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capturedlive
08-17-2011, 7:57 PM
A friend who owns a liquor store is giving me his S&W .38 snubnose because it's always made his wife uncomfortable and he knows I've coveted it. Now here's the rub: He obtained the gun 25 years ago when a customer wanted to buy a case of liquor, didn't have enough money, so they made a trade. I very much want the gun, but I'm torn. If I try to register it, I might find out it was involved in a crime and I'll have to say where I got it and get my friend in trouble. If I don't register it and find myself in a situation where I have to turn over the gun, I'll have some heavy-duty 'splainin' to do.

Let's say I do go register it, and the gun is clean, but it has no paper trail? Will that complicate my getting to keep it? Any thoughts what you might do in such a situation?

Kerplow
08-17-2011, 8:00 PM
sounds like more trouble than it's worth. :shrug:

If the gun is clean I don't see why the lack of a paper trail would be an issue. many people own unregistered handguns that are completely legal.

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about should chime in soon.

zhyla
08-17-2011, 8:09 PM
25 years ago? Sounds like it can't possibly be a problem. The serial number can't possibly be in one of our new-fangled databases, can it?

RandyD
08-17-2011, 8:45 PM
As I recall, prior to January 1, 1991, it was legal to transfer a firearm without going through a FFL, so if your friend acquired the gun 25 years ago, then he acquired it legally. Next, if it was stolen, I believe a stolen firearm stays in the federal database for only ten years, so most likely if it was stolen there are no existing records. If your friend sold you the handgun before December 31, 1990, then you would have also acquired it legally.

G60
08-17-2011, 9:53 PM
That it's not currently registered is no problem, but the transfer from him to you must be done through an FFL.

none of this volreg nonsense after the fact.

Munk
08-17-2011, 10:27 PM
You're better off just doing the PPT. In theory your friend has clear title because the transfer was legal at the time he did it. This means he has the ability to transfer the gun in the present day without issue. If the gun DOES turn out to be stolen/whatever, then the WORST that can happen is confiscation, and a conversation with the police that goes nowhere and you lose your 35$ for the transfer fees.

The only problems would be if you or your friend were felons, or some other rediculous scenario that makes this more complicated than can be known.

Librarian
08-17-2011, 10:38 PM
Yep, that's it.

Summary:

25 years ago was pre-1991, so any transfer before then is OK.

PPT is the way to legally make the transfer, through an FFL now. Doesn't have to be any money exchanged, except fees to the FFL and maybe the cost of the HSC.

If it pops up on the 'stolen' list, confiscation is the likely result. Nobody test fires PPT guns, so there's no possibility any other kind of crime might be noticed.

capturedlive
08-18-2011, 6:50 PM
Well, that seems easy enough. It might almost be worth the $35 to learn that the gun had a colorful past.

Thank you all for your responses.

fairfaxjim
08-18-2011, 6:55 PM
Well, that seems easy enough. It might almost be worth the $35 to learn that the gun had a colorful past.

Thank you all for your responses.

What you are really likely to learn is that you have a new to you S&W and are $35 lighter for the priviledge of having the state stick their nose if your stuff!!

Cowboy T
08-18-2011, 7:02 PM
This is one reason I am "no longer in California".

cyrus
12-08-2011, 2:19 PM
What if the gun is post 1991

ckprax
12-08-2011, 2:33 PM
What if the gun is post 1991

The statute of limitations is 3 years. The burden of proof is on them. Loose lips sink ships.

aermotor
12-08-2011, 2:54 PM
Bottom line, PPT at an FFL.

BigDogatPlay
12-08-2011, 2:54 PM
If the gun was entered into AFS as stolen at some point, and never was cleared out, then it's almost certainly still there.

As others have said if the transfer was more than 25 years ago it was perfectly legal and absolutely in the norm that there would be no registration. My suggestion is that the OP and the owner of the gun visit the nearest FFL, do a PPT and call it good.

alfred1222
12-08-2011, 3:30 PM
I think that your friend legally acquired it 25 years ago, but to do the transfer now, you would have to go through an FFL

stix213
12-08-2011, 3:58 PM
If you're concerned the gun could have been used in a crime, then registration is the last thing I'd worry about. What do you think will happen if LE ever runs the S/N of your gun? Don't think you and your gun will never ever have a LEO encounter.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=222779&d=1312849428

Wherryj
12-09-2011, 9:59 AM
25 years ago? Sounds like it can't possibly be a problem. The serial number can't possibly be in one of our new-fangled databases, can it?

Perhaps the CSI team will be able to track the serial number from the "ballistic fingerprint" of the rounds at that crime scene 30 years ago...

Oh, wait, if that worked they would have done it 30 years ago. I'd agree that there probably isn't much worry about the gun having been involved in a crime.

easy
12-09-2011, 6:47 PM
$35.00 38 snubbie. DO IT!

dantodd
12-09-2011, 7:19 PM
If you're concerned the gun could have been used in a crime, then registration is the last thing I'd worry about. What do you think will happen if LE ever runs the S/N of your gun? Don't think you and your gun will never ever have a LEO encounter.


Huh? Do all your crime guns stamp their serial numbers on the bullet as it leaves the barrel? I'm just trying to figure out how the serial number would be associated in any way with a "crime gun" other than a theft report.

Munk
12-10-2011, 12:47 AM
Huh? Do all your crime guns stamp their serial numbers on the bullet as it leaves the barrel? I'm just trying to figure out how the serial number would be associated in any way with a "crime gun" other than a theft report.

To me, "crimegun" means a gun that was reported stolen (in the sense that cops are looking for it), or was owned by a person who is convicted of a felony (or who otherwise became prohibited) who conveniently "misplaced" his firearm before it was to be surrendered/sold/whatever.

It could also be guns sold to people who are later determined to be straw purchasers (similar to the previous group).

jbt56
12-10-2011, 6:35 AM
Personally, I would have never said a word about the thing. I always think it's odd that my pistols have been bought brand new at local stores, within the past 10 years, but aside from the receipts, I have no proof they're mine, legally or not. It's not like a car where you have a pink slip and registration for the glove box.
I don't know what a LEO can find out by calling in the # of my guns- does that show 'registered owner'?
I'd love to have at least one that wasn't 'on the books' simply because they can't take away what they don't know you have.

akcooper9
12-10-2011, 7:27 AM
I'd love to have at least one that wasn't 'on the books' simply because they can't take away what they don't know you have.

Wise man! To the PO...do you know any cops? Have them run the serial number and see what comes back. Then proceed with the info you have via the 'few' options you have :)

dantodd
12-10-2011, 8:15 AM
Wise man! To the PO...do you know any cops? Have them run the serial number and see what comes back. Then proceed with the info you have via the 'few' options you have :)

There are not a 'few' options. There is ONE way to legally acquire the firearm; transfer it through a CA FFL. Suggesting doing anything else, either blatantly or with a wink and a nod, is foolish. I don't believe CalGuns.net condones recommending people commit crimes.

HowardW56
12-10-2011, 8:23 AM
A friend who owns a liquor store is giving me his S&W .38 snubnose because it's always made his wife uncomfortable and he knows I've coveted it. Now here's the rub: He obtained the gun 25 years ago when a customer wanted to buy a case of liquor, didn't have enough money, so they made a trade. I very much want the gun, but I'm torn. If I try to register it, I might find out it was involved in a crime and I'll have to say where I got it and get my friend in trouble. If I don't register it and find myself in a situation where I have to turn over the gun, I'll have some heavy-duty 'splainin' to do.

Let's say I do go register it, and the gun is clean, but it has no paper trail? Will that complicate my getting to keep it? Any thoughts what you might do in such a situation?

You and your friend should go to a FFL and do a PPT....

You end up with a nice gun and never have to look back...

fiddletown
12-10-2011, 8:37 AM
... I always think it's odd that my pistols have been bought brand new at local stores, within the past 10 years, but aside from the receipts, I have no proof they're mine, legally or not. It's not like a car where you have a pink slip and registration for the glove box.....Which is a good reason to save your receipts, for guns or other expensive and often stolen items.

HowardW56
12-10-2011, 8:47 AM
Which is a good reason to save your receipts, for guns or other expensive and often stolen items.

I use Excel to maintain a log that is similar to a FFL's A&D book...

fiddletown
12-10-2011, 8:52 AM
I use Excel to maintain a log that is similar to a FFL's A&D book...The actual document from the seller would be better. It's something created by someone else -- not you.

HowardW56
12-10-2011, 9:09 AM
The actual document from the seller would be better. It's something created by someone else -- not you.

I retain the sales recepts & DROS worksheets also....

otteray
12-10-2011, 11:07 PM
This is one reason I am "no longer in California".

I'm sorry you've left, but glad you have not completely abandoned us.

I've always appreciated your Lee Pro 1000 Progressive Press Videos (http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/pro1000.html)

Ron-Solo
12-10-2011, 11:13 PM
You and your friend should go to a FFL and do a PPT....

You end up with a nice gun and never have to look back...

This!

akcooper9
12-11-2011, 7:05 AM
There are not a 'few' options. There is ONE way to legally acquire the firearm; transfer it through a CA FFL. Suggesting doing anything else, either blatantly or with a wink and a nod, is foolish. I don't believe CalGuns.net condones recommending people commit crimes.

I guess in today's world I have to be more 'PC'

Instead of the word 'few' I should have used a different 'sentence'

At the end of the day, the guy can pick the LEGAL option or the illegal option. No matter how you look at it, he has options. Obviously you and I would pick the legal way. Deep down the guy has a choice/decision or a 'few' options as I put it earlier. (I guess the :) meant I was suggesting illegal which I was not. So no need to assume)