OLL as a truck gun for 2007?

[caduckgunner]

Now that 2007 is here, what are your opinions on keeping a MM gripped SB23 campliant OLL ar as a truck gun? I am thinking of consolidating ammo, and selling my Yugo 59/66's and just throwing a OLL rifle in my truck. Safe to do so, or should I hold on?

[tenpercentfirearms]

I would probably stick with the SKS just because it is cheaper and I wouldn't mind it getting beat around or stolen. Legallity wise, we know it is legal, but do the officers in your area know it is legal? Here in Kern County I am not that worried about it.

[bwiese]

Now that 2007 is here, what are your opinions on keeping a MM gripped SB23 campliant OLL ar as a truck gun? I am thinking of consolidating ammo, and selling my Yugo 59/66's and just throwing a OLL rifle in my truck. Safe to do so, or should I hold on?

It's legally safe to do. HOWEVER there could be harassment problems due to many cops not being clued into Harrott, OLLs, etc.

Go shoot your OLL at the range but don't have it as a 'daily driver' truck gun.

And why sell the Yugo?

[Stanze]

A Kel-Tec SU-16CA would be a nice vehicle gun.

[JALLEN]

A Kel-Tec SU-16CA would be a nice vehicle gun.

If all firearms must be unloaded in a vehicle, legally, and should be out of "plain sight" (practically), what is the point of a truck gun? By the time you get it out of the trunk, or case, or case in the trunk, and get loaded up, whatever the problem is has already happened or is not going to most of thetime, right?

[edwardm]

Who said it would be in the trunk? Behind the seat, with a stripper clip or 5 sitting in the center console. Pretty quick to grab-n-load in that situation.

If all firearms must be unloaded in a vehicle, legally, and should be out of "plain sight" (practically), what is the point of a truck gun? By the time you get it out of the trunk, or case, or case in the trunk, and get loaded up, whatever the problem is has already happened or is not going to most of thetime, right?

[Cpl_Peters]

A Kel-Tec SU-16CA would be a nice vehicle gun.

yes it would! and i know of someone who is selling one :D

[anotherone]

Truck/Car guns should be mega cheap guns you don't mind beating the crap out of or having stolen. I use a 1980s remington 870 with the stock sawed-off. Total cost of my protection $50.

[M. Sage]

If all firearms must be unloaded in a vehicle, legally, and should be out of "plain sight" (practically), what is the point of a truck gun? By the time you get it out of the trunk, or case, or case in the trunk, and get loaded up, whatever the problem is has already happened or is not going to most of thetime, right?

SU16s fold. You can fit 'em in a large-ish backpack. Tuck it behind a seat, mag in the glove box, you're good to go.

[383green]

So, aside from harassment issues or liberal passers-by having bladder control issues, would be it legal to have an unloaded carbine or riot shotgun in the cab in a locking cop-car-style rack, with ammo in the center console?

If so, would it become illegal if it had a towel thrown over it because it would no longer be in plain sight (even though it'd be pretty easy to guess what that bulge under the towel is)?


I apologize if these are dumb questions. I've always transported all of my guns in locked containers in a locked cargo compartment, and haven't recently looked at the specific minimal requirements for transport. I think that most of my remaining brain cells are occupied with the convoluted OLL rules and quotes from South Park. :D

[DrjonesUSA]

Now that 2007 is here, what are your opinions on keeping a MM gripped SB23 campliant OLL ar as a truck gun? I am thinking of consolidating ammo, and selling my Yugo 59/66's and just throwing a OLL rifle in my truck. Safe to do so, or should I hold on?



No offense, but that is a spectacularly bad idea.

As stated above, while OLLs are of course perfectly legal, there are tons of cops out there who are not aware of the OLL situation and I could definitely see you causing yourself a LOT of headaches because of your "illegal AR-15 assault weapon" that you're lugging around in your truck.

Legal issues aside, why would you want a gun with a 10-round fixed mag that you have to break open to reload??

That's just nuts!

[SemiAutoSam]

In the past I have had an AR15 hanging on the back of the truck seat on hooks in a M60 Barrel bag would that be legal in California state ?

[anonymous]

Truck/Car guns should be mega cheap guns you don't mind beating the crap out of or having stolen. I use a 1980s remington 870 with the stock sawed-off. Total cost of my protection $50.

Personally, I think you should take offense to any gun being stolen from you. Unless of course you would like to provide guns to criminals....

[383green]

Personally, I think you should take offense to any gun being stolen from you. Unless of course you would like to provide guns to criminals....

A gun owner should take reasonably precautions to keep their gun(s) out of the hands of folks who are not responsible enough to handle them safely (including criminals, unsupervised children, curious chimpanzees who escaped from the local zoo, etc.). However, I don't think it's necessarily irresponsible to note that objects in a vehicle cannot be secured as well as if they were at home in a nice heavy safe bolted to the ground, and thus are more likely to get stolen. Also, that an object that's carried around in a vehicle will probably see more abuse than one in a carpet-lined safe. Both of these argue in favor of carrying the $150 Mossberg in the car, and leaving the $1,500 Red Label at home.

I'd certainly take offense if somebody stole something from my truck, especially if it was then used to harm somebody who wasn't asking for it. But still, I see some merit in the advise to choose one of the less precious guns in the collection for truck duty.

[azn_wrx]

No offense, but that is a spectacularly bad idea.

As stated above, while OLLs are of course perfectly legal, there are tons of cops out there who are not aware of the OLL situation and I could definitely see you causing yourself a LOT of headaches because of your "illegal AR-15 assault weapon" that you're lugging around in your truck.

Legal issues aside, why would you want a gun with a 10-round fixed mag that you have to break open to reload??

That's just nuts!

I dont think you read inbetween the lines. He said he would have a MM aka MonsterMan which is not a pistol grip. Therefore he can use detachable magazines.

[sdirielion]

sorry for the ignorent question, if I keep a shotgun under my backseat (all the time), where is the closest place I can keep the shells???

It doesn't need to have a lock on it does it???

[anonymous]

sorry for the ignorent question, if I keep a shotgun under my backseat (all the time), where is the closest place I can keep the shells???

It doesn't need to have a lock on it does it???

Man, the gun must always be in a locked container in California. The trunk counts as a locked container but the glove compartment does not. Besides, if you open your glove compartment to get your registration papers during a traffic stop, the cops are going to pump you full of lead.

As far as the closest place you can keep the shells, I don't think there is any provision dictating that. You can't have the gun loaded, and many people believe a loaded magazine constitutes a loaded gun, but I believe you could have the shells next to the rifle.

[SemiAutoSam]

You are talking about two things here only handguns and so called assault weapons need to be in locked containers. You do not have to lock up a rifle or shotgun according to law. and no a loaded magazine does not constitute a loaded gun unless the magazine is in the MAG WELL.



Man, the gun must always be in a locked container in California. The trunk counts as a locked container but the glove compartment does not. Besides, if you open your glove compartment to get your registration papers during a traffic stop, the cops are going to pump you full of lead.

As far as the closest place you can keep the shells, I don't think there is any provision dictating that. You can't have the gun loaded, and many people believe a loaded magazine constitutes a loaded gun, but I believe you could have the shells next to the rifle.

[C.G.]

Man, the gun must always be in a locked container in California. The trunk counts as a locked container but the glove compartment does not. Besides, if you open your glove compartment to get your registration papers during a traffic stop, the cops are going to pump you full of lead.

As far as the closest place you can keep the shells, I don't think there is any provision dictating that. You can't have the gun loaded, and many people believe a loaded magazine constitutes a loaded gun, but I believe you could have the shells next to the rifle.

Me thinks you need to read the regs again so that you would not provide noobs with false information. You are thinking of handguns not shotguns.
This is a brief overview:
Traveling with Firearms in California

HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.
The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.
SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.
REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS

California Penal Code section 12285(c)(7) requires that registered assault weapons may be transported only between specified locations and must be unloaded and in a locked container when transported.
The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.


P.S SAS beat me to it!:)

[hoffmang]

As was said above - long guns don't need to be locked - they just need to be unloaded. As long as you're not a gang member you can have ammo close at hand even in a loaded magazine. See:

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf

-Gene

[RANGER295]

...what is the point of a truck gun? By the time you get it out of the trunk, or case, or case in the trunk, and get loaded up, whatever the problem is has already happened or is not going to most of thetime, right?
I have to disagree with you here. A lot of the people that have “truck guns” live in rural areas. Is it going to do you much good if someone is trying to hijack you? Probably not. But you can grab it in plenty of time to nail a coyote that you see in your fields or something like that. Or if you need to go out in the middle of the night to change your irrigation water or fix a pump or some other random thing that puts you where you may run into problems, you can grab it and load up before you get out of the truck. If you are an urbanite, then I guess there is not a whole lot of point to carrying a long gun other than because you can.

[gn3hz3ku1*]

Me thinks you need to read the regs again so that you would not provide noobs with false information. You are thinking of handguns not shotguns.
This is a brief overview:
Traveling with Firearms in California

HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.
The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.
SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES

Nonconcealable firearms (rifles and shotguns) are not generally covered within the provisions of California Penal Code section 12025 and therefore are not required to be transported in a locked container. However, as with any firearm, nonconcealable firearms must be unloaded while they are being transported. A rifle or shotgun that is defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Penal Code 12276 or 12276.1 must be transported in accordance with Penal Code section 12026.1.
REGISTERED ASSAULT WEAPONS

California Penal Code section 12285(c)(7) requires that registered assault weapons may be transported only between specified locations and must be unloaded and in a locked container when transported.
The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.


P.S SAS beat me to it!:)


so what do you do when you have a SUV where the "trunk" can be reached from inside the vehicle?

[hoffmang]

For handguns, lock them into a locked container. For long guns, nothing much special.

-Gene

[RANGER295]

so what do you do when you have a SUV where the "trunk" can be reached from inside the vehicle?
For a non AW long gun it does not matter. If it is an AW or handgun then you have to use a locked container. This is something that I have to deal with because I do not own a vehicle with a trunk just pickups and Suburbans.

[gn3hz3ku1*]

For handguns, lock them into a locked container. For long guns, nothing much special.

-Gene


ahhh damn DOJ.. now i have to go buy a locked container.. is there any regulation on this locked contrainer? does it have to be approved by iggy?

[hoffmang]

There are no regulations about a locked container. I've used a duffel bag that had a loop on one end of the zipper and threaded a padlock through.

-Gene

[c meikle]

Keep the SKS and some stripper clips ready in your trunk. Don't use an OLL rifle. Too much to lose if stolen. Of course I would'nt want any gun stolen from me but it easier on the mind to lose $150 than $900 and up. Just my 0.2 cents.

[383green]

so what do you do when you have a SUV where the "trunk" can be reached from inside the vehicle?
If I understand this right, the law does not say that a handgun needs to be in the trunk for transport. It says that a handgun needs to be in a locked container. It clarifies that the trunk of a car is considered a locked container, and a glove box or utility container is not a locked container. So, here are some examples:

1) Unloaded pistol sitting on the floor of a locked trunk: OK; the trunk is a locked container.

2) Unloaded pistol in the glove box or center console: NOT OK; the glove box or center console doesn't count as a locked container.

3) Unloaded pistol in a locked box, anywhere in the vehicle: OK; the box is a locked container.

4) Loaded pistol anywhere in the vehicle: NOT OK; needs to be unloaded.

So example number 3 would be one way to legally transport a pistol in an SUV. Sedans come with built-in lockable containers (i.e., the trunk), and SUVs need one to be added (for example, a locking pistol box from Turner's).

If I'm reading this right, it would be OK for an unloaded handgun to be in a locked container, which is itself in the glove box, center console, etc... in other words, it's not the "in the glove box" part which is restricted, but rather the glove box just doesn't count as a locked container all by itself.

Do I understand this correctly?

[hoffmang]

383,

You are completely correct. One warning is that some LEO's do not understand 3 in a car with a trunk. They are wrong, but know that they may inconvenience your day.

-Gene

[slick_711]

If I'm reading this right, it would be OK for an unloaded handgun to be in a locked container, which is itself in the glove box, center console, etc... in other words, it's not the "in the glove box" part which is restricted, but rather the glove box just doesn't count as a locked container all by itself.

Do I understand this correctly?

Yeah, you're completely correct, but as Hoffmang stated, I'd avoid leaving handguns laying about in the trunk, while legal some LEOs would question it. Just toss em in a range back or gun sock, better for your guns that way anyway. As to the glove box, a locked gun box inside the glove box would technically be fine legally, but I'd like to strongly suggest to all of you that you not keep any firearm in your glovebox at anytime. It's not illegal, just a dangerous idea. Think, thats the first place you reach if you get pulled over. The last thing you want to have to do is say: "Ok officer, I'm going to grab my registration from the glove box, there's a gun in there but its unloaded so don't worry."

Unloaded or no, that's a quick way to end up on the ground while your vehicle gets searched. And yes, at that point he would have a right to check the weapon and it's surrounding area (effectively the whole vehicle) for his own safety. Just don't put yourself in that situation.

[hoffmang]

Actually slick, I was saying that some LEO's don't know that a locked container in the passenger compartment is good enough. You are correct that the trunk issue is also not well known by LEO, but there it is less likely for them to notice.

-Gene

[383green]

I've always gone way beyond the minimal legal requirements for gun transport. I.e., any long or hand gun in a locked gun bag/container, and then locked in the trunk, or in the enclosed and locked bed of my pickup, or all the way at the back of my SUV when I had one. That's probably because I wasn't raised around guns (my folks are Democrats, beleive it or not!) and never even touched one until I was in college, so I needed to deprogram myself a bit to get to where I am now.

So, ignoring the possibility (maybe even probability) of being hassled by a law enforcement officer with an imperfect understanding of transport requirements, would I have been on firm legal ground to just stick my unloaded M1911 into a locked pistol bag and toss it on the front passenger seat on my way to the range, with a box of ammo sitting next to it?

Even after all these years, and all of the guns I've bought, shot, fixed, advocated and even built, I still have a hard time getting that last little bit of "original sin" out of my thinkin' with respect to firearms. I blame society. ;)

[hoffmang]

383,

That would be legal under California law.

-Gene

[blackberg]

I was thinking of something like this as a truck gun
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/nsa_photos/AK22full2.jpg


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/nsa_photos/AK22wireRTfull.jpg


http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/nsa_photos/AK22wireRTfld.jpg
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46484&page=2 (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=46484&page=2&highlight=22lr)

Yeah its in 22lr, but most bad guys will recognize an AK and since it has written "evil" all over it, that by it self may save some ammo. Oh and you get to use detachable mags.

[Crazed_SS]

IMO, the best truck gun would be a SKS w/ a couple stripper clips nearby.

[DrjonesUSA]

I dont think you read inbetween the lines. He said he would have a MM aka MonsterMan which is not a pistol grip. Therefore he can use detachable magazines.


Oops. :D

[maxicon]

I'd go for one of 3 choices:

Cost doesn't matter: SU16, due to compact size, light weight, removable mags. Put it in a zippered bag with pockets for some mags and ammo.

Cheap rifle: SKS in a zippered bag with a bunch of loaded stripper clips in the pockets. I have this setup in my safe as a grab-n-go rifle now.

Cheap shotgun: Your choice - Mossberg 500, Rem 870, Winchester 1200 in 18-20" barrel and extended mag tube in a zippered bag with ammo in the pockets.

It's hard to beat the SU16, overall, if you don't mind that it's double the cost or so.

[383green]

IMO, the best truck gun would be a SKS w/ a couple stripper clips nearby.
Maybe with a folding stock, and some of the snaggy bits like the bayonet mount cut off?

Personally, I think that the ideal "California Carbine" might be built around a Garand action, rebarreled for .308, with a folding pistol grip stock, and shortened like the so-called "tanker" Garands to minimum legal length. I think that if the magazine needs to be fixed and small, then en-bloc clips are the way to go. Such a gun wouldn't be nearly as cheap nor easy as a beater SKS, though.

Edited to add:I dug out my Russian SKS and took a close look at it. It looks like the bayonet mount and front sight are parts of one piece which is pinned in place on the barrel. I don't like the sights on the SKS anyway, so maybe the entire snaggy sight/bayonet block could be removed, and then one of these (http://161.58.206.244/store/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=scoutscopes&Product_Code=SK-1B) could be installed to hold some kind of optic sight? Hmm.

[JALLEN]

I have to disagree with you here. A lot of the people that have “truck guns” live in rural areas. Is it going to do you much good if someone is trying to hijack you? Probably not. But you can grab it in plenty of time to nail a coyote that you see in your fields or something like that. Or if you need to go out in the middle of the night to change your irrigation water or fix a pump or some other random thing that puts you where you may run into problems, you can grab it and load up before you get out of the truck. If you are an urbanite, then I guess there is not a whole lot of point to carrying a long gun other than because you can.

Having grown up in a "rural area" myself... hell, it was barely removed from the frontier... in the Texas hill country, I am familiar with those situations. Back there, a truck gun is usually a Win/Marlin hanging on the rack in the pick up rear window, ready to go. Most of the pick up trucks in my high school parking lot were outfitted like that!

You aren't disagreeing as much as pointing out that there are still circumstances where having a rifle in the car in some fashion is still useful. I don't disagree; in fact, I just bought a Win 94 for that among other uses.... and I don't even have a pick up!