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View Full Version : "Posted: No Trespassing" vs "No Trespassing"


NytWolf
08-01-2011, 10:03 AM
Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but anyway ...

What is the difference between "Posted: No Trespassing" and "No Trespassing" signs. The CA laws does not specifically define the difference. But from what little I remember from my "Intro to Law" class from college, the prof said there is a difference and the "Posted" has more weight -- something to do with registration with the city and enforcement(?). Can someone tell me the laws behind the difference?

CSACANNONEER
08-02-2011, 6:22 PM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.

fullrearview
08-02-2011, 6:32 PM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.


No... But it is wise.

w55
08-02-2011, 7:26 PM
Not sure if this is the proper forum for this question, but anyway ...

What is the difference between "Posted: No Trespassing" and "No Trespassing" signs. The CA laws does not specifically define the difference. But from what little I remember from my "Intro to Law" class from college, the prof said there is a difference and the "Posted" has more weight -- something to do with registration with the city and enforcement(?). Can someone tell me the laws behind the difference?

Going poaching:p

w55
08-02-2011, 7:29 PM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.

I didnt know that, do you drive arcoss fields are just walk in , like in the rural areas? My job is like that along pipeline right a ways but we always give folks a heads up.

w55
08-02-2011, 7:39 PM
I guess it varies by state. Just interested as my family has proprty and would be surprised to find someone in the middle of the place.

http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/4239/136/

anthonyca
08-02-2011, 7:53 PM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.

Has anyone got really pissed at you? Sounds like a good way for crooks to get on your property. Walk around with surveyor's tools.

DEPUTYBILL
08-02-2011, 8:29 PM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.

So you can go on anyone's property,anytime without permission of the owner?
I would think that unless you had the owners permission,or work for a company with acess rights(PG&E as an example) you could find yourself at gunpoint with some explaining to do to the owner.

CSACANNONEER
08-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Sometimes we drive, sometimes we hike, sometimes we fly in with the company helicopter.

So you can go on anyone's property,anytime without permission of the owner?
I would think that unless you had the owners permission,or work for a company with acess rights(PG&E as an example) you could find yourself at gunpoint with some explaining to do to the owner.

Are you really a deputy or other type of LEO? Ca PC is pretty clear on this and, I wish more LEOs knew about it. It normally takes an extra 30 minutes to an hour for me to educate them and then for them to verify my information is correct. It's a PITA to have to do this every time I need to have the law enforced.

I've had a few very high profile people held by local LEOs while I did my job. In Ca, a surveyor or anyone working for a surveyor has the legal "right of entry" (I don't know what "access rights" are in a legal sense). We try to make contact when we can but, many times, we just get in and get out. We do a lot of work on high end properties with high profile neighbors so, we do encounter private security as well as property owners at times. The bottom line is that if I need to tresspass, I have the legal right to and I try to have the situational awareness and ability to bull scat my way out of any situation I find myself in.

For those who don't want to believe this, here is the first link that my google fu produced:http://www.californiasurveyors.org/clsaforum/showthread.php?t=291

1911_sfca
08-02-2011, 10:40 PM
To answer the OP's question.. trespassing law in CA is pretty weak. The land owner or his agent needs to tell a person not to be on the property for the laws to even kick in. The signs are fairly worthless. At least that's what they taught us in the academy..

There was some case law on this a couple years back which weakened the law further. Don't remember the case but you should be able to look it up.

CSACANNONEER
08-02-2011, 10:51 PM
To answer the OP's question.. trespassing law in CA is pretty weak. The land owner or his agent needs to tell a person not to be on the property for the laws to even kick in. The signs are fairly worthless. At least that's what they taught us in the academy..

There was some case law on this a couple years back which weakened the law further. Don't remember the case but you should be able to look it up.

The OP's question is: What, if anything, is the legal difference in the wording of the signs?

bohoki
08-03-2011, 12:20 AM
you put the plain ones on trees you put the other ones on a post

Notorious
08-03-2011, 7:15 AM
No difference unless there is a municipal code that says otherwise and gives registration requirements. Read the state law, penal code 602, et.al.

There's nothing in there that says you get a trump card in court if you can say, "Ha! My sign says posted on it!"

mikel7070
08-03-2011, 8:50 AM
Exactly, when we encounter so someone trespassing we typically admonish them and inform them the next time they are found on the property they could be arrested. Personally, I have yet to arrest someone for trespassing though I have known it to happen on occasion (likelyhood of reoccurrence etc).

9mmepiphany
08-03-2011, 10:17 AM
Ca PC is pretty clear on this and, I wish more LEOs knew about it. It normally takes an extra 30 minutes to an hour for me to educate them and then for them to verify my information is correct. It's a PITA to have to do this every time I need to have the law enforced.

The bottom line is that if I need to tresspass, I have the legal right to and I try to have the situational awareness and ability to bull scat my way out of any situation I find myself in.

Don't feel bad, I've done it from the other end. Folks will call about a stranger on their property...always with a gun...and I'd have to respond. Once I figured out who it was, I'd have to go back and explain it to the owner...the only up side is they usually believed me without too much argument.

I always thought it was pretty common knowledge that surveyors were exempt from trespass laws. I wonder if it is the folks just don't see many surveyors in general?

Joewy
08-03-2011, 10:37 AM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.


Not to argue but the state cannot grant you rights. They can grant you authority but they cannot grant you authority that violates others rights or is in violation of the constitution. And this obviously is.

NytWolf
08-03-2011, 11:36 AM
Penal Code 552. This article (552 - 555.5) does not apply to any entry in the course of duty of any peace or police officer or other duly authorized public officer, nor does it apply to the lawful use of an established and existing right of way for public road purposes.

So CSACANNONEER is correct in his duty, but that's not my original question.

The Penal Code doesn't say the difference between "Posted" and what not.

Notorious
08-03-2011, 12:14 PM
The government always has an easement on your private property to do their thing. If you look at your deed, you will see the language granting them a path to access water lines or power lines or whatever it may be that is on your property.

I know they give notice when they can but it's not required if they have that easement.

43Duc
08-03-2011, 3:40 PM
I don't know of any difference between the signs. In the city I work in, a trespasser has to be admonished by either the landowner or a police officer (at the direction of the land owner). If they fail to comply they can be arrested. It's only a misdo, so we usually require a PPA unless we admonish and we witness. I've yet to see a DA file on any of the 602 violations we've arrested.

We do have some bussinesses that have letters on file w/ the PD that request us to make arrests on their behalf if we find people on their property. I have yet to utilize one of those letters, so I don't know the legalities of it. I'm sure the city attorney has some input on the creation of those letters and our ability to act on them. Usually telling people to leave in lieu of being arrested works.

NytWolf
08-03-2011, 3:54 PM
I don't know of any difference between the signs. In the city I work in, a trespasser has to be admonished by either the landowner or a police officer (at the direction of the land owner). If they fail to comply they can be arrested. It's only a misdo, so we usually require a PPA unless we admonish and we witness. I've yet to see a DA file on any of the 602 violations we've arrested.

We do have some bussinesses that have letters on file w/ the PD that request us to make arrests on their behalf if we find people on their property. I have yet to utilize one of those letters, so I don't know the legalities of it. I'm sure the city attorney has some input on the creation of those letters and our ability to act on them. Usually telling people to leave in lieu of being arrested works.

Good to know though.

TheExpertish
08-03-2011, 4:47 PM
I don't know of any difference between the signs. In the city I work in, a trespasser has to be admonished by either the landowner or a police officer (at the direction of the land owner). If they fail to comply they can be arrested. It's only a misdo, so we usually require a PPA unless we admonish and we witness. I've yet to see a DA file on any of the 602 violations we've arrested.

We do have some bussinesses that have letters on file w/ the PD that request us to make arrests on their behalf if we find people on their property. I have yet to utilize one of those letters, so I don't know the legalities of it. I'm sure the city attorney has some input on the creation of those letters and our ability to act on them. Usually telling people to leave in lieu of being arrested works.

I agree. As far as PC is concerned there is no difference and the law is difficult to prosecute, but not so much to enforce. When advised they are trespassing 99% leave willingly. I served for a year as a rail enforcement officer for the local railroad. We were unsworn but were authorized by the district we served to make arrests. Trespassing calls were my bread and butter. We would call in local LE's to transport our prisoners, but all my trespassing arrests were "catch and release" and never prosecuted, even with our "regulars".

Andy Taylor
08-04-2011, 7:55 AM
No idea on the signs.
I have worked private security on and off for about 16 years. On many occassions I have had to tell people to leave a client's property. Only twice have they argued after being told that they would be arrested for tresspassing if they didn't leave. One time I called my dispatcher on the radio and told her to send the sheriff. The person left when they heard that. The second time they left when I said that I would also arrest for possession of stolen property if they did not leave. The property was the shopping cart that belonged to a neighboring store. I got the cart back and returned it to the store.

msteel
08-04-2011, 9:07 AM
I don't know but, niether apply to my profession (land surveying). We have the legal right to tresspass in Ca when nessessary to preform or job. Sometimes, that means tresspassing over a mile from the property in question and prior notice is not a requirement.


I wish I were a cartoonist. I have this awesome mental image of a land surveyor looking over my fence trying to explain to my growling 80lb German Shepherd that he has a "Legal right to trespass". :rofl:

CSACANNONEER
08-04-2011, 5:49 PM
In In reality, no sane surveyor would shoot a dog or a human just because they are blocking his entry. They would instead contact the owner of the dog or local law enforcement to gain entry. Or maybe try to go another way.


Having never met a sane surveyor, I'll have to take your word for it. But, I will agree that there is always a better way than putting oneself in a position where one needs to use force to defend oneself.

NorCalK9.com
08-04-2011, 8:18 PM
Sometimes we drive, sometimes we hike, sometimes we fly in with the company helicopter.



Are you really a deputy or other type of LEO? Ca PC is pretty clear on this and, I wish more LEOs knew about it. It normally takes an extra 30 minutes to an hour for me to educate them and then for them to verify my information is correct. It's a PITA to have to do this every time I need to have the law enforced.

I've had a few very high profile people held by local LEOs while I did my job. In Ca, a surveyor or anyone working for a surveyor has the legal "right of entry" (I don't know what "access rights" are in a legal sense). We try to make contact when we can but, many times, we just get in and get out. We do a lot of work on high end properties with high profile neighbors so, we do encounter private security as well as property owners at times. The bottom line is that if I need to tresspass, I have the legal right to and I try to have the situational awareness and ability to bull scat my way out of any situation I find myself in.

For those who don't want to believe this, here is the first link that my google fu produced:http://www.californiasurveyors.org/clsaforum/showthread.php?t=291
Please if you ever come to my property you will see warning police n military dogs on premises some of said dogs are loose and aint your grandpatents lab. Lol id personally be nervous going uninvited on people property.

cacop
08-04-2011, 10:30 PM
There is no difference between the signs. Our department has letter that people can leave with us giving us authority to cite for trespass as long as it is properly posted with locations prohibited and times if applicable.

CSACANNONEER
08-05-2011, 7:08 AM
Please if you ever come to my property you will see warning police n military dogs on premises some of said dogs are loose and aint your grandpatents lab. Lol id personally be nervous going uninvited on people property.

Being nervous/scare has helped keep me alive a few times. I always contact the owner/tenant when practical. When they resist or make threats, I have to call (and usually educate) local LEOs to help me do my job. This is very rare. I can usually talk my way in and try to tread lightly while tresspassing.