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Norinco522
07-27-2011, 3:59 PM
Hello all, I'm new here. You see, I am thirteen years old, and ever since last year, I've been interested in firearms--mainly in how they work, and their sporting element in target shooting. I have done extensive research on firearms law, operating mechanisms, safety rules, and the like--the entire range of the topic. I have taken a particular liking to mil-surp and .22 rifles.
Unfortunately, these interests are not commensurate with those of my parents, who are very anti-gun--perhaps it has something to do with growing up in communist China? Anyway, I've tried every trick in the book, every logical argument, to obtain a .22 rifle of my own. The financial segment of this venture is a non-issue; I have and am willing to purchase entirely with my own savings, but under their name and official possession--correct me if this constitutes a straw purchase, as the laws governing this aspect of firearms are so convoluted that there are a million ambiguous cases.
As for the exact motive to why my parents dislike firearms--again, I believe it stems largely from the political atmosphere they grew up with in 1970's and 1980's China. My mother's dislike is almost entirely irrational, to the point where merely mentioning my wish to purchase incites a harsh rebuke. This dislike is compounded by the media's copious amount of murder stories--she believes that having a firearm in the house will inevitably lead to an accident--and the relative language barrier between us. With my father, the latter is not an issue, but the former remains. Despite my complete willingness to store the .22 in a range locker and only purchase ammo there, he still believes that again, accidents will inevitably happen. Over the past two years, we have had many spirited disagreements, all of which led to my loss.
Thus, I would like some help in convincing my parents that having a rifle does not automatically transform me into a school shooter, and into eventually purchasing a .22 of my own.

Maleficarum
07-27-2011, 4:33 PM
Usually i have suggestions for situations like this, coming from a similar background to yours (at least with my parent's views on me owning firearms) but the way i'm reading this your parents are going to be a tough sell. Unfortunately I had to just stick it out and wait until i was of age to purchase, but i managed to help turn my parents' fears down a little by doing a lot of research (as you already seem to have done) and presenting my opinions in as nonabrasive of a manner as possible, which i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have.

The only thing i could really suggest to you for now is try to get involved in a target shooting sport. I did this by getting involved in winter and summer biathlon (both olympic sports, iirc). The club i got involved in had club-owned rifles and they were only available at official training, safety briefings, and at races. Plus the exercise was an added bonus (my parents loved that i was out being active)! On the downside if your parents are that against you even handling firearms consent was required for underage persons when I shot biathlon, and i doubt this has or will change. (for legal liability reasons and whatnot)


You are (at least you read like you are) an incredibly well-versed person for someone your age and i think if you keep at (just don't nag them to death) it you will eventually reach some sort of compromise. Worst that happens is you just have to wait.

llamatrnr
07-27-2011, 4:41 PM
You may want to look into "Appleseed" at rwva.org. They might be able to advise. Good luck to you.

Norinco522
07-28-2011, 7:59 PM
Thanks for the advice; I have recently managed to compromise with my father. Though he is still adamant on not having firearms in the house, he, after two years of finagling, finally agreed to take me to a basic safety class at a range. I won't be able to own the specific scoped bolt-action .22 I desire yet, but hopefully--perhaps this is unrealistic--the gun bug will bite him at the class and get him interested in shooting, which in turn might warm him up to firearm purchase. It's a very long shot (no pun intended) , but I can always hope--again, thanks for the advice.

ironcross
07-29-2011, 9:20 PM
I know how it feels to be young when the gun bug bit. While my parents are pro gun. We grew up watching 'A Christmas Story'. I've started in the same way as you have. The mechanics is what interested me.

While there is no simple way of converting a anti to pro as it varies case by case.

What kind of hobbies does your father have (Esp one that his father did with him)? That is something to think about and possibly bring to the table.

Be like "Dad, your father took you out _____. While I have more of an interest with sport shooting and I would like to start our own tradition with you." Etc. Find some videos of father/son shooting?

Making him/them needed/wanted could warm things up. As I know it is hard for most father/son's to relate.

I know this won't gain you a rifle. But if you have any interest in Law Enforcement and your local LE Department offers the Explorers program. Should give that a go.

God help your wallet when you get bit by EBR disease / turn 18. :chris:

Best of luck!

Fatstackz
07-29-2011, 9:25 PM
OK, I'm calling BS ont this thread. It would be to good to be true to have a thirteen year old with that much logical thought process. Expeirment over.

llamatrnr
07-29-2011, 10:03 PM
OK, I'm calling BS ont this thread. It would be to good to be true to have a thirteen year old with that much logical thought process. Expeirment over.

Perfect spelling, too! ;)

Norinco522
07-31-2011, 12:45 AM
I assure you that I am indeed thirteen years old, albeit nearing fourteen. I've scored a 2260 on the SAT's, on my first time--no joke!

But, I digress. My father does have one prime sporting interest: ping-pong, a sport to China much like football is to the United States. To say the least, he's very good at the sport; despite being in his mid-forties, he still manages to routinely whip other players ten to fifteen years his junior, at the local community center. Age has evidently not taken the same toll on his ping-pong prowess--but I do not think the same can be said for shooting. I mean no offense to all you older shooters out there, but I've read countless threads about older, blurry eyes--hence why I want to start early and not wait until I hit the magic age of eighteen. However, I am nearsighted and wear prescription glasses--so that's probably a moot point anyway.

Unfortunately, I have already attempted this ping-pong route with my father. I have tried likening the purchase of a .22 rifle to the purchase of a new ping-pong paddle, but he still stubbornly believes that having a rifle will inevitably lead to an accident. Recently, as I have described, I have made some level of progress in my goals; he reluctantly agreed to take me to a local range for a basic safety class, and in the future, use rental firearms on a semi-routine basis. Though I have decided to leave him alone and enjoy these spoils of war, lest future argument destroy them, I still desire my own firearm. In fairness to him, I'll admit there's some logic in having a beginner use an entry-grade firearm for some time, as any inherent accuracy in the firearm will be lost in the inexperience of the shooter. Furthermore, as we live in a suburban area, storing the firearm at home does not make sense either, as the firearm will be used only at the range anyway.

My intended compromise is to store the rifle, ammunition, and accessories in a rented range locker, to avoid the "inevitable tragedy" that my father goes on about. I have made this offer to no avail, but I will try again in the future--this time with the child-father sporting argument that you brought up; I thank you for the idea. It is a shame, too--we actually relate very well, even to the point of political discussions.

Once again, I thank you all for your help. :)

Maleficarum
07-31-2011, 1:32 AM
Best of luck, it seems to me you're on the right path.

alfred1222
08-01-2011, 11:54 PM
I had a problem that was really similar to yours when i was 13. Parents see their children as something they have to protect from every possible injury or harm, and the thought of buying their child a rifle and letting him go practice shooting is almost impossible for them to process. The way I got around it is by doing a lot of research, which you clearly have done, and than presenting it to my parents in a logical fashion. Show them that its something that you want to pursue over the course of your life, not some fad like airsoft guns. Also, find some friends that go shooting, and have them take you. Im not sure if you've mentioned it above, but have you ever shot a gun before? As much as you might like them, it all changes that first time you pull the trigger. Im 18, and a lot of my friends that thought they would love shooting ended up being way to scared to even pull the trigger.

Honestly, and I dont mean to be rude at all ( I started shooting when I was 13), but your still really young. Despite how mature and smart you are, the older you grow, the more your parents will see you as an adult and the less they'll worry about you. If all that fails, just wait till you are 18 to buy yourself a badass rifle with the money you'll save up over the years. If I hadnt dumped so much money into airsoft and paintball when I was your age, I could have bought an ACR by now.

alfred1222
08-01-2011, 11:54 PM
O also, good luck. Show your parents calguns, get them to read some more about shooting as see where that gets you.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-08-2011, 6:07 PM
...The financial segment of this venture is a non-issue; I have and am willing to purchase entirely with my own savings, but under their name and official possession--correct me if this constitutes a straw purchase, as the laws governing this aspect of firearms are so convoluted that there are a million ambiguous cases...

It is legal for your parent to purchase a firearm from a dealer and give it to you as gift. But if they buy it for you with your money then that would constitute a straw purchase.

Norinco522
08-11-2011, 12:16 AM
Thank you for the clarification; I had several other scenarios in mind, though. What if the purchase itself counted as a gift? Or what if my parents were to contribute part of the money for the purchase?

Oh, and Alfred1222--I am saving up cash and luckily have avoided spending much of it. By the time I leave college, assuming I have anything left then, I'd like to purchase an Arsenal AK-74, and add a laminate stock for the "Russian Red" look. Hopefully 5.45x39mm ammunition will remain relatively inexpensive--or even imported from Russia, given the current political atmosphere. Of course, this will go on outside of California; I do not wish to neuter an AK with a bullet button or a MonsterMan grip and 10 round magazine. Oregon is my planned haven from the accursed gun laws here.

I have again attempted persuasion of my parents, to no avail. It particularly annoys me too, given the intense summer prep I'm doing for my two AP classes for my freshman year of high school. But I suppose I should again desist and allow them to cool off before trying again. I have received a reason from my father about his "arms embargo" after much persistence, though: He doesn't like guns, and as the breadwinner for the family and man of the house, he says that my interests will have to wait until I turn 18. I suppose that I have to respect this, as there is a certain logic to these words--but also a large measure of irrationality and stubbornness that I will have to overcome. But hopefully I have only several walls of his fort to tear down--the earlier salvos stemming from my research destroyed the "guns inevitably lead to death" hogwash. Wish me luck, and again, thank you for your help.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-12-2011, 4:13 AM
Thank you for the clarification; I had several other scenarios in mind, though. What if the purchase itself counted as a gift? Or what if my parents were to contribute part of the money for the purchase?

Your parent has to buy it for you as a bona fide gift. Otherwise it is a straw purchase. Once you convince them that you should own a firearm you could try the old "if you buy me a rifle for Christmas then I won't ask for anything for Christmas or my birthday for the next five years" angle. Or "if you buy me a rifle as a gift then I will pay for math camp this year".

But realistically what is more likely to happen is you will go target shooting with your dad at the rental range, he will get hooked on the sport, he will buy a rifle for himself. Then you can just borrow his rifle. It's easier to get your dad hooked on target shooting if you get involved in real target shooting for scores and not just shooting casually. Target shooting is a manly sport that middle-aged guys can do as well as young guys. So dads can easily get hooked.

frankm
08-12-2011, 9:13 AM
I think you'll have to settle for a BB/airsoft/pellet. Some nice pellet guns are scoped. It's not a perfect solution, but it is a step forward. They might go for it, just to get you to shut up about it. You can learn shooting well with a higher end pellet rifle.

budprop
08-14-2011, 1:04 PM
I assure you that I am indeed thirteen years old, albeit nearing fourteen. I've scored a 2260 on the SAT's, on my first time--no joke!

But, I digress. My father does have one prime sporting interest: ping-pong, a sport to China much like football is to the United States. To say the least, he's very good at the sport; despite being in his mid-forties, he still manages to routinely whip other players ten to fifteen years his junior, at the local community center. Age has evidently not taken the same toll on his ping-pong prowess--but I do not think the same can be said for shooting. I mean no offense to all you older shooters out there, but I've read countless threads about older, blurry eyes--hence why I want to start early and not wait until I hit the magic age of eighteen. However, I am nearsighted and wear prescription glasses--so that's probably a moot point anyway.

Unfortunately, I have already attempted this ping-pong route with my father. I have tried likening the purchase of a .22 rifle to the purchase of a new ping-pong paddle, but he still stubbornly believes that having a rifle will inevitably lead to an accident. Recently, as I have described, I have made some level of progress in my goals; he reluctantly agreed to take me to a local range for a basic safety class, and in the future, use rental firearms on a semi-routine basis. Though I have decided to leave him alone and enjoy these spoils of war, lest future argument destroy them, I still desire my own firearm. In fairness to him, I'll admit there's some logic in having a beginner use an entry-grade firearm for some time, as any inherent accuracy in the firearm will be lost in the inexperience of the shooter. Furthermore, as we live in a suburban area, storing the firearm at home does not make sense either, as the firearm will be used only at the range anyway.

My intended compromise is to store the rifle, ammunition, and accessories in a rented range locker, to avoid the "inevitable tragedy" that my father goes on about. I have made this offer to no avail, but I will try again in the future--this time with the child-father sporting argument that you brought up; I thank you for the idea. It is a shame, too--we actually relate very well, even to the point of political discussions.

Once again, I thank you all for your help. :)

With an SAT of 2260 what do you need us for, your intelligence at 13 easily outmatches 90% (a guess I am sure you know the actual statistic) of us on here.
First thing you need to do is stop messing around on the computer. In forums it is called trolling, and you sir are a troll. Now, go away and bug the folks on Craigslist.
:gun_bandana:

Norinco522
08-16-2011, 12:25 AM
If calmly, politely, and articulately requesting advice for a personal dilemma over the internet is considered trolling, then so be it. I will not attempt to convince you of my true intentions behind this thread, as doing so would be impossible over the disembodied words of the internet, stripped of true humanity. I will not stop "messing around on the computer", as you put it--I was not aware that my previous behavior constituted doing so. And I was not aware that I pushed my increased intelligence over that of "90% of...us on here"--only that I spend more thought and vocabulary on these forum posts than the average Netizen does.

Now that I have established that, I digress. The visit to the shooting range and safety class has moved my father's perception of firearms greatly, now that both of us have pulled the trigger for the first time. 50 rounds of factory reloaded .45 Auto cartridges through a 1911 has improved his perspective considerably; however, he remains intractable over the matter of purchase. His logic is that rental alone allows a much greater range of firearm use, without the responsibility that actual ownership entails. Also, he said, any .22 that I purchased would be a low-grade model and be a potential hazard, as he believes that I do not have the knowledge of proper firearm maintenance. My logic is that ownership gives me a repeatable and dependable platform that I can improve my skill on over a long-term period. Furthermore, I know models that possess relative quality for low price and I know how to clean a firearm. He broke the argument off there, and I knew better than to needle him further--but I also knew that I was closer than ever before. Some time for him to cool off, and I'll try the old argument again--but with my own financial segment out of the equation, pushing him into spending several hundred dollars on an implement he feels reluctant about to begin with will be a highly difficult matter. But again, I am closer than ever before.

nine mil thrill
08-19-2011, 7:41 PM
OK, I'm calling BS ont this thread. It would be to good to be true to have a thirteen year old with that much logical thought process. Expeirment over.


i agree !! no 13 year old uses words like adamant, commensurate....etc......
....not for a minute !!

sima09
08-19-2011, 9:33 PM
Attention Calgunners! There are smart kids out there! Good for him that he put some thought into what he is going to write and didn't write like most 13 years olds who tend 2 rite like diz 2 u n me cuz der iming every 4 secs...(I'm 20 I can read that can you lol)

That said...do you have an uncle/aunt who likes shooting or who could take you? Cousins maybe who are over 18? Parents usually do what they think is best for their kids, but it's the older cousins/aunts/uncles/gandparents who get to teach you all the "forbidden" stuff. (sneaking soda/candies/cookies/t rated games/bad words) In this case maybe you have a cousin who is also into firearms who could take you more regularly.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-19-2011, 11:54 PM
The last time I called BS troll on an Asian kid that seemed a little too smart it turned out to be TheSoupnazi. Now he is a Marine Corps officer. Sometimes Asian teenagers are just that smart.

theduece
08-20-2011, 12:41 AM
Well I say good for you and congratulations on actually getting your father to the range. I grew up in a similiar household ( as far as parents bieng anti as well as immigrants) and had to wait untill 18 to purchase my own gun. It wasn't untill 13 years later I talked my dad into going shooting with me, now every time we gets the chance he asks me to go.

Norinco522
10-24-2011, 5:51 PM
But, after years of effort, I have finally succeeded in pushing my parents into meeting my demands. After achieving an SAT score of 2360 this year as a high school freshman, I have received the reward of a firearm. The terms of the deal I have made with my father are to, in writing, completely describe the process of purchasing, storing, and transporting a firearm--which I have already done. He is digesting the material in the document I have written, and will soon make his decision on when to purchase. But soon, within the next month I should be able to become the proud owner of either a Ruger 10/22 or an NS-522 rifle. A .22 is a must here; it is the ideal cartridge for beginning shooters.

Coyotegunner
10-24-2011, 10:03 PM
If I may interject something from some experience with kids learning the use and handling of guns.I live in Apple Valley and belong to the AV Gun Club.Our club offers NRA sanctioned shooting events weekly for what they call juniors.22s are a big part of it,as well as shotgun/trap.They provide guns if you do not have your own yet.Point is,if it is OK with your parents,I am sure you would have a mentor or several willing to help you shoot.Check your local gun shops for gun clubs or place to shoot.I hope you find someone to help you get going.Good luck and welcome to the sport.By the way.Invite your parents along at some point.They may even join you.