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View Full Version : What's the cheapest Semi-Auto 12 Gu. out there!


rla_2000
01-11-2007, 2:57 PM
I just want something that I can leave at the house with the wife for defense, when I am away for weeks at a time, that the wife could use and not have to worry about having to feed each round in manually. (If the need should ever arise)

-hanko
01-11-2007, 2:58 PM
A cheap chinese copy...couldn't tell you what they copy in auto's. Try looking online at Century Arms or similar.

-hanko

Matt C
01-11-2007, 3:15 PM
Cheap+Self Defense+ Semi-auto SG= Very Bad Idea

If the thing jams and your wife dies will you be glad you saved the extra few hundred bucks? Sorry to be blunt, but I would really hate for you to regret your decision when it's too late.

Hunter
01-11-2007, 3:25 PM
Cheap on semi-auto means more jams!

Go with a good pump. If you are worried about her cycling it get a cheap dbl barrel. I would think most home defense situation would not require more than 2 shots.

magmaster
01-11-2007, 3:26 PM
I have to agree. If you want something cheap then buy a pump. Check Big 5 when they have a sale. They usually have Mossberg's for around $200-220.

mike100
01-11-2007, 3:32 PM
I think my pumps are easier to use. the semi's are easier to get follow-up shots with, but are more difficult to load.

the turkish made autoloaders are in the $300 range. I have one that works quite well, but it takes longer to manipulate the controls for tactical useage.

I agree with the above that a defensive autoloader means a $600 and up entry fee.

wilit
01-11-2007, 6:42 PM
You might also want to make sure your wife won't be scared to shoot a 12-ga. I know this sounds stupid, but if I had a loaded 12-ga and a loaded .22 next to the bed when an intruder burst in, I know exactly which gun my GF would go for first, and it's definately not the one I would go for first.

AJAX22
01-11-2007, 7:02 PM
I spent 125+shpping and dros for my Remmington M11 12 gauge with two barrels and it's in impecable shape. (I'll post photos this weekend)

the M11 is reliable and cheap, they don't make it any more so most are C&R long guns (can buy them face to face in CA without paperwork)

naimad
01-11-2007, 7:26 PM
I just want something that I can leave at the house with the wife for defense, when I am away for weeks at a time, that the wife could use and not have to worry about having to feed each round in manually. (If the need should ever arise)

If your depending on something to save your life i wouldnt be looking for cheap i would be looking for quality and reliability a pump remington 870 or mosberg pump is your best bang for your buck and are easier to use than an auto but will also have more recoil. I dont know where your located but i found a remington 1100 20 guage shotgun that some one shortened the stock and cut the barrel down to 20 inches it was around the 300.00 dollar range i think that would make an excellent gun for your wife let me know if you are interested i can give deatails to the gun shop.The gun is a in very nice condition the guy who cut it down must have been an idiot.The remington 1100 is a semi auto shotgun

maxicon
01-11-2007, 11:49 PM
OK, back to the question!

There are a couple of decent inexpensive new semi-autos, and a pile of used ones. I'd recommend reading up on models you're interested in over at www.shotgunworld.com, the best shotgun resource on the web.

You can get a Verona SX405S semi-auto for $300 ($25 off sale last time I was there) at Targetmasters. The people at shotgunworld who have them like them.

There's also the Remington/Spartan SPR 453, same as the Baikal MP153 - they also get good reviews from their owners. They tend to be closer to $350-400. They're also pretty heavy.

That also gets you into Stoeger range, at around $400 for a 2000, which is a good bit lighter than the Remington or Verona.

Other good bets for inexpensive semis is older used ones, like the Winchester Model 12, Winchester Model 11, Mossberg 9200, etc.

Like any defensive weapon, regardless of price, you would want to put a good number of rounds of your chosen self-defense ammo through it to prove its reliability.

Now, most of these guns are going to be in a hunting configuration, not home defense, and by the time you converted them, you might as well have bought one in that configuration off the shelf.

If I were to set my wife up with a shotgun, it would be a well-tested semi-auto 20 gauge, because there are just too many things to go wrong with a pump and an inexperienced user, and a 20 gauge is just as effective as a 12 gauge at home defense ranges, with a lot less recoil.

Personally, I think a handgun's a better bet overall, and would go for a revolver for an inexperienced user. A nice older S&W 586 or 686 in 4" is a great home gun - Easy to handle and load, heavy enough to tame the recoil, sweet double-action trigger, accurate and powerful, and as easy to use as it gets. There's very little to remember to use a revolver.

socalguns
01-12-2007, 1:35 AM
as long as it works fine, doesn't have really horrible reputable reviews,
buy it. Brand names (increased cost) aren't what they used to be


http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976604277.htm

One day, perhaps the country of origin will no longer mask the "good and the bad." By that, the assumption has been made that Belgian product is always good, British stuff is always good, Spanish stuff is always bad, and so forth. The more learned students of gun-making long ago understood that brand names and country of origin used as broad paint brushes to characterize product is quite foolish. We all know that the Japanese are not clever enough to build a proper automobile. As for the many little plants in Turkey, expect a mixed bag. It will take a little investigation to separate the wheat from the considerable chaff.

Outlaw Josey Wales
01-12-2007, 1:44 AM
That also gets you into Stoeger range, at around $400 for a 2000, which is a good bit lighter than the Remington or Verona.



I purchased a Stoeger autoloading shotgun for $400 at Reeds in San Jose last July during their big sale. It is a nice shotgun for the money and uses the same inertia drive system as the more exspensive Benelli.

rla_2000
01-13-2007, 1:13 AM
maxicon- Thanks for the info/link!
And yes, I have taken my wife out with the Pump 12 gu that we currently have and set it up with the shortest barrel we can find for it and a pistol grip.

I didn't necessarily want "Cheap" (JFC-That was a poor word to use!:( ), but if it is going to be something that I will run lets say 100 or so rounds through to test and ensure it is reliable, and then sit under the mattress (Or other easily accessible location for months/years) I definitely want one that is inexpensive.

She handles the recoil of the 12 guage just fine when shooing it with the pistol grip at the range, but it just takes her a hellofa long time to reload with the pump action! She does not practice enough and does not see the need as I do to practice!

I personally have been told at the range to "Stop the Rapid-Fire" at my range with it! And if I can get a reliable 12 g (Or even 20) semi-suto I would just feel more comfortable knowing that she could at least get the 1st round off and not have to worry about loading. I think it would also help her self-esteem a little to because I know that she feels ackward when she short-strokes it and the empty does not eject.

Whichever

midvalleyshooter
01-13-2007, 9:01 AM
One suggestion you may consider is not to buy a shotgun for her to use. A semi-auto pistol caliber carbine such as a Ruger PC-9 recoils very mildly, is easy to place accuracte shots with, is very reliable and 9mm ammo is cheap.

Best regards,
Keith

pksman
01-13-2007, 9:51 AM
Big 5 has Rem 870's on sale all the time for a little over $300. Dont cheap out on a self defense gun.:cool:

mike100
01-13-2007, 10:18 AM
the key to running a pump gun IS repetitive training...even if it is during sporting use. Just stick to tactical doctrine as much as possible.

for instance..even during trap singles..I tactical load with my left hand into the chamber to reinforce that dexterity while keeping a hold of the stock with my right all the while keeping the gun downrange. Another drill to re-inforce is to always beat the pump action like a read headed step child and make sure it smacks the reciever. do not get in the habit of waiting to unload..slam it back as soon as you fire.

I posted before on SGW about leaving shells in the magazine forgotten and neglected. They will deform. A pump can deal with that with a little force but an autolader will be sensitive to that. If you want to have a gun and forget about it, a good revolver, kept dry, ought to work just fine if you don't touch it for 50 years.

ivanimal
01-13-2007, 10:49 AM
OK, back to the question!

There are a couple of decent inexpensive new semi-autos, and a pile of used ones. I'd recommend reading up on models you're interested in over at www.shotgunworld.com, the best shotgun resource on the web.

You can get a Verona SX405S semi-auto for $300 ($25 off sale last time I was there) at Targetmasters. The people at shotgunworld who have them like them.

There's also the Remington/Spartan SPR 453, same as the Baikal MP153 - they also get good reviews from their owners. They tend to be closer to $350-400. They're also pretty heavy.

That also gets you into Stoeger range, at around $400 for a 2000, which is a good bit lighter than the Remington or Verona.

Other good bets for inexpensive semis is older used ones, like the Winchester Model 12, Winchester Model 11, Mossberg 9200, etc.

Like any defensive weapon, regardless of price, you would want to put a good number of rounds of your chosen self-defense ammo through it to prove its reliability.

Now, most of these guns are going to be in a hunting configuration, not home defense, and by the time you converted them, you might as well have bought one in that configuration off the shelf.

If I were to set my wife up with a shotgun, it would be a well-tested semi-auto 20 gauge, because there are just too many things to go wrong with a pump and an inexperienced user, and a 20 gauge is just as effective as a 12 gauge at home defense ranges, with a lot less recoil.

Personally, I think a handgun's a better bet overall, and would go for a revolver for an inexperienced user. A nice older S&W 586 or 686 in 4" is a great home gun - Easy to handle and load, heavy enough to tame the recoil, sweet double-action trigger, accurate and powerful, and as easy to use as it gets. There's very little to remember to use a revolver.


+1 there are also Charles Daly shotguns and some Italian made semi autos that function well. I keep a 38 special snubnose with frangible rounds accesible for home defense. They work with nothing to think about except shot placement.

maxicon
01-13-2007, 10:56 AM
So, here's some good stuff to consider when arming someone who doesn't practice a lot. It's important to think through all these aspects, knowing the person's skills, and make the right decision.

All this assumes a known reliable gun, well-tested with the ammo to be used, wielded by someone not super familiar with it.

A pump can be kept ready a few ways - one in the chamber, safety on, or empty chamber that needs to be racked first. 1 or 2 steps are needed for the first shot - check the safety and rack the slide if unchambered, then another needed is needed for followup shots - rack again. Hopefully, no short-stroking, elbow doesn't hit anything while racking, not struggling with someone, not hiding behind cover in a tight spot, etc. Jams are not easy to clear for someone inexperienced.

A semi-auto can be kept the same way - one in the chamber, safety on, or empty chamber. Similar 1 or 2 steps for the first shot - check the safety and work the bolt if unchambered, but followups only require pulling the trigger. Jams are not easy to clear for someone inexperienced.

A semi-auto DA handgun (you wouldn't give a newbie a 1911, would you?) is similar - keep one in the chamber or an empty chamber - but don't require any action for followup shots except pulling the trigger. Many DAs don't even have a safety - just keep it chambered and pull the trigger - while others require checking the safety, then pulling the trigger. An empty chamber requires the additional step of working the slide, something some women or kids have trouble with. Limpwristing can also be a problem. Jams are not easy to clear for someone inexperienced.

A revolver requires no steps before firing - pick it up and squeeze the trigger. No safety, no chambering. Jams are not easy to clear for someone inexperienced, but they're the least likely to jam of any of these options. For best results, this requires a good, smooth DA trigger, but that could be gunsmithed, or older S&W revolvers tend to have great DA triggers. Downsides? Fewer rounds, but the likelihood of requiring more than 6 .357 magnums is low.

If I were arming my wife, I'd give her an older S&W .357 magnum in 4", as I said earlier, or a Glock (or XD or similar DA with no safety) 9mm if I wanted more rounds.

Either way, they'd need to shoot enough rounds to catch any problems (like the Glock limpwristing problem), and you'd need to shoot enough to guarantee the gun's reliability.

To complicate matters, they'll need to be able to see what they're shooting at - adding a light changes the decision matrix a good bit.

This is all basic risk assessment - determine the problem to be solved, look at what could go wrong and what the results of this would be, figure out how to avoid the problems, and decide if the cost is acceptable.

It's important to consider all this in survival and defense planning.

cornholio1
01-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Does anybody have a hard time pumping the Mossy 500? After I fire off a round, it is sometimes hard to pump

mike100
01-13-2007, 1:58 PM
Does anybody have a hard time pumping the Mossy 500? After I fire off a round, it is sometimes hard to pump

your problem is likely two-fold. The remington express 870's also often have a roughly machined chamber that expanded brass will stick on. the solution is too shoot a couple of thousand rounds to work it smooth or to dremel polish it right away to make it mirror smooth.

the second part of the equation is that the cheap birshot has thin cheap steel shell bases that expand more than a good "high brass" shell. the cheapest shells get a little sticky in even my wingmasters.so..for home defense, use the 75 cents or a dollar a shot high quality ammo.

!@#$
01-13-2007, 7:48 PM
dont overlook the sxs shotgun

cornholio1
01-14-2007, 10:19 AM
your problem is likely two-fold. The remington express 870's also often have a roughly machined chamber that expanded brass will stick on. the solution is too shoot a couple of thousand rounds to work it smooth or to dremel polish it right away to make it mirror smooth.

the second part of the equation is that the cheap birshot has thin cheap steel shell bases that expand more than a good "high brass" shell. the cheapest shells get a little sticky in even my wingmasters.so..for home defense, use the 75 cents or a dollar a shot high quality ammo.

Thanks Mike

anotherone
01-14-2007, 3:38 PM
The only cheap semi-auto shotguns I've ever seen are all hunting shotguns that are 28"+ barrels. Why don't you just give your wife a 9mm handgun to protect herself with like I did?

cornholio1
01-14-2007, 4:58 PM
Well to answer OP's question. The cheapest semiauto shotty I've seen is the Escort @ Turners

rla_2000
01-14-2007, 7:20 PM
To answer the few about giving her a pistol:
1) She does not practice at all.
2) There are others in the house and the last thing I would need is for her to shoot at an intruder, and miss and the round go through a wall and hit someone else.

I currently have 2 guns that are for self-defense:
12-gu pump-action
and a
45

I look at it this way personally; if some one is in my house I will grab the 12 gu as the rounds I keep in it will not have much inertia if they go through a wall. Plus in tight quarters the path of fire is spread due to the nature of the shotgun.

Now if someone is in my yard I will grab the .45 as it much easier to conceal from site (When being held at my side). Plus if I would have to run/manuver I would be more comfortable doing so with my .45 than my 12-gu.

I have considered getting a smaller caliber handgun for my wife but with her not wanting to take the time to pracitce with it I could just see her grabbing the pisol and dumping an entire magazine in our hallway and hit everything BUT the intruder!!!! So I think in my case a shotgun takes out a major part of the problem that I would see her have; AIMING! Basically she could stand at the end of the hallway, and if someone approachers he that shouldn't be, just a quick pointing of the gun in the general direction would take care of the rest.

vwsergio
01-19-2007, 7:40 PM
Just check big 5 they always have cheap shot guns for sale

Teletiger7
01-20-2007, 5:25 PM
To answer the few about giving her a pistol:
1) She does not practice at all.
2) There are others in the house and the last thing I would need is for her to shoot at an intruder, and miss and the round go through a wall and hit someone else.

I currently have 2 guns that are for self-defense:
12-gu pump-action
and a
45

I look at it this way personally; if some one is in my house I will grab the 12 gu as the rounds I keep in it will not have much inertia if they go through a wall. Plus in tight quarters the path of fire is spread due to the nature of the shotgun.

Now if someone is in my yard I will grab the .45 as it much easier to conceal from site (When being held at my side). Plus if I would have to run/manuver I would be more comfortable doing so with my .45 than my 12-gu.

I have considered getting a smaller caliber handgun for my wife but with her not wanting to take the time to pracitce with it I could just see her grabbing the pisol and dumping an entire magazine in our hallway and hit everything BUT the intruder!!!! So I think in my case a shotgun takes out a major part of the problem that I would see her have; AIMING! Basically she could stand at the end of the hallway, and if someone approachers he that shouldn't be, just a quick pointing of the gun in the general direction would take care of the rest.

A certain amount of accuracy is still needed. She should still PRACTICE with the shotgun regardless. a weapon is a weapon. Situational awareness is important. She should ID target first,etc., etc.

jfcosgrove3
01-24-2007, 3:56 PM
If she refuses to become familiar with the firearm, your best bet is to get a large German Shepard.

xenophobe
01-25-2007, 3:29 PM
The cheapest semi-auto shotguns are the Charles Daly and CZs.

Aluisious
01-25-2007, 3:38 PM
You might also want to make sure your wife won't be scared to shoot a 12-ga. I know this sounds stupid, but if I had a loaded 12-ga and a loaded .22 next to the bed when an intruder burst in, I know exactly which gun my GF would go for first, and it's definately not the one I would go for first.
You really should learn to tame that 12 ga, or your girlfiend will make fun of you :D

Aluisious
01-25-2007, 3:43 PM
To answer the few about giving her a pistol:
1) She does not practice at all.
2) There are others in the house and the last thing I would need is for her to shoot at an intruder, and miss and the round go through a wall and hit someone else.

I currently have 2 guns that are for self-defense:
12-gu pump-action
and a
45

I look at it this way personally; if some one is in my house I will grab the 12 gu as the rounds I keep in it will not have much inertia if they go through a wall. Plus in tight quarters the path of fire is spread due to the nature of the shotgun.

Now if someone is in my yard I will grab the .45 as it much easier to conceal from site (When being held at my side). Plus if I would have to run/manuver I would be more comfortable doing so with my .45 than my 12-gu.

I have considered getting a smaller caliber handgun for my wife but with her not wanting to take the time to pracitce with it I could just see her grabbing the pisol and dumping an entire magazine in our hallway and hit everything BUT the intruder!!!! So I think in my case a shotgun takes out a major part of the problem that I would see her have; AIMING! Basically she could stand at the end of the hallway, and if someone approachers he that shouldn't be, just a quick pointing of the gun in the general direction would take care of the rest.
Just an FYI, if you take your .45 in your yard and end up shooting someone, you might be going to jail for a long time.

Rums
01-26-2007, 1:46 AM
It sounds like she's not familiar with firearms, and if that's the case she needs to be properly educated before you buy her a defense shotgun either way. And if she is properly educated (and practices a little bit), then she could probably handle the .45 or the shotgun you already have, thus eliminating the need for a semiauto. Basic point: If she doesn't know what the hell she's doing, she shouldn't have access to your guns in the first place.

maxicon
01-26-2007, 8:53 AM
At home defense ranges, your spread on the shotgun is only going to be 2-3 inches, so it still needs to be aimed just like any gun.

I'm still convinced that a revolver's best for someone who doesn't practice. Pick it up, aim as best as is possible, pull the trigger, repeat as necessary. No additional complications.

An inexperienced user trying to shoot a pump in times of stress without having practiced is just asking for shortstroking, and there's no way they'd be able to clear a jam. I'm also still convinced a well-tested semi-auto's the best shotgun for someone inexperienced who doesn't practice, for that reason.

ivanimal
01-27-2007, 4:48 AM
http://www.turners.com/siteimages/01-25.gif


I would take the 870 at the same price!

Bako
01-28-2007, 9:51 PM
The cheapest I've seen is walking into Big 5 on sale day, Remington or Mossberg.

darkjedi351
02-04-2007, 10:00 AM
Grab that cut down 20 ga 1100. I use my sons, that i got a extra barrel for that i cut down to 20". I use it for coyotes around the ranch. It's light, short and has little recoil with 2 3/4 buck or slugs. I live close to a major highway and don't want to P.O. the highway patrol. I have a surefire 6V mounted to the mag extension, a 4 round side saddle and it's still lighter than my 870.
All these people talking abount dependability must not own any semi-auto shotguns cause i have never had any malfuncions w/ any of my semi autos. Pumps cost less and everyone thinks racking the slide sounds macho.

OldWestGambler
02-04-2007, 10:32 PM
The cheapest I've seen is walking into Big 5 on sale day, Remington or Mossberg.

The way Big 5 does DROSing, I'll pass and pay more with someone who can do it right. The employees they hire seem to need " special help."

ivanimal
02-05-2007, 2:37 AM
The way Big 5 does DROSing, I'll pass and pay more with someone who can do it right. The employees they hire seem to need " special help."


I have bought many rifles from Big 5 without any problems. I have heard they had issues at some stores but to paint them all with the same brush is unfair. I know an ex employee that knows more about guns and laws than most of us.:cool:

Ratters
02-05-2007, 7:40 AM
The way Big 5 does DROSing, I'll pass and pay more with someone who can do it right. The employees they hire seem to need " special help."


I bought a lever action last year at Big 5 and they were meticulous about the drosing process.

WINGEDSWORD
03-02-2007, 12:49 AM
The worst possible mistake you could make is to buy a cheap weapon for defense and load it with "bargain shells" If it were me, I would Get a Remington 1100 in 20 gauge,with a 20 inch Rifle sighted barrel. Rifle sighted, not rifled. Loaded with Remington or Winchester number 4 buckshot. Then take the time to train your wife on it's use and practice enough so that she's comfortable with it. The most important part of the training is her mindset. Simply "I will not be a victem"

24_minutes_to_1000
03-04-2007, 8:46 PM
If you've got your mind set on a shotgun, I would definately consider a 20 gauge over a 12 for an inexperienced woman due to recoil issues, and then have her practice with it a lot. She needs to get used to the feel, the recoil, the noise, the smell, the spent shell flying out.

To have a firearm in the hands of someone without training and practice in a pressure filled situation is asking for a very bad outcome.

If she's unwilling to train I would suggest that she shouldn't have a firearm to begin with, and that mace or a taser would be more appropriate in her hands.