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View Full Version : ELEVATION @ 30 FEET FROM MUZZLE


usmcdevildog
08-13-2011, 11:46 AM
I have a .22 rim fire rifle firing .22 shorts in my in-house gun range and I'm trying to find a scope that will allow for 30 foot targets. I have tried three of my scopes on it, all cheapies, and the elevation crosshair

will not rise far enough to place the the bullet groups with the cross of the crosshairs on the little black dot that I have used as my target. I have contacted Leupold but they got it all wrong. They think I want a

scope that will FOCUS on a 30 foot target. NO! I want a scope that will allow elevation adjustment of the crosshair on a little black dot that is thirty feet from the muzzle!!

Let me present this little scenario that will perfectly explain my problem: You are at the range with your rifle and scope and you take careful aim at the target bull's eye or whatever target you have rigged up and

you place three carefully aimed shots. You notice that vertically the three shots are where you want them. But horizontally you are 5 inches from the bull's eye. You go back and start rotating the screw on your

scope that changes the elevation crosshair in your scope. You fire three more shots. You find that you are now 3 inches from the bull's eye instead of 5 inches. You repeat the process untill you are 2 inches from

the bull's eye and then you find that you can't turn the screw any more! This is what happens to me.

Anyone know of a scope that will give me what I want?? Thanks.

Fjold
08-13-2011, 12:12 PM
First of all, no wonder Leupold didn't understand you, you are using the wrong terminology. You are having a windage problem not an elevation problem.

If you are shooting 5 inches right you want to adjust the windage screw not the elevation screw. If your scope will not line up left to right then you have a problem with your scope base, your receiver has the holes drilled crooked, the barrel is bent, the crown is uneven/damaged or your barrel was installed crooked in the receiver.

G-forceJunkie
08-13-2011, 12:19 PM
What rifle and what is the scope to bore height? It may not be physicaly possable to do with a cheap scope with limited adjustment. My wild *** guess is your going to need a base with a signaficant amount of slope to it or a scope with a lot of mechanical adjustment. Your probably going to only do it with the bullet crossing the sight plane on its way up the first time it crosses, which in reality would be a pretty long "zero", probably well over 100 yards. Trying to put a 100+ yard zero on a cheap scope with .22 shorts is going to take alot of elevation.

usmcdevildog
08-13-2011, 12:35 PM
FJOLD, you may have seen the error I made with the title. I corrected it. I used the term "windage" instead of the correct term "elevation".

The problem is simple. I need a scope that will place the cross of the crosshairs and the bullet on the little black dot that I have elected to use as my target. Anyone know of a scope that will allow such adjustment???

"Let me present this little scenario that will perfectly explain my problem: You are at the range with your rifle and scope and you take careful aim at the target bull's eye or whatever target you have rigged up and you place three carefully aimed shots. You notice that vertically the three shots are where you want them. But horizontally you are 5 inches from the bull's eye. You go back and start rotating the screw on your scope that changes the elevation crosshair in your scope. You fire three more shots. You find that you are now 3 inches from the bull's eye instead of 5 inches. You repeat the process untill you are 2 inches from the bull's eye and then you find that you can't turn the screw any more! This is what happens to me.

Anyone know of a scope that will give me what I want?? Thanks."

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nick
08-13-2011, 1:03 PM
Since it's that far off at 30ft, Fjold is right, your problem is with the scope base not lining up with the barrel, not with the scope. I doubt any scope is going to help in that scenario.

At least, that's what I understood from your description :)

G-forceJunkie
08-13-2011, 2:05 PM
"Let me present this little scenario that will perfectly explain my problem: You are at the range with your rifle and scope and you take careful aim at the target bull's eye or whatever target you have rigged up and you place three carefully aimed shots. You notice that vertically the three shots are where you want them.

So your eleveation (up and down) is perfect, yes?

But horizontally you are 5 inches from the bull's eye. You go back and start rotating the screw on your scope that changes the elevation crosshair in your scope.

Theres your problem. Why are you turning the elevation screw to adjust your horizontal (left or right)impacts?

You fire three more shots. You find that you are now 3 inches from the bull's eye instead of 5 inches. You repeat the process untill you are 2 inches from the bull's eye and then you find that you can't turn the screw any more! This is what happens to me.

Ok, so your scope ran out of adjustment...whatever direction you were turning the knobs.


Anyone know of a scope that will give me what I want?? Thanks."

You need a scope with more internal adjustment. The Super Snipers from SFWA are know for having alot of internal adjustment. The other option is a scope base or rings that put some tilt on the scope. You need to tip the rear of the scope up. Scope bases with 20 or so MOA of angle machined into them are pretty common. If you are running rings right on a railed upper of some sort, try the Burris Signature Zee rings with the offset insert kit. You can adjust the amount of cant you put on the scope with these.

Fjold
08-13-2011, 2:13 PM
"Let me present this little scenario that will perfectly explain my problem: You are at the range with your rifle and scope and you take careful aim at the target bull's eye or whatever target you have rigged up and you place three carefully aimed shots. You notice that vertically the three shots are where you want them. But horizontally you are 5 inches from the bull's eye. You go back and start rotating the screw on your scope that changes the elevation crosshair in your scope. You fire three more shots. You find that you are now 3 inches from the bull's eye instead of 5 inches. You repeat the process untill you are 2 inches from the bull's eye and then you find that you can't turn the screw any more! This is what happens to me.

Anyone know of a scope that will give me what I want?? Thanks."

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From the bolded parts, you're saying that the vertical adjustment is fine and the horizontal (windage) is off.

Where are your bullets impacting in relation to your point of aim? Left? Right?, High? or Low?

FMJBT
08-13-2011, 9:22 PM
Try one of these:

http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=FMT414

Focuses down to <10 meters and has over 75 moa of internal adjustment. Tracking is very solid on these scopes, I use them on everything from .22's to 300 Win Mags and have not had any issues. If you do happen to get a bad one, DKG Trading (distributor of the scopes) has a pretty good return/replacement policy.

usmcdevildog
08-14-2011, 8:13 AM
OK. Let me put it this way: I have a .22 rifle shooting at a target 30 (thirty) feet away. I cannot place my bullet groups on the bull's eye. The bullet groups remain 2 (two) inches directly above the small black dot that I have made my bull's eye. The scope I have cannot be adjusted to lower the bullet groups any further because the set screw will rotate no more. Is there a scope made that will allow a 30 (thirty) foot distance? A reward will be given to the person who can give me the name of the make and model of the scope that will. The reward will be issued only after I purchase said scope and try it.

Mute
08-14-2011, 9:23 AM
You have an elevation (vertical) adjustment problem. You scope does not have enough travel to move your reticle down to your point of impact. Since you are shooting so close, there might not be any scope to get you down that low.

There are two possible ways to resolve this. Without know what scope you are using currently, I'm going to guess you have one that doesn't have a great deal of elevation adjustments. There are a number of scopes out there that have a large elevation range, and you could try one of them, however, I suggest a second method solving your problem, which is to get a scope mount with some slope to allow you to lower your point of aim. Based on what you're telling us, a scope base with 10 MOA of slope built in should be sufficient for you to get you scope zeroed at 30 ft.

Fjold
08-14-2011, 9:37 AM
The easiest thing to do to correct this is to buy a set of Burris Z rings. They have +/- minus .020" inserts in the rings. You need to buy two sets of .020 insert sets.

You install the +.020 insert in the bottom half of the front ring and the -.020 insert in the top half of the front ring.

You also install a -0.20 insert in the bottom half of the rear ring and the +.020 insert in the top half of the rear ring. (the opposite of the front ring)

If you have a spacing of 6" between your scope rings then this will lower your point of impact 2.4" at 30 feet.

G-forceJunkie
08-14-2011, 5:33 PM
Its not that simple, you have given us no information of value. Your asking a geometry question without giving us any numbers to work with. I can probably tell you what you want if you answer all of the following questions:

1)What ammo are you shooting, whats the bullet weight and velocity?
2) what rifle is it. How is the scope mounted ie is it an AR type with rings on the upper reciever? a rifle that uses a base and rings?
3) What is the heights between the center of the bore and the center of the scope?
4) What scope are you rusing right now? How much total internal elevation does it have?
5) Give us an detailed idea of where your group is impacting. your last post is the first to mention it is hitting above the target!
OK. Let me put it this way: I have a .22 rifle shooting at a target 30 (thirty) feet away. I cannot place my bullet groups on the bull's eye. The bullet groups remain 2 (two) inches directly above the small black dot that I have made my bull's eye. The scope I have cannot be adjusted to lower the bullet groups any further because the set screw will rotate no more. Is there a scope made that will allow a 30 (thirty) foot distance? A reward will be given to the person who can give me the name of the make and model of the scope that will. The reward will be issued only after I purchase said scope and try it.

donnrcp
08-21-2011, 5:23 AM
Just for giggles, no money involved except for your ammo, range fee, and a box of toothpicks. All you want to do is shoot where you aim at 30 feet.



x----------------------------Point of impact? 2 inches high?
Bullseye
X----------------------------Point of aim here
Here

Hold the bus!

You are discharging a firearm in your house and not a range with proper ventilation and bullet trapping?

You are shooting high and not low at 30 feet?

Am I on the crazy bus?

Do your rings match? Nick and Fjold have the least expensive fix for you. I once bought a 270 from a guy on Glock Talk, it was a good deal, it had mismatched rings but now it's OK.

Goal: Point of sight (crosshairs) will put your bullets (point of impact) on target at 30 feet

I will stay tuned!

P.S. 22 rimfire ballistics table: http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/22lrballistics.htm

Scope mounting info: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_9_49/ai_105642911/pg_2/?tag=mantle_skin;content

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=how+to+sight+in+a+scope


I will see if I can get a 22 short ballistics graph. ? amount of bullet drop for a 22 short at 30 feet? maybe the width , no more than the length of a gnat

A 29 gr. 22 cal bullet at 700 and 1000 FPS will drop 0.36 and 0.17 inches respectively at 10 yards, 22 shorts come in velocities between 680 and 1000 FPS. One species of gnat measures 2.5mm in length which is about 1/10th of an inch. I was off by a couple of gnats.