Sound suppressors?

[Aluisious]

I know in some states in the country, you can buy automatic weapons and all kinds of other goodies provided you go through a long process. At least it's possible.

What about sound suppressors? I think I've heard that there are ways to get those things, in other states I assume. This is obviously pure brain candy for Californians, but how do people in those states get them?

I was daydreaming of the "perfect" home defense weapon yesterday, and concluded that a suppressor would do wonders for flash/deafening blast issues with a 16 inch AR. Add an EOTech sight, a forward grip, a flashlight, a 30 round mag, and a collapsable stock and you have a pretty perfect weapon.

[NSR500]

In TX for example... I go an get my CLEO to sign off on the appropriate papers, do the pictures and fingerprints then send it off to the .gov with my money for the Tax stamp.

[xenophobe]

You would have to be a 01 Dealer or 07 Manufacturer w/SOT to have suppressors in California, or work for a government agency that allows you to have one.

[Forestboy]

Since your(we're) dreaming why the 16" barrel. Get a 10.5" Short Barreled Rifle to go with the Supressor. Two Tax Stamps. One sweet gun.

[Aluisious]

I don't know, much under 16 inches the ballistic performance of .223 turns miserable.

[pewpewguns]

For those 300 yd indoor home defense shots?

[kilword]

supressors for 22lr should be legal :( be great for hunting
their shouldnt be any guildlines for rimfire
hell some pellet guns match 22lr fps
no mag bans no nothing (well they shouldnt have bans on anything but within the guidlines we have) if you can have all the AW features on a rimfire you should be able to have hicap mags too.
never hear"shoot out with 22lr assault weapons"

[rorschach]

I was daydreaming of the "perfect" home defense weapon yesterday,

Where I live, thats called "Eight Seventy"

I think its pretty amazing that a manufactured suppressor, with 20-30 bucks worth of material, no extensive machining operations, and some simple cutting and welding sells for 500-600 bucks. Then another 200 bucks for the tax stamp.

I gripe now, but if I lived in Free America, I would prolly go for one.

[Aluisious]

For those 300 yd indoor home defense shots?
No, for those 5 yard shots where you'd like the bullet to fragment as designed, instead of making a little hole that will kill your intruder approximately half an hour after he's arrived in the emergency room after calling 911 on the cell phone he found on your dead body.

[Aluisious]

Where I live, thats called "Eight Seventy"

I think its pretty amazing that a manufactured suppressor, with 20-30 bucks worth of material, no extensive machining operations, and some simple cutting and welding sells for 500-600 bucks. Then another 200 bucks for the tax stamp.

I gripe now, but if I lived in Free America, I would prolly go for one.
I gots me the Eight Seventy, but TBH 30 rounds of suppressed semi auto .223 makes me feel better than 6 rounds of blowing my eardrums out if I manage to rack the slide correctly.

"Hostage shots" with buckshot are a bit depressing.

The SureFire can looks spiffy, wish I could shell out 800 bucks for it.

[whomper]

I know in some states in the country, you can buy automatic weapons and all kinds of other goodies provided you go through a long process. At least it's possible.

What about sound suppressors? I think I've heard that there are ways to get those things, in other states I assume. This is obviously pure brain candy for Californians, but how do people in those states get them?

I was daydreaming of the "perfect" home defense weapon yesterday, and concluded that a suppressor would do wonders for flash/deafening blast issues with a 16 inch AR. Add an EOTech sight, a forward grip, a flashlight, a 30 round mag, and a collapsable stock and you have a pretty perfect weapon.


Machineguns, silencers, short-barreled shotguns (SBS) & short-barreled rifles (SBR) are all regulated under the Nat'l Firearms Act of 1934. They are sometimes called NFA items or Title II guns. The BATFE allows individuals to own these items. (MG's have to be made before 1986-FOPA- Firearm Owners Protection Act,Thanks NRA, banned civilians owning MG's manufactured before May 1986)
Normally you have to get a form and have it signed by the chief law enforcment officer in your area. Some will refuse ("I don't sign for ____.") Then you can't transfer the NFA item.
HOWEVER, BATFE allows Corporations, LLC's, and Trusts to own NFA items. You can set up a Trust using Quicken Willmaker. I've been thinking about setting up a trust with a family member back in TX to get a suppressed M11/9 or other MAC type MG. Provided, of course, I can verify its legal. Which I'm pretty sure it is as long as I do not bring it to Cali.
If you go with a trust/LLC/Corp. then there are no fingerprints or CLEO signoff. Not only that but the actual time for BATFE approval is reduced.

THE NFA Boards:
http://www.sturmgewehr.com
http://www.subguns.com

http://www.titleii.com/ - All the BATFE forms you could ever need. And a good site for NFA laws.

ETA: Silencers are banned in CA. CADOJ does issue, to elite Hollywood types, MG/SBR/SBS permits. I believe ther are 3 SBS permits in the entire state.

[6172crew]

I don't know, much under 16 inches the ballistic performance of .223 turns miserable.
You should tell that to all the guys who run the M4A3.:rolleyes:

[Aluisious]

You should tell that to all the guys who run the M4A3.:rolleyes:
A lot of whom complain of miserable terminal ballistics?

[6172crew]

A lot of whom complain of miserable terminal ballistics?

Ive never heard of one of them complain, how many Marines or other service members that clear homes do you know?:confused:

[Fjold]

I don't know, much under 16 inches the ballistic performance of .223 turns miserable.


In your house? Do you have a 300 yard hallway?

[tgriffin]

Where I live, thats called "Eight Seventy"

I think its pretty amazing that a manufactured suppressor, with 20-30 bucks worth of material, no extensive machining operations, and some simple cutting and welding sells for 500-600 bucks. Then another 200 bucks for the tax stamp.

I gripe now, but if I lived in Free America, I would prolly go for one.


While I agree with you that the mark-up seems outrageous, I can only imagine what their license, liability insurance, and lawyer on retainer cost them per year, not to mention production costs/overhead. An ever shrinking customer base thanks to the political climate must make cost of doing business expensive. Im sure if widespread ownership of suppressors were legal, it would drive the price down.

[Aluisious]

In your house? Do you have a 300 yard hallway?
Yes.

:p

edit

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#fragrange

I was thinking about this kind of table when I figured a 16 inch barrel was better than a 10 inch.

I guess at very short range it doesn't make much of a diff, but I'd still feel better.

[Forestboy]

With 30 rounds at your disposal why only shoot once? Keep shooting until there is no longer a threat. Then do CPR on the dead body till your 911 call is answered......

[whomper]

I just found a thread on AR15.com that lists numbers of registered NFA items state by state.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=535683

California

MG: 20,637
Suppressor: 3,630
SBR: 1,537
SBS: 7,364
AOW: 3,493

[bu-bye]

My dream home gun would be a full auto 10.5 inch AR in 45ACP with suppressor. Why 45? Because without a sub sonic round that suppressor isn't going to do jack. Even the best Can in the world will still makes a 223 sound like a 22LR without a can. A 22lr blast in a hallway will blowout your ears just as easily as a 223.

I don't care who you are, a 30rd mag dump of 45 in your chest will kill you before you hit the ground. The round is very controllable, cheap and comes in many two legged stopping flavors:D

[ETD1010]

My dream home gun would be a full auto 10.5 inch AR in 45ACP with suppressor. Why 45? Because without a sub sonic round that suppressor isn't going to do jack. Even the best Can in the world will still makes a 223 sound like a 22LR without a can. A 22lr blast in a hallway will blowout your ears just as easily as a 223.

I don't care who you are, a 30rd mag dump of 45 in your chest will kill you before you hit the ground. The round is very controllable, cheap and comes in many two legged stopping flavors:D


Although, then you'd run into an "excessive force" prosecution for shooting the guy 28 times more than you needed to. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. . . but the law does :rolleyes:

A lot of whom complain of miserable terminal ballistics?

In close quartered combat, that 10.5" upper with have plenty of velocity to do the job. . . And trying to navigate indoors witha 16" is awkward. . .

[whomper]

You could always apply for a Dangerous Weapons Permit. Probably be a cold day in Hell if they issue one.

[MrLogan]

I just found a thread on AR15.com that lists numbers of registered NFA items state by state.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=535683

California

MG: 20,637
Suppressor: 3,630
SBR: 1,537
SBS: 7,364
AOW: 3,493

I wonder who the hell owns those items? :confused: I want!

[NwG]

Where I live, thats called "Eight Seventy"

I think its pretty amazing that a manufactured suppressor, with 20-30 bucks worth of material, no extensive machining operations, and some simple cutting and welding sells for 500-600 bucks. Then another 200 bucks for the tax stamp.

I gripe now, but if I lived in Free America, I would prolly go for one.

While some are made rather inexpensive the top of the line suppressors are worth every penny..

Many are made of Ti, high grade stainless, and other exotic metals. The machining to close tolarances of said high grade metals is not easy or cheap. I have seen some that have as many as 175 INTERNAL tig welds! Again not an easy thing to do..

While a basic suppressor can be made of under $100, some are well worth the $1-2,000 price tags. IMO

[whomper]

I wonder who the hell owns those items? :confused: I want!

I guess some are Law Enforcement, some are movie house prop guns, and a few are owned by elites who grease some wheels.

[m1371]

I think its pretty amazing that a manufactured suppressor, with 20-30 bucks worth of material, no extensive machining operations, and some simple cutting and welding sells for 500-600 bucks. Then another 200 bucks for the tax stamp.

The SureFire and GemTech cans are worth every penny.

I've seen a SF can mounted on an M4 get a dozen mags dumped through it at the cyclic rate without failing. Their cans for the M249 & M240 guns are supposed to be even tougher.

[bu-bye]

Although, then you'd run into an "excessive force" prosecution for shooting the guy 28 times more than you needed to. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you. . . but the law does



In close quartered combat, that 10.5" upper with have plenty of velocity to do the job. . . And trying to navigate indoors witha 16" is awkward. . .

Yup, you are 100% right by its my damn dream:mad: ;) :p

Yeah its not very PC but It sure would put a smile on my face:D

[Aluisious]

My dream home gun would be a full auto 10.5 inch AR in 45ACP with suppressor. Why 45? Because without a sub sonic round that suppressor isn't going to do jack. Even the best Can in the world will still makes a 223 sound like a 22LR without a can. A 22lr blast in a hallway will blowout your ears just as easily as a 223.

I don't care who you are, a 30rd mag dump of 45 in your chest will kill you before you hit the ground. The round is very controllable, cheap and comes in many two legged stopping flavors:D
If I stick you in a hallway and hold up two rifles, one a 22 LR and one a 223 Rem, and ask you which one you want me to shoot while you're in there without hearing protection, which one are you going to pick?

Suppressed 223 would still be loud but it's a LOT better than normal. One thousand times better, to quantify it.

I'd rather save my ears that 99.9% of sound energy, but keep the .223 ballistics and easy weapon configuration.

[Paul]

Suppressed 223 would still be loud but it's a LOT better than normal. One thousand times better, to quantify it.

-30 dB is a bunch of suppression.

I've fired a suppressed WWII Sten gun and the only thing you could hear was the bolt slamming shut and the rounds bouncing of the BMP sitting 100 yards distant. It was amazing the quality of suppressor technology back in the 1940's.

The super-sonic crack of the .223 is always going to be super loud - I don't know if suppressed by 30 dB (1000 times) is correct. The crack is always very loud. I've fired a .22 LR with every other round sub- and super-sonic and there's a big difference. You'd be able to hear the sonic crack of that .22 LR hundreds of yards away likely.

[bu-bye]

Its the sonic crack that will make a canned 223 sounds just as loud as an un-canned 22lr. Unless you drop below the 1100+-FPS speed you are going to get that loud crack and that crack hurts too. I have shot both rounds with suppressors and while it helps with a 223 it still hurts your ears.

If I was in a hallway and given the option between the two (223=canned, 22lr=not canned). I would not care which because they will both be just as loud.

[paradox]

The perfect home defense system is a double barreled, pump-action shotgun.

I sense a new Cali-inspired gun. Slap it in a bulpup stock with detachable 10 round mag. That could throw a lot of lead in a short period of time.

[Harbinger]

While we're dreaming... I'd SBS every shotgun I could get my hands on.

Why? Cuz it's cool.

:D

Mike