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View Full Version : My son and FFL dealer were going at it...


Damiiaaannn
07-30-2011, 9:15 PM
So today I was at a gun store with my 15 year old son, and he asked the dealer if they can get in the Franklin Armory XO-26, and the dealer said, "No." My son asked, "why not", and he said, "he doesn't want to deal with single shot pistols, since the DOJ didn't approve it." My son was saying it is fine for you to sell the XO-26 since it comes from Franklin Armory with a bullet button and 0 round sled already. Then the dealer said "yes, I know, but you can't convert it over to semi-auto." My son was like "yes you can, you are not converting it to an illegal assault weapon." The dealer then said, "its illegal because it can accept a detachable magazine", but my son said "no it cant, because it cannot be done by ones manipulation of the body only by a tool which means it's not detachable." The dealer kept going on and on, so we just decided to leave. I'm glad my 15 year old sons more than the dealer.

thenodnarb
07-30-2011, 9:35 PM
so... who was the dealer?

Damiiaaannn
07-30-2011, 9:36 PM
The Range in Fresno.

thenodnarb
07-30-2011, 9:49 PM
you taught him well. be proud!

Moto4Fun
07-30-2011, 9:53 PM
Wow. That's a shocker to me. They have always had tons of AR stuff, I figured they were knowledgable on the laws and exemptions or acceptable configurations.

cprieto
07-30-2011, 10:00 PM
I've noticed some FFLs who deal with AR stuff still have issues with "single shot" excemption. I do realize part of it is that they have been conditioned over a long period of time in Kalifornia by our government and err on the side of safe... to a fault...

NapaCountyShooter
07-30-2011, 10:17 PM
You should be proud. That's a CGN'er in the making.

unusedusername
07-30-2011, 10:39 PM
If you are in Fresno head over to PRK... you'll have better luck with them. Heck, I drove there a few times from the SF area just to pick up a few things....

Damiiaaannn
07-30-2011, 10:42 PM
If you are in Fresno head over to PRK... you'll have better luck with them. Heck, I drove there a few times from the SF area just to pick up a few things....

I've bought 2 guns already from PRK, but I thought I could give another place a try since it already comes single shot exempt from Franklin Armory.

Alarm Guy
07-30-2011, 11:10 PM
Wow. That's a shocker to me. They have always had tons of AR stuff, I figured they were knowledgable on the laws and exemptions or acceptable configurations.

They are still telling people it is illegal to remove the magazine from a BB equipped rifle.

brianm767
07-30-2011, 11:14 PM
They also told me if I ever got caught with my semi auto LCP, which was purchased originally as a single shot, I would be arrested.

mallardman13
07-30-2011, 11:51 PM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?

Damiiaaannn
07-31-2011, 12:03 AM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?

Because my son was right.

Blackhawk556
07-31-2011, 12:09 AM
The Range in Fresno.
lol, that over priced place.

the only good thing about them is the indoor range. If they don't give you a discount on a gun, don't even think about buying from that place.

When I was first getting into guns, a friend and I walked into that place and received the worst service ever.

Blackhawk556
07-31-2011, 12:11 AM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?
because the 15 year old knows more than the adult:D


@@@@@BRIANM767
"They also told me if I ever got caught with my semi auto LCP, which was purchased originally as a single shot, I would be arrested"

If a cop runs the serial number on a "single shot" off roster gun, will it show up it was DROSed as a single shot and not has semi-auto?

Anchors
07-31-2011, 2:27 AM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?

Because you don't magically get a voice and an opinion when you turn 18 :rolleyes:

People teaching there kids to shut up and listen to whatever adults/authority figures say is one of the reasons we have so many people willing to jump on board with ridiculous things like...gun control for one example?

You can be respectful and still debate/disagree. There is a difference.

OP: I think you taught your son well and I would rather he be running the gun shop than the guy you were dealing with.

Maddog5150
07-31-2011, 4:06 AM
Hmmm. I'm an adult and I dont argue with how people want to do thier business. They dont want to deal with single shots, thats thier issue. Plenty of very pro fun and EBR shops dont do single shots and are not comfortable with it.

Darklyte27
07-31-2011, 7:21 AM
did you teach your kid or did he learn about it on his own? good for him.

Sam
07-31-2011, 7:50 AM
Hmmm. I'm an adult and I dont argue with how people want to do thier business. They dont want to deal with single shots, thats thier issue. Plenty of very pro fun and EBR shops dont do single shots and are not comfortable with it.

You're talking about not arguing with business people about how they run their business. The kid was arguing about the law. Two very different things. Op, your kid did well!

kemasa
07-31-2011, 8:58 AM
I would not say that it was an argument, but that he was trying to educate them. Big difference, but once you figure out that they don't get it, it is time to stop and walk away.

There are many issues to consider, so don't blame a place if they have not done all the research to ensure that they are not breaking the law. Also, some might be willing to do something which others are not comfortable with, such as a single shot with a barrel that can't really be used and no magazine instead of a block which is locked in (tool required). Remember who is taking the real risk and even if the FFL does everything right, the customer could claim that the firearm was sold in an illegal configuration to try to protect themself and that can cause problems for the FFL, even if nothing ends up really happening. Do you really want to have to explain everything to the CA DOJ inspector?

If a FFL sells an AR type firearm with a BB and the customer takes it off, gets caught and claims that is how they bought it, do you really think that no one will contact the FFL?

MrExel17
07-31-2011, 9:01 AM
You should be proud. That's a CGN'er in the making.

:iagree::iagree: Good job Dad!

AvyDriver
07-31-2011, 9:05 AM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?

Debating or arguing? Totally different. The boy was right and good for him. Sounded like he was being professional and mature about it too. Good for him. Arguing is when your refusing to listen to reason, you know like the adult was doing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CK_32
07-31-2011, 10:11 AM
That sounds about right.... Dealer spreading FUD. things havnt changed since I stopped going to my local shops good to know :D

JagerTroop
07-31-2011, 10:46 AM
I've bought 2 guns already from PRK, but I thought I could give another place a try since it already comes single shot exempt from Franklin Armory.

Whether it comes single shot from the manufacturer or from the dealer doesn't matter. Why waste time and money on overpriced, FUD shops? The Range sat back and waited for it to be "safe" to sell black rifles/pistols. All the while, shops like PRK were blazing the trail. To me, that is deserving of my business. That, and the fact that PRK is cheaper too ;)

jeep7081
07-31-2011, 10:49 AM
Because my son was right.

Good job dad. Raised him good.

CK_32
07-31-2011, 11:21 AM
Because you don't magically get a voice and an opinion when you turn 18 :rolleyes:

People teaching there kids to shut up and listen to whatever adults/authority figures say is one of the reasons we have so many people willing to jump on board with ridiculous things like...gun control for one example?

You can be respectful and still debate/disagree. There is a difference.

OP: I think you taught your son well and I would rather he be running the gun shop than the guy you were dealing with.

+10... I work for the navy and watch this all the time. Because the chief says let's do it this way and has no f*cking idea what he's doing his boys have to listen and I've seen a few people get hurt by having to listen and shut up. And sometimes it's just stupid but because he's a chief it's getting done that way. The way humans run and think amazes me and makes me wonder how we made it this far with some of the people in this world.

IrishPirate
07-31-2011, 11:41 AM
Why is a 15 year old arguing with a adult?

because men are made when boys stand their ground on what is right even in the face of (assumed) authority. Age has nothing to do with it, it's a matter of maturity. I know plenty of people that are 30+ who are nothing but big children because they are completely immature and ignorant about what it takes to be an adult. I've also known people who were better able to take care of themselves at 14 than those 30+ year old people. Respecting elders is one thing, but when they are wrong and their ignorance impeads you in some way, there's nothing wrong with challenging them and standing your ground no matter what your age. I'd be proud as hell if my kid stood up to some idiot gun store clerk. I'd buy him a gun that very day and welcome him to being a man.

monk
07-31-2011, 11:43 AM
Debating or arguing? Totally different. The boy was right and good for him. Sounded like he was being professional and mature about it too. Good for him. Arguing is when your refusing to listen to reason, you know like the adult was doing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You argue in a debate, but this wasn't a debate as it wasn't a formal event.

Arguing:
1. Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.
2. Persuade someone to do or not to do (something) by giving reasons: "I tried to argue him out of it".

Debate:
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.

Anchors
07-31-2011, 3:15 PM
+10... I work for the navy and watch this all the time. Because the chief says let's do it this way and has no f*cking idea what he's doing his boys have to listen and I've seen a few people get hurt by having to listen and shut up. And sometimes it's just stupid but because he's a chief it's getting done that way. The way humans run and think amazes me and makes me wonder how we made it this far with some of the people in this world.

That sucks man. I understand the need for rank structure in the military, but it is a bummer than there is no recourse for an NCO/Officer who doesn't know his crap sending some kid to do something the wrong way.

If I know something is wrong, I'm not doing it.

ir0nclash86
07-31-2011, 3:29 PM
They also told me if I ever got caught with my semi auto LCP, which was purchased originally as a single shot, I would be arrested.

Yep I heard the same thing except from a Turners employee in Redondo Beach. He said if you're caught with any off roster handgun it's going to cost you $50k in court fees after you get arrested. Lol he said he knows what he's talking about cause he works in a gun shop lol.

JagerDog
07-31-2011, 4:08 PM
While I wholly support a business being able to choose what practice they engage in/avoid...doing so with legal arguments which just aren't so (FUD), would make me go elsewhere for all purchases.

As related, the clerk got owned in respectable fashion.

LBDamned
07-31-2011, 6:27 PM
I would not say that it was an argument, but that he was trying to educate them. Big difference, but once you figure out that they don't get it, it is time to stop and walk away.



This is the answer that suites me best... I dont have the time, tolerance, patience or desire to stand in a store and go in circles with someone that is clueless... and it wouldn't be any different if it were my kid doing the talking.

I've left a couple gun shops knowing the guy behind the counter is an idiot... contrary to popular opinion on CGN, its not my job or desire to "teach" them...

I try to frequent the places that have helpful people that know wtf they are talking about.

G60
07-31-2011, 7:22 PM
Wow. That's a shocker to me. They have always had tons of AR stuff, I figured they were knowledgable on the laws and exemptions or acceptable configurations.

Always? You mean ever since PRK set up shop and all of a sudden places like The Range and herb Bauer grew the balls to stock OLL stuff after not even touching them for years?

Gotta give credit to Breco, too, but half these places in town wouldn't even let you say the word 'AR' before PRK opened.