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View Full Version : How to deal with felony as gun owner?


StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 1:49 AM
So unfortunately a friend of mine was charged with a felony and he is a multiple gun owner. He asked me if I knew what the laws were pertaining to this. He is looking to sell the guns, but is afraid of repercussions from being a felon in possession of a firearm.

Any suggestions or information would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
SR

Falconis
08-17-2011, 1:51 AM
Charged or convicted? I am thinking he needs to contact an attorney if you can't divulge any info here.

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 1:52 AM
Charged or convicted? I am thinking he needs to contact an attorney if you can't divulge any info here.

Convicted. He is a veteran - not some scumbag, so please no derogatory remarks.

Thank you for your help,
SR

Turo
08-17-2011, 2:33 AM
Convicted. He is a veteran - not some scumbag, so please no derogatory remarks.

Thank you for your help,
SR

If he's convicted, then he's already in trouble; Felon in Possession. He needs to contact a lawyer pronto and surrender the guns somehow without getting nailed to the wall.

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 2:36 AM
So is there no way to gift the firearms to another family member? He doesn't have money for a lawyer and I'm not quite sure what you mean by surrendering...

Falconis
08-17-2011, 4:20 AM
I don't see why not. He'll have to bring his firearms and his friend or family member to an FFL and do all the transfers there.

Maybe there is another way and I know someone will chime in shortly.

I also think there is a form the family member who receives the firearms can just fill out and send to DOJ.

Oceanbob
08-17-2011, 4:49 AM
One thing for sure:

Get any and all firearms and ammunition OUT OF HIS HOUSE AND CONTROL.

If he is a convicted Felon he can get a mandatory 5 years.!

No use being Stupid as well

Quiet
08-17-2011, 5:41 AM
A convicted felon can legally possess firearms/ammunition for only the length of time necessary to surrender them to a LE agency. [PC 12021(h)(1)(B)]



Penal Code 12021
(a)(1) Any person who has been convicted of a felony under the laws of the United States, of the State of California, or any other state, government, or country, or of an offense enumerated in subdivision (a), (b), or (d) of Section 12001.6, or who is addicted to the use of any narcotic drug, who owns, purchases, receives, or has in his or her possession or under his or her custody or control any firearm is guilty of a felony.
(h)(1) A violation of subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) is justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the firearm or took the firearm from a person who was committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the firearm no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the firearm to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) If the firearm was transported to a law enforcement agency, it was transported in accordance with paragraph (18) of subdivision (a) of Section 12026.2.
(D) If the firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person transporting the firearm has given prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.

BannedinBritain
08-17-2011, 5:50 AM
He needs to take his firearms to an FFL ASAP...then he can have a family member or whomever he would like go to the FFL for transfer.

glockman19
08-17-2011, 6:57 AM
There is a conserted effort by CA DA's and CA's to file felony charges on ALL gun owners with multiple firearms.

Sorry to hear your friend is prohibited.

uyoga
08-17-2011, 7:18 AM
A convicted felon can legally possess firearms/ammunition for only the length of time necessary to surrender them to a LE agency. [PC 12021(h)(1)(B)]



Penal Code 12021
(a)(1) Any person who has been convicted of a felony under the laws of the United States, of the State of California, or any other state, government, or country, or of an offense enumerated in subdivision (a), (b), or (d) of Section 12001.6, or who is addicted to the use of any narcotic drug, who owns, purchases, receives, or has in his or her possession or under his or her custody or control any firearm is guilty of a felony.
(h)(1) A violation of subdivision (a), (b), (c), (d) or (e) is justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the firearm or took the firearm from a person who was committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the firearm no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the firearm to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) If the firearm was transported to a law enforcement agency, it was transported in accordance with paragraph (18) of subdivision (a) of Section 12026.2.
(D) If the firearm is being transported to a law enforcement agency, the person transporting the firearm has given prior notice to the law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.

Make sure you check this out. As I read it, ALL conditions must be met in order to avail oneself of the "justifiable" possession. Does he meet (A) above?

HowardW56
08-17-2011, 7:34 AM
There is a conserted effort by CA DA's and CA's to file felony charges on ALL gun owners with multiple firearms.

Where did you get that information? Is there anything available to back up that statement?

steamerjames
08-17-2011, 7:55 AM
This FUD i'm reading reminds me of the stuff that was printed in Southern Newspapers afterJohn Browns raid. They said the north was out to kill all the southerns and forment salve rebellons.The Result of this FUD was the death of 500,000 persons and the greatest war ever up to that time.DO YOU WANT ANOTHER CIVIL WAR? If not, THINK BEFORE YOU POST.There is far too much FUD on this forum, it's Dangerous, think about it.

stix213
08-17-2011, 8:11 AM
So is there no way to gift the firearms to another family member? He doesn't have money for a lawyer and I'm not quite sure what you mean by surrendering...

He's already in felony violation. If its discovered that he hasn't already gotten rid of his guns, he could go back to prison. He should contact a firearms attorney immediately to resolve this. If he doesn't have the money, he needs to figure out how to get it.

"Surrendering" means turn them into the police for disposal.

I would not have this guy just take them to an ffl for a transfer.


This FUD i'm reading reminds me of the stuff that was printed in Southern Newspapers afterJohn Browns raid. They said the north was out to kill all the southerns and forment salve rebellons.The Result of this FUD was the death of 500,000 persons and the greatest war ever up to that time.DO YOU WANT ANOTHER CIVIL WAR? If not, THINK BEFORE YOU POST.There is far too much FUD on this forum, it's Dangerous, think about it.

:TFH: Comparing an interweb thread to the death of a half million people kinda makes your entire argument laughable, and not possible to take seriously.


Where did you get that information? Is there anything available to back up that statement?

I think you fell for a touch of sarcasm.

Untamed1972
08-17-2011, 8:23 AM
I don't see why not. He'll have to bring his firearms and his friend or family member to an FFL and do all the transfers there.

Maybe there is another way and I know someone will chime in shortly.

I also think there is a form the family member who receives the firearms can just fill out and send to DOJ.

If he has a parent in the state he could do an intrafamilial transfer and not even have to get an FFL involved. Just fill out the paperwork and send in to DOJ.

Have the parent come pick the guns up and transport then out of the house.

dantodd
08-17-2011, 8:24 AM
Is your friend's freedom for the next 5 years worth less than the cost of a lawyer? One of the fine lawyers who advertise on his board should be able to help him out for only a couple hours I would think. I suspect if he goes through an attorney he will almost certainly be surrendering his guns to the police.

If I were in that situation and have a son/daughter, mother/father, grandparent/grandchild, or wife I would immediately relinquish control of the firearms to one of them. If it was my wife I'd get a new safe or have the combination on my existing safe changed so that I wouldn't know the combo and cannot have any access to the firearms.

Then have the relative fill out an "operation of law/interfamily transfer" form (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf) to have the guns all in their name. If it's the wife, I'd probably have her Voluntary Register and long guns just to make it perfectly clear that he no longer has possession.

I would not be willing to go to an FFL or ever touch the guns while prohibited. If his conviction is a wobbler (something that could be charged either as a felony or a misdemeanor but is charged, in his case, as a felony) he may be able to have to conviction changed to a misdemeanor and then expunged. This should return his rights (unless it is a domestic violence related charge) returned but he may have to wait a few years before a judge will reduce the charge.

oldsmoboat
08-17-2011, 8:47 AM
If the owner didn't handle the guns on the way to or at an FFL to do a transfer, would he still be in trouble?

mjukis
08-17-2011, 8:54 AM
He's already in felony violation. If its discovered that he hasn't already gotten rid of his guns, he could go back to prison. He should contact a firearms attorney immediately to resolve this. If he doesn't have the money, he needs to figure out how to get it.

"Surrendering" means turn them into the police for disposal.

I would not have this guy just take them to an ffl for a transfer.


The OP said his friend has been CHARGED with a felony, not convicted. As I read it (IANAL etc) he is fine to handle his firearms until he is convicted. If he thinks he is going to be convicted, have him take the firearms to an FFL and do a transfer to someone he knows and trusts who can later sell them or, if he is not convicted, transfer them back.

iareConfusE
08-17-2011, 8:58 AM
The OP said his friend has been CHARGED with a felony, not convicted. As I read it (IANAL etc) he is fine to handle his firearms until he is convicted. If he thinks he is going to be convicted, have him take the firearms to an FFL and do a transfer to someone he knows and trusts who can later sell them or, if he is not convicted, transfer them back.

Might help to read all the posts.

Convicted. He is a veteran - not some scumbag, so please no derogatory remarks.

Thank you for your help,
SR

stix213
08-17-2011, 9:41 AM
The OP said his friend has been CHARGED with a felony, not convicted. As I read it (IANAL etc) he is fine to handle his firearms until he is convicted. If he thinks he is going to be convicted, have him take the firearms to an FFL and do a transfer to someone he knows and trusts who can later sell them or, if he is not convicted, transfer them back.

Reread post 3

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 9:44 AM
It was a Class C felony conviction (lowest possible felony charge) with the ability to become expunged after a three year period, which will be over within the next 12 months. I know there is no way he will ever give his firearms to the police for "disposal", just as I know none of you would ever want to give away tens if thousands of dollars worth of guns... Is anyone definitive about the inter-family transfers? Does it matter what family member?

dantodd
08-17-2011, 9:58 AM
It was a Class C felony conviction (lowest possible felony charge) with the ability to become expunged after a three year period, which will be over within the next 12 months. I know there is no way he will ever give his firearms to the police for "disposal", just as I know none of you would ever want to give away tens if thousands of dollars worth of guns... Is anyone definitive about the inter-family transfers? Does it matter what family member?

Only lineal family members that can utilize the itrafamilial transfer. This means father, grandfather, mother grandmother, son, daughter, grandson, grand daughter, etc. They do not apply to brother, sister, aunt, uncle, etc.

No, an intrafamilial transfer doesn't erase a crime. In fact if he still owns guns now and has been a convicted felon for over 2 years he has already committed another felony. The "proper" way to dispose of the firearms is to have an attorney arrange for them to be turned in to the authorities.

If he has the crime expunged as a felony I do not believe this will reinstate his gun rights (it must be reduced to a misdemeanor first AFAIK.) He really needs to spend the few dollars it costs to consult an attorney before he loses his rights forever.

Personally, my gun rights are worth a thousand or a few thousand dollars. Your friend may be more willing to risk his by acting without competent legal advice.

I'd really hate to hear he got his record expunged while it was still a felony and then found out he can never own guns again when he tries to buy one.

Also, you haven't mentioned what type of felony it is. If it is an assault, or making threats etc. and the victim of the crime was a girlfriend or family member he is probably screwed either way. Any conviction of a "violent" crime where the victim is domestically related is considered a domestic violence conviction even if the conviction isn't officially listed as "domestic violence."

BusBoy
08-17-2011, 10:11 AM
Only lineal family members that can utilize the itrafamilial transfer. This means father, grandfather, mother grandmother, son, daughter, grandson, grand daughter, etc. They do not apply to brother, sister, aunt, uncle, etc.

No, an intrafamilial transfer doesn't erase a crime. In fact if he still owns guns now and has been a convicted felon for over 2 years he has already committed another felony. The "proper" way to dispose of the firearms is to have an attorney arrange for them to be turned in to the authorities.

If he has the crime expunged as a felony I do not believe this will reinstate his gun rights (it must be reduced to a misdemeanor first AFAIK.) He really needs to spend the few dollars it costs to consult an attorney before he loses his rights forever.

Personally, my gun rights are worth a thousand or a few thousand dollars. Your friend may be more willing to risk his by acting without competent legal advice.

I'd really hate to hear he got his record expunged while it was still a felony and then found out he can never own guns again when he tries to buy one.

Also, you haven't mentioned what type of felony it is. If it is an assault, or making threats etc. and the victim of the crime was a girlfriend or family member he is probably screwed either way. Any conviction of a "violent" crime where the victim is domestically related is considered a domestic violence conviction even if the conviction isn't officially listed as "domestic violence."

/\ /\THIS/\/\

Do not take the above advice lightly... its the best thats been posted so far from the beginning. with only 12 months to go this guy is willing to roll the dice and possibly get more tacked on?? Incredible. Screw toying with the transferring, GO GET A FIREARMS LAWYER. cough Mr Davis cough... :D

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 10:24 AM
He has been living out of state with his wife and recently returned to CA (where his firearms are). He was charged with a class c felony because they were pulled over while out of state on vacation and his cousin had a few grams of hashish and a few grams of marijuana and instead of his cousin coming clean and telling the officer it was his, he let the officer charge my friend with possession.

bwiese
08-17-2011, 10:28 AM
He's has been living out of state with his wife and recently returned to CA (where his firearms are). He was charged with a class c felony because they were pulled over while out of state on vacation and his cousin had a few grams of hashish and a few grams of marijuana and instead of his cousin coming clean and telling the officer it was his, he let the officer charge my friend with possession.


Hold it... was the drug violation in CA or in the other state he was coming from??

dantodd
08-17-2011, 10:28 AM
He's has been living out of state with his wife and recently returned to CA (where his firearms are). He was charged with a class c felony because his cousin had a few grams of hashish and a few grams of marijuana and instead of his cousin coming clean and telling the officer it was his, he let the officer charge my friend with possession.

Often, details matter, if his conviction was not in the state of CA then none of this necessarily applies. You need a good lawyer in whatever state he was convicted in, if it was CA and he's in SoCal with you then Jason Davis is probably your best bet..

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 10:37 AM
He was convicted outside of CA.

dantodd
08-17-2011, 10:42 AM
He was convicted outside of CA.

Then he really needs a good lawyer all the more. How the state of conviction treats the restoration of rights wrt this crime and how CA deals with the record as presented by the state of conviction all interact in ways that are far too complex to risk your friend's rights on. This complication would also probably add a couple or few hours to the legal bill I suspect. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
He still needs to arrange to get rid of the guns.

StoneRoots
08-17-2011, 10:45 AM
I'll let him know it's probably best to speak with a lawyer.

newbee1111
08-17-2011, 10:56 AM
Your friend needs to talk to a CGF lawyer pronto, like call them today. As other people have pointed out your friend COULD be in the position of committing another serious felony right now. I said could be because CA laws in general are confusing as hell and gun related laws doubly so. This isn't like screwing up a do it yourself home repair job where you have a funny story to tell people and you call it a day. There could be extremely serious consequences for your friend. Call the lawyer right now, the CGF number is on here somewhere. If your friend is in socal then just call Jason Davis directly.


http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/hotline


CGF Hotline: (800) 556-2109

Jason Davis: : 949.310.0817

Librarian
08-17-2011, 12:02 PM
This is far too serious to rely on Internet Commandos (present company included).

Lawyer time - if you can, get back to us in a couple of months and tell us how it's going.