all look alike... A group like the Pink Pistols is not a segregated group of RTKBA folks who want to seperate themselves from other and sit in the corner, it is about taking the message of 2A support into an otherwise underrepresented population. Heck it could be left handed Jews and it would still be great!

We are not all the same, and we bring our support of 2A wherever we can....end of story...

now where did I put my troll grenades.....

Uxi
08-18-2011, 10:33 AM
Another educational opportunity issue.


Not really. I was just being cheeky with his own verbiage, which is why I put it in quotes. Funny that yet another letter is added to the growing acronym, though.

Stryprod
08-18-2011, 10:34 AM
Talk to a lot of people who are not already RKBA supporters. Often special events are a useful place to do this.

Extra points for interacting with stakeholders such as regulatory agency employees, politicians, lobbyists, lawyers, and other notables.

Forums are a useful tool, but don't mistake discussions on a forum for action. These forums are largely "preaching to the choir" and as such not a venue for change in themselves.

If the forum gets you to get up and go do something, then it's useful.

Example:

Confirmation Number: 5GJ29514WM838012T Placed on Aug 18, 2011
Calguns Foundation - General Donation Reference: 0042 $20.00 USD
Total Amount: $20.00 USD

All great stuff and you speak to what I was saying in that it all plays together. Money, activism, debate, discussion, teaching, etc. No single item trumps the others, is "the best", nor gives you credentials to opine unlike the rest as they are ALL intertwined and reliant on the other. Is a cook any less important than an infantryman on the front lines? (rhetorical question)

We should all give and do what we can in our given capacities knowing and respecting that even just doing something small will always be incalculably better than doing nothing at all.

Ak714
08-18-2011, 10:38 AM
Read half of the 1st page and scan through the 2nd page.....I thought This thread was guns painted pink...!?

AEC1
08-18-2011, 10:49 AM
It just makes me sick, that a post in support of Pink Pistols can't make it without the malcontents getting their two cents in.

Point 1.....If you feel the need to voice disagreement, and debate human sexuality than start another post...

Point 2.....It is a misconception that RTKBA is a homogenized group of "us" it may be true in a forum like this, but we all go out into the world, into our jobs, into our neighborhoods, and they do not all look alike... A group like the Pink Pistols is not a segregated group of RTKBA folks who want to seperate themselves from other and sit in the corner, it is about taking the message of 2A support into an otherwise underrepresented population. Heck it could be left handed Jews and it would still be great!

We are not all the same, and we bring our support of 2A wherever we can....end of story...

now where did I put my troll grenades.....

The very core of the Pink Pistols is that they are a 2 issue orginization, one in support of 2A and one in support of the LGBT (I cant figure out the Q so i wont add it). that in its essense begs for BOTH issues to be discussed. if the gay part of the group was a non issue, then they would just be a gun rights group.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 11:04 AM
Have to say, you have definitely proven that in this thread. :rolleyes:

LOL, yes - but you have played enough video games to know that people do funny things online. Don't you realize that I am the opposite? Go look at my post history, if you do not believe me. I am actually one of the more polite people here. . .

The point that I was making is that people mispercieve things, based on limited information. Then I proved it by pretending to be a penis in a couple of posts. . .

I am actually very nice, in person, and generally - online. Gene calls me the diplomat. Real life is more complex than video games or cars, or other toys. People make snap judgments about things like gays, when many of them have never worked alongside of a gay person in our little fight for our rights here.

I wish HALF the straight Calgunners had the cohones of the gay ones. And driving a large truck, or talking tough online, does not count as cohones.

Tango-Alpha
08-18-2011, 11:07 AM
AEC1 said it perfectly. Thank you.

if the gay part of the group was a non issue, then they would just be a gun rights group.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 11:09 AM
The very core of the Pink Pistols is that they are a 2 issue orginization, one in support of 2A and one in support of the LGBT (I cant figure out the Q so i wont add it). that in its essense begs for BOTH issues to be discussed. if the gay part of the group was a non issue, then they would just be a gun rights group.

You do not understand politics. Don't you see how they are not attackable by the far loony left? Again, Dan Todd, Wash, GM, and the others here are playing Go. Some of you are playing checkers.

Reality is much more complex.

This explains about one percent of what we deal with in CA:

http://cheezburger.com/oaklander/lolz/View/5101754368

And it only applies to NorCal. Please slow down and listen. . .

dantodd
08-18-2011, 11:13 AM
The bigger the tent, the funner the party.

Personally, I'd support the left-handed eunuch arms team if they will support me. Just don't ask me to do that which is required to join!

oaklander
08-18-2011, 11:14 AM
All great stuff and you speak to what I was saying in that it all plays together. Money, activism, debate, discussion, teaching, etc. No single item trumps the others, is "the best", nor gives you credentials to opine unlike the rest as they are ALL intertwined and reliant on the other. Is a cook any less important than an infantryman on the front lines? (rhetorical question)

We should all give and do what we can in our given capacities knowing and respecting that even just doing something small will always be incalculably better than doing nothing at all.

YES! We all work together. If you look at that chart, we are now pulling in folks from all four corners. We previously were only operating in upper right. I really should not get this detailed here, but the way things are done is the result of much thought. In fact, we model things directly on the gay rights movement. Since it has worked in this state very well. We just avoid the mistakes they made, and they work with us to let us know what those mistakes were.

dantodd
08-18-2011, 11:15 AM
http://cheezburger.com/oaklander/lolz/View/5101754368

And it only applies to NorCal. Please slow down and listen. . .

you may have out-venned yourself there Oak. I don't think there is any meaningful overlap of "working poor" and "extremely wealthy"

oaklander
08-18-2011, 11:20 AM
you may have out-venned yourself there Oak. I don't think there is any meaningful overlap of "working poor" and "extremely wealthy"

the working poor disregard laws because they have to, to survive. the extremely wealthy do so, since they think laws do not apply.

BUT, I admit that I made that early this AM. Could not sleep. Spent maybe 1/2 hour on it. Look at my facebook, and look at my theory regarding the red circle. I did not even notice it until after I made the chart. So I am thinking that I might be on to something, etc. . .

Or, could be sleep deprivation. . .

It's a good set of I ching bones, at least. and we need to think in these terms, and look for these patterns, as we move forward with coalition building. . .

creekside
08-18-2011, 11:20 AM
you may have out-venned yourself there Oak. I don't think there is any meaningful overlap of "working poor" and "extremely wealthy"

Yes, and where's the overlap between "working poor" and "rules enforcer" . . .

oaklander
08-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Yes, and where's the overlap between "working poor" and "rules enforcer" . . .

Let's work together to edit this, and think about it. I know for sure some of these are true, just from personal experience. LOL, dont get me started abiut a subgroup I found called Gun Hippies! They are cool, and there were many where I used to live. . .

But I admit, it is subjective. . .

dantodd
08-18-2011, 11:27 AM
I found called Gun Hippies! They are cool, and there were many where I used to live. . .


I know one or two of those. They don't have much regard for laws, including NFA. (No I've never been shooting with them.)

Citizen 14
08-18-2011, 11:33 AM
It saddens me that we must have so much drama in these threads. Request sent

gatesbox
08-18-2011, 11:33 AM
The very core of the Pink Pistols is that they are a 2 issue orginization, one in support of 2A and one in support of the LGBT (I cant figure out the Q so i wont add it). that in its essense begs for BOTH issues to be discussed. if the gay part of the group was a non issue, then they would just be a gun rights group.

I still don't see how this is a problem....The Tea Party, which has been brought up without decent discussion, is both political party and also supports 2A issues....why must they be separate? I am an Episcopalian when I go out in the world I hang out with my Episcopalian friends and sometimes bring up 2A issues, I'd love to have a Purple Pistols group of spiritually inclined 2A supporters...Why not....

And the Q stands for Queer, sometimes added as LGBTQQ Queer and Questioning....Queer has been embraced by some as a label that defies strict definition....

My point....none of us are single issue people...and very few of the groups we belong to are single issue groups.....

wash
08-18-2011, 11:51 AM
I agree that no one is truly single issue but power comes when you get enough people who can hold their nose and stick together.

The people who think "I don't want gay people in my gun rights movement" are wrong.

It's not their movement.

The same goes for any other group of people you don't want.

If it were a bad association like gangs or Mexican drug cartels, we wouldn't cooperate for practical reasons but if a gang member is in court with bogus gun charges against him, we are going to feel the consequences.

Cooperation when it makes sense gives us power, dividing ourselves gives it away.

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 11:58 AM
That was my thought exactly. If somebody has a preference for that lifestyle, that's their own business. I just don't care to hear about it. Because a minority group happens to embrace an interest, hobby, recreation or anything else that I happen to be involved in, doesn't obligate me to carry their banner for them.

We could have a very long debate over the word "preference" some will argue they were born that way and there's no choice involved. Yet, there are clearly people living the lifestyle who simply choose to be gay and prefer that to being in a heterosexual relationship. So far none of the medical research has proven the existence of a gay gene. My position is....frankly, I don't care what your sexual preference is. I don't self identify myself as being heterosexual, nor do I march in straight parades, have booths at public events spreading my passion for the straight lifestyle. My whole thing is basically this.....look, if you're gay that's fine with me. We can be friends...we can hang out...have a beer together....do whatever activities friends like to do, including shooting. It's just that I'm tired of hearing about the debate everywhere I go.

On that note, I will say that I've come to know many gay people and their partners over the years and some I've become very close friends with. They know me, they know my wife, kids, etc... When I hang out with them as a couple, it's not uncomfortable for me and we always have a great time together. In particular, I know two men who are professionals, in fact they are doctors and have their own practices. They are both very successful and very conservative when it comes to politics, finances and most other social causes, but they happen to be gay. We talk about virtually every subject, except for what happens behind closed doors and frankly it would be inappropriate to discuss that in any setting....homosexual, heterosexual or otherwise.

Lastly, there is a member within our extended family who is gay. For obvious reasons, being that she is family we are around her a lot and understand that she has chosen this lifestyle. She was married previously, had children, got divorced and years later went gay. She doesn't ask the family to rally for her cause, she doesn't expect us to send checks to gay non-profits and she doesn't expect us to embrace her lifestyle or validate the choices she had made.

At the crux of it all, for me personally when I see the gay flag being waved, people marching in parades, people at booths asking for support, I just roll my eyes. For me it's just too much in your face. We've reached a saturation point and speaking for myself, I think there are a lot of folks who are tired of hearing about it everywhere they go. It's like wearing a button on your jacket that tells the world how you like your sex. Imagine walking up to a total stranger and saying, "Hi, I'm George. I like d****" or "Hi. I'm Nancy and I fancy your P****" Nowhere in society but within the gay community does this happen. I just don't see the need to create an awareness or advertise your sexuality.

So in conclusion. Be gay...shoot guns, but please don't bother me with your gay agenda. I'm just not interested. Want to support 2A rights along with me? Great! We can do that together and march together side by side under the same banner for the same cause, but it isn't going to be a rainbow colored flag.

Tango-Alpha

Tagged for later editing and response.

pitchbaby
08-18-2011, 12:01 PM
How does sexual preference relate to gun ownership?

Technically it doesn't... but why question the motives of any like minded group of people standing up to defend our gun rights?

AEC1
08-18-2011, 12:15 PM
You do not understand politics. Don't you see how they are not attackable by the far loony left? .

So is it safe to say that you are only exploiting them because of their sexuality? That in itself seems to undermine their entire fight as a human rights organization?

The argument that I don't understand politics is not to good of one. As I am a voter, and have never missed an election. All politics are local. Just because some are willing to dismiss the vast majority because of their fear of a very vocal minority labeling them, as anti anything is a sad statement on the state of our nation.

I do not vote for and elect officials that take a public opinion poll before each vote in congress, or in the case of POTUS, stroke of the pen, I vote for men and women of INTEGRITY that will legislate and govern based upon CONVICTIONS not public opinion polls.

AEC1
08-18-2011, 12:21 PM
And the Q stands for Queer, sometimes added as LGBTQQ Queer and Questioning....Queer has been embraced by some as a label that defies strict definition..


my son was sent home from school last year for using queer last year, it was considered derogatory. I wish that community would make up its mind...


that issue was the final straw, we now homeschool!!!

oaklander
08-18-2011, 12:28 PM
So is it safe to say that you are only exploiting them because of their sexuality? That in itself seems to undermine their entire fight as a human rights organization?

The argument that I don't understand politics is not to good of one. As I am a voter, and have never missed an election. All politics are local. Just because some are willing to dismiss the vast majority because of their fear of a very vocal minority labeling them, as anti anything is a sad statement on the state of our nation.

I do not vote for and elect officials that take a public opinion poll before each vote in congress, or in the case of POTUS, stroke of the pen, I vote for men and women of INTEGRITY that will legislate and govern based upon CONVICTIONS not public opinion polls.

No, they are "exploiting" politicians who get easily confused. There is no control here. I don't even know who runs national. Again, just read, listen, but please do not assume things. If you start meeting people, and attending events, then you will form a more clear picture of how things work.

No group controls any other group. Nor do groups in our coalition exlpoit one another. I have always done pro bono work, and the gun rights movement is the most focused and pure out of all the groups I have volunteered time for.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 12:31 PM
Please just listen. You are now not making sense. It is not even possible to refute you, there is no logic to refute. You are getting angry. We do not work out of anger.

wash
08-18-2011, 12:31 PM
Well, you don't understand politics.

Your vote is wasted unless you vote for a winner and if you think voting is all you need to do to be politically active, that's 100% false.

You have to make sure that there are winners on the ballot that respect gun rights.

That's why Jerry Brown was a better vote than Meg Whitman. He isn't perfect but he is better.

unusedusername
08-18-2011, 12:33 PM
You do not understand politics. Don't you see how they are not attackable by the far loony left?

The pink pistols that I have met are very aware of the unique position they have in local politics in SF and they are using it to the fullest extent that they can :)

I see no difference between a hypothetical tiny woman's defense club and the pink pistols. Both are awesome. In fact, in SF any given pink pistols member is probably more influencial with the city government then I would be, since they already know all the players involved.

This is why our civil rights movement will be stronger if we can keep it single-issue. We need all our friends and being closed minded hinders our progress.

nicki
08-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the support, let me give you some updates on the "Pink Pistols".

We are going through a "shakeup" on the "National Level", nothing hostile, just that Gwen who was running things has "health issues'.

Doug who owns the domain and I are talking and I am in the process of revising the site, it needs major update and that is being done as we speak.

Since it looks like I will be taking over until someone else comes along and offers to step up, I guess that will make me the "Head" of "Pink Pistols".

Since I am not big into titles and I like to spin people's heads, I will give myself the following title:

"Fearless Leader".:43:

The site will be a work in process, right now I just want something up that is good to go.

Many people who are in the Pink Pistols want to stay private, they are non political, so this organization will stick to shooting, socialization etc etc.

Of course since I am a "Political Junkie", I will look to setting up side organizations in the near future. A "foundation" and a "political action" organization kinda modeled after SAF and CCRKBA.

Of course, it is reasonable for gun owners to ask, why should we support any organization whose members are from the LBGT community. What is in it for us?

The answer to that is the following: Overall the LBGT community is very ANTI GUN. They are also very political, they volunteer and donate alot of money to politicians who happen to be anti gun.

While the LBGT community is anti gun, they also tend to not get along well with police agencies, in their view, they feel that the police agencies across the country are hostile to their fundamental rights.

Not being liked by the police presents a problem when your community suffers significantly from "Hate Crime Violence", because after all, who investigates "Hate Crime Violence".

In many ways the "Pink Pistols" is like the "Deacons for Peace and Justice" and even the "Black Panthers".

Unlike them however, we don't have a cultural fear from middle american of a "Gay/Straight civil war".

When I was growing up in the 1960's, my parents and their friends were seriously concerned about an all our "race war". Malcolm X and the Black Panthers scared them.

The Pink Pistols is well suited to operate in "California" because we break the "stereotype" that all gun owners are "red necked bigots".

Yes we have people in the Gay Community who are opposed to our message of armed defense, but then what is their alternative?

"Carry a whistle or cellphone and call for a homophobic police force to come to your rescue".

The Gay Community wants to promote Gay Straight Alliances and that is what we have already been doing and will continue to do.

Overall, we have been getting "POSITIVE MEDIA". How many other gun rights organizations get balanced stories in the press?

The "Pink Pistols" can address many issues that traditional gun organizations will not dare speak and many of you know what I am talking about.

Since I will be taking the lead of the Pink Pistols, California will be where we will regroup, and build models for the rest of the country.

Just as many Gays are closet conservatives, many are also closet gun owners and recently I got info from a "source" that there may be many of them.

If we shift the Gay community from being anti gun to being at least neutral on gun rights, it will devastate our anti rights opponents.

The Pink Pistol model can be used to make inroads into other parts of the political left.

If we can break the stereotype that "gun rights" are a "Conservative only" issue, we will do much to advance not just gun rights, but all rights.

We don't have to like each other, but if we want to live in a "free country" where "our rights" are respected and protected, then we must respect and protect the rights of our fellow Americans, especially the ones we don't like.

The bill of rights is a "package deal". It is a bill of rights, not a bill of needs.
It is a chain and is as strong as it's weakess links.

We have had great support from Calguns in the past, we have "shocked and awed" the pride parades in 3 cities this year and I look forward to 2012.

Each year we grow in size and this year we will be even better.

2012 is starting to shape up into a very interesting political year.

I predict we are going to have massive cultural, social and political shifts because everyone is getting knocked out of their comfort zones.

Nicki

wash
08-18-2011, 12:40 PM
Nicki I vote that you get a Kim Jong Il haircut to go along with your new title of Fearless Leader.

wash
08-18-2011, 12:41 PM
It's got a bull dyke look to it.

Decoligny
08-18-2011, 1:31 PM
"preference".

One more thing. Homophobia is a misused word. "fear of gays", but this has expanded to meanings to anything against gays, wrongly. It's applied to supremacy issues, not fear.

Phobia ("Fo-Be-Ah")is the greek word for fear, and is used at the end of a word. Thus homophobia means someone with a fear of homosexuals.

Miso ("Me-So") is the greek word for hate/extreme distaste, and is used at the front of a word. Thus misohomo (Me-So-Homo) should be the appropriate term to mean someone with a hate of homosexuals.

I highly doubt with that particular pronunciation that the term will catch on widely with those to whom the term would apply. :D

Tango-Alpha
08-18-2011, 2:11 PM
I think a better question that needs to be asked is why must there be a label at all or an affiliation that openly defines a persons sexual preference in order to support 2A rights? Who cares that your gay? Really! Want to support 2A rights? Great! That's something we can do together. How "you like it" is something that is very personal and isn't something that the whole world cares to hear about, nor does it need to be on display. Having said that, I'm glad there are people like my gay doctor friends and others who are interested in and support 2A issues. That being said, we can accomplish the same objective by working shoulder to shoulder under a banner that clearly stands for what we BOTH believe in. e.g....SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) just as one example.

Technically it doesn't... but why question the motives of any like minded group of people standing up to defend our gun rights?

AndrewMendez
08-18-2011, 2:26 PM
I think a better question that needs to be asked is why must there be a label at all or an affiliation that openly defines a persons sexual preference in order to support 2A rights? Who cares that your gay? Really! Want to support 2A rights? Great! That's something we can do together. How "you like it" is something that is very personal and isn't something that the whole world cares to hear about, nor does it need to be on display. Having said that, I'm glad there are people like my gay doctor friends and others who are interested in and support 2A issues. That being said, we can accomplish the same objective by working shoulder to shoulder under a banner that clearly stands for what we BOTH believe in. e.g....SAF (Second Amendment Foundation) just as one example.

I have organized and march in two gay pride parades in Southern California. At both events, we had different people marching with us. I have also read damn near everything on the pink pistols webpage. 1 thing I still have not seen asked anywhere though, was what type of sex they liked or "how you like it."
The pink pistols are not a bunch of sex attics who like 16" dildo's strapped to pink shotguns, they are gun owners that happen to not be so...traditional.

unusedusername
08-18-2011, 2:44 PM
The pink pistols are not a bunch of sex attics who like 16" dildo's strapped to pink shotguns, they are gun owners that happen to not be so...traditional.

Even if they do like non-traditional shotgun attachments would that be any stranger then some of the stuff put out by NCstar?

:p

five.five-six
08-18-2011, 2:47 PM
And I am a conservative libertarian. To threaten me in front of my "tea Party friends" is not truly possible, since there is no such thing as the tea party, just a bunch of pissed of white racists. ..


prejudiced much? :rolleyes:

AEC1
08-18-2011, 2:49 PM
Well, you don't understand politics.

Your vote is wasted unless you vote for a winner and if you think voting is all you need to do to be politically active, that's 100% false.

You have to make sure that there are winners on the ballot that respect gun rights.

That's why Jerry Brown was a better vote than Meg Whitman. He isn't perfect but he is better.

Dont even start that again. As soon as he was elected he sold us up the river. We were so OWNED by his campaign.

And I can't even vote in this stupid state...

Uxi
08-18-2011, 3:34 PM
Phobia ("Fo-Be-Ah")is the greek word for fear, and is used at the end of a word. Thus homophobia means someone with a fear of homosexuals.

Miso ("Me-So") is the greek word for hate/extreme distaste, and is used at the front of a word. Thus misohomo (Me-So-Homo) should be the appropriate term to mean someone with a hate of homosexuals.


Heh, sounds appropriate for those two specific sub-groups. It would be just as bad to lump in people from a third group who don't hate or fear homosexuality, but disagree with the lifestyle. "Homoclasts" would perhaps be a better term for them.

wash
08-18-2011, 3:44 PM
Dont even start that again. As soon as he was elected he sold us up the river. We were so OWNED by his campaign.

And I can't even vote in this stupid state...
You know it was worse to be sold down the river...

Any way, what would Meg have done that is so much better?

Remember that the Govenor does not vote on legislation, he only has veto power and no one could have fixed our budget with the congress we have.

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 3:49 PM
Dont even start that again. As soon as he was elected he sold us up the river. We were so OWNED by his campaign.

The Long Gun Registration Bill died because Jerry Brown's Department of Revenue gave it the thumbs down, which Arnie's DOR never did. When DoR says "No", that means Jerry is gonna wield the veto pen.

Uxi
08-18-2011, 3:49 PM
We could really question whether Whitman would have given the same cushy reacharound deal to the prison guards union for supporting him in the election. That's about the only difference I can think of.

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 3:50 PM
Heh, sounds appropriate for those two specific sub-groups. It would be just as bad to lump in people from a third group who don't hate or fear homosexuality, but disagree with the lifestyle. "Homoclasts" would perhaps be a better term for them.

What do you mean by "lifestyle"? Last time I checked, lifestyle means what I do after work, such as going to a bar. I don't go to bars as a general rule (Murphy's Saloon excluded)!

Tango-Alpha
08-18-2011, 4:06 PM
The pink pistols are not a bunch of sex attics who like 16" dildo's strapped to pink shotguns. :party: :rofl2: That is hysterical! You're funny. Seriously though, how do you know that they don't? How can you be so certain? Maybe they just don't invite you to those parties. :biggrinjester: LOL!!

I have organized and march in two gay pride parades in Southern California. At both events, we had different people marching with us. I have also read damn near everything on the pink pistols webpage. 1 thing I still have not seen asked anywhere though, was what type of sex they liked or "how you like it. Well.....given that they are a self proclaimed "GAY gun rights group" their sexual orientation is self evident, otherwise they'd be just any other gun rights group as somebody else pointed out earlier. So no need to ask how they like it, the fact that the group caters to the needs of that lifestyle spells it out pretty clearly.

Look, I get it. You are a sympathizer, or identify with this group for some reason. The particulars of which I'm not interested in. I do not question your desire to further advance the cause of 2A rights. At least that is my assumption; you are for 2A rights. Hopefully you're for 2A rights for all people, whether they be gay, straight, black, white, yellow or cross dressers. The point is, you don't need to stand on a GAY platform to advance the cause of 2A rights for all American's. Inherently, the rights of gay people is implicit in the phrase "all American's." It is inclusive, not exclusive. The 2A does NOT say, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, except for gays. It includes everyone. So again, I will end on my original point. No need to repeat it.

Now...one thing you must explain to me, because I really want to know. What is a sex attic? Is that something I can pick up at Home Depot and have installed in my home attic? Kinda like anytime I feel a little randy, I can just head on up to the ol' sex attic? :)

Gray Peterson
08-18-2011, 4:21 PM
Look, I get it. You are a sympathizer, or identify with this group for some reason. The particulars of which I'm not interested in. I do not question your desire to further advance the cause of 2A rights. At least that is my assumption; you are for 2A rights. Hopefully you're for 2A rights for all people, whether they be gay, straight, black, white, yellow or cross dressers. The point is, you don't need to stand on a GAY platform to advance the cause of 2A rights for all American's. Inherently, the rights of gay people is implicit in the phrase "all American's." It is inclusive, not exclusive. The 2A does NOT say, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, except for gays. It includes everyone. So again, I will end on my original point. No need to repeat it.

Actually this would be incorrect. Though not particularly in the litigation front, there have been reported historical instances of sheriffs and police chiefs using the "Good Moral Character" clause to deny gays and lesbians the ability to acquire a license to carry, saying they were not of "good moral character". In fact, they could have de-facto done so without any legal recourse for the applicant in California until 2003 in federal court (Lawrence and a few years later in Witt) and in 2008 in state court (in re Marriage Cases).

The same thing in North Carolina up until 2003 (known gays could have been denied a permit to purchase due to their "Crimes against Nature"), not to mention persons who were dishonorably discharged from the military for Article 125 violations for private consensual conduct pre-1981, or the same in the states which had felony "crimes against nature" laws pre-2003.

If you do not understand how discretionary gun determinations and administrative bans can effect gay people, then you really do not truly understand the history of who we are.

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 4:42 PM
Look, I get it. You are a sympathizer, or identify with this group for some reason. The particulars of which I'm not interested in. I do not question your desire to further advance the cause of 2A rights. At least that is my assumption; you are for 2A rights. Hopefully you're for 2A rights for all people, whether they be gay, straight, black, white, yellow or cross dressers. The point is, you don't need to stand on a GAY platform to advance the cause of 2A rights for all American's. Inherently, the rights of gay people is implicit in the phrase "all American's." It is inclusive, not exclusive. The 2A does NOT say, the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, except for gays. It includes everyone. So again, I will end on my original point. No need to repeat it.


Haha, Andrew's not "helping the poor GLBT community" because he feels bad for them as if they're a different sort of human. He and a lot of the rest of us who show up at real life events and do tangible volunteer work that happens off-forum 'identify with' people as human beings, regardless of sexual orientation.

We are being far more tactful than running around telling everyone "screw you, it's my right to carry", which includes identifying who's best qualified to take on certain tasks. Not all of us are attorneys, not everyone's good at doing news interviews, not everyone's good at writing articles, not everyone's good at giving firearms safety training at the range, not everyone is effective standing up in a City Council meeting. In this legal & political minefield, we have to be carefully strategic, no one is 'using' each other here, we're identifying with each other and coordinating our different strengths & weaknesses, like a healthy community should do. The end result is more freedom for EVERYONE, not just select groups that we morally approve of.

I could tell you about Andrew's intentions or 'platform' he stands on or how his actions help further rights in California and eventually the rest of the country but I encourage you to find out for yourself, firsthand, by coming out to volunteer at some of the events we have, get involved in one of the community outreach activities we do and judge for yourself based off of something more substantive than interweb speculation. You'll have a ton of fun, I promise...especially with Andrew, he's way more fun in-person than on a web-cam. :43:
Real life > picture = 1,000 words

CavTrooper
08-18-2011, 4:59 PM
Why must we always have this discussion, anytime the Pink Pistols are brought up?

This is not about being gay, this is not about being straight, this is not about being a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Catholic, Jewish, rich or poor. This is about gun rights.

The more people who vote and understand that gun owners are not just white red necks, the less laws that the CalGuns Foundation, CRPA, SAF, NRA will have to fight.

Sorry brother, it IS about being gay. If it wasnt, then Pink Pistols would be a purely 2A org.

Now, you may proceed with the hetro bashing.

Tango-Alpha
08-18-2011, 5:10 PM
My friend, I have no doubt that you are more versed in the nuances of how arbitrary or discretionary decisions on the issuance of CCW's have negatively impacted the gay community. You are correct, I do not truly understand the "history" because it is not something that I have ever cared to delve into. All of that aside, you mentioned gays being denied CCW's on the basis of the "good moral character" clause. While this "perception" on the part of law enforcement may plague those of the gay community, it is certainly not an exclusive club. There are plenty, in fact, an overwhelming majority of CA residents who have been denied a CCW, whether it be on the basis of "good cause" or "good moral character". In the final analysis, the result is the same. So as a matter of point in fact, you and I are on the same side of the issue, though we may have different persuasions. It's about gun rights for all citizens. Our sexual orientation is not relevant.

Actually this would be incorrect. Though not particularly in the litigation front, there have been reported historical instances of sheriffs and police chiefs using the "Good Moral Character" clause to deny gays and lesbians the ability to acquire a license to carry, saying they were not of "good moral character". In fact, they could have de-facto done so without any legal recourse for the applicant in California until 2003 in federal court (Lawrence and a few years later in Witt) and in 2008 in state court (in re Marriage Cases).

The same thing in North Carolina up until 2003 (known gays could have been denied a permit to purchase due to their "Crimes against Nature"), not to mention persons who were dishonorably discharged from the military for Article 125 violations for private consensual conduct pre-1981, or the same in the states which had felony "crimes against nature" laws pre-2003.

If you do not understand how discretionary gun determinations and administrative bans can effect gay people, then you really do not truly understand the history of who we are.

oaklander
08-18-2011, 5:43 PM
LOL, the thread parsed out like I thought it would.

GreaseMonkey - I will PM you something. I scored a cool speaker for your event. . .

:D

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 7:47 PM
GreaseMonkey - I will PM you something. I scored, twice!! :D

Kevin, that's probably something you should post on the forum, at least save that for the Calguns Members facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/26740744435/).

AEC1
08-18-2011, 7:54 PM
We are being far more tactful than running around telling everyone "screw you, it's my right to carry", which includes identifying who's best qualified to take on certain tasks. Not all of us are attorneys, not everyone's good at doing news interviews, not everyone's good at writing articles, not everyone's good at giving firearms safety training at the range, not everyone is effective standing up in a City Council meeting. In this legal & political minefield, we have to be carefully strategic, no one is 'using' each other here, we're identifying with each other and coordinating our different strengths & weaknesses, like a healthy community should do. The end result is more freedom for EVERYONE, not just select groups that we morally approve of.


Not really tactful. I had a hard time explaining the pink dildo atached to the toy mosberg to my 8 year old son when he saw that picture....

yellowfin
08-18-2011, 8:01 PM
Not really tactful. I had a hard time explaining the pink dildo atached to the toy mosberg to my 8 year old son when he saw that picture....
It's a rocket ship! (As Edward Norton observed while dressed as a purple rhino.)


You know what we really need? The Pink Pistols in NY, NJ, and MA. HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THEM. You know what that would do?

http://machosmag-science.com/uploads/164/small_7.jpg

Game over for the anti gun political complex in North America.

taperxz
08-18-2011, 8:34 PM
Why can't people that are gay just be calgunners? NRA members, ect?

What does being gay have anything to do with the price of rice in china in regards to 2A issues. I have family members that are gay who refuse to be classified. They are simply people who are attracted to people of the same sex. Whether it is a choice or the way they are born means nothing to me! Being gay, black, white, Jewish, catholic or whatever has nothing to do with 2a rights!!!

Remember the last minority group to bear arms got us UOC!! The Black Panthers!!

JMO and said by a person who loves and cares about his family members who are gay!

Beemerguy
08-18-2011, 8:57 PM
Welcome to California... identity politics is the norm.

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 9:56 PM
Not really tactful. I had a hard time explaining the pink dildo atached to the toy mosberg to my 8 year old son when he saw that picture....

I think what you may be failing to realize here is that keeping a Republic, or a free country, takes socially uncomfortable measures within the legal system at home. It takes peaceably going against the norm and pushing the limits of social comfort. We would MUCH prefer using socially uncomfortable measures than choose the route here at home that leads to violence, none of us want a violent end to this, we want to do EVERYTHING we can to peaceably work within the laws of our country to regain our rights.

You should also have had a difficult time explaining war to your son, explaining why it's justifiable that a suicide bomber got his head removed with a .50-cal before he detonated, what people look like after they're impacted with a .308 round or multiple 5.56 hits, why there's bits of people splattered in an Iraqi street because we had to stop him from murdering people with the mortars he's launching. Show him some night vision footage of an AC-130 or one of the 160th's rotary-wing gunships turning people into carpets of glowing bits on the ground. Then it's a lot easier to appreciate the perspective that we're willing to work alongside seemingly odd people displaying pink dildos in a peaceable assembly in an effort to get the attention of lawmakers instead of doing what the idiots overseas are doing that have brought a war down on their heads.

I'll much sooner endorse the social awkwardness of explaining why a dildo was used if the end result is that we don't have bloodshed on our own soil...go ahead and call me crazy....

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 10:08 PM
my son was sent home from school last year for using queer last year, it was considered derogatory. I wish that community would make up its mind...


that issue was the final straw, we now homeschool!!!

I'll contend that if you were good at politics and the most important politics are on a local level, you ought to have had the school apologizing to you for the misunderstanding.

Citizen 14
08-18-2011, 10:37 PM
It's all so simple, I understand now. Why do these groups need their own identity? Why can't they just join the group I belong to and be happy about that? Why should they have a group that fulfills their particular needs? It makes me uncomfortable and I don't like it. Someone needs to tell Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership that they need to tone it down a bit . :facepalm:

On a separate note, I have many friends who are gay and when I tell them I joined a Pink Pistol group, they all look at me like I'm crazy. lol

greasemonkey
08-18-2011, 10:59 PM
For one, that's so much easier to read now that it's not completely bold, which is typically reserved for emphasizing a single word or phrase. Second and Primarily, being a CalGuns member/participant is not about 'CalGuns' being the only group involved/making progress. It's not possible and would be ineffective for everyone to be the same. The CalGuns Community is unique in that we are not only active participants in other niche communities but we're able to coordinate different communities to work together towards a common goal.

We need different perspectives, we need multiple approaches to an issue, have those and being able to work together is what makes us effective.

It's all so simple, I understand now. Why do these groups need their own identity? Why can't they just join the group I belong to and be happy about that? Why should they have a group that fulfills their particular needs? It makes me uncomfortable and I don't like it. Someone needs to tell Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership that they need to tone it down a bit . :facepalm:

On a separate note, I have many friends who are gay and when I tell them I joined a Pink Pistol group, they all look at me like I'm crazy. lol

Citizen 14
08-19-2011, 2:12 AM
For one, that's so much easier to read now that it's not completely bold, which is typically reserved for emphasizing a single word or phrase. Second and Primarily, being a CalGuns member/participant is not about 'CalGuns' being the only group involved/making progress. It's not possible and would be ineffective for everyone to be the same. The CalGuns Community is unique in that we are not only active participants in other niche communities but we're able to coordinate different communities to work together towards a common goal.

We need different perspectives, we need multiple approaches to an issue, have those and being able to work together is what makes us effective.

1st) I like writing in bold it makes me feel all manly, I appreciate the font instruction, but I write that way because I like it. Having said that, I am new here and you have your stripes, so I will defer to you. :D

2nd) I think the sarcasm in my post missed you by a mile and a 1/2. I completely agree we need differing views. I believe that being inclusive can only help us. My post was about the silliness of being annoyed at other groups for doing it their way. I guess something got lost in the translation. My apologies.

chead
08-19-2011, 3:10 AM
I'm a huge fan of the Pink Pistols. I don't have much to add to the thread aside from that I appreciate the group and the folks that support them on Calguns. :)

nicki
08-19-2011, 3:25 AM
Nicki I vote that you get a Kim Jong Il haircut to go along with your new title of Fearless Leader.
__________________



Wash, I have no intention of looking like that "douche" from NoKor.

Besides, FEARLESS LEADER was a eastern European in the "Rocky and Bullwinkle Cartoons".

Now when I get my weight down, I will get a long leather jacket, some boots, black leather skirt and appropriate top to go with it.

May even consider some hair extensions so my hair can be down to my rear.
Get a SS officer hat, a riding crop and I will be "smoking".

Throw on a sidearm, and get some cool Long Guns and I would be "hot".

gun toting monkeyboy
08-19-2011, 7:37 AM
Request sent. I sent their San Diego chapter mulitple requests to come join us at UOC events when we still had them, and invites to our organized shoots. I never heard back from them. ):

oaklander
08-19-2011, 7:44 AM
Kevin, that's probably something you should post on the forum, at least save that for the Calguns Members facebook group (http://www.facebook.com/groups/26740744435/).

Now that we have talked on phone - you see why I had to use discretion. YET ANOTHER example of why people need to realize that 95 percent of what we do now never shows up here, anymore. . .

;)

oaklander
08-19-2011, 7:47 AM
I do not truly understand the "history" because it is not something that I have ever cared to delve into.

Then why are you even posting on this topic?

That would be like me walking into a motorcycle club "clubhouse" and shouting "you guys all suck, I read it on the internet!!!"

Why are you compelled to talk about things you do not know about? Do you even know who the people here "are?"

You don't know about CCW, and yet you opine. The other dude did not even know I was white, and he tried to make a joke about black people, at my expense. The FAIL on you all's part is overwhelming.

"We" are not here to jump down your throat - but please, the folks who do best on this forum are the ones who read and listen.

oaklander
08-19-2011, 7:50 AM
Request sent. I sent their San Diego chapter mulitple requests to come join us at UOC events when we still had them, and invites to our organized shoots. I never heard back from them. ):

I am intuiting that there may be some organizational changes in the works.

wash
08-19-2011, 9:26 AM
Remember the last minority group to bear arms got us UOC!! The Black Panthers!!

That is a very big stretch. The panthers were a militant group inside the civil rights movement and despite what their poorly chosen actions resulted in, they had the right idea.

Pink Pistols wear T-shirts at pride parades and Californian politicians take them far more seriously than a straight white male in an NRA cap.

Yeah, straight white guys with caps have a right to be a little upset about that but I would rather just work with anyone who can help.

This is about political power and the first key is numbers. More is better. The second key is diversity. We need to convince people that gun rights are not a minority issue, that is where cooperating with like minded groups pays off. The third key is organization and this is our biggest weak spot. We need to work well together and focus our power with a solid strategy on the issue at hand. It would do us no good to have a million calgunners if no one was interested in working together.

The issue at hand is the right to self defense and we want the people with the greatest need for self defense to be on our side. One of those groups is the LGBTQ community and the reason why is a mix of a few homophobes and a lot of people who don't think it's their problem.

It's not good enough to live and let live, as long as any person has a need for self defense, we've got to support their ability to defend themselves. Self defense isn't a right that's only for you and me, it's for everyone.

Havoc70
08-19-2011, 9:48 AM
You don't know about CCW, and yet you opine. The other dude did not even know I was white, and he tried to make a joke about black people, at my expense. The FAIL on you all's part is overwhelming.

That'll be $10 payable to Calguns Foundation :).

taperxz
08-19-2011, 10:00 AM
Wash your a good cal gunner. this time your preaching to the choir.

Sub groups won't make our position stronger. I have nothing against the Pink Pistols at all!! I am just saying they could be more active in everyday 2a rights orgs. Perhaps make a bigger impression through integration. JMO

Ther is NO need to have a gay 2a group to align with. They need to integrate into the mainstream just like they are doing with marriage.

wash
08-19-2011, 10:09 AM
I have to disagree with you, "sub groups" can and will make us stronger.

Look at the Joyce foundation, they regularly set up "AstroTurf" anti gun groups so they can sound like a bunch of different groups working together.

We have many many real grassroots groups in every state. That is real power. We just have to organize better to fully utilize it.

infernl
08-19-2011, 10:11 AM
It does not, and that is my point. We are all rights people here. Please do not make me embarrass you in front of your "tea party" friends, in public, like this.

I *toy* with people like you.

Here's the sad part. I have zero problems with anyone who is gay. It is their life and their preference and I am glad to know that such persons support 2A. While I would never attend a gay pride parade, I believe that persons who wish to, and support these actions should do so without reserve.

However, this statement was a complete turnoff to the whole thread. I read it and still support anyone trying to keep our constitutional rights intact - I just see the statement as derogatory to another group.

-How can you be non-judgemental, when you are judging someone else?

taperxz
08-19-2011, 10:28 AM
I have to disagree with you, "sub groups" can and will make us stronger.

Look at the Joyce foundation, they regularly set up "AstroTurf" anti gun groups so they can sound like a bunch of different groups working together.

We have many many real grassroots groups in every state. That is real power. We just have to organize better to fully utilize it.
In some cases you may be right, I personally don't believe gays are a minority group. They are to me anyway a special interest group. What I mean by that is any can be gay. Whether by choice or not, all walks of the human race can be gay. To me the pink pistols are a group of 2a advocates who choose to distinguish themselves from mainstream 2a advocates. I don't think this helps either party. Where are the black groups, Jewish groups or Chinese 2a groups? Hmmm, in the mainstream? Just sayin.

wash
08-19-2011, 10:56 AM
There are some people who will join Pink Pistols but won't join NRA calguns or any other gun rights group. Leaving out the Pink Pistols because of "eww, they are gay" is going to mean those people will not be on our side.

People who join cowboy action shooting groups do so by choice, should they be excluded?

AEC1
08-19-2011, 11:03 AM
Here's the sad part. I have zero problems with anyone who is gay. It is their life and their preference and I am glad to know that such persons support 2A. While I would never attend a gay pride parade, I believe that persons who wish to, and support these actions should do so without reserve.

However, this statement was a complete turnoff to the whole thread. I read it and still support anyone trying to keep our constitutional rights intact - I just see the statement as derogatory to another group.

-How can you be non-judgemental, when you are judging someone else?

I like

AEC1
08-19-2011, 11:04 AM
In some cases you may be right, I personally don't believe gays are a minority group. They are to me anyway a special interest group. What I mean by that is any can be gay. Whether by choice or not, all walks of the human race can be gay. To me the pink pistols are a group of 2a advocates who choose to distinguish themselves from mainstream 2a advocates. I don't think this helps either party. Where are the black groups, Jewish groups or Chinese 2a groups? Hmmm, in the mainstream? Just sayin.

There is a Jewish gun group.

hawk1
08-19-2011, 11:08 AM
I support the pink pistols and think that we should welcome all who would advocated for 2A rights.

However I fail to see how being gay makes it harder to own guns. I have never seen that question on the dros paperwork.

And I am a conservative libertarian. To threaten me in front of my "tea Party friends" is not truly possible, since there is no such thing as the tea party, just a bunch of pissed of white racists.

Oaklander you get to be more and more insulting and arrogant by the day. This place has sure gone down hill once AR15 and Pullnshoot got booted. The elitist attitude around here seems to be contagious. Soon we will be fighting for CCW for only those that agree with the board....

Wow, first thing I've found that you and I have ever agreed on.

taperxz
08-19-2011, 11:20 AM
There are some people who will join Pink Pistols but won't join NRA calguns or any other gun rights group. Leaving out the Pink Pistols because of "eww, they are gay" is going to mean those people will not be on our side.

People who join cowboy action shooting groups do so by choice, should they be excluded?


Wow, the fail! WON'T! Join the NRA?? WHY NOT? What's the hang up? Are you saying that gays have a hang up with their sexual orientation that prevents them for fighting for rights that are not gay rights? It's almost like your defense of gays is really a cut to ability and intelligence.

I am not saying ewe they are gay. I have sat with family members who brought the family out and deathly afraid of "coming-out. Remember everyone is different whether gay or straight!

Cowboy action groups Are not! A minority of any race, religion, or sexual orientation!. Come on now!

wash
08-19-2011, 11:26 AM
Ok, so we exclude cawboy action shooters who don't join the NRA. Is there anyone else you would like to exclude?

taperxz
08-19-2011, 11:31 AM
Ok, so we exclude cawboy action shooters who don't join the NRA. Is there anyone else you would like to exclude?

Wash, even if one doesn't agree with the NRA, There is SAF, CPRA, CGF etc.

wash
08-19-2011, 11:49 AM
That's not the point.

The far left liberal democrat has been the champion of gay rights, that means most LGBTQ folks are far left liberal democrat. Groups like Pink Pistols give us the ability to say "hey look, gun rights are not incompatible with far left liberal democrat politics".

That is far more important than complaining about a person not joining the NRA.

taperxz
08-19-2011, 12:13 PM
That's not the point.

The far left liberal democrat has been the champion of gay rights, that means most LGBTQ folks are far left liberal democrat. Groups like Pink Pistols give us the ability to say "hey look, gun rights are not incompatible with far left liberal democrat politics".

That is far more important than complaining about a person not joining the NRA.
Oh, I get, exploit a group for personal gain. Wouldn't that be in the same context as " the token black guy?"

AEC1
08-19-2011, 12:27 PM
I'll contend that if you were good at politics and the most important politics are on a local level, you ought to have had the school apologizing to you for the misunderstanding.

They did, after I meet with the Superintendent of the 3rd largest district in CA. Got on the budget committee and pulled him out and the money he brought to the district with him...

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 12:35 PM
Oh, I get, exploit a group for personal gain. Wouldn't that be in the same context as " the token black guy?"

Was Otis McDonald or Shelly Parker (case which became Heller) tokens? Is Michael Moore (no relation) a token? Was Deanna Sykes a "token gay"? What about Tom Palmer? What about me?

wash
08-19-2011, 12:39 PM
It is more important that we work together than getting everyone to join the same group.

AEC1
08-19-2011, 12:40 PM
Was Otis McDonald or Shelly Parker (case which became Heller) tokens? Is Michael Moore (no relation) a token? Was Deanna Sykes a "token gay"? What about Tom Palmer? What about me?

Unfortunately, to a certain extent yes. I remember the search for plaintiffs I think it was Sykes (which is a member here) and we were very excited cause we had a gay female, and that was better then a straight male, the only thing that would have been better is is she was black...

AEC1
08-19-2011, 12:41 PM
Quick question, what does 27 and 66 in the boxes mean?

taperxz
08-19-2011, 12:46 PM
Sorry Gray, you need to get over yourself. You I assume are not fighting for your 2a rights because of race, religion or sexual orientation. Are you?

Re read my quotes. I am simply of the opinion that the pink pistols should main stream their 2a rights movement instead of being identified as a gay 2a rights org. Gay has zero to do with the second amendment.

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 2:14 PM
Sorry Gray, you need to get over yourself. You I assume are not fighting for your 2a rights because of race, religion or sexual orientation. Are you?

Why did the Deacons for Defense bear arms? To protect their communities. Why do jewish JPFO members have guns? Primarily to protect themselves and their families, especially due to anti-jewish violence and oppresion.

Re read my quotes. I am simply of the opinion that the pink pistols should main stream their 2a rights movement instead of being identified as a gay 2a rights org. Gay has zero to do with the second amendment.

Really? I think she would greatly disagree with you. (http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-12-21/bay-area/17132552_1_suspect-gay-pride-richmond-woman)

taperxz
08-19-2011, 2:43 PM
Gray, everyone has their own story. Gay and 2a are not synonymous. America and 2a are!

AEC1
08-19-2011, 3:10 PM
Really? I think she would greatly disagree with you. (http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-12-21/bay-area/17132552_1_suspect-gay-pride-richmond-woman)

So why is this more dangerous then if she was straight? Straight ladies get gang raped to. Why should she be seen as different just because she is lesbian?

I also hate hate crime laws. If I am white and kill a black dude it should be the same as if a black guy kills me. or beats me or whatever. I guarantee it wasn't out of love that the abuse happened. The motivation should not make one bit of difference the action is the crime, not the motive....

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 3:30 PM
So why is this more dangerous then if she was straight? Straight ladies get gang raped to. Why should she be seen as different just because she is lesbian?

I also hate hate crime laws. If I am white and kill a black dude it should be the same as if a black guy kills me. or beats me or whatever. I guarantee it wasn't out of love that the abuse happened. The motivation should not make one bit of difference the action is the crime, not the motive....

If that is true, the why does every state and territory differentiate premeditated murder and a crime of passion slaying or a self defense slaying gone bad? The other party is still dead. Why wasn't Harold Fish sentenced to the gas chamber after killing a person in claimed self defense? Luckily the legislature fixed the issue for Fish, twice (first time the courts ruled the first fix inapplicable).

G60
08-19-2011, 3:38 PM
Since nobody seemed to answer my question the first time (i'm not really curious as to the answer, because I know what it is, and I know why I didn't get an answer), i'll ask it again:

How come none of you who have an issue with the Pink Pistols have an issue with women's shooting clubs?

AEC1
08-19-2011, 4:13 PM
If that is true, the why does every state and territory differentiate premeditated murder and a crime of passion slaying or a self defense slaying gone bad? The other party is still dead. Why wasn't Harold Fish sentenced to the gas chamber after killing a person in claimed self defense? Luckily the legislature fixed the issue for Fish, twice (first time the courts ruled the first fix inapplicable).

There is a difference between justifiable homicide and murder. Once it is murder then it should all be death penalty. Just cause the courts ruled one way, does not make it correct. Once upon a time Women or non whites could not vote ether...

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 4:21 PM
There is a difference between justifiable homicide and murder. Once it is murder then it should all be death penalty. Just cause the courts ruled one way, does not make it correct. Once upon a time Women or non whites could not vote ether...

Which took four different constitutional amendments to fix (14th, 15th, 19th, and 24th) and Warren Court's willingness to strike down violations. Nothing happens in a vacuum in the court system. See what happened with Naim v. Naim.

Tango-Alpha
08-19-2011, 4:24 PM
You appear to lack the ability to connect the dots, much less make a persuasive argument. Your homework is to go back and reread my original post in this thread because your statement about walking in to a biker bar and hurling insults is both ridiculous and absurd. It is not even remotely the same thing as people expressing their own personal opinion or comfort level with the gay right movement. If you can't see the difference, then you're doing the group more harm than good.

Aside from that, I don't need to be intimately familiar with the gay lifestyle or their "unique struggle" for 2A rights....which by the way, doesn't sound any different than the issues all gun owners struggle with.

I am entitled to express my opinion as much as the next guy and I believe I've articulated my argument clearly and coherently, unlike your irrational and myopic point of view. What appears to be very clear is that there are others who feel the same as I do who have expressed themselves just as persuasively and that seems to bother you. If someone doesn't agree with your point of view then you get your panties in a wad. Is that how you're wired? Well I hate to be the one to break the news to you Sunshine, but life doesn't dispense reality in palatable bite sized pieces to your personal liking. My opinion and those of others here stand on their own merit and does not need your approval, validation, endorsement or agreement whatsoever. Feel free to disagree if you like, I really couldn't care any less.

Tango-Alpha

Then why are you even posting on this topic?

That would be like me walking into a motorcycle club "clubhouse" and shouting "you guys all suck, I read it on the internet!!!"

Why are you compelled to talk about things you do not know about? Do you even know who the people here "are?"

You don't know about CCW, and yet you opine. The other dude did not even know I was white, and he tried to make a joke about black people, at my expense. The FAIL on you all's part is overwhelming.

"We" are not here to jump down your throat - but please, the folks who do best on this forum are the ones who read and listen.

Tango-Alpha
08-19-2011, 5:18 PM
I don't think anyone is intentionally ignoring you, but since you feel left out I'll give you the answer. First of all you make an invalid comparison. A female gun rights group or shooting club is not a sexually oriented group, it is simply a gender based group. No statement is made as to their sexual preference or orientation. A gay gun rights group is EXACTLY THAT, which is a different thing altogether. It is first and foremost a GAY association, who happen to support gun rights. The fact that they identify themselves as a gay association should make it pretty obvious to you the difference between them and a female group that does not define publicly their sexual preferences/orientation. So as I said before, personally I'm happy they support gun rights, however I see no need to publicly label or define for everyone their sexual orientation in an effort to support 2A rights. We can all support 2A rights and work together for a mutual benefit, but as for me personally, it won't be under a pink tent with a rainbow colored flag. I support organizations such as the Second Amendment Foundation who fights for gun rights of all citizens, which inherently includes all members of gay society. One difference however that you have with the Pink Pistols is that while they support gun rights, it's for the rights of gays primarily. As others here have said, if it wasn't for being a gay organization, they would be just an ordinary gun rights group.

O.k. I'm starting to repeat myself now, so I've said all I'm going to say on the matter. This topic is like beating a dead horse. I've made my position clear.

Since nobody seemed to answer my question the first time (i'm not really curious as to the answer, because I know what it is, and I know why I didn't get an answer), i'll ask it again:

How come none of you who have an issue with the Pink Pistols have an issue with women's shooting clubs?

taperxz
08-19-2011, 5:33 PM
Just got done talking to two gay family members about this subject.

Their opinion was in varying ways was:

If gay people would quit putting "GAY" before everything they either wanted or fought for, perhaps they would be understood in other regular ways other than Gay.

This ain't the 70's and 80's!!

Both of them live in San Francisco and said many activist gays will push their agenda until the whole world is gay!,

Both worked and struggled for gay rights Years ago in SF.

taperxz
08-19-2011, 5:38 PM
Which took four different constitutional amendments to fix (14th, 15th, 19th, and 24th) and Warren Court's willingness to strike down violations. Nothing happens in a vacuum in the court system. See what happened with Naim v. Naim.


Gray, wouldn't it be better to just be Gray Peterson, instead of Gray the gay guy on calguns?

I personally don't care if someone is gay, I do care about civil rights for all though.

Really, for the general population, what does gay have to do with the 2a??

Tango-Alpha
08-19-2011, 6:18 PM
:clap: :iagree: I support gun rights for everyone, which includes gays. However it is not a point that needs to be made while standing upon on a political and culturally sensitive gay platform
Just got done talking to two gay family members about this subject.
Their opinion was in varying ways was: If gay people would quit putting "GAY" before everything they either wanted or fought for, perhaps they would be understood in other regular ways other than Gay.


I personally don't care if someone is gay, I do care about civil rights for all though.

Really, for the general population, what does gay have to do with the 2a??

oaklander
08-19-2011, 6:26 PM
How do you guys like my new avatar?

:D

I am going to encourage all of us who support the Pink Pistols to show our support by changing our Avatars for a bit. . .

socalocalypse
08-19-2011, 6:56 PM
Thank you for your help for gun rights

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 6:59 PM
:clap: :iagree: I support gun rights for everyone, which includes gays. However it is not a point that needs to be made while standing upon on a political and culturally sensitive gay platform

You know, all of that ranting and raving about "gay" this and "panties" that, you completely miss the point of what the Pink Pistols are. We are not here to convince you. We are here to convince that community; and the more you dog-whistle us publicly, the more you folks publicly call us a "preference", a "lifestyle", or an "agenda", you make the jobs of myself, tboyer, and Nicki tremendously more difficult. You also help our anti-gun enemies who will use this to add to the stereotype that "gunnies are hateful bigots".

One of my friends lurks here but doesn't post here. He's moderately interested in gun ownership and would be interested in carrying. However, he sees stuff like this and shakes his head at what's being expressed here. He will never do grassroots outreach for CGN because people like you drive him away with your denigrating statements of him and I (Note, he is 100 percent supportive of CGF because litigation is independent of politics for the most part).

He will also never join the NRA because of the perception that that NRA means "National Republican Association", and the same goes for CRPA as well. He shies away from anything remotely political involving us because of people LIKE YOU who continually dehumanize me by calling us a "lifestyle". You also push away the "straight-allies" and cement the perception that gun owners are bigoted pigs. Thanks for costing us allies on the margin, T-A.

If the larger gay political community starts massively allying themselves with anti-gun forces in this state to push gun ban zones for carry license holders post-SCOTUS carry case because they believe that your attitude of dehumanization being supposedly common means an increased likely-hood of shootings and murders of members of the gay community by the "gunnies", all of us gun owners who live, work, and vacation in California would be totally screwed, save a CGF TRO hail mary. Only the Pink Pistols in California can put a stop to that, and if you continue slinging arrows into our backs like you're doing, we will fail at that task because the question we'll be asked by politicians are along the lines of "Well, those gun people don't actually have your back".

Comprende?

scootergmc
08-19-2011, 7:25 PM
*yawn* /thread

Gun rights would be 1000% better in CA if Pink Pistols could just get Mark Leno on their side. Why can't that be done?

AEC1
08-19-2011, 7:51 PM
You know, all of that ranting and raving about "gay" this and "panties" that, you completely miss the point of what the Pink Pistols are. We are not here to convince you. We are here to convince that community; and the more you dog-whistle us publicly, the more you folks publicly call us a "preference", a "lifestyle", or an "agenda", you make the jobs of myself, tboyer, and Nicki tremendously more difficult. You also help our anti-gun enemies who will use this to add to the stereotype that "gunnies are hateful bigots".

One of my friends lurks here but doesn't post here. He's moderately interested in gun ownership and would be interested in carrying. However, he sees stuff like this and shakes his head at what's being expressed here. He will never do grassroots outreach for CGN because people like you drive him away with your denigrating statements of him and I (Note, he is 100 percent supportive of CGF because litigation is independent of politics for the most part).

He will also never join the NRA because of the perception that that NRA means "National Republican Association", and the same goes for CRPA as well. He shies away from anything remotely political involving us because of people LIKE YOU who continually dehumanize me by calling us a "lifestyle". You also push away the "straight-allies" and cement the perception that gun owners are bigoted pigs. Thanks for costing us allies on the margin, T-A.

If the larger gay political community starts massively allying themselves with anti-gun forces in this state to push gun ban zones for carry license holders post-SCOTUS carry case because they believe that your attitude of dehumanization being supposedly common means an increased likely-hood of shootings and murders of members of the gay community by the "gunnies", all of us gun owners who live, work, and vacation in California would be totally screwed, save a CGF TRO hail mary. Only the Pink Pistols in California can put a stop to that, and if you continue slinging arrows into our backs like you're doing, we will fail at that task because the question we'll be asked by politicians are along the lines of "Well, those gun people don't actually have your back".

Comprende?

Gray, Bro no one is bashing gays here. Just the opposite. Most have said they support gays right to keep and bear arms. I think the issue is all about the way the LGBTQ community chooses to press their agenda.

When the UOC movement here was in big debate the 10lb brains explained that the in your face type of activism was misplaced. I reluctantly relented and stood down, and the 2A movement is making huge headway in the courts.

Contrast that with the LGBTQ movement and the happenings at pride parades. I have been to one and was embarrassed to the point of blushing at the stuff going on (I am a Sailor of 15 years and not much shocks me). The calguns pink pistol march with the giant pink dildo is way over the top and a great example of the type of activism that comes from the LGBTQ community. It is odd that the same people here who vehemently spewed hate to some of us UOC guys as being too over the top and too in your face to be successful in winning over the public would advocate a 10 inch pink dido... Pretty sure that type of stuff does not win over many Joe Public types to the LGBTQ side.

Just my humble opinion.

hoffmang
08-19-2011, 7:54 PM
It is odd that the same people here who vehemently spewed hate to some of us UOC guys as being too over the top and too in your face to be successful in winning over the public would advocate a 10 inch pink dido... Pretty sure that type of stuff does not win over many Joe Public types to the LGBTQ side.

A Gay Pride parade isn't populated by Joe Public. In context, that display shows that gun owners get the social context of a pride parade - even if they aren't gay. UOC'ing in a coffee shop full of soccer moms is showing that gun owners have no idea of the social context of their behavior.

-Gene

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 8:06 PM
Gray, Bro no one is bashing gays here. Just the opposite. Most have said they support gays right to keep and bear arms.

Here's the extended handshake about to be given...

I think the issue is all about the way the LGBTQ community chooses to press their agenda.

And then comes to the five fingers to the face....

When the UOC movement here was in big debate the 10lb brains explained that the in your face type of activism was misplaced. I reluctantly relented and stood down, and the 2A movement is making huge headway in the courts.

Contrast that with the LGBTQ movement and the happenings at pride parades. I have been to one and was embarrassed to the point of blushing at the stuff going on (I am a Sailor of 15 years and not much shocks me). The calguns pink pistol march with the giant pink dildo is way over the top and a great example of the type of activism that comes from the LGBTQ community. It is odd that the same people here who vehemently spewed hate to some of us UOC guys as being too over the top and too in your face to be successful in winning over the public would advocate a 10 inch pink dido... Pretty sure that type of stuff does not win over many Joe Public types to the LGBTQ side.

Just my humble opinion.

Just remember:

Gays wield political power but not voting power (as shown by Prop 8)

Gun owners have neither political or voting power.

Think about it.

AEC1
08-19-2011, 8:08 PM
A Gay Pride parade isn't populated by Joe Public. In context, that display shows that gun owners get the social context of a pride parade - even if they aren't gay. UOC'ing in a coffee shop full of soccer moms is showing that gun owners have no idea of the social context of their behavior.

-Gene

Pride parades take place on public streets. Why would Joe Public not be on a public street? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO SEE WHAT I SAW. The LGBTQ movement has scared joe public away from public places!!! Gene you are a smart man, I have admired 99.9% of what you post and you are the number one reason why I no longer UOC. But I think it is a crime that I am deprived of my right to take my family downtown during these events.

What does the LGBTQ community say about a KKK rally? I am sure that they don't like them at all, most don't. But the environment at ether one are not FAMILY friendly!!!

AEC1
08-19-2011, 8:12 PM
Just remember:

Gays wield political power but not voting power (as shown by Prop 8)

Gun owners have neither political or voting power.

Think about it.

I guess I am more concerned with right and wrong and convictions vice any means to the end. I would not sell my soul to get what I am after.

For clarity I am NOT intending that the LGBTQ has sold my soul, I just disagree with their mode of operation. I would call the cops on a straight guy in assless chaps or a straight lady showing her dildo in public, there are decency laws in this country...

Gray Peterson
08-19-2011, 8:27 PM
I guess I am more concerned with right and wrong and convictions vice any means to the end. I would not sell my soul to get what I am after.

For clarity I am NOT intending that the LGBTQ has sold my soul, I just disagree with their mode of operation. I would call the cops on a straight guy in assless chaps or a straight lady showing her dildo in public, there are decency laws in this country...

There are no laws banning the display of those kind of toys by private individuals under California state law. There certainly isn't in San Francisco or Los Angeles or West Hollywood. It may be socially unacceptable for you, but it is not unlawful.

As for the "assless chaps" thing, all they have to do is wear bikini underwear and they would be lawful.

wildhawker
08-19-2011, 8:39 PM
As for the "assless chaps" thing, all they have to do is wear bikini underwear and they would be lawful.

Is that the Bullet Button of the assless chaps world?

hoffmang
08-19-2011, 8:40 PM
Pride parades take place on public streets. Why would Joe Public not be on a public street? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO SEE WHAT I SAW. The LGBTQ movement has scared joe public away from public places!!! Gene you are a smart man, I have admired 99.9% of what you post and you are the number one reason why I no longer UOC. But I think it is a crime that I am deprived of my right to take my family downtown during these events.

What does the LGBTQ community say about a KKK rally? I am sure that they don't like them at all, most don't. But the environment at ether one are not FAMILY friendly!!!

ACE,

Thanks for admitting that you're not part of the target audience at a gay pride parade. The KKK isn't very useful for convincing those who don't support gun rights to rethink their position. However, having those who do support gay rights rethink their position on guns is very useful.

You keep confusing your personal distaste for gay rights with good political strategy or support for civil rights. That's kind of small minded.

A whole lot of adult conversation aren't appropriate for my daughters yet due to age. But, nothing happens at a gay rights parade that would be inappropriate for my daughters after they're adults.

What's your problem with cute lesbians exactly?

-Gene

Inyoite
08-19-2011, 8:42 PM
Why wouldn't two groups that have their civil rights trampled on work together at every possible point that their viewpoints intersect?

AEC1
08-19-2011, 8:54 PM
ACE,

What's your problem with cute lesbians exactly?

-Gene

Same problem with ugly ones I guess...

taperxz
08-19-2011, 9:05 PM
One of my friends lurks here but doesn't post here. He's moderately interested in gun ownership and would be interested in carrying. However, he sees stuff like this and shakes his head at what's being expressed here. He will never do grassroots outreach for CGN because people like you drive him away with your denigrating statements of him and I (Note, he is 100 percent supportive of CGF because litigation is independent of politics for the most part).

So, it's ok for him to reject calguns because of a stereotype but you won't tolerate the same from the opinions in this forum?

I will admit the political savvy behind gays is a very good model for 2a rights

G60
08-19-2011, 9:05 PM
Why wouldn't two groups that have their civil rights trampled on work together at every possible point that their viewpoints intersect?

Because some people, contrary to their sig lines, only believe in liberty and freedom when it's convenient for them, and doesn't offend their sensibilities.

And that's the tricky thing about the constitution, isn't it? it's not there to protect things that don't offend people's sensibilities, it's there to protect our rights when the exercise of them DOES upset people, otherwise, we wouldn't need it, now would we?

And of course I've just opened up the "where in the constitution does it say being gay is a right" argument which just proves how ignorant and bigoted whoever uses it really is.

Tango-Alpha
08-19-2011, 9:06 PM
I suppose it was only a matter of time before you chimed in with your rhetoric about how you're being mistreated and denigrated simply because we do not agree with supporting gun rights vis a vie a gay rights platform. Anyone who cares to read through my posts throughout this thread will see that I have not cast any disparaging remarks against you or anyone in the gay community nor have I characterized the gay lifestyle in a negative way. What I've said repeatedly is we can all accomplish the same objective by securing equal gun rights for EVERYONE, including gays, without using a platform which very clearly spells out YOUR sexual orientation. I find it reprehensible that you claim you're being "dehumanized" because you dislike terms such as "lifestyle, orientation and preference" Oh the horror! Such terrible things to say. What an awful way to malign a person! If it were my intention to offend, it would take little imagine to conjure up some very colorful and descriptive words which would surely offend. However I did not do that, instead I chose to use words that would not be inflammatory, which you claim are dehumanizing, asif you're some sort of victim. You do not understand the meaning of what it is to dehumanize. Adolph Hitler and the Nazi party dehumanized approximately 6 million jews (homosexuals as well) during the holocaust by their savage, inhumane treatment which led to them being exterminated like rats. THAT is DEHUMANIZING! You need to learn to chose your words more wisely. On that note, you might also want to look up the definition of the words you find to be so.....dehumanizing. Better yet, let's look at them together, shall we?

1) Lifestyle: noun. the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

2) Orientation: noun. the direction of someone's interest or attitude, esp. political or sexual

3) Preference: noun. a greater liking for one alternative over another or others

It would seem to me the words I chose were entirely appropriate because they accurately illustrate your choices. I never even mentioned that you're gay, only that it doesn't need to be mentioned when discussing gun rights. The rest you did yourself. As for the Pink Pistols, they openly identify themselves as a gay activist organization. By advertising that fact, you once again are making a public statement for the whole world to see, your sexual preference. Why even make a point of it? Why mention it at all? If you're for gun rights, be for gun rights. Most people, myself included don't really care or need to know about your sexual orientation.

However, when people ask for my support, which was the intended purpose for this thread, I must first evaluate whether the platform serves the needs of ALL GUN OWNERS or caters to those of a particular gay minority group. Pink Pistols identifies itself as a gay activists organization. Yes, open to all, but still gay nonetheless. The opening quote on the webpage says it very clearly. "
"Thirty-one states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. " --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

My contributions to 2A organizations whether they be financial, volunteerism or otherwise serves to benefit ALL GUN OWNERS. This includes you Gray and all rest of the gay community. Do you care about my gun rights? Or do you only care about gay gun rights? If it were a Christian gun rights group, or Jewish, Muslim, would you be willing to align yourself with a group who you do not identify with? I'm not much of a betting man, but the odds are you wouldn't.

It's common sense. Your gay, I'm not. You support gay gun rights (Pink Pistols). I just support gun rights, period, mostly through 2A Foundation and others. So what's the problem? At the end of the day, we are on the same side of the issue. I'm surprised you do not see that. As I said in my first post, we can work together, shoulder to shoulder for a common goal (gun rights for everyone) but it won't be under a rainbow colored flag.

This thread is done. Somebody stick a fork in it.

You know, all of that ranting and raving about "gay" this and "panties" that, you completely miss the point of what the Pink Pistols are. We are not here to convince you. We are here to convince that community; and the more you dog-whistle us publicly, the more you folks publicly call us a "preference", a "lifestyle", or an "agenda", you make the jobs of myself, tboyer, and Nicki tremendously more difficult. You also help our anti-gun enemies who will use this to add to the stereotype that "gunnies are hateful bigots".

One of my friends lurks here but doesn't post here. He's moderately interested in gun ownership and would be interested in carrying. However, he sees stuff like this and shakes his head at what's being expressed here. He will never do grassroots outreach for CGN because people like you drive him away with your denigrating statements of him and I (Note, he is 100 percent supportive of CGF because litigation is independent of politics for the most part).

He will also never join the NRA because of the perception that that NRA means "National Republican Association", and the same goes for CRPA as well. He shies away from anything remotely political involving us because of people LIKE YOU who continually dehumanize me by calling us a "lifestyle". You also push away the "straight-allies" and cement the perception that gun owners are bigoted pigs. Thanks for costing us allies on the margin, T-A.

If the larger gay political community starts massively allying themselves with anti-gun forces in this state to push gun ban zones for carry license holders post-SCOTUS carry case because they believe that your attitude of dehumanization being supposedly common means an increased likely-hood of shootings and murders of members of the gay community by the "gunnies", all of us gun owners who live, work, and vacation in California would be totally screwed, save a CGF TRO hail mary. Only the Pink Pistols in California can put a stop to that, and if you continue slinging arrows into our backs like you're doing, we will fail at that task because the question we'll be asked by politicians are along the lines of "Well, those gun people don't actually have your back".

Comprende?

hoffmang
08-19-2011, 9:08 PM
Same problem with ugly ones I guess...

Glad to know you're equally intolerant. Kind of sounds like Sarah Brady on gun owners. She rejects them because gun ownership is wrong in her eyes and she's equally morally sure of her position.

-Gene

AEC1
08-19-2011, 9:10 PM
There are no laws banning the display of those kind of toys by private individuals under California state law. There certainly isn't in San Francisco or Los Angeles or West Hollywood. It may be socially unacceptable for you, but it is not unlawful.

As for the "assless chaps" thing, all they have to do is wear bikini underwear and they would be lawful.

Right back to the UOC thing just cause it is legal dont make it right.



I find the movement distasteful and rude, the photos that were posted here were completely out of line with the family safe rules of this site.

I will not ever support any organization that marches with dildos in public where children have a right to be.

I am very disappointed that the board at calguns who I thought to be very much about family as well as 2A issues would support such things. I mean the girls with guns thread was closed due to showing girls in skimpy clothes, but dildos are ok. And yes I know that the forum is not part of the board for political activity... but they are closely related...

Gene you mentioned nothing goes on at pride parades that your minor daughters should not see once they are adults. That is because those types of things belong behind closed doors, not on public streets. I mentioned that I have been to a pride parade, I assure you I had not intended to go. But I had not payed attention to the local news and did not realize that the parade was that day and was spending the day downtown with my family, and turned the corner to a huge crowd, "cool lets see what the crowd is about, maybe it is a street festival" is what my then 8 year old son said, so we investigated. It did not turn out well... We were on a public street and before we made it back to the car witnessed things and acts that would have sent straight people to jail. I dont care what the political agenda is that is wrong as can be.

You want rights fine you have them, you are as human as any other here and deserve the same rights and protection but that does not give you special privileges that you can expose my children to that filth!!! I will not ever support or advocate anyone march or witness anything to do with that disgusting grotesque display of immorality. Intercourse and the human body are meant for the enjoyment of two people in privacy, not in front of my 8 year old son!!!

AEC1
08-19-2011, 9:13 PM
Glad to know you're equally intolerant. Kind of sounds like Sarah Brady on gun owners. She rejects them because gun ownership is wrong in her eyes and she's equally morally sure of her position.

-Gene

Not intolerant at all, I feel that it is wrong. That is my opinion. I also don't like sushi, again my opinion.

I am not trying to take away anyone's right to be gay, or even get married.

Sarah Brady has a right to not own guns, even to try and convince others not to own guns, but she cant take mine away from me.

I have the right to not like sushi, and tell others it can be unwise to eat raw fish, but cant tell them they cant.

See the difference?

Librarian
08-19-2011, 9:16 PM
This seems to be going in circles.

Closed.