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View Full Version : tactical entry 2 VS mc operator


qaz5109
07-26-2011, 7:10 PM
which one should i get looks like Kimber comes with better mags but the Mc operator looks pretty nice to does anybody have both or can somebody comment on either one of these?

cmoore
07-26-2011, 7:14 PM
MC Op and don't look back...fewer MIM'd parts

fullspeed1
07-26-2011, 7:37 PM
MC Op and don't look back...fewer MIM'd parts

Oh god, Here we go.......

qaz5109
07-26-2011, 7:44 PM
wow now im 50/50 again haha can the 2 of use comment alittle more

1911RONIN
07-26-2011, 7:51 PM
I can't say more than that I have an MC Op on layaway...I loved the look of the gun, it has everything I want standard, and when it came time to research its reliability, it was difficult to find ONE bad review of the gun...don't know if that's the case for the Kimber.

$.02

generalpetres
07-26-2011, 8:14 PM
im saving up for a mc operator, lifetime warranty and the gun just looks awesome.

PRCABR4Christ
07-26-2011, 8:34 PM
MC Operator is a Series 70 style 1911, which is why I would choose it over the Kimber, not that I have a particular grunt against firing pin blocks (Schwartz system in this case), but when given the choice between 2, I choose the S70 style...I will say removing and installing firing pins and firing pin stops is much easier in a S80 style, but that's the best thing about them...either one though should serve you well

fullspeed1
07-26-2011, 8:57 PM
I wouldn't spend over a $k on any pistol. here's a simple solution if you want a railed 45acp, Take that $1200 and buy A Glock 21sf, Ammo and sign up for a Fighting pistol class. Btw, I love my $700 Kimber Custom II;)

http://i488.photobucket.com/albums/rr250/fullspeed1/MarksBlackberry007-2.jpg

ljgrasso
07-26-2011, 9:05 PM
The lifetime warranty is a plus:D

civilsnake
07-26-2011, 9:44 PM
I don't understand the great extra benefit a lifetime warranty grants. The gun is warranted against defects, not wear and tear. Do you really think you're going to find a defect in 7 years that you didn't find in the first year? I would honestly love to see the statistics on warranty work over time for SA.

That said, I chose the MCO, and it had to go back several times for fixing. All in the first couple months lol

de1911
07-26-2011, 9:53 PM
Go with the Kimber, buy American ;)

kTC xDEICIDEx
07-26-2011, 10:01 PM
^^^ Well said my friend! 

Molby242
07-27-2011, 7:55 AM
Go with the Kimber, buy American ;)

Brazil is American....







South American :D

xibunkrlilkidsx
07-27-2011, 7:56 AM
I don't understand the great extra benefit a lifetime warranty grants. The gun is warranted against defects, not wear and tear. Do you really think you're going to find a defect in 7 years that you didn't find in the first year? I would honestly love to see the statistics on warranty work over time for SA.

That said, I chose the MCO, and it had to go back several times for fixing. All in the first couple months lol

because when your are on a motorcylce and the new gun falls out and gets ran over a few times at freeway speeds and you send it back to springfield and they charge you like $100 for repairing the everything...... the lifetime warranty is worth it. used to have the link to this story but cant find it anymore.

Sam
07-27-2011, 9:31 AM
which one should i get looks like Kimber comes with better mags but the Mc operator looks pretty nice to does anybody have both or can somebody comment on either one of these?

I don't think which stock magazines are better should be a factor in your decision. After you buy your gun just stock up on Wilson magazines.

leelaw
07-27-2011, 9:39 AM
I'd replace the magazines for either of those pistols, and donate the factory magazines to a poor starving (because they're saving up for that $1500 ar) college student

civilsnake
07-27-2011, 10:43 AM
Damn that would be nice. If their warranty extends to accidental damage then yeah, it's a selling point.

ZX-10R
07-27-2011, 10:46 AM
Go with the Kimber, buy American ;)

Winner...Civilsnake made a great point...Lifetime warranty? You know something is wrong within the first 500 rounds or a 1000 for safe measure. None of my rifles and handguns had any issues at all the first year.

Kimber was on my list and I went Colt and am happy with my decision...SA was not on my list. Made in Brazil does not seem right especially for the money.

AeroEngi
07-27-2011, 11:12 AM
Winner...Civilsnake made a great point...Lifetime warranty? You know something is wrong within the first 500 rounds or a 1000 for safe measure. None of my rifles and handguns had any issues at all the first year.

Kimber was on my list and I went Colt and am happy with my decision...SA was not on my list. Made in Brazil does not seem right especially for the money.

How about if the serial # starts with "NM" like the MC Operator? Assembled in the States...

Paper Boy
07-27-2011, 11:35 AM
which one should i get looks like Kimber comes with better mags but the Mc operator looks pretty nice to does anybody have both or can somebody comment on either one of these?

Might as well start a .45 vs 9mm thread since your at it....


Personally I am not a fan of kimber, the ones my buddies have bought have all had feeding issues. I know some people will say its the mags, or they were never cleaned or what have you, but this is just my experience. One buddy even said "If my kimber even looks at a piece of dirt it jams" I ran one of my Springfields through gunsite and the dust and dirt of off roading and dirt biking all over AZ and never once had a jam.

Like I said just my experience, I am sure some people here have a Kimber that has never jammed but my friends guns have had issues. Go and shoot both, maybe you will like the feel of one more than the other...

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/42636/2611231950072664822S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2611231950072664822DWGVEV)

redcliff
07-27-2011, 12:08 PM
None of the MC Operators I'm aware of are stamped "Made in Brazil". The US govenment considers them made in US due to parts content % and labor performed, perhaps you should to.

The fact that the raw forgings with varying amounts of maching depending upon model are made in Brazil by Imbel which is one of the top arms producers in the world, personally bothers me not.

Most "American" automobiles contain 20% or more parts not made in the America. Our government considers parts made in "Canada" as being "American made" for % totals.

AeroEngi
07-27-2011, 12:11 PM
None of the MC Operators I'm aware of are stamped "Made in Brazil". The US govenment considers them made in US due to parts content % and labor performed, perhaps you should to.

The fact that the raw forgings with varying amounts of maching depending upon model are made in Brazil by Imbel which is one of the top arms producers in the world, personally bothers me not.

Most "American" automobiles contain 20% or more parts not made in the America. Our government considers parts made in "Canada" as being "American made" for % totals.

Very well said!

socal425
07-27-2011, 1:44 PM
None of the MC Operators I'm aware of are stamped "Made in Brazil". The US govenment considers them made in US due to parts content % and labor performed, perhaps you should to.

The fact that the raw forgings with varying amounts of maching depending upon model are made in Brazil by Imbel which is one of the top arms producers in the world, personally bothers me not.

Most "American" automobiles contain 20% or more parts not made in the America. Our government considers parts made in "Canada" as being "American made" for % totals.

Bingo! l love my MC Operator. :D

BookerT
07-27-2011, 8:09 PM
As a Kimber owner, I would truly suggest getting the Springfield. Seriously, don't buy a Kimber. I've had mine for 2 months and it's already going back to them for barrel issues. Look up "kimber barrel ripples" or "kimber barrel issues" on google and you will know what I'm talking about, alot of people have had that RIDICULOUS issue.

If I could go back in time, I would have just plopped down the extra $1k and gotten a Les Baer or Wilson. If I was still looking to spend around 1k though I probably would have ended up with the MC Operator.

Don't buy into this "buy American" bull crap. Buy QUALITY, regardless of its origin.

And believe me, that lifetime warranty wont seem useless once your gun has a $300 issue 366 days into you owning it, I've seen it happen...

Bottom line, to answer your question, buy the Springfield.

Hope this helped.

fullspeed1
07-27-2011, 9:09 PM
Booker, Your non issue in the Kimber barrel is called "ghosting or chattermarks", And it's prevelant with Kimber's barrel machining process. It has no effect on the pistols accuracy or performance at all.

BookerT
07-28-2011, 12:50 AM
which one should i get looks like Kimber comes with better mags but the Mc operator looks pretty nice to does anybody have both or can somebody comment on either one of these?

Just so you know, calling the Kimber mags pieces of crap, is giving them a huge compliment.

Cuda440
07-28-2011, 11:51 AM
As a Kimber owner, I would truly suggest getting the Springfield. Seriously, don't buy a Kimber. I've had mine for 2 months and it's already going back to them for barrel issues. Look up "kimber barrel ripples" or "kimber barrel issues" on google and you will know what I'm talking about, alot of people have had that RIDICULOUS issue.

If I could go back in time, I would have just plopped down the extra $1k and gotten a Les Baer or Wilson. If I was still looking to spend around 1k though I probably would have ended up with the MC Operator.

Don't buy into this "buy American" bull crap. Buy QUALITY, regardless of its origin.

And believe me, that lifetime warranty wont seem useless once your gun has a $300 issue 366 days into you owning it, I've seen it happen...

Bottom line, to answer your question, buy the Springfield.

Hope this helped.

apparently, you haven't seen this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=456053&highlight=What%27s+wrong+1911

Kimber barrels may get small ripples, but Springfield barrels fall apart.

The locking lugs on your barrel slam against the matching lugs on the slide every time the gun fires. If your gun locks up tight, you will probably develop these ripples eventually, even more so if you have a stainless barrel. That's the design of the 1911, the manufacturer doesn't make a difference.

It's obvious that condemning all Kimbers because you got barrel ghosting doesn't make sense, just as it doesn't make sense to condemn all Springfields over a broken barrel.

Both weapons are quality pieces, and both come with junk mags. You'll be fine with either choice. Personally, I would support the American made and manufactured Kimber, not the Brazilian made, assembled in US Springfield. Plain and simple- Kimber employes more Americans, and the money stays in the American economy, which is exactly what this country needs right now.

Untamed1972
07-28-2011, 3:30 PM
Did Springfield ever make an OD green operator w/o the rail on it?

Plisk
07-28-2011, 3:47 PM
I've owned my MC Operator for over 2 years now. I've never been disappointed in it and Springfield's Warranty work on it was outstanding. I discovered about 1100 rounds into it that there was a casting bubble in the frame right on the feed ramp! Springfield was able to fully repair my exsiting frame without having to replace it. That process took some significant skill to accomplish. Quality products backed by quality service.

I've personally dealt with very good and some bad from Kimber. I've played with a Raptor II quite a bit and I am thoroughly impressed by Kimber's higher end models. It's Coke and Pepsi, and I'm a Coke guy.

qaz5109
07-28-2011, 7:49 PM
wow thanks for all the replies MC sounds like the choice ill just have to buy better mags maybe wilson ??

BajaJames83
07-28-2011, 7:50 PM
kimber warrior!!
shot the hell out of mine no problems

Mr_Dunev
07-28-2011, 7:57 PM
SMOOTH OPERATOOOOR

PRCABR4Christ
07-28-2011, 8:23 PM
wow thanks for all the replies MC sounds like the choice ill just have to buy better mags maybe wilson ??

1911's are notorious for being finicky on mags, once you find mags that your weapon likes, buy them, I use CMC, WIlson, and Colt with no problems, the Pro Mags I have only like gov't size 1911's, and I've yet to have a problem with Novak mags as well

stormvet
07-28-2011, 8:28 PM
I support the buy american, but the main reason I would not buy the S.A. OP is the baby butt smooth front grip and those hideous grips.

redcliff
07-28-2011, 8:40 PM
apparently, you haven't seen this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=456053&highlight=What%27s+wrong+1911

Kimber barrels may get small ripples, but Springfield barrels fall apart.

The locking lugs on your barrel slam against the matching lugs on the slide every time the gun fires. If your gun locks up tight, you will probably develop these ripples eventually, even more so if you have a stainless barrel. That's the design of the 1911, the manufacturer doesn't make a difference.

It's obvious that condemning all Kimbers because you got barrel ghosting doesn't make sense, just as it doesn't make sense to condemn all Springfields over a broken barrel.

Both weapons are quality pieces, and both come with junk mags. You'll be fine with either choice. Personally, I would support the American made and manufactured Kimber, not the Brazilian made, assembled in US Springfield. Plain and simple- Kimber employes more Americans, and the money stays in the American economy, which is exactly what this country needs right now.

The consensus of opinions on the 1911 forums is that these ripples are caused by improper cutter speed/lubrication creating chatter or barrel material "springback" during machining, and seems especially prevalent with Kimbers 5" barrels.

I've found nothing yet that supports your claim that "if your gun locks up tight you will probably develop these ripples too" or that it's a common 1911 problem. Kimber seems to be the only manufacturer that doesn't believe this is a defect and passes out Kool-Aid.

Additionally none of my (15) 1911's I've owned and shot over the last 30+ years have developed ripples.