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socalocalypse
07-24-2011, 11:52 PM
I've been leaving my .22 rifle and a few pistols in the trunk of my car, and I was wondering if I can get in trouble for that?

They're unloaded, in locked cases, with gun locks, in my locked trunk, with ammo in a separate container.

I've been going to the range a few times a week and I don't always feel like lugging that stuff all over the apartment complex and up and down stairs. I also like being able to drop in at the range when the mood strikes and I don't have to go home and load everything.

I'm a grown up with a decent car, I'm not keeping them in my trunk for any other reason than convenience for target shooting.

The rifle is a 10/22.

Am I breaking any laws? I'm sure I'm inviting unwanted scrutiny should I get pulled over and get asked the ' do you have any guns knives grenades or nuclear weapons' thing, but that's a seperate issue.

thank you in advance!

KylaGWolf
07-25-2011, 12:13 AM
Nope and to be technical your trunk itself is considered a locked container. And well look at it this way if you ever need to defend yourself when you are out and about you at least have the guns although may take you a bit more time to get to them being locked in a case and then unlock the gun locks. You could even technically have the ammo in the cases with the gun as long as they are not loaded.

G-forceJunkie
07-25-2011, 12:19 AM
I've been leaving my .22 rifle and a few pistols in the trunk of my car...

Am I breaking any laws?

Nope.

I'm sure I'm inviting unwanted scrutiny should I get pulled over and get asked the ' do you have any guns knives grenades or nuclear weapons' thing, but that's a seperate issue.



Tell them "No" and politely refuse if the following question is "Then do you mind if I have a look in the trunk?

G-forceJunkie
07-25-2011, 12:20 AM
Nope and to be technical your trunk itself is considered a locked container.

Unless its like many newer cars where the rear seats fold down to give access to the trunk. In those type of cars, you would still need to have the pistols in a locked container.

socalocalypse
07-25-2011, 12:33 AM
Thank you Kyla and G-Force

I thought I was OK but these laws get confusing.

I lock the cases because I read that the guns need to be locked carrying them between my apartment and my car.

If I'm ever asked about them by the law, my plan is to dummy up and ask for my lawyer to be present to answer questions. I'm law abiding but I'm certain the police would love to arrest me and confiscate my guns, thumping their chest and saying they 'got them off the street'.

Why go after a gang member when you can nail a middle age guy that likes to target shoot.

edit: good point about the folding seats! I don't think mine fold, but there may be a ski passthrough and I'd bet that's all it'd take. Anything to criminalize the innocent. How can they control us if we're not guilty of something?!?

G-forceJunkie
07-25-2011, 1:00 AM
If I'm ever asked about them by the law, my plan is to dummy up and ask for my lawyer to be present to answer questions.

Don't even let it get that far. You can legally lie and say "No" to their fishing question of "Any firearms or anything I should know about in the car?" Say "No", then deflect any additional question by replying with questions of your own.

"So you know why i pulled you over tonight" "No sir" and say nothing else.

"Any weapons in the vehicle I should know about?" "No sir" and nothing else.

"Then you wound mind if I have a look in your trunk?" If you want to be a little cocky, "I do not consent to any search." But it would probably flow better to deflect the question and instead reply with a question like "Can I ask why i was pulled over sir?" You didn't answer his question, and changed the subject.

thomasanelson
07-25-2011, 7:31 AM
There is some debate about keeping a handgun in your car. The laws regarding handgun transportation in CA is more restrictive that long guns. Generally, you are only supposed to transport a handgun to and from legal places with reasonable stops in between. Legal places would be your home(s), business, gun range, gun store, hunting, fishing, etc.

calilivin
07-25-2011, 7:36 AM
What about carrying in the bed of a pickup. Gun locks needed for long guns and pistols? What about the ammo being in the same location? Thanks

stix213
07-25-2011, 7:45 AM
What about carrying in the bed of a pickup. Gun locks needed for long guns and pistols? What about the ammo being in the same location? Thanks

Gun locks don't do anything legally for the transport of firearms. Safest is to put unloaded guns in a secure locked container which allows you to travel through gun free school zones. Ammo can be in the same container.

JB-Norcal
07-25-2011, 8:07 AM
You're legal but is it a good idea?
What's more possible in your living arrangement, home burglary or car theft/burglary? That's my concern with continual trunk storage.
For me and mine where and how we live, in the house is best. I can handle inconvenience, it's a small price to pay as oppossed to replacing my stuff and putting guns on the street. YMMV

bill_k_lopez
07-25-2011, 8:14 AM
You're legal but is it a good idea?
What's more possible in your living arrangement, home burglary or car theft/burglary? That's my concern with continual trunk storage.
For me and mine where and how we live, in the house is best. I can handle inconvenience, it's a small price to pay as oppossed to replacing my stuff and putting guns on the street. YMMV

Exactly what I was thinking - cars get stolen a lot more often than homes get broken into. And guns in a safe at your home are less likely to be stolen than guns left in your bedroom nightstand. Inconvenience is a small price to pay.

Another thing you need to think about is where you go - don't ever just happen to drive on the campus of a school (i.e. make a u turn in their driveway).

Blackhawk556
07-25-2011, 11:24 AM
This is so true. Several months ago i got pulled over, when he asked this question I took a breath and was about to admit "Because I was talking on the phone" at the last second I said, "NO"
It turns out i had a blown headlight, that's all. I'm so glad I kept my mouth shut.

"So you know why i pulled you over tonight" "No sir" and say nothing else.

.

is this true? :eek:
I always have them in a case but it is not locked with a key.


I lock the cases because I read that the guns need to be locked carrying them between my apartment and my car.


Why go after a gang member when you can nail a middle age guy that likes to target shoot.

edit: good point about the folding seats! I don't think mine fold, but there may be a ski passthrough and I'd bet that's all it'd take. Anything to criminalize the innocent. How can they control us if we're not guilty of something?!?

sakosf
07-25-2011, 12:33 PM
I would suggest just keeping the rifle in your trunk, when you are not just going to and from the range, gunsmith....
When I travel to some rather remote areas of the State, I usually have a bolt action, miltary surplus, rifle locked in my trunk.....unloaded of course. The milsurp rifle I normally take is reliable, accurate and shoots to the point of aim at 100yrds

G-forceJunkie
07-25-2011, 12:38 PM
is this true? :eek:
I always have them in a case but it is not locked with a key.

Techinally, you are transporting concealed pistols in public places which is illegal unless it is in a locked container.

paul0660
07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
There is some debate about keeping a handgun in your car. The laws regarding handgun transportation in CA is more restrictive that long guns. Generally, you are only supposed to transport a handgun to and from legal places with reasonable stops in between. Legal places would be your home(s), business, gun range, gun store, hunting, fishing, etc.

You have debates about this? 12026.2 has restrictions and particular places that apply to everyone. 12026.1 allows locked unloaded carry anywhere, anytime, by citizens.

(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any
motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm,
the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the
otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in
accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock,
combination lock, or similar locking device.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html

Reading the code can save a lot of time, and end debates.

Scottie15
07-25-2011, 12:50 PM
There is some debate about keeping a handgun in your car. The laws regarding handgun transportation in CA is more restrictive that long guns. Generally, you are only supposed to transport a handgun to and from legal places with reasonable stops in between. Legal places would be your home(s), business, gun range, gun store, hunting, fishing, etc.

This is incorrect. You may carry handguns locked and unloaded most anywhere in the state except for places like courthouses, the PO, etc. Registered AW's have transportation restrictions.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

Librarian
07-25-2011, 1:14 PM
You have debates about this? 12026.2 has restrictions and particular places that apply to everyone. 12026.1 allows locked unloaded carry anywhere, anytime, by citizens.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.1.html



... in vehicles.

12026.2 appears to have restrictions when NOT in a vehicle, plus the 'escape clause' in (c) (c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
But, after research and discussion, I am persuaded that the 12026.2 'destination requirements' do not apply to handgun transportation in vehicles; 12026.1 and 12026.2 have different legislative histories.

paul0660
07-25-2011, 1:20 PM
But, after research and discussion, I am persuaded that the 12026.2 'destination requirements' do not apply to handgun transportation in vehicles; 12026.1 and 12026.2 have different legislative histories.

I know. Still unconvinced, would love a good outcome of a challenge. It won't be by me.

And, to get back to de tread, it was about car trunks.

bwiese
07-25-2011, 2:02 PM
Please ignore above handwaving about noncriminals generally driving with locked/unloaded handguns. This was analyzed here some time before.

Do also remember many modern sedan trunks may not really be considered 'locked' since they have fold-down 'pass-thru' rear seats allowing access to trunk space even if closed. (Ford Taurus perfect example.)

Also there may be a dash-mounted pushbutton that allows trunk lid to be popped and that may futher add unclarity to whether trunk is locked or not.

de1911
07-25-2011, 3:19 PM
If you want a car that's eco-friendly and has a secure trunk get a Ford Fusion hybrid. The battery is behind the back seat and blocks access to the trunk.

My understanding is that rifles do not have to be in a locked container but need to be unloaded, also that trigger locks are not a locked container.

Ubermcoupe
07-25-2011, 7:04 PM
I wish I was able to make it out several times a week...

I understand you're not wanting to lug stuff back & forth, especially with prying eyes, but there is always the threat of theft, and I know I would HATE to see my guns get stolen.
If your vehicle has a "lock out" feature for a push button type deal I would definitely use that.

Just something to think about. =)

thomasanelson
07-26-2011, 11:31 AM
Here is why (see bottom clause in bold):

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(1) The possession of a firearm by an authorized participant in a
motion picture, television, or video production or entertainment
event when the participant lawfully uses the firearm as part of that
production or event or while going directly to, or coming directly
from, that production or event.
(2) The possession of a firearm in a locked container by a member
of any club or organization, organized for the purpose of lawfully
collecting and lawfully displaying pistols, revolvers, or other
firearms, while the member is at meetings of the clubs or
organizations or while going directly to, and coming directly from,
those meetings.
(3) The transportation of a firearm by a participant when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a recognized safety or hunter
safety class, or a recognized sporting event involving that firearm.
(4) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 directly between any of the places mentioned in Section 12026.
(5) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a fixed place of business or
private residential property for the purpose of the lawful repair or
the lawful transfer, sale, or loan of that firearm.
(6) The transportation of a firearm by a person listed in Section
12026 when going directly from the place where that person lawfully
received that firearm to that person's place of residence or place of
business or to private property owned or lawfully possessed by that
person.
(7) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show, swap meet, or
similar event to which the public is invited, for the purpose of
displaying that firearm in a lawful manner.
(8) The transportation of a firearm by an authorized employee or
agent of a supplier of firearms when going directly to, or coming
directly from, a motion picture, television, or video production or
entertainment event for the purpose of providing that firearm to an
authorized participant to lawfully use as a part of that production
or event.
(9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.
(10) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a place designated by a person
authorized to issue licenses pursuant to Section 12050 when done at
the request of the issuing agency so that the issuing agency can
determine whether or not a license should be issued to that person to
carry that firearm.
(11) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a lawful camping activity for
the purpose of having that firearm available for lawful personal
protection while at the lawful campsite. This paragraph shall not be
construed to override the statutory authority granted to the
Department of Parks and Recreation or any other state or local
governmental agencies to promulgate rules and regulations governing
the administration of parks and campgrounds.
(12) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with subdivision (c) or (i) of Section 12078 as it pertains to
that firearm.
(13) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize subdivision (l) of Section 12078 as it pertains to that
firearm.
(14) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a gun show or event, as defined
in Section 478.100 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations,
for the purpose of lawfully transferring, selling, or loaning that
firearm in accordance with subdivision (d) of Section 12072.
(15) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
utilize paragraph (6) of subdivision (a) of Section 12078 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(16) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm in order to comply with Article 1 (commencing with Section
2080) of Chapter 4 of Division 3 of the Civil Code as it pertains to
that firearm and if that firearm is being transported to a law
enforcement agency, the person gives prior notice to the law
enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to the
law enforcement agency.
(17) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(18) The transportation of a firearm by a person who finds the
firearm and is transporting it to a law enforcement agency for
disposition according to law, if he or she gives prior notice to the
law enforcement agency that he or she is transporting the firearm to
the law enforcement agency for disposition according to law.
(19) The transportation of a firearm by a person in order to
comply with paragraph (3) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 as it
pertains to that firearm.
(20) The transportation of a firearm by a person for the purpose
of obtaining an identification number or mark assigned for that
firearm from the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12092.
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

mrdd
07-26-2011, 12:36 PM
Here is why (see bottom clause in bold):

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:
(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

PC 12026.1 provides a motor vehicle transport exemption which does not contain destination limitations. As long as you meet the requirements for 12026.1, you are covered by that.

Decoligny
07-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Here is why (see bottom clause in bold):

(b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d),
and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between
authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the
circumstances.
(c) This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this
chapter.
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.

The bold section actually means: In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision 12026.2 (a), while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be unloaded, kept in a locked container, as defined in subdivision (d), and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

As has been mentioned before PC 12026.1 and PC 12026.2 DO NOT interact, they are two seperate sections of PC, each its own exemption to PC 12025.

PC 12026.1 deals specifically with WITHIN A MOTOR VEHICLE, and there is no destination language contained therein.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.
(2) The firearm is carried by the person directly to or from any motor vehicle for any lawful purpose and, while carrying the firearm, the firearm is contained within a locked container.
(b) The provisions of this section do not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful carrying or transportation of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in accordance with this chapter.
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.

paul0660
07-26-2011, 12:49 PM
And the word citizen appears in .1 and not in .2, almost as if they were paying attention to the 2A, while forgetting the 14th.

socalocalypse
07-26-2011, 12:55 PM
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and thorough replies.

As best I can tell, to summarize, as long as I have the guns unloaded in my trunk in a locked bag I'm transporting them legally. I can transport them anywhere legal to do so , with only deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary.

I take this to mean by the letter of the law I can probably leave them in my trunk, but the spirit of the law(I'm not a lawyer, so I'm doing the best I can :) )seems to be saying not to drive around with them in the trunk.

Reading between the lines, and based on my somewhat decently founded paranoia, I think the police could take my guns if they find them and aren't satisfied with my explanation of what they're doing in the trunk.

These laws chap my Texas ***, but as long as I live here I'll follow them and donate to CalGuns and let them duke it out in court. I suspect it's much cheaper that way :-)

Thanks again. I thought there was a quick answer to this.

Now I'm going to a legal destination, the gun range, with a reasonable deviation to Turners to buy a couple .22 rifles! Nutnfancy talked me into it, and that Marlin being on sale for just over $100 with a rebate seals the deal. :66:

stix213
07-26-2011, 1:19 PM
If you want a car that's eco-friendly and has a secure trunk get a Ford Fusion hybrid. The battery is behind the back seat and blocks access to the trunk.

My understanding is that rifles do not have to be in a locked container but need to be unloaded, also that trigger locks are not a locked container.

The federal gun free school zone law has handgun like locked container rules, with an alternative for a locking gun rack for long guns.

mrdd
07-26-2011, 1:27 PM
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and thorough replies.

As best I can tell, to summarize, as long as I have the guns unloaded in my trunk in a locked bag I'm transporting them legally. I can transport them anywhere legal to do so , with only deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary.

According to PC 12026.1, as long as you are a U.S. Citizen over the age of 18, and not a prohibited person, there are no destination requirements. Using a separate locked container inside the trunk is suggested. Your specific trunk may not be considered a locked container by itself. Or, what if you get a flat tire while inside a school zone?

I take this to mean by the letter of the law I can probably leave them in my trunk, but the spirit of the law(I'm not a lawyer, so I'm doing the best I can :) )seems to be saying not to drive around with them in the trunk.

I don't think it has anything to do with the law. Some are suggesting it may not be wise to do so, for a number of practical reasons.

Reading between the lines, and based on my somewhat decently founded paranoia, I think the police could take my guns if they find them and aren't satisfied with my explanation of what they're doing in the trunk.

That is always a possibility. The question then is: what were you doing at the time which caused the police to stop and question you? Do you understand the rights you have under the 4th and 5th amendments to the U.S. Constitution? Do you know how to apply your rights in such a situation?

Uriah02
07-26-2011, 2:01 PM
Tell them "No" and politely refuse if the following question is "Then do you mind if I have a look in the trunk?

It is bad mojo to lie to LEO. You can always reply with "I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle" and still refuse an unwarranted search.

G-forceJunkie
07-26-2011, 7:21 PM
We are talking about legalitys, not "mojo." He can ask all the questions he wants about things not within the scope of the reason he performed a traffic stop on my including if there are guns in the car, the length of my johnson, or the color of my moms hair. I can lie to him about all those. It is bad mojo to lie to LEO. You can always reply with "I do not have anything illegal in my vehicle" and still refuse an unwarranted search.

EOD Guy
07-27-2011, 8:43 AM
Unless its like many newer cars where the rear seats fold down to give access to the trunk. In those type of cars, you would still need to have the pistols in a locked container.

Most if these vehicles that I've seen also have a provision for locking out access to the trunk from the passenger compartment.

ccmc
07-27-2011, 10:50 AM
It's sad that in a country with RKBA in the Constitution that there are states where questions like this have to be asked.

socalocalypse
07-28-2011, 7:26 AM
To purchase, own, and transport firearms in california is expensive, frustrating, inconvenient, and confusing when it comes to the legalities.

Everytime I go to buy a gun I'm almost falling asleep in the store because it takes so long and I'm so bored.

Or maybe that's just how slow Turners is. heh

Regardless, I'll be damned if I'll let this state stop me from exercising my 2nd amendment RIGHT, not a privilege.

That, and I'm going to move out of here as fast as I can :D

cmichini
07-28-2011, 7:42 PM
As stated above, sounds like your OK with the bedwetting laws, and LEO's.

However, if it were me, I wouldn't leave the guns in the car. Ammo, gear, etc. would be OK, not preferable, but OK. Guns come in the house.

I've read more than one thread here where a guy left something in his trunk overnight because he didn't want to lug it and it wound up missing the next morning. Lots of headaches, etc. PLUS lost guns and potential for them to be used elsehwere.

I don't even like to leave them in my car if I stop for lunch on the way back from the range (I actually park/eat so they are in my line of sight). I may be paranoid, but kind of like the safety rules, the one time you get lax....

PyroFox79
07-28-2011, 9:31 PM
Or you could just drive like a normal person, and not draw any attention to your self. Making sure your car has no headlights out or anything of that sort.

When I drive with firearms I drive the speed limit, basically like one should drive not how one likes to drive.