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kjgun
08-01-2011, 4:04 AM
What are your preferred 9mm semi-autos with a manual safety?

I'm not currently doing anything for CCW, but looking for something that I could use at the range as well as holster drills at any open range someday when I might want to do more defense classes. Even with training, and it's between the ears is what counts, I feel it as another safety mechanism to have. Better safe than sorry.

I was interested in 9mm (instead of 45 as I'm sure many will say get a 1911 due to the 3 safety mechanisms) since it saves on the different types of ammo I would need at a range or in a worse case scenario of a SHTF scenario where it would be easier to have the same ammo instead of one of everything.

209Man
08-01-2011, 5:44 AM
Ruger SR9 has a nice manual safety, not bulky at all.

Quiet
08-01-2011, 7:28 AM
What are your preferred 9mm semi-autos with a manual safety?

Browning High Power
CZ CZ-75 SP-01
Daewoo DP-51
H&K USP-9
H&K USP-9 Compact
SIG P-210

Farnsworth
08-01-2011, 7:41 AM
CZ 75 / SP 01

Oceanbob
08-01-2011, 7:47 AM
Browning Hi Power or any of the HK products that fit your hand and budget.

BHPFan
08-01-2011, 7:54 AM
Browning Hi Power
9mm 1911's.

Molby242
08-01-2011, 8:01 AM
As mentioned before, HK USP Compact 9 or FNP-9

both have thumb safeties and can decock

Curley Red
08-01-2011, 8:03 AM
Ruger SR9C if you plan to carry concealed. Has both the thumb safety on both sides and the trigger safety.

Cruznegao
08-01-2011, 8:07 AM
Ruger P95. I compare this gun to a mutt.

1 - It won't cost you an arm and leg a like the pure breed (+- $300 when Turners have them on sale)
2 - It doesn't need a special diet. Eats just about everything that you feed them.
3 - It might not look like a show dog, but it will keep you company and be loyal.
4 - It will go through everything with you

sk8804
08-01-2011, 8:52 AM
ruger sr9 or M&P 9 single shot conversion to get the thumb safety model.

SA227driver
08-01-2011, 8:59 AM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

sniper4usmc
08-01-2011, 9:01 AM
SR9 or Taurus PT 92/99

ZombieTactics
08-01-2011, 9:17 AM
Ruger SR Series ... definately.

5RZYIw-ek0o

Oceanbob
08-01-2011, 9:32 AM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

THIS...^^^

Back in the 70s and 80s the .45 auto (with the thumb safety) was king of Competition Matches. Everyone had the same time loss; the time it took to thumb-down that safety lever was equal for everyone.

Then by the 90s, people showed up with Glocks. No time lost activating and no time lost thinking about that safety lever. The advantage in a combat situation is slight but good enough to survive. The .45 auto 1911 crowd started buying striker fired Glocks to survive these gun games. These days you rarely see a man with a 1911 who isn't a professional from the old days. :D

Think of a GLOCK as a double action revolver with a transfer bar. Only ONE rule to follow with a revolver, which has no external safety; Keep your finger outside of the trigger guard until the weapon is pointed at your target and your ready to fire. Basic safety that should apply to every gun handling situation. That premise and hablt pattern is inside your head.

Another thing to keep in mind if you're wanting an external safety lever is that (for instance) the 1911 and Browning Hi-Power platforms require a loaded chamber with a Cocked Hammer (single action) over that firing pin.

Cocked and locked is the term. These days, I prefer not to add another step into a 'Pull and Shoot' situation. I don't want to even think about thumbing off that safety lever on the 'way out' of a holster or waistband. Too much reliance on grip position that might have to change after the thumb-down operation. And my old 1911s and my BHP have very light triggers. Much lighter than my Glock. I might be so 'in a hurry' that I might shoot someone
un-intentionally with my cocked and unlocked single action auto pistol.

JMO...

Be well,
Bob

brownfeathermedic
08-01-2011, 9:41 AM
Get a Sig p-226 in 9mm,awesome trigger safety, and accurate out of the box.
I prefer the p-220 as a .45 cal. same manual of arms to get use to it and feels great in the hands. you wont be sorry.

LBDamned
08-01-2011, 3:15 PM
HK USP is my favorite safety/decocker (but even the compact is not good for cc)...

Taurus 24/7 is very good too (up for safe up one more for decock, even though its striker fired), it's much more low profile so would be good for cc... I'm pretty sure the Millennium series has the same design

morrcarr67
08-01-2011, 3:35 PM
Just in case you didn't hear I'll say it again.

Browning Hi-Power

dedub
08-01-2011, 3:59 PM
Beretta 92fs is the way to go, assuming your hands are big enough.

Sam
08-01-2011, 7:44 PM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

I'll never claim to have as much experience as some but I don't think a thumb safety on my Wilson ever slowed me down. My thumb rode the thumb safety when firing so I'd just assume a normal firing grip and get to shooting. It was something I did between clearing the holster and aligning my sights. The Beretta has a funky safety that isn't is as intuitive as a 1911.

leelaw
08-01-2011, 7:47 PM
CZ SP-01
SA 9mm 1911

zfields
08-01-2011, 8:32 PM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DUWY2sBVat0/TV7_cCfsVII/AAAAAAAAAHU/AHnJ1NY_pb4/DSC00370.JPG

nuff said.

RollingCode3
08-01-2011, 8:32 PM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

+1

I dont see a purpose for a manual safety on a HD/CCW handgun (except for the 1911). Under stress, you probably forget to switch the safety off. just my 2 cents

InGrAM
08-01-2011, 8:38 PM
Cz-75
Usp 9mm
1911 in 9mm
Hi power

PRCABR4Christ
08-01-2011, 8:45 PM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

every service pistol the military has adopted has had a manual safety, I'm sure they have no problems deactivating safeties

I prefer steel pistols with manual safeties aka BHP's and 1911's, that's all I will probably ever buy again :D

LBDamned
08-01-2011, 9:02 PM
four of my six pistols have thumb safeties - I am very proficient with engaging them (other than the PX4 which I cant stand the safety)... from holster or quick acquisition from location for HD...

I'm not here to tell others that they must have one... however, I will tell those that think others shouldn't - you're wrong. I am much more comfortable in a defense situation with a safety (and no, I am not slowed down with one)... I am also more comfortable holstering with a safety.

There is no "one" best way... just what's "best" for you.

zippo
08-01-2011, 9:03 PM
use 3gen S&W like 3913,6906,5906 all with mag safty,

CZ and HP is best new gun U can buy but S&W will cost less.

den888
08-01-2011, 9:06 PM
1911, BHP, Beretta 92FS, S&W 469/669/459/659

tacticalcity
08-02-2011, 12:02 AM
I would personally prefer NOT to have a thumb safety. If you took a professional 4 Day Defensive Handgun Course you would no longer feel you needed one. That would be all the training you needed to build-up your confidence and skill level to the point you no longer need one. Please don't take that as an insult. I considered my self an experience shooter when I used to believe I needed a thumb safety as well. Only after getting some top notch training and being introduced to a Glock in that defensive and realistic environment did I truly see the error of my ways. The trigger safety does it's job. You're smart enough to learn to keep your finger off the trigger until you have made the decision to fire. So there is no need for a thumb safety. All they do is slow you down, and in many cases trip you up. But, since you wanted a list of guns we like and recommend that have a thumb safety, I will list a few I like.

You also ruled out the 1911. So I won't go there in detail either. If I did it would be ranked second on my list after the Hi-Power (when looking at 9mms - 45s would be a different story).

Here is a short list of the thumb safety equipped 9mm handguns I happen to like...but none more than I like the Glock 17.

1) Hi-Power 9mm either from Browning or FN. It is a Single Action Only or SAO handgun that has a thumb safety that is NOT a decocker. It allows you to carry cocked and locked like a 1911. It has a very rich military history around the world. Stock they are not always sexy but they are functional and classic. Add a few modifications and they are sexy as heck.

2) H&K USP with a V1 trigger. It is Double Action / Single Action. Also can be carried cocked and locked. However the safety is also a decocker. The tendency when under high stress is to push too far on the safety and decock it. At which point you have a harder first trigger pull in order to get the hammer cocked back and fire. Also has a rich military history.

3) H&K P30 with a V1 trigger. Same as above but with a built in rail and more modern and ergonomic grip.

Any DA/SA gun that cannot be carried cocked and locked is not something I would be a huge fan of. I am specifically not a fan of the Beretta 92 or 96. That after many years of experience with the M9, and later owning one in civilian life.

Anchors
08-02-2011, 12:27 AM
+1

I dont see a purpose for a manual safety on a HD/CCW handgun (except for the 1911). Under stress, you probably forget to switch the safety off. just my 2 cents

+2.

I don't own any handguns with manual safeties.
When I get around to getting a 1911, that will probably be the one and only.

Raptor3000
08-02-2011, 4:34 AM
How come no one recommends Beretta PX4? I am not recommending it, but wondering why it's not talked about. Just want to know if people like it.



thanks

RollingCode3
08-02-2011, 5:25 AM
Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands.- Jeff Cooper

ZombieTactics
08-02-2011, 9:50 AM
... Under stress, you probably forget to switch the safety off. just my 2 cents If you have to remember to disengage the safety then you aren't training correctly, or enough. Disengaging the safety should be a reflexive, automatic movement at "count 3" of a standard 5-count draw, or the point in any method or presentation when the muzzle is rotating up towards the target.

As such, any well-designed safety mechanism is a trivial matter.

corcoraj2002
08-02-2011, 9:59 AM
I have the Beretta M9 and a 1911, the decocker on the Beretta is different to the "pure" safety on a 1911. in that you need to pull it DA.

For HD I have a Springfield XD (in .40). The three different safeties on this are enough and I do not have to worry about the manual safety.

J.D.Allen
08-02-2011, 10:01 AM
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DUWY2sBVat0/TV7_cCfsVII/AAAAAAAAAHU/AHnJ1NY_pb4/DSC00370.JPG

nuff said.

This. My EDC. Except I took off the ambi safety lever. It used to get in the way of my trigger finger.

Boltz
08-02-2011, 10:41 AM
How come no one recommends Beretta PX4? I am not recommending it, but wondering why it's not talked about. Just want to know if people like it.



thanks

Personally, when I held one it felt clunky and cheap in my hands, and the safety was hard for me to engage/disengage.

As far as the safety thing goes, all of my guns have safeties to keep me consistently using them. If you are already trained on using the safety on your AR, then what's the difference from having one on your handgun? Do the people who complain about safeties on pistols have issues with safeties on rifles as well?

J.D.Allen
08-02-2011, 11:34 AM
Personally, when I held one it felt clunky and cheap in my hands, and the safety was hard for me to engage/disengage.

As far as the safety thing goes, all of my guns have safeties to keep me consistently using them. If you are already trained on using the safety on your AR, then what's the difference from having one on your handgun? Do the people who complain about safeties on pistols have issues with safeties on rifles as well?

Good point

12voltguy
08-02-2011, 11:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTalnzcO0xk

ZombieTactics
08-02-2011, 11:50 AM
^^^ There you go ... the typical "awesome operators don't use safeties" meme. Now, let's all repeat it over-n-over so that we can all feel like we are as "cool" as some awesome operator, without putting an ounce of actual thought into the question.

Clue to the adolescents: If you think your apprehension of manhood has anything at all to do with your opinion regarding safety mechanisms on pistols ... grow a pair and start thinking like a man.

(no insult to the poster, it's a cool clip ... very entertaining)

RollingCode3
08-02-2011, 12:17 PM
If you have to remember to disengage the safety then you aren't training correctly, or enough. Disengaging the safety should be a reflexive, automatic movement at "count 3" of a standard 5-count draw, or the point in any method or presentation when the muzzle is rotating up towards the target.

As such, any well-designed safety mechanism is a trivial matter.

Easier said than done. Most people dont own one platform, train with one platform and shoot with one platform. They change handguns faster than i change my clothes.

There is a huge difference between switching the safety off during training and picking up your gun at 3am in the morning while someone is trying to kick down your door.

Once I stopped buying firearms for the sake of buying firearms I went to all Glock, all 9mm.

I keep my 1911's for fun shooting and tinkering.

proclone1
08-02-2011, 12:21 PM
Ruger SR9C if you plan to carry concealed. Has both the thumb safety on both sides and the trigger safety.

but definitely try one out if you can to see if you like the slide. it's the toughest I've ever had to manipulate, and I'm actually close to letting mine go if someone was interested.

doubleactiononly
08-02-2011, 2:21 PM
I would personally prefer NOT to have a thumb safety. If you took a professional 4 Day Defensive Handgun Course you would no longer feel you needed one.

+1

One thing I wish I had done when I first started buying guns was taken a professional handgun course instead of buying more guns. I have to say, the way I look at which handgun "features" are important changed completely. My ideal gun when I first started shooting would have been a 1911. My ideal gun today is a Glock or HK with LEM trigger. Who would've guessed.

Also, I would not cite what the military does as far as letting it influence a handgun decision. The people who make purchasing decisions for guns (or anything) in the military are the farthest away from the people who actually use them. And soldiers don't use handguns, they use rifles. I know lots of people who saw combat who were expert with a rifle but knew next to nothing about how to use a handgun.

agent.5
08-02-2011, 6:56 PM
There is also the very safe grip safety

HK P7M8

rgs1975
08-02-2011, 8:10 PM
Springfield EMP FTW. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

ZombieTactics
08-02-2011, 8:19 PM
...If you took a professional 4 Day Defensive Handgun Course you would no longer feel you needed one. That would be all the training you needed to build-up your confidence and skill level to the point you no longer need one. Please don't take that as an insult. ...

That's an interesting perspective, and it just goes to show you that perceptions differ even given similar experiences. My take would be that sufficient training/practice gets you to the point where you are fine with or without ... and choose what you like with total confidence.

This assumes weapons of generally decent design to begin with, of course!

PRCABR4Christ
08-02-2011, 8:44 PM
after taking defensive classes and armorers classes, I'll stick with my original answer, give me a 1911/BHP, I own tupperware, but it has no place on my hip anymore...I figure if you carry a gun and feel that a manual safety is too much work (sometimes I carry guns without safeties as well), how would you feel when some dirtbag takes your gun from you then shoots you and someone else with it? I would rather them try to fumble with a safety that I know how to work...it's all about training with the weapon you intend to carry, some people aren't comfortable with a gun with a manual safety, and thats understandable, but don't not choose a gun only because of a manual safety.

"As for me and my house, we choose the 1911" - Epistle of Reverend John Moses Browning 19:11 :rofl:

"if it's not made of high quality metal, single stack, or single action, it's not a 1911, and therefore not welcome on my hip" - Me :rofl:

ICHIYA TRAINING CONCEPTS
08-03-2011, 11:19 AM
9mm handgun with manuel safety.. None cross my mind that I'd want on my hip at anytime..

In the service I carried the 1911 and was forced to carry the m9 IMHO the m9 is a horrible weapon system..

Now that I have the choice to carry whatever I want, I carry a glock on me daily and for instructing classes. And on time off build n shoot 1911s

Itc
OTC

Untamed1972
08-03-2011, 12:32 PM
use 3gen S&W like 3913,6906,5906 all with mag safty,

CZ and HP is best new gun U can buy but S&W will cost less.


Very reliable guns. But when you do try and run one in tactical training or competition you will quickly see how important consistently training to operate the safety is. You gotta do it EXACTLY the same everytime, otherwise, that one time it's really gonna count you're gonna forget and you're gonna get dead.

tacticalcity
08-03-2011, 1:07 PM
+1

One thing I wish I had done when I first started buying guns was taken a professional handgun course instead of buying more guns. I have to say, the way I look at which handgun "features" are important changed completely. My ideal gun when I first started shooting would have been a 1911. My ideal gun today is a Glock or HK with LEM trigger. Who would've guessed.

Also, I would not cite what the military does as far as letting it influence a handgun decision. The people who make purchasing decisions for guns (or anything) in the military are the farthest away from the people who actually use them. And soldiers don't use handguns, they use rifles. I know lots of people who saw combat who were expert with a rifle but knew next to nothing about how to use a handgun.

Elite units like Delta Force (1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta) for example, master the handgun beyond anything you or I will ever come close to. If you read Inside Delta Force by Eric Haney (great book by the way) you will learn that they are all about the handgun, and that their training regimen makes the professional courses you and I love look like child's play. While at the same time those courses you and I love make the training the average soldier receives look criminally inadequate.

Granted there are elite units like the Special Forces (Green Berets) that pretty much phone in their handgun training by comparison, though they would be the last to realize it. I have seen these guys do amazing things with other weapon systems and then totally eff up the handgun portion of competition/training so often that it is the norm. Frankly, I found that shocking and very hard to accept. But when you see it over and over again, it is hard to dismiss. That is not to say there are not soldiers in the Special Forces that take the handgun seriously and spend additional time, money and effort to master it. But not all of them do. Certainly not to the same extreme Delta does.

So it depends on the details of that military history and which units favor them and which units do not.

I also realize that pencil pushers and bean counters often make decisions on which weapon systems to buy based upon liability and cost rather than effectiveness. The Beretta M9 is a perfect example of a gun that is an insurance adjusters wet dream, and a soldiers worst nightmare - though most of them have no idea it is so bad since they only professional training most soldiers have was on that handgun and in an environment that does not highlight its deficiencies. It is seriously overcomplicated and slow to fire right out of the holster with any accuracy thanks to a monstrously hard DA pull that cannot be bypassed thanks to the decocking safety. The bureaucrats love that it cuts down on NDs even amongst the untrained and unskilled. The elite soldiers that truly know what they are doing want something faster like a 1911 or Glock. They don't want to get killed because their equipment was designed to hold the hands of shooters less skilled than themselves.

That said liability was not always a primary motivating factor the military and police, especially in less litigious countries where getting sued was next to impossible. It is a relatively new phenominon, and it occured more in the US than abroad. It also is changing. Since 9/11 there has been an increase in the popularity of civilian shooting schools and shooting competitions. More and more people are getting realistitic training and as a result are leaning towards the need for combat effectiveness over the need for excessive liability protection.

I listed the rich military history behind those handguns for two reasons....

First, If I am going to buy a gun with a thumb safety it is going to be for collection purposes more than defensive purposes. When it comes to saving my life, I reach for a Glock. But since I am former military I like to collect guns with a rich military history. It's not just any handgun, it is a 1911 or Hi-Power or so on. The name of the gun itself has significance and demands admiration.

Second, it shows combat proven effectiveness. Especially if the experts agree it did a superb job in combat. Take the Hi-Power. Not only is it a favorite amongst most of the worlds armed forces, it is extremely popular with private security contractors - especially the old timers. Those guys can carry anything they want, and most the old guys still doing it after 20 years have gotten around to truly mastering the handgun. So they know what to look for. The fact that it can be carried cocked and locked and has a relatively light trigger means it is a very fast gun right out of the holster. So it not only makes for a great defensive handgun, it also makes a great collector gun for guys who like guns steeped in military history. Basically it is to the 9mm what the 1911 is to the 45acp. So when you talk about the Hi-Power in relation to its rich military history, that is a good thing.

While the Beretta M9 has a military history behind it, most defensive shooters who train at a professional level and seek training beyond what is offered by the military or their government agency are not big fans. While the guns I mentioned do have big fans in the defensive shooting world.

stacym
08-03-2011, 1:16 PM
IMHO, No "combat pistol" should ever have a manual safety on it. Your trigger finger and brain is your safety. If you are thinking about doing defensive pistol classes, even with a little bit of stress, your fine motor skills go out the window. The less manual safeties you have to deactivate the better chance you have of surviving a defensive situation. At our last tactical pistol class we had a student with a Beretta M9 with small hands. They couldn't deactivate the thumb safety without adjusting their grip and cost them precious seconds. Food for thought.

This is one thing that steered me away from the SR9. My hands aren't super small, but the SR9 safety is, and (due to its location) I had to alter my grip to release it. I recently shot a Springfield EMP, which is nice and compact, and has a safety I can reach without altering my grip.

zfields
08-03-2011, 1:24 PM
If your going to carry a manual saftey gun, make sure it has a safety that is located somewhere that is natural to disengage.

The CZ 75 SA (not the B) to ME has the perfect safety. Its right where I keep my thumb when shooting other pistols, and as soon as I get my grip, the safety comes off without even thinking about it.

The older hi-power, that I also owned, was a very clumsy safety. Without an aftermarket extended or ambi safety, I would never consider it a carry gun.

I owned a 92 vertec, also didnt like the safety. No idea what berreta was thinking with that one.

tacticalcity
08-03-2011, 1:36 PM
...as I look for a compact gun for ccw.

It's not that easy to find a good compact ccw gun. They either are all DA/SA, fire too small of a round, are too thick if they fire an acceptable round, have reported reliability issues if the seem otherwise perfect, and on and on.

One of the reasons I don't already have my California CCW is I cannot find a deap concealed carry gun that I am 100% pleased with. Since we have to list the gun on the permit here ao you have to have the guns first.

Caseless
08-04-2011, 1:42 PM
If your going to carry a manual saftey gun, make sure it has a safety that is located somewhere that is natural to disengage.

The CZ 75 SA (not the B) to ME has the perfect safety. Its right where I keep my thumb when shooting other pistols, and as soon as I get my grip, the safety comes off without even thinking about it.

The older hi-power, that I also owned, was a very clumsy safety. Without an aftermarket extended or ambi safety, I would never consider it a carry gun.

+2. CZ-75 SA safety works for people with medium/short fingers.
Browning Hi-Power...tiny safety lever + hammer bite = safe queen.

HK USP V1. Don't bother if you are used to shooting pistols thumbs forward style. Keep it decocked.

Saym14
08-04-2011, 1:47 PM
EAA Witness
HK USP9
HK P30S

I will only own semi auto pistols with a 1911 style thumb safety or no safety at all. I hate the 92f style of safety

c3jy
08-04-2011, 5:17 PM
+1

I dont see a purpose for a manual safety on a HD/CCW handgun (except for the 1911). Under stress, you probably forget to switch the safety off. just my 2 cents

I agree. Although my USPs have a safety, I never use them because I carry or store them with one in the chamber and hammer down. If I need to, the first pull of the trigger is double action, every one after is an easy single action. When Iím done, I simply use the control lever to decock, which brings me back to a hammer down double action pull again. My finger is the safety; the gun canít go off with the hammer down and my finger not on the trigger.