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Norrick
07-30-2011, 1:49 AM
I'm a new member here. I usually hang around thefiringline and thehighroad (occasionally rimfirecentral). Same username on all forums.


Anyway my situation is this:

I went through Valkyrie Arms to get a FNX-9 (off roster handgun with the single shot conversion bla bla bla).

I'm just not feeling anything for this pistol after a couple of months of using it. I lusted over it for a year wishing it would make its way to California's roster, and jumped on it when I learned about VA (probably a not so wise decision for a few reasons).

Anyway the short story is, I'd like to sell it and replace it with something else. I was reading the sticky on the exemption info and all I could find was this:

Q: If I decide to sell this gun later, what happens?
A: You can sell it the same way as any other off-roster gun in CA.


Pertaining to this quote, what is the regular way of selling any off-roster handgun in California? I've only ever sold two pistols, both were ON the roster. One was sold to a dealer (ouch) and the other to a forum member out of state. I would (if possible prefer to do a private party transfer just so I don't lose so much money on it). I'm guessing I can go send it out of state nearly completley hassle free, but at significant loss (considering California's inflated prices). Is it possible to sell to another person in California?

I think I read something a long time ago in some obscure thread about how LEO's can buy off roster guns and then sell them to anyone they wish. Is this because they're LEO, or is it because the restriction is only on the initial sale and what they do with it after is irrelevant?? (This could be totally bogus, please inform me if so).

Also in regards to the magazines, are they to be returned to parts kits fashion for the transfer?

Twofer
07-30-2011, 3:00 AM
Within CA, you can sell it via Private Party Transfer. Normal PPT rules apply, so no need to find a LEO or anything like that. Not sure how selling it to a dealer or cosigning the gun would go.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/The_Safe_Handgun_List#Other_exempt_transactions_an d_conditions

2) Buys a handgun from another CA resident (ANY other CA resident, including LEO) at a CA FFL -- this is a CA 'private party transfer'; Roster does not apply.

jeffrice6
07-30-2011, 3:01 AM
You must sell Face To Face ~ FTF. Both you and the buyer in person at the shop. Mags should be disassembled and given as parts kits. Done & done, that easy!

Twofer
07-30-2011, 3:06 AM
You must sell Face To Face ~ FTF. Both you and the buyer in person at the shop. Mags should be disassembled and given as parts kits. Done & done, that easy!

Mags should be sold as parts kits if their capacity is greater than 10 rounds.

redcliff
07-30-2011, 6:45 AM
Lets clarify some of the above posts. Generally speaking you can do the following:

You can sell it via PPT with magazines disassembled as rebuild kits if not blocked to 10 rounds (since you just got it thats all you should have anyway?). You should have at least one 10 round magazine so the buyer can do the safe handgun handling demonstration.

You can sell it on consignment at your local FFL. Consignments are a form of PPT where you don't actually meet face to face. Consignment guns aren't part of a dealer's inventory.

You can sell it to your local FFL or trade it in on a firearm he has. However he'll have to sell it to a roster exempt person or sell it out of state because it will become part of his invenory and he's required to comply with the roster on resales. Edit: your dealer can also convert it to single shot for the exemption if he's willing.

You can sell it via an auction site to an out of state buyer or roster exempt entity. It must be received by an FFl who will transfer it properly to the new owner.

cprieto
07-30-2011, 8:36 AM
Redcliff is absolutely right, I've been doing a few off rosters this year and PPT face to face or consignment is the way to go. I have had to buy a few 10 round mags in order to do the safe handling demo as well... Good luck.

Norrick
08-01-2011, 9:35 PM
Redcliff, I received them as parts kits so I guess I will have to disassemble them. However, FN Herstal does not have 10 round magazines for this pistol, so is it absolutely necessary to somehow block them to hold 10 for the sake of the safety demonstration

Perhaps if I use a normal magazine for the demonstration, but don't actually include it in the sale (not to be simply disassembled and added as a parts kit after)?

Flintlock Tom
08-02-2011, 6:38 AM
Redcliff, I received them as parts kits so I guess I will have to disassemble them. However, FN Herstal does not have 10 round magazines for this pistol, so is it absolutely necessary to somehow block them to hold 10 for the sake of the safety demonstration

Perhaps if I use a normal magazine for the demonstration, but don't actually include it in the sale (not to be simply disassembled and added as a parts kit after)?

Uh, oh!
You're not permitted to have working magazines which hold more than 10 rounds unless you had them prior to the year 2000. They must ALWAYS be disassembled while in California, or modified so that they can only hold 10 or fewer rounds.
If by "normal" you mean that it will hold greater than 10 rounds, NO, you may not use it for the safe handling demonstration. In fact you may not even have it assembled and working.

Norrick
08-03-2011, 3:10 AM
I don't believe possession is illegal, simply manufacture, sale, and importation.

One could argue that the law was written to prevent having them but I have yet to see a statue that says possession.

-madmax-
08-03-2011, 3:36 AM
@norrick,

Well, the moment you assemble you part kit you actually "manufacture" a mag. At least that's my opinion..

macey109
08-03-2011, 3:38 AM
I lusted over it for a year wishing it would make its way to California's roster, and jumped on it when I learned about VA (probably a not so wise decision for a few reasons).



why? Please explain.

Norrick
08-03-2011, 4:47 PM
macey109:

Basically it was very poor customer service. I wouldn't say they treated me poorly, but they severely botched the handgun when they single shot converted it (did not discover till I got home because the magazines are in pieces when you buy it). Took it back in and they held onto it for a couple weeks to try and fix it and contact the manufacturer. I had to wait over a month to get a replacement handgun and the whole time I was calling in to check the status updates, and every time I called it was like I had to explain my situation for the very first time again and again (every call after the previous, the series of events became more complicated as they gave me new answers that I would have to re-explain to them what they told me because they didn't remember/write it down/ tell other people). There didn't seem to be any communication between workers, and there didn't seem to be any head honcho in charge that could see to it personally. At one point I had to get a little hand written note on a post it saying "if can't contact manufacturer by tomorrow, will order new gun". I took the note with the guys name but I don't know how that would have REALLY helped me if they didn't recall or claimed otherwise.

In the end I got a new gun, and after the conversion and gunsmithing it all worked fine, but it was a process that I will never repeat. I don't even think getting an off-roster handgun is worth the risk of having to deal with their problem solving skills.

The guys working behind the counter WERE courteous to me, it just lacked any professionalism in my opinion. The woman on the phone was not the nicest but I am pretty sure she has a lot on her plate.

The unwise decision really had nothing to do with the specific handgun model. Its a great gun, I just don't feel any "chemistry" with it. Try before you buy!

macey109
08-04-2011, 3:22 AM
thanks for the additional input and color- insightful.

macey109
08-04-2011, 3:24 AM
I bought a colt 9mm defender with a single shot from an FFL in OC...I had some similar concerns but worked out great.

bwiese
08-04-2011, 9:46 AM
Within CA, off-roster handguns can be sold to LEOs, via face to face private party transfer to another Californian,
or via consignment sale. The Roster really only gates the sale of "inventoried" handguns at an FFL (in the other
PPT/consignment cases, the FFL can really be thought of as an intermediary).

If you have over 10rd magazines, you shouldn't. You should have parts or blocked magazines.

I'm very very very highly confident no illegal over 10rd magazines were sold to you with the gun.



I don't believe possession is illegal, simply manufacture, sale, and importation.

One could argue that the law was written to prevent having them but I have yet to see a statue that says possession.

Please don't overextend yourself. Possession is not illegal if you legally had it (pre-2000 etc).

But it's hard to possess such an item post-2000 without some banned activity in its path to you.
At best - even were you to avoiding criminal liability - it's still contraband.

If you have over-10rd mags for this gun they should be either blocked to 10rds (permanently) or disassembled. The buyer of
the gun will likely need to do a safety demonstration test, which will likely require use of a (legal) magazine.