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lhecker51
08-17-2011, 7:07 AM
So, what exactly is a Lone Wolf terrorist in the minds of the Obama administration? Remember the DHS stating that combat vets who are upset with the current administration and may affiliate with a local militia are to be watched as potential domestic terrorists. Now they are alluding to the fact that if you are a gun owner and you are upset with the government that you are a potential lone wolf terrorist.

As the story goes in the link below, you must first identify and vilify the enemy (gun owners) and scare the hell out of the public in order to pass anti-gun legislation.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/08/17/obamas-lone-wolf-talk-is-really-about-gun-control/

What is interesting is that Obama knows this is unconstitutional and therefore is using the UN and may use the Patriot Act or a crisis to circumvent our rights. He has many actions in play concurrently which are geared to influence the people into giving up their rights to feel "Safe". I don't know about the rest of you, but I believe we willingly gave up many rights to the Patriot Act in the name of national security and general public safety. Operation Fast & Furious was a failed attempt to build evidence against our citizens to fuel his anti-gun agenda, in my opinion.

You can't implement the "Change" that he envisions with an armed citizenry.

Since we have all registered our guns here in California and now the feds want these lists, what do you feel will be the next act in the show? If we do experience riots, could martial law or just a simple state of emergency be used to disarm us like what happened in New Orleans? They will have the lists and know exactly where to go. Given that, I will be prepared accordingly and that is all I will say.

And just what is the current profile of a lone wolf terrorist?

1. You own a gun.
2. Or you own a gun.
3. Or you own a gun.
4. Any of the above.

The gun-control lobby and the current administration do not have much time to act. 2012 is coming fast so I expect that the anti-gun pace will pick up very fast or will be left alone until after the election depending on Obama's handlers perception of threat to the re-election campaign. There is always the kamikaze option that Obama may exercise if he determines re-election is not likely. If that happens, I expect that he will work fast.

I love the article's equation:

Thousands of potential Lone Wolf killers + liberal gun laws = need to remove the guns from the potential killers

The anti's have resorted to sophistry to defend the indefensible. Once you remove the logical fallacies from there argument, they are left with none to defend leaving them with the only tool left: A LOUD sophist emotional appeal. And if that don't work, bring in the thugs to forcefully win the day.

RazzB7
08-17-2011, 7:10 AM
:TFH::TFH::TFH: 3rd post I've seen this morning on this (in the last 15 minutes, no less) Tinfoil is strong this morning! :TFH::TFH::TFH:

HowardW56
08-17-2011, 7:11 AM
:TFH::TFH::TFH: 3rd post I've seen this morning on this (in the last 15 minutes, no less) Tinfoil is strong this morning! :TFH::TFH:


:iagree:

MultiCaliber
08-17-2011, 7:20 AM
Mehh, nothing significantly anti-gun will get through the current US congress. The dangerous time for us, federal legislation-wise, was between the '08-'10 elections. And they had other fish to fry. Don't worry about it, man. Even their high capacity magazine bans in the wake of the AZ shooting of US Rep. Giffords and others was a fail.

Keep your stuff clean and well lubricated and easily loadable, be vigilant, then live as free and well as you can. Over stressing about the antis could drive any of us insane.

cdtx2001
08-17-2011, 7:22 AM
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

BTW, CA passed a law that makes "Katrinaing" firearms by CA LEAs illegal. Of course, when the SHTF we'll see how well they follow the law.


Oh and another thing... Being a "lone wolf", is that the same as a One Man Wolf Pack???

http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/danfouts14/onemanwolfpack.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee133/dajunk/onemanwolfpack.jpg

swilson
08-17-2011, 7:28 AM
Sounds like an Executive Order is brewing, part of the "under the radar" idea. As gun ownership is beginning to become publicly accepted again (remember all the guns sold after 9/11 and how politicians had heart attacks because of it?) those in power will try to make us look like lunatics/racists/rednecks/etc...

Also I think it would be foolish to think that federal databases aren't already full of our personal information with everything from firearm purchases to sexual orientation.

ZombieTactics
08-17-2011, 7:31 AM
The phrase "Lone Wolf Terrorist" seems to have been initially fabricated in an attempt to minimize the threat perceived by people like Hassan at Fort Hood. If someone is a "Lone Wolf", it means that they are "just some random crazy ... nothing really to worry about, isolated, Islam is a religion of peace, move along, nothing to see here." The idea seems to have been to dissuade people from believing that there was any organized threat or wider cell of operatives, despite evidence (i.e. in Hassan's case) of long-term, international conspiracies and planning.

Fine. But the powers that be seem to have realized - as a propaganda tool - that the phrase "Lone Wolf" has an even scarier emotional impact, as people are generally more terrified of the unknown and random than they are any organized threat.

As such, just about ANY incident involving a shooting is at some time or another called the act of a "Lone Wolf Terrorist", instead of "crazy nut shoots some people" regardless of actual motivation. The recent shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords comes to mind in this respect.

You have a gun? That makes YOU a "potential Lone Wolf".

Skullster
08-17-2011, 7:32 AM
Regarding tin foil, Just got a call from the NRA beggin me for more money cause the UN wants to take my guns. TIN FOIL? It's true the administration said that vets and other patriotic American types could be potential terrorists. TIN FOIL? Then Obama makes the link between terrorist's and a lone "gunman" in Norway. TIN FOIL? Reminds me of the old saying...When they came for the Jews, I didn't say anything cause I wasn't Jewish. TIN FOIL?

On the other hand, I see the headlines of muggings on the east coast, Wisconsin, flash mobs raiding stores and what not and the thing that strikes me the most, is no one is armed or putting up a defense. With the exception of the man CCWing in the car-jacking incident. Keep up the great articles on defenseless people getting attacked and more people will desire a gun IMHO.

Do I think that anyone is going to take away my guns? NO
Do I think the government wants to place more restrictions on guns? YES

TIN FOIL? No I don't think so. JAFO

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 7:34 AM
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

BTW, CA passed a law that makes "Katrinaing" firearms by CA LEAs illegal. Of course, when the SHTF we'll see how well they follow the law.


As I stated in a another Katrina thread yesterday......Louisianna has RKBA in their state constitution and when the SHTF, did any level of gov't give a crap about that? EFF NO they didn't.

If anyone thinks 2A, state RKBA, Anti-state of emergency disarmament laws or whatever are really gonna mean one damn thing when the SHTF, or a a SHTF scenario is manufactured you need to wake the EFF UP! Just like gun control laws only affect the law-abiding, laws restricting gov't only affect those willing to be restrained by them. Yet we see here on a daily basis reports of gov't and it's agents who as a matter of SOP ignore the restrains already placed on them, so when the SHTF, why should we expect any different?

I have to yet hear one report of any gov't agent present in New Orleans refusing to follow the order to disarm innocent, law-abiding civilians. When they order was given.....they carried out....PERIOD! It WILL happen again.....I would bet a case of ammo on it. Where and how wide-spread it will....who knows....but it will happen again. (And do we need to remind anyone of the LEOs recently convicted of murdering innocent, unarmed civilians in N.O. and then conspiring to cover it up?)

I think it's funny that people cry TFH on this stuff.....STUFF THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED IN THIS DECADE! IN OUR OWN COUNTRY! We all watched it LIVE ON TV! Why does it seem like such a stretch of the imagination that it could/will happen again?

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 7:35 AM
Also I think it would be foolish to think that federal databases aren't already full of our personal information with everything from firearm purchases to sexual orientation.

With all that information on hand, why doesn't the gummint set up a DATING SERVICE? Charge for it. Instantly, no more deficit. No, wait, not just charge for it, but make it a REQUIREMENT, like health care insurance. And put all those freelance dating services and hot-chat lines out of business. Yes! Nationalize sex!

Why do I have to think of everything?

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 7:38 AM
Keep your stuff clean and well lubricated and easily loadable, be vigilant, then live as free and well as you can. Over stressing about the antis could drive any of us insane.

I agree. This is still not stopping the administration from entertaining the idea of going around the the Constitution through the useful idiots at the UN. They will not succeed in any of these shenanigans and it is highly likely they will ultimately fail on all fronts. My point is to be cognitive of their actions but be prepared. This is not something that I loose sleep over nor does it cause me any anxiety.

I am just communicating THEIR insanity and what I expect will happen next. I never state they will be successful as there are way too many very high hurdles for them to leap.

I must say that I was alarmed at what did happen in New Orleans. We should be able to discuss this in a level headed manner as it actually did happen and will most likely happen again in the future.

Paranoid? No. Just prepared and living each day as if the aliens will attack at any minute. Just kidding.

(No he is not kidding)

Shut up! This is my comment! Start your own thread!

(Touchy today aren't we?)

Sorry about that. The voices get a little loud.

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 7:42 AM
I have to hear one report of any gov't agent present in New Orleans refusing to follow the order to disarm innocent, law-abiding civilians. When they order was given.....they carried out....PERIOD! It WILL happen again.....I would bet a case of ammo on it.

Pay up.

I'll even make it easy on ya. I'll take a box of just plain old Sierra 168 gr MatchKing bullet (no loaded ammo) in .308

http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/05/20/gun-control-clip-u-s-troops-refused-to-confiscate-guns-during-katrina-martial-law/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY

http://justmytruth.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/katrina-hero-refused-to-confiscate-citizens-guns/

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/oath-keeping-national-guardsmen-refused-katrina-gun-confiscation

and many more.

There. Now you've heard the report... :)

dalriaden
08-17-2011, 7:43 AM
TIN FOIL? Reminds me of the old saying...When they came for the Jews, I didn't say anything cause I wasn't Jewish. TIN FOIL?




In Germany they first came for the communists,
and I didnt speak up because I wasnt a communist.
Then they came for the jews,
and I didnt speak up because I wasn't a jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didnt speak up because I wasnt a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didnt speak up because I was a protestant.
Then They came for me - And by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemoller

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 7:49 AM
Pay up.

I'll even make it easy on ya. I'll take a box of just plain old Sierra 168 gr MatchKing bullet (no loaded ammo) in .308

http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/05/20/gun-control-clip-u-s-troops-refused-to-confiscate-guns-during-katrina-martial-law/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY

http://justmytruth.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/katrina-hero-refused-to-confiscate-citizens-guns/

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/oath-keeping-national-guardsmen-refused-katrina-gun-confiscation

and many more.

There. Now you've heard the report... :)

Thank God there are level headed soldiers. The problem is that the majority of them did participate in disarming citizens for fear of being charged with disobeying an order. Whether the order is a legal one or not is up for debate between lawyers that complicate simple black and white issues into a million shades of gray.

By the way, I read the bet to be that it will happen again in the future;)

cdtx2001
08-17-2011, 7:50 AM
Also I think it would be foolish to think that federal databases aren't already full of our personal information with everything from firearm purchases to sexual orientation.

HAHAHAHA!!!!

I can see the report now....


"Subject 0919838775-L:

Owns 24 firearms total with over 3000rnds of ammunition for each caliber.

Sexual orientation: Straight

Positions preferred: the pile driver, doggy, the t-square, spooning, 69, 68, the canyon yodel, clown type, dirty sanchez, disco ball, gangster lean, Hawaiian jiggle, bootleg rock star, good cop bad cop, and missionary.

Positions definition: the "bootleg rock star" is when you have ___ sitting on a ______ wearing a ____ with a _____ swinging from a _____ and you put _______ in _______ while singing ______ and watch _____ while your neighbor ________ and then _______ with a contract_______ while being videoed. After that you _______ while inserting______ into _______ with _______ and _______ with an open hand ________ on the side of ________ with ______ doing _______ then run to _________ while drinking a beer with ______ on top of ______ holding _________ . (certain words omitted for congressional reports sanitation)"



Yeah, that would be a great little file on someone...

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 7:56 AM
And right now somebody at Google is wondering why the heck there is a sudden spike in searches for "bootleg rock star."

A concept for which there are no hits (or so I'm told).

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 7:57 AM
Pay up.

I'll even make it easy on ya. I'll take a box of just plain old Sierra 168 gr MatchKing bullet (no loaded ammo) in .308

http://www.morningliberty.com/2010/05/20/gun-control-clip-u-s-troops-refused-to-confiscate-guns-during-katrina-martial-law/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HRZfvtYlCY

http://justmytruth.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/katrina-hero-refused-to-confiscate-citizens-guns/

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/oath-keeping-national-guardsmen-refused-katrina-gun-confiscation

and many more.

There. Now you've heard the report... :)

You misread my post......the bet was that disarmament by gov't agents during a crisis would happen again.

Thanks for the story links too.....I had not heard that one. Glad to see someone did the right thing. BUT......<cringe> allow me to be technical for a moment, he and his unit were never actually given an order to disarm anyone, nor was that order given to anyone in the area they were sent to. Find me a story of someone who was IN New Orleans, and WAS given the direct order to disarm the citizens and refused. I'm not saying there is not, just saying it hasn't been reported. If there were, I applaud them for their conviction. But the sad fact is that the vast majority in N.O. that were given that order carried it out w/o question.

Where was the guy standing up and telling those under him to belay that order and threatening to relieve his superior of command if the order was not recinded? Where was the N.O. Police Capt. or Lt. that threatened to place the Police Chief under arrest if he did not recind the order? Cuz that's what it's gonna take.

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 8:00 AM
You misread my post......the bet was that disarmament by gov't agents during a crisis would happen again.

OK, you're off the hook.

(I would have let you go with just a contribution to Calguns)...

frankm
08-17-2011, 8:02 AM
Also I think it would be foolish to think that federal databases aren't already full of our personal information with everything from firearm purchases to sexual orientation.

You must assume that they have. Govies are govies, they do what govies do.

GrayWolf09
08-17-2011, 8:09 AM
Sounds like an Executive Order is brewing, part of the "under the radar" idea. As gun ownership is beginning to become publicly accepted again (remember all the guns sold after 9/11 and how politicians had heart attacks because of it?) those in power will try to make us look like lunatics/racists/rednecks/etc...

Also I think it would be foolish to think that federal databases aren't already full of our personal information with everything from firearm purchases to sexual orientation.

What if you lost your sexual orientation? Can you still purchase a firearm?;)

GrayWolf09
08-17-2011, 8:13 AM
:TFH::TFH::TFH: 3rd post I've seen this morning on this (in the last 15 minutes, no less) Tinfoil is strong this morning! :TFH::TFH::TFH:

I think I am starting to understand how the Nigerians make money on those stupid emails they send!

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 8:31 AM
I think I am starting to understand how the Nigerians make money on those stupid emails they send!
And exactly how does that contribute to the discussion? I am interested in how the related threads compare to a fraudulent Nigerian spam email. Are you calling the threads stupid? I will trust in your positive intent and give you a chance to clarify.

Number of related threads that pop up regarding relevant subject matter does not equal a tinfoil conspiracy. Please do not resort to the very same tactics the left use to marginalize those they disagree with. Here is something novel: Present a logical and respectful rebuttal.

I am a recently retired combat vet that fought for our national security and way of life and have personally seen the result of disarming a country's citizens, leaving after we declared mission accomplished, and the insurgents moving in to meat out their justice on the unarmed citizens. I state this so that you know what motivates my perspective and before you step in the wrong direction with me. I invite respectful debate but have absolutely no patience nor time for unwarranted insolence.

If you are going to comment, do so respectfully. Opinions are fine, just please elevate the discourse to that of constructive civility.

I direct this comment to not only you but all of the others that are pointing out the tinfoil crazies. I normally just let these kind of comments slide, but felt moved to rebut this baseless drivel. I can only speak for myself by stating I do not see the constructive contribution by attacking and categorizing contributors as paranoid tinfoil conspiracy mongers without support for this attribution. I am not your adversary and am on the same side of the issue.

I would wager that my perspective is generally supported by a significant number of members in this group and others nation-wide. Maybe I am in the wrong forum for my perspective but I do not believe this to be true.

Again, to all you that categorize my comments as the rantings of a paranoid tinfoil conspirator, please qualify those statements. I would never do that to you without proper attribution and it would be done respectfully. Feel free to PM me as this does not need to take up space in this thread.

williamd
08-17-2011, 9:06 AM
So, obummer thinks attacks will come from 'lone wolf terriosts like the trade tower'. How stupid! The towers were a well coordinated effort by many of his muslim buddies.

Psy Crow
08-17-2011, 9:17 AM
I am a recently retired combat vet that fought for our national security and way of life...

From this American: Thank you for your service to our country.
:)

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 9:21 AM
From this American: Thank you for your service to our country.
:)

Thank you sir. I don't regret one second of it as they were the most memorable and unique times of my life. My faith, parents, and service to country have made me the man I am today.

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 9:26 AM
I direct this comment to not only you but all of the others that are pointing out the tinfoil crazies.

Again I will state that I find it interesting that people will call "TFH" :TFH: on those that discuss the topic of something happening again in the near future....that on the grand scheme of things....JUST HAPPENED on American soil once already, and was carried about by agents of our own gov't. 2005/Katrina wasn't that long ago folks. :eek:

CalBear
08-17-2011, 9:32 AM
So he's used up the Mexican cartel angle and now he's looking for other ways to subvert the 2nd? Funny how a lot of left coasters agree with me that we shouldn't give up our freedoms for our security when it comes to the 1st, 4th and 5th amendment, but they believe in the exact opposite when it comes to the 2nd.

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 9:38 AM
You have a gun? That makes YOU a "potential Lone Wolf".

My point exactly. Now that we have been labeled, what will be the next step for the administration? One would think that the recent statements and actions of the administration and it's law enforcement departments, that something is brewing.

(That is fact and not tinfoil for those here that don't know the difference)

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 9:39 AM
So he's used up the Mexican cartel angle and now he's looking for other ways to subvert the 2nd? Funny how a lot of left coasters agree with me that we shouldn't give up our freedoms for our security when it comes to the 1st, 4th and 5th amendment, but they believe in the exact opposite when it comes to the 2nd.


Well with the whole Fast & Furious scandal breaking it's alot harder to use the Cartels as a scapegoat without having F&F thrown back in his face........so a new "shadow enemy" must be invented with which to scare the masses into surrender of their rights.

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 9:46 AM
My point exactly. Now that we have been labeled,
...

"Look! A pack of Lone Wolves!"

This is as funny as the three guys in the "X-Files" who called themselves (collectively) the Lone Gunmen.

Fate
08-17-2011, 9:57 AM
Well this the whole Fast & Furious scandal breaking it's alot harder to use the Cartels as a scapegoat without having F&F thrown back in his face........so a new "shadow enemy" must be invented with which to scare the masses into surrender of their rights.

Likely true.

The upside is that all these shenanigans point to the non-disputable fact that the government FEARS gunowners. Exactly the way it should be if you read any of the Founding Fathers' writings.

Thus, I'm not going to sweat it. We have them right where we actually want them. :)

CalBear
08-17-2011, 10:05 AM
Well this the whole Fast & Furious scandal breaking it's alot harder to use the Cartels as a scapegoat without having F&F thrown back in his face........so a new "shadow enemy" must be invented with which to scare the masses into surrender of their rights.
Yup. And for the record, I don't think anyone should brand this line of thinking as TFH-speak. Given our country's recording on curbing liberties over the last decade, and given Obama's under the table subversion of 2nd Amendment freedoms, I don't see how it's TFH at all to think that he will tie this lone wolf stuff to guns.

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Likely true.

The upside is that all these shenanigans point to the non-disputable fact that the government FEARS gunowners. Exactly the way it should be if you read any of the Founding Fathers' writings.

Thus, I'm not going to sweat it. We have them right where we actually want them. :)

The problem is they are not afraid enough to just stay in line and respect the liberties. I dont think they fear gunowners at all......I think they just see them as a tactical obstacle to their intended goal.

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 10:52 AM
"Look! A pack of Lone Wolves!"

This is as funny as the three guys in the "X-Files" who called themselves (collectively) the Lone Gunmen.

I fail to see the humor in this.

Whom exactly are you ridiculing? I did not assign the label nor the definition.

Wernher von Browning
08-17-2011, 11:21 AM
I fail to see the humor in this.

Whom exactly are you ridiculing? I did not assign the label nor the definition.

(Humor is no good if you have to explain it, but gosh, I like you...)

No. You didn't assign the label or the definition. Whom am I ridiculing? The antis who label us all as "lone wolves." (Look at your original post -- "So what exactly is a lone wolf terrorist..." also #7, #23).

Gee, lookit all the lone wolves!

or...

Darn it, we lost that election because we were outnumbered by a tiny minority!

Maestro Pistolero
08-17-2011, 12:21 PM
The inherent absurdity of subjecting 300 million people to restrictions that attempt to target a tiny handful of people who cannot be identified, whose behavior cannot be predicted, and who are on the far-flung, aberrant edge of human behavior ought to be self-evident.

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 12:25 PM
(Humor is no good if you have to explain it, but gosh, I like you...)

No. You didn't assign the label or the definition. Whom am I ridiculing? The antis who label us all as "lone wolves." (Look at your original post -- "So what exactly is a lone wolf terrorist..." also #7, #23).

Gee, lookit all the lone wolves!

or...

Darn it, we lost that election because we were outnumbered by a tiny minority!

Sorry if I seem a bit sensitive to the comments that have been made today but here is why:

As a combat vet I scrutinize government actions as close as they scrutinize mine and only because they are choosing to single out us combat vets as possible domestic terrorists. You can then see why I am sensitive to it.

I find myself asking myself the question, "is my reaction and beliefs that of a rational man or has my experiences in the sandbox pushed me to the edge of being paranoid and irrational?". I think every combat vet asks himself that.

It is because of this that I apply logic and critical thinking to the issues in hope that I never find myself too close to the edge.

I am on vacation at this time and have had time today to comment. Normally I a very busy engineering professional and do not sit at home dwelling on the latest outrage coming from our current administration.

Again, please excuse me for being a bit overbearing as their have been a few snide comments made by others today in this thread ;)

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 12:29 PM
The inherent absurdity of subjecting 300 million people to restrictions that attempt to target a tiny handful of people who cannot be identified, whose behavior cannot be predicted, and who are on the far-flung, aberrant edge of human behavior ought to be self-evident.

I agree. The question I have for our leadership is what exactly is the profile of a lone wolf? Does that include the DHS intel assessment of returning combat vets?

BC9696
08-17-2011, 12:37 PM
So, what exactly is a Lone Wolf terrorist in the minds of the Obama administration? Remember the DHS stating that combat vets who are upset with the current administration and may affiliate with a local militia are to be watched as potential domestic terrorists. Now they are alluding to the fact that if you are a gun owner and you are upset with the government that you are a potential lone wolf terrorist.

As the story goes in the link below, you must first identify and vilify the enemy (gun owners) and scare the hell out of the public in order to pass anti-gun legislation.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/08/17/obamas-lone-wolf-talk-is-really-about-gun-control/

What is interesting is that Obama knows this is unconstitutional and therefore is using the UN and may use the Patriot Act or a crisis to circumvent our rights. He has many actions in play concurrently which are geared to influence the people into giving up their rights to feel "Safe". I don't know about the rest of you, but I believe we willingly gave up many rights to the Patriot Act in the name of national security and general public safety. Operation Fast & Furious was a failed attempt to build evidence against our citizens to fuel his anti-gun agenda, in my opinion.

You can't implement the "Change" that he envisions with an armed citizenry.

Since we have all registered our guns here in California and now the feds want these lists, what do you feel will be the next act in the show? If we do experience riots, could martial law or just a simple state of emergency be used to disarm us like what happened in New Orleans? They will have the lists and know exactly where to go. Given that, I will be prepared accordingly and that is all I will say.

And just what is the current profile of a lone wolf terrorist?

1. You own a gun.
2. Or you own a gun.
3. Or you own a gun.
4. Any of the above.

The gun-control lobby and the current administration do not have much time to act. 2012 is coming fast so I expect that the anti-gun pace will pick up very fast or will be left alone until after the election depending on Obama's handlers perception of threat to the re-election campaign. There is always the kamikaze option that Obama may exercise if he determines re-election is not likely. If that happens, I expect that he will work fast.

I love the article's equation:

Thousands of potential Lone Wolf killers + liberal gun laws = need to remove the guns from the potential killers

The anti's have resorted to sophistry to defend the indefensible. Once you remove the logical fallacies from there argument, they are left with none to defend leaving them with the only tool left: A LOUD sophist emotional appeal. And if that don't work, bring in the thugs to forcefully win the day.


Clearly it is anybody BUT those entering our country illegally.

Dark Mod
08-17-2011, 12:38 PM
Why dont we just lock every citizen up in a cell and only release them for a few minutes at a time under strict supervision. That would keep any potential lone wolfs from striking, because even if you take their guns away, they can use household chemicles to make a bomb, get firearms illegally, or even use a regular kitchen knife. Hell even if you took all that stuff away, id be scared of what one man on a rampage could do with a sharpened stick before police had time to respond.

WatchMan
08-17-2011, 12:43 PM
The problem is they are not afraid enough to just stay in line and respect the liberties. I dont think they fear gunowners at all......I think they just see them as a tactical obstacle to their intended goal.

And I think this is why our battle is so difficult, and we do not generally resort to the slimy tactics they so love.

CalBear
08-17-2011, 12:44 PM
The scariest part of lone wolfs is they're Americans and they're hard to hone in on. And when I say scary, I'm not saying I'm scared of lone wolfs themselves, I'm scared of how far the government will overreach in an attempt to find them out.

I can see pushes for screening of every gun purchase (akin to a gun permit), further inspection of internet message boards, computer hard drive contents, library rentals, etc. Basically, the harder it is to find a potential terrorist, the more the government will invade our lives in their hunt.

Of course the rational way to deal with potential terrorism is a mix of protective measures and vigilance / security preparedness. The nice thing about these lone gunman shootings is they're easy to stop. Israel does it well. You just need a bunch of armed citizens / security.

1911su16b870
08-17-2011, 12:50 PM
Lone Wolves become so only when they decide to kill innocents.

Norsemen308
08-17-2011, 12:57 PM
in the last couple of years, you can see the shift in the liberal agenda, they do not want to single out organizations, they want to single out "lone wolves", and like you all have stated, this means the government will just dig deeper to "find/Make" their lone wolves... thats the problem, the government if it cannot find a problem it makes a problem. Liberal's will come to the table and say a man with 4 guns is NOT rational, therefore 5.516% more likely to harm others, then a man who owns 3 guns..... The government works on hard numbers and concrete theories... they do not see around a tree they want to see threw the tree... this is why they get so *** backwards...

gun toting monkeyboy
08-17-2011, 1:02 PM
:TFH::TFH::TFH: 3rd post I've seen this morning on this (in the last 15 minutes, no less) Tinfoil is strong this morning! :TFH::TFH:

You are out of your mind. Tinfoil isn't all that easy to come by. I know, I have looked. All you can normally find is aluminum foil, and everybody knows that isn't nearly as good at keeping out the mind control lasers...:D

curtisfong
08-17-2011, 1:07 PM
The inherent absurdity of subjecting 300 million people to restrictions that attempt to target a tiny handful of people who cannot be identified, whose behavior cannot be predicted, and who are on the far-flung, aberrant edge of human behavior ought to be self-evident.

People are stupid, error prone, panicky, irrational individuals. They demand this absurdity of their governments because they are incapable of objective risk analysis.

WatchMan
08-17-2011, 1:13 PM
People are stupid, error prone, panicky, irrational individuals. They demand this absurdity of their governments because they are incapable of objective risk analysis.

The irony is this is the government's excuse for why we are in such desperate need of a nanny state. :rolleyes:

curtisfong
08-17-2011, 1:33 PM
The irony is this is the government's excuse for why we are in such desperate need of a nanny state. :rolleyes:

LOL. So true. The cycle is self-sustaining. We truly deserve the government we have it seems. Sigh.

GrayWolf09
08-17-2011, 1:33 PM
And exactly how does that contribute to the discussion? I am interested in how the related threads compare to a fraudulent Nigerian spam email. Are you calling the threads stupid? I will trust in your positive intent and give you a chance to clarify.

Number of related threads that pop up regarding relevant subject matter does not equal a tinfoil conspiracy. Please do not resort to the very same tactics the left use to marginalize those they disagree with. Here is something novel: Present a logical and respectful rebuttal.

I am a recently retired combat vet that fought for our national security and way of life and have personally seen the result of disarming a country's citizens, leaving after we declared mission accomplished, and the insurgents moving in to meat out their justice on the unarmed citizens. I state this so that you know what motivates my perspective and before you step in the wrong direction with me. I invite respectful debate but have absolutely no patience nor time for unwarranted insolence.

If you are going to comment, do so respectfully. Opinions are fine, just please elevate the discourse to that of constructive civility.

I direct this comment to not only you but all of the others that are pointing out the tinfoil crazies. I normally just let these kind of comments slide, but felt moved to rebut this baseless drivel. I can only speak for myself by stating I do not see the constructive contribution by attacking and categorizing contributors as paranoid tinfoil conspiracy mongers without support for this attribution. I am not your adversary and am on the same side of the issue.

I would wager that my perspective is generally supported by a significant number of members in this group and others nation-wide. Maybe I am in the wrong forum for my perspective but I do not believe this to be true.

Again, to all you that categorize my comments as the rantings of a paranoid tinfoil conspirator, please qualify those statements. I would never do that to you without proper attribution and it would be done respectfully. Feel free to PM me as this does not need to take up space in this thread.

Where to begin? Thank you for your service. I too am a vet and my last duty assignment was with a Special Forces unit.

Why did I call a tinfoil on your post? Let's see. President Obama said he believed that an attack by a single terrorist was more likely than a coordinated effort. There was no mention of guns or gun control or anything of the sort. Yet you immediately interpreted this as a call for gun control. Why? What basis do you have for that assertion?

Secondly, you and at least two other posters in this forum alone started threads saying the exact same thing and linking to gun control within 15 minutes of each other. Does this seem like a coordinated effort of some sort.

Third, your link is to The Blaze, Glenn Beck's website. Because it is Glenn Beck who was too crazy even for Fox News, that should be tinfoil enough, but Mr. Beck is fond of putting anti-gun words into President Obama's mouth when he said no such thing.

Finally, if you want to play Miss Manners on this site, civility would be much better served by your chastising those who call the duly elected President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces cute little names like Obummer or Odumbo. Real class there and certainly a great contribution to "constructive civility" as you so quaintly put it. ;)

jwkincal
08-17-2011, 1:51 PM
Where to begin? Thank you for your service. I too am a vet and my last duty assignment was with a Special Forces unit.

Why did I call a tinfoil on your post? Let's see. President Obama said he believed that an attack by a single terrorist was more likely than a coordinated effort. There was no mention of guns or gun control or anything of the sort.



"The risk that we're especially concerned over right now is the lone wolf terrorist, somebody with a single weapon being able to carry out wide-scale massacres of the sort that we saw in Norway recently," he said. "You know, when you've got one person who is deranged or driven by a hateful ideology, they can do a lot of damage, and it's a lot harder to trace those lone wolf operators."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/16/obama-lone-wolf-terror_n_928880.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec1_lnk1%7C87152

How is that "not mentioning guns?" Graywolf, I realize you have a compulsion to be the voice of sanity around here (and I don't dispute that it may sometimes be necessary), but you gotta keep those shot groups tighter! Your beanie-buddies would be aghast! Or perhaps you are one of those guys like the supply clerk in my Jump School class who wore the green beret because of his assignment and not because of tactical acumen?

GrayWolf09
08-17-2011, 2:01 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/16/obama-lone-wolf-terror_n_928880.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl16%7Csec1_lnk1%7C87152

How is that "not mentioning guns?" Graywolf, I realize you have a compulsion to be the voice of sanity around here (and I don't dispute that it may sometimes be necessary), but you gotta keep those shot groups tighter! Your beanie-buddies would be aghast! Or perhaps you are one of those guys like the supply clerk in my Jump School class who wore the green beret because of his assignment and not because of tactical acumen?

Fair enough criticism. I read the Yahoo News article which did not mention weapons. Congratulations, I had no idea you read the HuffPo.

It is a shorter leap from what was said than from no mention of weapons at all but it is still a leap to say that President Obama was talking about gun control rather than terrorism.

Thanks for the clarification and correction.:)

jwkincal
08-17-2011, 2:04 PM
Fair enough criticism. I read the Yahoo News article which did not mention weapons. Congratulations, I had no idea you read the HuffPo.
It is a shorter leap from what was said than from no mention of weapons at all but it is still a leap. Thanks for the clarification and correction.:)

You're quite welcome; and no offense I hope for heckling you on your military qualifications, anyone who finished jump school is OK by me even if they are a supply clerk...

But grunts still rule.

chead
08-17-2011, 2:51 PM
Obama is not going to take your guns away.

mag360
08-17-2011, 3:14 PM
Obama is not going to take your guns away.

obvious award goes to you! you win 1 internets. :rolleyes:

but who knows where they will go with this "lone wolf thing". Mandatory inspection of every gun owners hard drive or home to rule out potential "lone wolf" scenarios... i mean you have nothing to hide right? :43:

Maestro Pistolero
08-17-2011, 3:34 PM
Obama is not going to take your guns away.

Thanks for that. We know.

lhecker51
08-17-2011, 4:36 PM
Where to begin? Thank you for your service. I too am a vet and my last duty assignment was with a Special Forces unit.

Why did I call a tinfoil on your post? Let's see. President Obama said he believed that an attack by a single terrorist was more likely than a coordinated effort. There was no mention of guns or gun control or anything of the sort. Yet you immediately interpreted this as a call for gun control. Why? What basis do you have for that assertion?

Secondly, you and at least two other posters in this forum alone started threads saying the exact same thing and linking to gun control within 15 minutes of each other. Does this seem like a coordinated effort of some sort.

Third, your link is to The Blaze, Glenn Beck's website. Because it is Glenn Beck who was too crazy even for Fox News, that should be tinfoil enough, but Mr. Beck is fond of putting anti-gun words into President Obama's mouth when he said no such thing.

Finally, if you want to play Miss Manners on this site, civility would be much better served by your chastising those who call the duly elected President of the United States and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces cute little names like Obummer or Odumbo. Real class there and certainly a great contribution to "constructive civility" as you so quaintly put it. ;)

I see where you are coming from but disagree with all of your points. I do not desire to get into a protracted political debate with you and will agree to disagree. You can't change me and I can't change you but I can call you out when you get personal with me.

There are so many logical flaws with your conclusions:

You are obviously biased toward Obama and are making unsubstantiated statements regarding why Beck left Fox, but that does not matter to me. It only indicates how far you will go to get your point across. The fact that you insist on those that comment to be respectful of the president is laughable. Exactly what has he done to earn respect? It is their right to gripe.

Miss Manners? *(#))$*!!! My point is that you got personal with me when you insinuated that I am a paranoid conspiracy hack. What others say in their comments regarding their names for Obama has nothing to do with me and is no excuse for you being uncivil and personal. I respect the members of this forum until proved otherwise and will not get personal with them out of that respect but I will call Obama any damn name I please although I do not as I personally do not see what that contributes to the discussion. I will not kiss his A**. This is a 2A forum and my post was relevant and therefore deserving respect. You and others had no defensible reason for being insulting.

You opened your mouth before you researched the facts and made a critical mistake by ridiculing my post without any context whatsoever.

Two posts at the same time proves what exactly? Until you can prove a conspiracy, it might be prudent of you to hold your tongue. Your comment regarding the timing of comments is hypocritical. Many of us get up in the morning and read the very same news and may come to the same conclusions. I have not even read the other threads that you say are related. I can assure you there is no Beck conspiracy afoot.

Should I call you an ignorant blowhard for not researching the context before you word barfed all over the forum? You obviously did not read the article. Be respectful and I will not make you look silly. It is your choice. I make mistakes in my posts as well from time to time but I know better than to attack one at a personal level as that invites the comments that I have just laid on you. Your entire reply is insulting and you earned the terse response I am posting. You failed to support any of your assertions and therefore have no logical argument left to support.

Tarn_Helm
08-17-2011, 5:02 PM
:iagree:

We lone wolves are the only ones professional enuff . . . !

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/BOTTOMFORJESUSSMALLER.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/TinFoilHatArea.jpg

:troll:

lhecker51
08-18-2011, 7:56 AM
We lone wolves are the only ones professional enuff . . . !

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/BOTTOMFORJESUSSMALLER.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/TinFoilHatArea.jpg

:troll:

What does your sexual orientation have to do with the 2A and what purpose does your comment serve to further the discussion?

Uxi
08-18-2011, 8:34 AM
Obama is not going to take your guns away.

Most likely not. Still, any who thinks he'd be opposed to making it more inconvenient either doesn't know, is delusional, or deceitful regarding his history on the issue, much less his ideology. There's political reality and then what he really wants. The former undoubtedly mitigates the latter, but we're only a massacre or two away from "reasonable" (aka knee-jerk reactionary) regulation.

Falstaff
08-18-2011, 8:45 AM
Are we starting to understand the phrase "predictive programming"??

jeff762
08-18-2011, 11:06 AM
hahahaha! we're all being psyop'ed!

GrayWolf09
08-18-2011, 4:04 PM
So, what exactly is a Lone Wolf terrorist in the minds of the Obama administration? Remember the DHS stating that combat vets who are upset with the current administration and may affiliate with a local militia are to be watched as potential domestic terrorists. Now they are alluding to the fact that if you are a gun owner and you are upset with the government that you are a potential lone wolf terrorist.

As the story goes in the link below, you must first identify and vilify the enemy (gun owners) and scare the hell out of the public in order to pass anti-gun legislation.

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/08/17/obamas-lone-wolf-talk-is-really-about-gun-control/

What is interesting is that Obama knows this is unconstitutional and therefore is using the UN and may use the Patriot Act or a crisis to circumvent our rights. He has many actions in play concurrently which are geared to influence the people into giving up their rights to feel "Safe". I don't know about the rest of you, but I believe we willingly gave up many rights to the Patriot Act in the name of national security and general public safety. Operation Fast & Furious was a failed attempt to build evidence against our citizens to fuel his anti-gun agenda, in my opinion.

You can't implement the "Change" that he envisions with an armed citizenry.

Since we have all registered our guns here in California and now the feds want these lists, what do you feel will be the next act in the show? If we do experience riots, could martial law or just a simple state of emergency be used to disarm us like what happened in New Orleans? They will have the lists and know exactly where to go. Given that, I will be prepared accordingly and that is all I will say.

And just what is the current profile of a lone wolf terrorist?

1. You own a gun.
2. Or you own a gun.
3. Or you own a gun.
4. Any of the above.

The gun-control lobby and the current administration do not have much time to act. 2012 is coming fast so I expect that the anti-gun pace will pick up very fast or will be left alone until after the election depending on Obama's handlers perception of threat to the re-election campaign. There is always the kamikaze option that Obama may exercise if he determines re-election is not likely. If that happens, I expect that he will work fast.

I love the article's equation:

Thousands of potential Lone Wolf killers + liberal gun laws = need to remove the guns from the potential killers

The anti's have resorted to sophistry to defend the indefensible. Once you remove the logical fallacies from there argument, they are left with none to defend leaving them with the only tool left: A LOUD sophist emotional appeal. And if that don't work, bring in the thugs to forcefully win the day.

First, I never said you were paranoid or tinfoil. That was others. What I said was that I now understood why the Nigerian scammers make money. What I meant by that was that some people seem to accept uncritically whatever they read or watch or hear provided it resonates with their belief system. This is what Stephen Colbert calls "truthiness".

President Obama's speech was about terrorism not gun control. But you believe it refers to gun control. Why, I asked you? Your only response that is not threatening or name calling is the article on Glenn Beck's website. If you go to that article the connection he makes between "lone wolf terrorist" and "gun control" is that some obscure reporter used the term "lone wolf terrorist" and easy access to guns in the same sentence six months ago. The implication is that there is a vast conspiracy involving the "liberal media" and the government to seize all guns. Pure tinfoil, but typical Beck. He sees connections and conspiracies where none exist and puts words in people's mouths.

Secondly, the DHS report has proven prophetic. Following the election of our first black president right wing militias and hate groups have proliferated at an alarming pace.

Thirdly, I did not and will not "willingly" give up my rights under the Patriot Act as you so cavalierly put it. I value my First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendment rights just as much as I do my Second Amendment rights. One of my biggest disappointments is that President Obama has not called for the repeal of the Patriot Act.

Please tell me what you believe to be the "Change" that President Obama wants to implement but can't with an armed citizenry.

Finally, I have not and will not register my guns in California!

cdennyb
08-18-2011, 7:44 PM
wow, you guys are pretty darn good at debating! I'm honestly impressed and suggest you keep it up, because I've learned a lot here. (for real, no joke.)

CDFingers
08-19-2011, 4:13 AM
The article is from Glenn Beck's organization. The only person in the article calling for more gun control is Daniel Webster of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy Research.

This is Beck trying to foment idiocy. There is no substance to the article.

I agree that it's tin foil hat material...

CDFingers

lhecker51
08-19-2011, 8:20 AM
First, I never said you were paranoid or tinfoil. That was others. What I said was that I now understood why the Nigerian scammers make money. What I meant by that was that some people seem to accept uncritically whatever they read or watch or hear provided it resonates with their belief system. This is what Stephen Colbert calls "truthiness".

President Obama's speech was about terrorism not gun control. But you believe it refers to gun control. Why, I asked you? Your only response that is not threatening or name calling is the article on Glenn Beck's website. If you go to that article the connection he makes between "lone wolf terrorist" and "gun control" is that some obscure reporter used the term "lone wolf terrorist" and easy access to guns in the same sentence six months ago. The implication is that there is a vast conspiracy involving the "liberal media" and the government to seize all guns. Pure tinfoil, but typical Beck. He sees connections and conspiracies where none exist and puts words in people's mouths.

Secondly, the DHS report has proven prophetic. Following the election of our first black president right wing militias and hate groups have proliferated at an alarming pace.

Thirdly, I did not and will not "willingly" give up my rights under the Patriot Act as you so cavalierly put it. I value my First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendment rights just as much as I do my Second Amendment rights. One of my biggest disappointments is that President Obama has not called for the repeal of the Patriot Act.

Please tell me what you believe to be the "Change" that President Obama wants to implement but can't with an armed citizenry.

Finally, I have not and will not register my guns in California!

That is more like it. Now I get the drift of your points as you have added more context.

I have no problem debating issues with anyone up until the point that they get uncivil and insulting. If I were to feel one was a bit over the top, I would comment with enough context to support that contention from the very beginning to avoid any misunderstanding.

Regarding the article, this is their commentary and therefore deserves closer scrutiny and discussion by groups such as ours. I find it plausible that the point of the Lone Wolf debate may be another veiled threat to 2A rights through even more onerous regulation. Although California is not as bad as New York, we could easily be in the same situation if we do not fight every attempt by our elected officials to regulate the 2A to the point of impracticality. We do this by challenging any plausible threat to our 2A rights and this includes publicly debating any and all statements made by our leaders even if their true intent of their statement is innocent. The fact that it is plausible makes the public discourse valid regarding the intent. Just as strategies to make us safer through the Patriot Act have now limited our rights, so too may any policies that address the solution to Lone Wolf terrorists.

I see no evidence that their is a massive proliferation of militias due to the election of Obama. If more militias are forming, it very well may be that they are doing so because of a perceived threat to their rights, not because our president is black. There is no credible evidence to support either motivation that I have seen and would be happy to entertain any. Until I review credible evidence of this, I can only say that either is plausible, but at this moment, I believe if they are on the rise, it is not due to race. It very well could be that survivalists are categorized as militias that believe if riots and anarchy may be a possibility due to class warfare of the have-nots taking from the haves (UK), they organize to prepare. Because the MSM choose to categorize the have-nots as mainly consisting of a majority of racial minorities, it does not make the survivalist group a racist entity. Group racial makeup is the big elephant in the room that we are not allowed to discuss openly and honestly if it could possibly indicate a pattern. To do so is to be unjustifiably branded a racist.

The fact that the Patriot Act exists today is an indication that in general, we did not put up much resistance to it. I meant my comment in general as I know many of us did not willingly give up the fight.

The Change I am referring to is the end game of destroying our free market system from within. It has been happening very gradually for many years but the radicals expect immediate change. You put frogs in a pot of cool water and turn up the heat and they will not try to escape, but throw the in boiling water and a mass revolt ensues. So what is the "change" Obama is referring to? I can only speculate his intent by the appointments he has made and his personal associations to folks such as Van Jones and Bill Ayers. There are many more. Based on common sense, if it walks like a duck, etc.. We can put our head in the sand and ignore the documented evidence and continue to follow this leader over the cliff, or we can objectively consider the history of his actions and come to a rationale conclusion of the intent of his leadership.

I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of unregistered guns in my possession. 'Nuff said.

We all have a common goal here in this forum and that is to defend our 2A rights. It does not matter what you political, sexual preference, or religious affiliations are and I believe that they should not enter the debate unless directly relevant. An example would be the root motivation for a Muslim, Christian, white supremest, or political group being denied their 2A rights if they are law abiding citizens. The last thing we need here is to discourage an entire group of folks and end up having them abandon the cause through non participation in sponsored actions to protect our 2A rights. In the case of PROVEN racist groups or those with PROVEN illegal intent, they do more harm than good and should not be welcome to participate in my opinion. Just because Example: The Tea Party is not a racist group because MSM and certain politicians claim they are.

Now you know the cut of my jib and I yours, we will have a better understanding regarding the intent and context of each others comments.