What if the SCOTUS ever decides that there is no individual RKBA?

[10TH AMENDMENT]

Assume for sake of argument that this actually happens in the next couple of years. Also assume that the FEDGOV (under a legally enforceable use of the Supremacy Clause) and the grand majority of the legislatures of the several states quickly begin to enact total bans on individual civilian firearm ownership (akin to Australia's ban). Further assume that the Fed/State executive branches sign these bills into law.

What will you do?

[M. Sage]

Well, umm....

I'm stocking up on ammo pretty good right now.

[AW-FANATIC]

I will cry for all humanity and all of those that fought to protect those beliefs.

[midnitereaper]

Assume for sake of argument that this actually happens in the next couple of years. Also assume that the FEDGOV (under a legally enforceable use of the Supremacy Clause) and the grand majority of the legislatures of the several states quickly begin to enact total bans on individual civilian firearm ownership (akin to Australia's ban). Further assume that the Fed/State executive branches sign these bills into law.

What will you do?

fight!

[FatKatMatt]

I will kill every piece of scum beaureacurat I can find until I'm gunned down myself.

[SemiAutoSam]

Lock and load.

and attempt to join forces with other like minded individuals.



Like it has been for the last 70 years or so.


I saw suggestion for survival forum here..... I think that would be a good idea... because that what it will become - survival....

that is said there will not be immideate ban on gun ownership. Out overlords are not that stupid. Ban will come slowly in incremental steps....

[mblat]

I saw suggestion for survival forum here..... I think that would be a good idea... because that what it will become - survival....

that is said there will not be immideate ban on gun ownership. Out overlords are not that stupid. Ban will come slowly in incremental steps....

[zinfull]

buy hi cap mags, suppressors, tracers, and anything else which was illegal when I care to obey the laws.

Jerry

[otalps]

become a criminal

[bwiese]

I don't have family (kids, etc.)

Many people like my cats and will take care of them.

Some of us will be standing in a pile of brass.

[aklover_91]

Why, I'll do the polite thing and give them my bullets first.

[stag1500]

Another revolution would definitely take place. At least we would go out fighting.

[pacificcoast]

a quote by thomas jefferson comes to mind:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

[rodgster]

I really hope, pray (I'm not religious) and will vote that it will never come to this. The way I see it, unless it is passed as a Constitutional Amendment, a patriot by the definition of our Founding Fathers (IMHO) would fight this in whatever means necessary, as they did the Revolutionary War.

IIRC service men and women among others take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution above anything else. Therefore they and anyone who is a rational citizen should be on our side.

[Blackwater OPS]

The revolutionary war started when the government came to disarm the people. I swore an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, I won't disarm. I seriously doubt the government could disarm gun owners if even a quarter of them fought; that's 10% of the population, many times larger than the armed forces and far more than enough to deal with like likes of the ATF.

After the first few raids people would begin to prepare to fight back, group together for defense, start planning counter attacks, it's natural. In the end a total gun ban would probably come with the final dying gasp of the entire bill of rights, the result we be a new libertarian government, a new dictatorship, or a new dark age.

In any case, it will be bloody and horrible, and I hope the day where the horror of fighting no longer outweighs the horror of non-resistance never comes.

[hoffmang]

When the chips are down - and I believe that that is what this scenario implies...

4 justices who understand that this can't be won 4-5 - they will make sure that there is no decision.

That is the reason no case has gone to answer this question in this way. We live in a republic, and not a democracy. The final call on liberty will be protected by the dissent - one way or another.

-Gene

[KenpoProfessor]

I don't have family (kids, etc.)

Many people like my cats and will take care of them.

Some of us will be standing in a pile of brass.

I don't have any cats, but I do love 'em.

I don't plan on standing tho, I like the prone under cover LOL.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[KenpoProfessor]

The revolutionary war started when the government came to disarm the people. I swore an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic, I won't disarm. I seriously doubt the government could disarm gun owners if even a quarter of them fought; that's 10% of the population, many times larger than the armed forces and far more than enough to deal with like likes of the ATF.

After the first few raids people would begin to prepare to fight back, group together for defense, start planning counter attacks, it's natural. In the end a total gun ban would probably come with the final dying gasp of the entire bill of rights, the result we be a new libertarian government, a new dictatorship, or a new dark age.

In any case, it will be bloody and horrible, and I hope the day where the horror of fighting no longer outweighs the horror of non-resistance never comes.

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."



I swore an oath to defend the COTUS as well, and being as I have no officers appointed over me or the UCMJ to contend with now, it's between me and the COTUS.

Our politicians our not working in The People's best interest, though they swore a similar oath. Should we not send them to jail for perjury?

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

[aileron]

I think this thread needs to be deleted to protect the innocent. That would be those of you who have stated your intentions.

I do not fear that people will refuse to take up the fight to protect our constitution IF the time comes for it. I think they will. My only hope is they realize that the enemy is not the military, or the police. That it is our politicians... they would be the target.

[Richie Rich]

I will get in line to turn my guns in, then go back to watching tv.....

[edwardm]

I think the composition of the court is such that they know not to open that Pandora's Box. I *think*.



Assume for sake of argument that this actually happens in the next couple of years. Also assume that the FEDGOV (under a legally enforceable use of the Supremacy Clause) and the grand majority of the legislatures of the several states quickly begin to enact total bans on individual civilian firearm ownership (akin to Australia's ban). Further assume that the Fed/State executive branches sign these bills into law.

What will you do?

[GJJ]

Seriously folks, we all are going to die someday. Can you think of a better way to go than standing up for RKBA?

[Aluisious]

Assume for sake of argument that this actually happens in the next couple of years. Also assume that the FEDGOV (under a legally enforceable use of the Supremacy Clause) and the grand majority of the legislatures of the several states quickly begin to enact total bans on individual civilian firearm ownership (akin to Australia's ban). Further assume that the Fed/State executive branches sign these bills into law.

What will you do?
Leave the country and work my way to Switzerland.

[dondo]

Seriously folks, we all are going to die someday. Can you think of a better way to go than standing up for RKBA?

yeah. Dying in my sleep after a long life with my wife and kids..........guns or no guns.

[aileron]

Visions of the Visage V come to mind...


I love that movie. Vendetta!!!

[triggerhappy]

Who cares what a bunch of idiots think? There comes a time when you can no longer allow legalistic meanderings to control your life. The government has only as much power as we allow it to have.

[triggerhappy]

I do not fear that people will refuse to take up the fight to protect our constitution IF the time comes for it. I think they will. My only hope is they realize that the enemy is not the military, or the police. That it is our politicians... they would be the target.

Anyone who enforces unjust laws, makes themselves the enemy. The cop who enforces unjust laws is just as culpable as the scum who thought up said laws.

"I was just doing my job" didn't work at Nuremburg, and it shouldn't anywhere else.

[GJJ]

"Dying in my sleep after a long life with my wife and kids..........guns or no guns."

I would rather die like a man than live like a slave.

[triggerhappy]

Then it seems as if you are in the minority.

[paradox]

Hokahey, today is a good day to die.
--Sioux war cry

"You have taken me prisoner with all my warriors. I am much grieved...I expected to hold out much longer and give you more trouble before I surrendered. Black Hawk is now a prisoner of the white man. But he can stand torture, and he is not afraid of death. He is no coward. Black Hawk is an Indian."
--Black Hawk, (Saulk)

A brave man dies but once --- cowards are always dying."
--Moanahonga, (Iowa)

[The Brit]

Realistically, I think that most of this "...I'll die fighting..." rhetoric is so much bravado and hot air. I doubt that very few folks would choose a violent confrontation if the authorities coming knocking on the door to confiscate firearms.

Nor do I think there will be armed uprising or revolution - that's wishful thinking, and while I'd love to think we'd see the types of activities described in the novel "Unintended Consequencies", in reality I doubt very much that would happen.

Would all gun owners meekly turn in their firearms? Most certainly not. Perhaps 50% or casual shooters might give up their guns, but I suspect the hard-core shooters and enthusiasts would suddenly 'loose' their guns, or have them mysteriously 'stolen'. The guns would be secreted away and an underground movement would appear- simiiar to the Secret Societies of past.

Just my pessimistic two cents worth.

[tgriffin]

"on every question of construction, carry ourselves back to a time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning can be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
-Thomas Jefferson

[paradox]

Realistically, I think that most of this "...I'll die fighting..." rhetoric is so much bravado and hot air. I doubt that very few folks would choose a violent confrontation if the authorities coming knocking on the door to confiscate firearms.

Would all gun owners meekly turn in their firearms? Most certainly not. Perhaps 50% or casual shooters might give up their guns, but I suspect the hard-core shooters and enthusiasts would suddenly 'loose' their guns, or have them mysteriously 'stolen'. The guns would be secreted away and an underground movement would appear- simiiar to the Secret Societies of past.

Choosing to resist doesn't mean you have to choose to fight stupidly.

“When they are strong, avoid them... Attack when they are unprepared, make your move when they do not expect it.” --Sun Tzu

[SemiAutoSam]

Have a look at the story at this URL It is what I expect the future to bring in the area of firearms ownership.


http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/sundown.html

[Blackwater OPS]

Realistically, I think that most of this "...I'll die fighting..." rhetoric is so much bravado and hot air. I doubt that very few folks would choose a violent confrontation if the authorities coming knocking on the door to confiscate firearms.

Nor do I think there will be armed uprising or revolution - that's wishful thinking...

Just my pessimistic two cents worth.

Ironic, thats what the Brits thought a little over 200 years ago as well. They were wrong. :D

[sthornwall]

Some of us will be standing in a pile of brass.

I have 23 friends who feel exactly the same, a millitia will be started and the country will be "Formatted" and "rebooted" with new leadership. Or I'll be six feet under, which ever comes first.

[midnitereaper]

I have 23 friends who feel exactly the same, a millitia will be started and the country will be "Formatted" and "rebooted" with new leadership. Or I'll be six feet under, which ever comes first.

militias have already been started. We have a couple here in both north and southern california.

[sthornwall]

militias have already been started. We have a couple here in both north and southern california.

Yeah you're right, I guess I joined without even realizing it.

[midnitereaper]

Yeah you're right, I guess I joined without even realizing it.

Who are you with? Is your group working on patrols of the border? I think we have another group patrolling at campo. PM me if you are interested in getting our groups together for training.

[zombieflanders]

We do need a survival forum. All in Favor?

[SemiAutoSam]

Aye...........

[dondo]

"Dying in my sleep after a long life with my wife and kids..........guns or no guns."

I would rather die like a man than live like a slave.

Last time I checked raising a family is more man than anything else I can think of. I never said I was going to surrender anything. what you can't find you can't take. I am not "going to be sitting in a pile of brass..." thats all.....

[midnitereaper]

Last time I checked raising a family is more man than anything else I can think of. I never said I was going to surrender anything. what you can't find you can't take. I am not "going to be sitting in a pile of brass..." thats all.....

"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

[dondo]

Are you implying that I am giving up any liberties? I am seeking some sort of temporary comfort by not stating in a public forum that I will be using armed resistance to some government force?

[ARmed]

This reminds me of an otherwise cheesy movie from the 80's called "Wolverines". In this survivalist movie, the Russians and Cubans invade the US. The Cuban commander's first action is to send his guys to City Hall to collect the gun registration forms so that they could disarm the public.........

[Californio]

Move to Texas:)

But seriously, I have seen the concept before. People of like mind moving into the same area, it does not take a majority to control a town, city, county, state. Pick a place and move there. Many people commute per the NET, you don't have to be at the office anymore. The wackos that rule my town get elected with only 8,000 votes because people don't vote, will not engage. I supported McClintock, he claims he lost because a poor turnout of conservative voters. I have voted in every election since I got the right but many don't. I think it would be very easy to take over a small City and setup a government that supports the full Bill of Rights as a foundation of how the City runs.

[dondo]

This reminds me of an otherwise cheesy movie from the 80's called "Wolverines". In this survivalist movie, the Russians and Cubans invade the US. The Cuban commander's first action is to send his guys to City Hall to collect the gun registration forms so that they could disarm the public.........

I think that was "Red Dawn".

[midnitereaper]

Are you implying that I am giving up any liberties? I am seeking some sort of temporary comfort by not stating in a public forum that I will be using armed resistance to some government force?

Its a quote by one of our founding fathers. IMO you have the freedom and right to decide if you will fight along side other patriots of this country in defence of our freedoms and liberty. You can say you wish not to join because of family. I have family too and it is a big decision to make but I have made it before in defence of this country and I will gladly do it again.

Please do not get upset but I am really interested in what you think. Do you feel you deserve freedom and liberty in this country if you are not willing to fight for it?

Oh and yes this is a public forum and big brother is probably watching but the topic is about a tyranical government and what we would do. There is nothing illegal in this conversation and it gives our government a heads up as to how the people feel in this country which will hopefully make them think twice before shredding the COTUS and BoR.

[Alanski56]

Aye...........

Second!

[Blackwater OPS]

Last time I checked raising a family is more man than anything else I can think of. I never said I was going to surrender anything. what you can't find you can't take. I am not "going to be sitting in a pile of brass..." thats all.....

Last time I checked I would not want my family to have to live in a place where freedom has been lost, or have to fight and die for it because I refused to.

Why hide your guns? What are going to do with them if you refuse to fight? Go out and target shoot when you know if you get caught you will end up in prison or killed?

[dondo]

Its a quote by one of our founding fathers. IMO you have the freedom and right to decide if you will fight along side other patriots of this country in defence of our freedoms and liberty. You can say you wish not to join because of family. I have family too and it is a big decision to make but I have made it before in defence of this country and I will gladly do it again.

Please do not get upset but I am really interested in what you think. Do you feel you deserve freedom and liberty in this country if you are not willing to fight for it?

Oh and yes this is a public forum and big brother is probably watching but the topic is about a tyranical government and what we would do. There is nothing illegal in this conversation and it gives our government a heads up as to how the people feel in this country which will hopefully make them think twice before shredding the COTUS and BoR.

"Do you feel you deserve freedom and liberty in this country if you are not willing to fight for it?"

I deserve my freedoms and my liberties guaranteed to me by the Bill of
Rights and the Constitution of the United States as does every other citizen regardless of what their opinion on any topic is. I never said I would not fight for my freedoms or my liberties. Just because I do not agree with some of the hypotheticals here, does not make me a traitor or a coward. Just because I will not be some squad leader in some militia on the front lines of gun confiscation does not make me some sort of communist or unworthy or ungrateful possessor of said rights.
I understand the content of this thread is a bit of grandstanding and thats great. I just personally will not be holing up and going down in a hail of gunfire because the State of California wants my guns.
For the record, as far as the Stae of California goes, I own and operate a small business here. I employ people. I vote. I send letters to elected officials on topics I do and do not agree with as much as I can. I am a member of the NRA. I am a Republican (not that it matters much I guess), I own guns, I support gun ownership, I take my employees shooting and have encouraged them to join the NRA. I pay a horrendous amount of money in taxes, and in Workmans Compensation. I have been bullied by the State, I have been taxed to high heaven just to run a business and employee people. The State really has neverr done anything for me. I have never used disabilty, never used unemployment or any other assistance. If it goes as far as gun confiscation or more rights being taken away, I will simply move.

[dondo]

Having said all that and wiping the tears from my eyes and finishing my paint by numbers unicorn mural, I realized something. I responded to the original question that said something about RKBA and I took that as California. Damn acronyms. I might be wrong...and something tells me I will find out. It doesnt change the way I feel, just might make my statements irrelevant to this thread. If so I apologize.
dondo

[midnitereaper]

"Do you feel you deserve freedom and liberty in this country if you are not willing to fight for it?"

I deserve my freedoms and my liberties guaranteed to me by the Bill of
Rights and the Constitution of the United States as does every other citizen regardless of what their opinion on any topic is. I never said I would not fight for my freedoms or my liberties. Just because I do not agree with some of the hypotheticals here, does not make me a traitor or a coward. Just because I will not be some squad leader in some militia on the front lines of gun confiscation does not make me some sort of communist or unworthy or ungrateful possessor of said rights.
I understand the content of this thread is a bit of grandstanding and thats great. I just personally will not be holing up and going down in a hail of gunfire because the State of California wants my guns.
For the record, as far as the Stae of California goes, I own and operate a small business here. I employ people. I vote. I send letters to elected officials on topics I do and do not agree with as much as I can. I am a member of the NRA. I am a Republican (not that it matters much I guess), I own guns, I support gun ownership, I take my employees shooting and have encouraged them to join the NRA. I pay a horrendous amount of money in taxes, and in Workmans Compensation. I have been bullied by the State, I have been taxed to high heaven just to run a business and employee people. The State really has neverr done anything for me. I have never used disabilty, never used unemployment or any other assistance. If it goes as far as gun confiscation or more rights being taken away, I will simply move.

Thank you for your answer. Where will you move to?

[dondo]

Thank you for your answer. Where will you move to?

there is an offshore platform near England for something like 98,000,000.00 so thats an option.
In all reality out of California I would consider Arizona or Texas. Texas has some of the nicest people I have ever come across.

[midnitereaper]

there is an offshore platform near England for something like 98,000,000.00 so thats an option.
In all reality out of California I would consider Arizona or Texas. Texas has some of the nicest people I have ever come across.

If I understand the OP correctly this change would be nation wide as the COTUS represents the Nation and not just the state of CA.

[dondo]

If I understand the OP correctly this change would be nation wide as the COTUS represents the Nation and not just the state of CA.

Thats why I said I think I misunderstood the original statement I originally resonded to. I got my acronyms confused. I took RKBA meaning California when I think you guys use PROK or something like that. What is RKBA if I have it wrong.

[AJAX22]

with the advent of the 'patriot' act people need to tread very carefully on this kind of subject, I don't think its a coincidence thay they call it the 'patriot' act, they will mostly use it to keep tabs on patriots.

[dondo]

AHHHHH...Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Forgive me for this little Threes Company episode of acronym misunderstanding.

[SemiAutoSam]

Not to correct but you will usually find PRK and PRC for peoples republic of California.

Have been using this term to show disdain for this state since the early 90's

I always use PRC but PRK works just as well.





AHHHHH...Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Forgive me for this little Threes Company episode of acronym misunderstanding.

[odysseus]

Outside of this armed resistance talk here, tell me - when has any law not grounded in the will of people worked? When did any prohibition past and present really work that was not naturally followed by the people work? Look only to the current issues at hand to see how something like this would work out.

Now - here's the game. It's a cultural fight. Nothing like this won't happen until a large enough populace seems to turn in this badly thought belief that this right is not an inalienable right. However it is happening. There was just a poll conducted on some early teens and more than expected they were echoing the thoughts and beliefs of what we might call the gun grabbing socialists in our country. The cultural war is being fought in the classrooms and rule books, and soccer moms across our country. Historical relevance means nothing to them; the "fathers" were wrong. A cultural revolution - but played out in such slow increments.

The leftist socialists have been slowly fighting an agenda, and that agenda has been on the children. Give it another 20 years. Then let's ask the question again. BTW - I am not an old man, I am a "younger" Gen-X'er.

[aileron]

Just to take this in a new direction, what do you think the anti-gunners on both the liberal, and conservative fronts will do....

If the Parker Vs. DC say's its an individual right, and it doesnt go to SCOTUS and people buy guns in DC to protect themsevls and crime drops like a rock?


Besides me laughing real hard about the truth finally being at their door step. I wonder what these brainless people would start coming up with at that point.

BTW... I hope this is what happens.

[Alanski56]

I would fight! My wife and children understand and accept this. They understand that there are certain principals that are worth fighting for, and if necessary, dying for. And this, my friends, is at the top of the list. Outside of my family, the only other entity that I am accountable to is my Savior and in this particular circumstance, I would be more than cool with my choice to fight.

Have a nice day.

[shark92651]

I'll move to another country if that happens because at that point this will no longer the the country I know and love.

[hoffmang]

tree,

I doubt we'll get M16s first. If SCOTUS were to take Parker then it would drive a nail in the coffin of a lot of extreme safe storage laws and handgun bans.

It will be follow up cases that occur after some gun controls die that are less controversial in their removal before we get all the way to real M4s.

-Gene

[hoffmang]

Funny you mention tracers. I think California's tracer ban would likely be upheld in all but strict scrutiny as there was a lot of evidence at the time that tracers were starting forest fires..

I'm just amused thinking about how the 9th would try to ignore a SCOTUS Parker decision.

-Gene

[rorschach]

Besides, tracers work both ways.

[M. Sage]

Realistically, I think that most of this "...I'll die fighting..." rhetoric is so much bravado and hot air. I doubt that very few folks would choose a violent confrontation if the authorities coming knocking on the door to confiscate firearms.

Nope, if there's a call put out for disarmament after such a disastrous decision, they can knock on my door till it falls down, I won't be home.

However, fascists might fall down from time to time in random places, and not get up again.

[dondo]

Last time I checked I would not want my family to have to live in a place where freedom has been lost, or have to fight and die for it because I refused to.

Why hide your guns? What are going to do with them if you refuse to fight? Go out and target shoot when you know if you get caught you will end up in prison or killed?

Well if you currently reside in California or anywhere else in the United States you are living in a place where Freedoms are being lost at an alarming rate. Like I said, I vote in every election, I am a member of the NRA, I encourage my employees to partake in our little shoots, and I try to be as active in sending letters regarding relative issues. That being said I am currently on the front lines of at least maintaining some of our rights. Don't take or insult or otherwise find fault with my statement with I would'nt just grab my guns and go to war.
Personally, in my opinion, if it came to gunfights and militias, that would be basically a civil war and the ultimate SHTF situation. I would be way more concerned about food, safety and survival than fighting some other force. Of course my guns would be a huge part of that.
As far as hiding guns, I merley said if you come to get them, it will be a fruitless search. Will I be barricading myself and family up? No way. A search for weapons under the current situation is completely different than a nation under lockdown.
Anyway, I later added I misread the original quote and apologized. These are just my personal feelings and in no way implying they are right or better than anyone elses. Cheers.

[Blackwater OPS]

Well if you currently reside in California or anywhere else in the United States you are living in a place where Freedoms are being lost at an alarming rate. Like I said, I vote in every election, I am a member of the NRA, I encourage my employees to partake in our little shoots, and I try to be as active in sending letters regarding relative issues. That being said I am currently on the front lines of at least maintaining some of our rights. Don't take or insult or otherwise find fault with my statement with I would'nt just grab my guns and go to war.
Personally, in my opinion, if it came to gunfights and militias, that would be basically a civil war and the ultimate SHTF situation. I would be way more concerned about food, safety and survival than fighting some other force. Of course my guns would be a huge part of that.
As far as hiding guns, I merley said if you come to get them, it will be a fruitless search. Will I be barricading myself and family up? No way. A search for weapons under the current situation is completely different than a nation under lockdown.
Anyway, I later added I misread the original quote and apologized. These are just my personal feelings and in no way implying they are right or better than anyone elses. Cheers.

Yes, we are losing our rights at an alarming rate, hence this discussion. I do not think we have yet reached the point where a fight would be better than to stand for a futher loss of freedom, but that point may come soon. Certainly if we reach a "Nazi Germany" level, that point has been reached.

As for not fighting when we reach that point, here is some reading for you:

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution,
are worth defending at all hazards;
and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.
We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors:
they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure
and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation,
enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us
by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them
by the artifices of false and designing men...

All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should... The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms...

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.:mad:


-Samuel Adams

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out right ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, "I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
--U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95


When asked earlier why she carried that .38 Smith & Wesson concealed in her purse while promoting gun control for the rest of us, Feinstein answered, “I know the urge to arm yourself because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. I’d walk to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon. I made the determination that if somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me.”

[dondo]

Yes, we are losing our rights at an alarming rate, hence this discussion. I do not think we have yet reached the point where a fight would be better than to stand for a futher loss of freedom, but that point may come soon. Certainly if we reach a "Nazi Germany" level, that point has been reached.

As for not fighting when we reach that point, here is some reading for you:

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution,
are worth defending at all hazards;
and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.
We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors:
they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure
and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence.
It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation,
enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us
by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them
by the artifices of false and designing men...

All might be free if they valued freedom, and defended it as they should... The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms...

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.:mad:


-Samuel Adams

Those are great words and not taken lightly, however I never said I would not fight. My decision to fight and the timing of such might lay in a different climate than yours. Your response to my posts are respectful and enlightening and for that I thank you.

[heyjak]

Excellent discussion! Thank you all for speaking in a gentlemanly (?) and respectful way! Great thought-provoking discussion!:)

[Blackwater OPS]

Those are great words and not taken lightly, however I never said I would not fight. My decision to fight and the timing of such might lay in a different climate than yours. Your response to my posts are respectful and enlightening and for that I thank you.

Fair enough, the time to fight is something every man has to choose for himself. Personally, when they come for my guns, that's the time, not only because that is sure sign liberty has been lost, but because after that I may not be able to fight.

[dondo]

Fair enough, the time to fight is something every man has to choose for himself. Personally, when they come for my guns, that's the time, not only because that is sure sign liberty has been lost, but because after that I may not be able to fight.

You got yourself a damn good point there. Regardless , I am putting extra beer in the survival chest for all calgunners. It might be warm since electricity will be down, but it will be good...that I assure you.

[tman]

First I would like to say that I doubt anything like this would ever happen. One day just deciding to completely wipe out the 2nd Amendment would not be a strategically wise thing to do. Not only are we slowly loosing our rights, but people are slowly becoming conditioned to accept this. You can see it in the way that so many people view guns as "bad". They are currently having MUCH more success incrementally deteriorating our rights little by little. Every law that infringes upon the absolute right to bear arms - no matter how small - is another step. This is why ANY type of "Gun Control" must be resisted COMPLETELY. There is no such thing as "reasonable" "Gun Control" laws. Politicians do like to use that phrase because it works for them.



I think by the time the last law was put into action, the last "nail in the coffin" that effectively wiped out the 2nd Amendment, there would be almost no chance at any kind of armed resistance. I say this for a few reasons. For one, every "Gun Control" law made, in theory, will result in less gun owners. Therefore, in theory, there would be a much smaller number of gun owners by that time.

Also, the guns those people would be allowed to have at that point would most likely be nothing compared to what the law military/government/law enforcement would have. You already see the foundations of this taking place in the way certain guns are being classified as "strictly for military/government/law enforcement use", and those that are designed for "hunting/sporting" uses.



That being said, if it DID happen, I wonder what would take place as a result. Sure, a lot of people like to spout phrases like "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ", but how many really mean it? Sure, maybe the true 2nd Amendment supporters and patriots would be willing to fight for their freedom, but what percentage of the population do you think that is? Isn't it more likely that a small percentage of people would organize before being demonized by the ruling class (and therefore media) as being "extremists", "terrorists", or "anti-American"?

On the other hand, it is possible. If there was some kind of drastic, successful move to eliminate the 2nd Amendment, it could actually be good for us. It could be what finally ignites the fire and wakes the rest of America up to what we already know and feel. I think "Gun Control" advocates know this, and this is why they would opt for the "incremental route".

Keep in mind that if we become more active in the fight against "Gun Control", and continue to "wake-up" friends, family, and anyone else we can make things much better without getting anywhere near that point. Sites like this one and especially the people on it are priceless to our cause. I have great hope that we can win this battle. Positive thinking works.

Just another person's opinion. :cool:

[hoffmang]

There is one fact that will make it hard for all of our gun rights to be taken away.


In 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million firearms, 65 million of which were handguns. Although there were enough guns to have provided every U.S. adult with one, only 25 percent of adults actually owned firearms; 74 percent of gun owners possessed two or more.


That helps preserve our rights quite a bit. Add federalism in the since that many states are starting to be rabidly pro gun (see the Attorney Generals who filed Amici Briefs in Parker for example) and we've got a long way to go before we have to resist with strength.

However, there are lots of ways to fight this so we never get there.

-Gene

[SemiAutoSam]

OK which of you guys is in the 25 percent of us that only own one stinkin gun.

Get to the gun shop asap and BUY BUY BUY This is a travesty.

Although there were enough guns to have provided every U.S. adult with one, only 25 percent of adults actually owned firearms; 74 percent of gun owners possessed two or more.

[shooterx10]

Why hide your guns? What are going to do with them if you refuse to fight? Go out and target shoot when you know if you get caught you will end up in prison or killed?

+1 on that one!

If you have to bury your guns, perhaps, it's about time you dug them up and get them ready to be used? This time, it won't matter if you have a fixed mag build, a gripless + detachable magazine, preban ,postban, or what not! :mad:

This thread reminds me of Matthew Bracken's book. If you have not read it, perhaps it's about time you did?

http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/bookcover.jpg

Psalm 144:1 - Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

[AJAX22]

The reason to hide guns is not so that you can sneak out later and go target shooting, its so you have reserves to draw upon.

Think about it.

Most of us here have more guns than we have index fingers, how many can you effectivly use? I've carried a half dozen long guns and assorted pistols on my back a few miles to go shooting... it sucked... and I didn't have anywhere near enough ammo for them.

If you wind up engaged in gurilla combat, there's a pretty good chance that you'll have to abandon your arms occasionally to blend in/fade away.

how unreasonable is it to say that for every dozen guns in your collection you may want to put one away for the day after it rains.

Wouldn't it be nice if our fathers had burried a few things before 1968? or if our grandfathers had burried a few things before 1934?

Just because we have them now, doesn't mean we'll have access to them forever.

What if posession of high cap mags becomes illigal? its already illigal for our childeren to inherit them. if they were born after 1999 that is.

we've won a huge victory with the OLL situation.. but chances are it won't last, and as a man who was 17 when the ban was passed, I can tell you what life looks like without quality combat weapons.. its a mini 14 with a five round mag and a m1 carbine that you're scared to take out with the 30 round mag you bought years before at the swapmeet because the police may not understand the law and getting the police called on you when you're out shooting your 10/22 with a 25 round buttler creek magazine because you 'may have a machine gun' really sucks.

think of it as tithing 10 percent to the gun gods

[Blackwater OPS]

The reason to hide guns is not so that you can sneak out later and go target shooting, its so you have reserves to draw upon.

Think about it.

Most of us here have more guns than we have index fingers, how many can you effectivly use? I've carried a half dozen long guns and assorted pistols on my back a few miles to go shooting... it sucked... and I didn't have anywhere near enough ammo for them.

If you wind up engaged in gurilla combat, there's a pretty good chance that you'll have to abandon your arms occasionally to blend in/fade away.

how unreasonable is it to say that for every dozen guns in your collection you may want to put one away for the day after it rains.

Wouldn't it be nice if our fathers had burried a few things before 1968? or if our grandfathers had burried a few things before 1934?

Just because we have them now, doesn't mean we'll have access to them forever.


That's a pretty good point. I think I may buy 5 or 6 AKs cheap, and plenty of replacement parts for my German AK mags, and a few thousand rounds of 7.62x39 to stockpile. Now the question is where to stash them. Well, that's one thing I WON'T be posting online...

[10TH AMENDMENT]

+1 on that one!

If you have to bury your guns, perhaps, it's about time you dug them up and get them ready to be used? This time, it won't matter if you have a fixed mag build, a gripless + detachable magazine, preban ,postban, or what not! :mad:

This thread reminds me of Matthew Bracken's book. If you have not read it, perhaps it's about time you did?

http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/bookcover.jpg

Psalm 144:1 - Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

You talking about this book?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010025.jpg

[tman]

You talking about this book?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010025.jpg
Goes nice right beside that Urban Combat book :cool:

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Book Description
DOMESTIC ENEMIES: THE RECONQUISTA is a novel set in the near future in the American Southwest, during a period of low-intensity civil war. The action takes place between Texas and California, but the story is mainly centered around New Mexico. Domestic Enemies: The Reconquista is a sequel to Enemies Foreign And Domestic, but it may be enjoyed on its own.

About the Author
Matthew Bracken was born in Baltimore, Maryland in 1957, and he graduated from the University of Virginia and Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training in 1979. He is married, has two children and lives in Florida. He is currently writing the final novel in the Enemies trilogy, and he hopes that this one will take less than two years to finish. After that, there are another dozen novels patiently waiting in line to be written, if there is time and a willing audience.

[jumbopanda]

OK which of you guys is in the 25 percent of us that only own one stinkin gun.

Get to the gun shop asap and BUY BUY BUY This is a travesty.

I have three, but I'm gonna head to the garage and build build build those AKs! :D

[paradox]

Also, the guns those people would be allowed to have at that point would most likely be nothing compared to what the law military/government/law enforcement would have. You already see the foundations of this taking place in the way certain guns are being classified as "strictly for military/government/law enforcement use", and those that are designed for "hunting/sporting" uses.

You don't take on the Redcoats head to head in an open field. You snipe them from the bushes and lynch their supporters when they aren't around. Nice, accurate, scoped hunting rifles would work well enough...

[tiki]

You talking about this book?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010025.jpg


Dude, that kicks you know what!!!!! Haa Haa Haa. I Love It!!!!



It is better to live one day like a lion than a lifetime like a lamb.
-Jimmy Page

[dondo]

The reason to hide guns is not so that you can sneak out later and go target shooting, its so you have reserves to draw upon.

Think about it.

Most of us here have more guns than we have index fingers, how many can you effectivly use? I've carried a half dozen long guns and assorted pistols on my back a few miles to go shooting... it sucked... and I didn't have anywhere near enough ammo for them.

If you wind up engaged in gurilla combat, there's a pretty good chance that you'll have to abandon your arms occasionally to blend in/fade away.

how unreasonable is it to say that for every dozen guns in your collection you may want to put one away for the day after it rains.

Wouldn't it be nice if our fathers had burried a few things before 1968? or if our grandfathers had burried a few things before 1934?

Just because we have them now, doesn't mean we'll have access to them forever.

What if posession of high cap mags becomes illigal? its already illigal for our childeren to inherit them. if they were born after 1999 that is.

we've won a huge victory with the OLL situation.. but chances are it won't last, and as a man who was 17 when the ban was passed, I can tell you what life looks like without quality combat weapons.. its a mini 14 with a five round mag and a m1 carbine that you're scared to take out with the 30 round mag you bought years before at the swapmeet because the police may not understand the law and getting the police called on you when you're out shooting your 10/22 with a 25 round buttler creek magazine because you 'may have a machine gun' really sucks.

think of it as tithing 10 percent to the gun gods

Exactly what I was thinking. Well said.

[aileron]

Dont forget when you guys are thinking about putting stuff underground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar

[10TH AMENDMENT]

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/solascriptura1984/P1010025.jpg
Goes nice right beside that Urban Combat book :cool:

I hope you are not suggesting that that is a bad thing!

[SemiAutoSam]

I suppose this means we bury items in and around Iron pipes then. and depending on how large this equipment is that they might use to see our weapons bury them in and under concrete and or also in walls within a structure.

I found a old Thompson machine gun in a wall in a old house I lived in in Reno Nevada. Maybe someone in the future will find it again. :rolleyes:

Don't forget when you guys are thinking about putting stuff underground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar

Can you tell here I buried my ex wife and scanned the area later.
http://www.geo-radar.pl/images/leke_krasowe_hi.jpg

[slingshot]

The reason to hide guns is not so that you can sneak out later and go target shooting, its so you have reserves to draw upon.
Wouldn't it be nice if our fathers had burried a few things before 1968? or if our grandfathers had burried a few things before 1934?


On a side note, how would you actually go about burrying a gun so that it would survive in a shootable condition for 65 years? I doubt its really that easy.

[paradox]

On a side note, how would you actually go about burrying a gun so that it would survive in a shootable condition for 65 years? I doubt its really that easy.


Cosmoline, it's not just for C&Rs anymore. http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1134

[dondo]

I suppose this means we bury items in and around Iron pipes then. and depending on how large this equipment is that they might use to see our weapons bury them in and under concrete and or also in walls within a structure.

I found a old Thompson machine gun in a wall in a old house I lived in in Reno Nevada. Maybe someone in the future will find it again. :rolleyes:



Can you tell here I buried my ex wife and scanned the area later.
http://www.geo-radar.pl/images/leke_krasowe_hi.jpg

Whoa wait just a cotton pickin minute.....you found a Thompson machine gun IN YOUR WALL? You need to play the lottey as well my friend.....lucky you. I found a dead rat in my wall once...not nearly as exciting as a one of the coolest firearms in history but hey.......some of us get rocks, some of us get diamonds.

[Bishop]

Remember guys, going out in a blaze of glory may seem like quite the statement, but I think you know you'll do the resistance more good alive than dead.

If the worst does happen, I hope that those that will fight will pick their battles until there comes a serious, organized resistance to stand up with.

All we can do for now is prepare.

[M. Sage]

Remember guys, going out in a blaze of glory may seem like quite the statement, but I think you know you'll do the resistance more good alive than dead.

+1 to that.

Bug out, or stash your stuff. Either way, make sure you help the local FFL torch all his files! :D

Long burn, long haul. Guerilla tactics will win, not going Rambo.

[hoffmang]

The funny part all, is that if you have the resources, federalism is your friend. This is a state that wishes to do everything possible to undermine its own success.

Create an environment that creates the future. Check. Tax it into oblivion and incent the best and brightest with the most agile capital to leave. Check.

Bury your guns when Texas isn't pro gun.

-Gene