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View Full Version : 411 on EAA Witness/Tanfoglio/Mapp1 etc.


redrex
08-06-2011, 3:45 AM
I've been looking for two pistols. A mid to full size 9mm and a full size 45. And the other day I saw this. An ARMSCOR Tanfoglio called the MAPP1 (http://centerfiresystems.com/AC-MAPP1FS.aspx). After some research this seems to be a clone of a clone.

So far I have found the Armscor MAPP1 and the EAA Witness Poly. They seem based off of the CZ 75. I also saw hints that there were other similar clones of the CZ out there.

So questions that I have are:
1. Are there any other clones in this "family" that should be considered.
2. Other Tanfoglios can swap calibers just by switching the barrel and mag. Can this one do the same trick?
3. Do any of you have any hands on experience with this gun? Thoughts?

And I will add this one bit of warning to our Glock/Sig/etc. fanboys. Worthless posts like, "forget this, get the Glock blah blah blah" and I swear that I will find where you live and get you a lifetime membership in Code Pink.

Also I should mention that I was an owner of an Armscor RIA 1911 and I have nothing but great things to say about the company and their products so far.

zfields
08-06-2011, 8:27 AM
with how cheap CZs are, stick with the original.

The armscor copies are very rough looking compared to the originals. If its a made in italy EAA or Tanfoglio, they are GTG

Freq18Hz
08-06-2011, 8:35 AM
Yeah thats what Im wondering from your post, why not just get a cz-75b?

-Freq

porky
08-06-2011, 8:55 AM
The Tanfoglio is a fine weapon-they are made extremely well and the fit and finish is superb-

They can be customized and you can swap barrels and mags to change calibers-

My buddy has a Tanfoglio spa series 88- it shoots like the devil- and I would love to get ahold of it-He won't let it go-

J.D.Allen
08-06-2011, 8:57 AM
Armalite makes a pistol based on the 75b that has gotten decent reviews, but like has already been said you can get a new CZ for < 500 bucks, might as well stay with the original

zfields
08-06-2011, 9:20 AM
The Tanfoglio is a fine weapon-they are made extremely well and the fit and finish is superb-

They can be customized and you can swap barrels and mags to change calibers-

My buddy has a Tanfoglio spa series 88- it shoots like the devil- and I would love to get ahold of it-He won't let it go-

Your comparing a Itaian Tanfoglio to a armscor tanfoglio.

Woodworker2
08-06-2011, 10:29 AM
I've been looking for two pistols. A mid to full size 9mm and a full size 45. And the other day I saw this. An ARMSCOR Tanfoglio called the MAPP1 (http://centerfiresystems.com/AC-MAPP1FS.aspx). After some research this seems to be a clone of a clone.

So far I have found the Armscor MAPP1 and the EAA Witness Poly. They seem based off of the CZ 75. I also saw hints that there were other similar clones of the CZ out there.

So questions that I have are:
1. Are there any other clones in this "family" that should be considered.
2. Other Tanfoglios can swap calibers just by switching the barrel and mag. Can this one do the same trick?
3. Do any of you have any hands on experience with this gun? Thoughts?

And I will add this one bit of warning to our Glock/Sig/etc. fanboys. Worthless posts like, "forget this, get the Glock blah blah blah" and I swear that I will find where you live and get you a lifetime membership in Code Pink.

Also I should mention that I was an owner of an Armscor RIA 1911 and I have nothing but great things to say about the company and their products so far.

I will try to answer a few of your questions.

There are two styles of pistols that are made by the parent company Tanfoglio, which limits the ability of the caliber conversion. There is a "small frame", which accepts magazines that are 1.250" x 0.800" and a "large frame" that accepts magazines that are 1.345" x 0.850". The "small frame" can be made into the following caliber: .22lr, 9mm, 40 S&W, and .41 AE. The "large frame" can be made into :.22lr, 9mm, 40 S&W, 38 super, .41 AE, 10mm, and .45 acp. Thus a "large frame" is much more flexible. The "large frame" pistol is roughly 1/8" longer than the "small frame", so the slides are not interchangable between frame styles.

There are several companies that have assembled Tanfoglio based pistols over the years, all with slightly different looking frames, but basically the same interior parts. A short list: IMI, IWI, Baby Eagle, Armalite, European American Armory (EAA), Excam, FIE, Springfield, Armscor (and a few others). To add to the mix, the frames were made in steel and "plastic", in both magazine styles, also some with slide mounted safeties. The Armscor line of pistols is "small frame", the EAA poly are made in both styles.

Changing calibers is a matter of buying the corrent slide to match the frame magazine style, and frame material. I am not sure whether a slide mounted safety pistol can be converted to a frame mounted safety; I have never tried it. There are fewer choices for slide mounted safety pistols. The largest number of slide choices are made for the "large frame" steel pistols (three barrel lengths, in multiple calibers, plus compensators too).

I own a few CZ's and Tanfoglios, so I can give you my impressions of both:

CZ
1. On the plus side, the pistols are easy to find new, with many styles on the Cal DOJ Roster.
2. On the minus side, other than the .22lr kit, I don't believe that any caliber conversion kit are available (need to buy multiple pistols to shoot multiple calibers). The single safety and ambi safety frames are machined differently, so there is no ambi safety retrofit available.

Tanfoglio
1. On the minus side, most of the Tanfoglio pistols are no longer on the DOJ Roster. Baby Eagle was, but being a slide mounted safety the conversion options are slim (if available at all).
2. On the plus side, there are lots of parts available from the factory. Adding an ambi safety is easy. Multiple caliber and barrel length options.

A little history. When the CZ's were original made, Czechoslovakia was a communist country and did not file international patents on the pistol. Tanfoglio "copied" the design, made a few changes, and developed the current line of pistols. A "few" parts are interchangable, but the Tanfoglio is not an exact match of the CZ.
.

redrex
08-06-2011, 12:04 PM
Ok, as to why not just get the CZ? Well here are 4 reasons I'm considering.

1. I can get a Witness for $100 less
2. It comes with a 22lr conversion kit for free
3. I can convert it fairly cheap to other calibers
4. I won't have to deal with the extra cost of shipping should I need to send it in for warranty work.

As to the Armscor vs EAA or Tanfoglio what have been your experiences. As I understand it Armscor is just doing assembly from parts shipped over by Tanfoglio. So wouldn't the product quality be the same? Heck they could send it to me as parts and I'd be happy to build it if I could save a chunk of cash.