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zrock
07-23-2011, 3:59 PM
Any pilots out there?

Tacit Blue
07-23-2011, 4:26 PM
I have done 'some' training, pretty well versed in the aviation area. What would u like to know?

man11withaplan
07-23-2011, 4:30 PM
I'm a certified Private Pilot, but in the Fixed wing area. Might be awhile to be in the Rotary Business. Mainly because with my money crunch. VFR and with a total of flight hours around 90

TrailerparkTrash
07-23-2011, 10:15 PM
Do you want answers from LE helicopter pilot(s) or civilian helo pilot(s)??? Ask away, what's your question?

zrock
07-24-2011, 5:46 AM
Questions sent to trash and blue . Let me know if you did'nt get them.

Thanks z

TrailerparkTrash
07-24-2011, 1:17 PM
PM sent to zrock..........

Marty33
07-24-2011, 6:57 PM
I am a pilot, whats up?

Ron-Solo
07-24-2011, 11:49 PM
Me ex-JAFO.

Just Another F Observer......... :D

ironcross
07-25-2011, 3:08 AM
Me ex-JAFO.

Just Another F Observer......... :D

We call them TFO's down here. I guess a fancy naming for Tactical Flight Officer. AKA the Observer.

Ron-Solo
07-25-2011, 11:01 AM
We call them TFO's down here. I guess a fancy naming for Tactical Flight Officer. AKA the Observer.

I think that's what they call them here now, too. They even have a POST certified training program for the position.

When I flew, it was"get in, strap in, and don't barf". :D

Sky Knight, LASD Lakewood, 1983-84.

copter976
07-25-2011, 2:01 PM
Now you got us all curious! What did you need to know???!!!

zrock
07-25-2011, 4:51 PM
Thanks guys

Marty33
07-25-2011, 5:37 PM
Yes, you can join the "Mile High Club" in Helos too.

TrailerparkTrash
07-25-2011, 6:39 PM
Now you got us all curious! What did you need to know???!!!

He had questions about T4, Ng & Torque (A-stars). :D:D:D:D

Tacit Blue
07-25-2011, 7:06 PM
Those ghey Eurocopters, fly American instead !:cool2: The blade system on a Astar is clockwise for starters!!

You have to make opposite inputs for torque in a Astar, compared to 98% of all other helicopters..

A Bell 407, MD530's come to mind. Anything with a fully articulated rotor system, versus a semi rigid on a Huey.

Jwood562
07-25-2011, 7:38 PM
I dont think I am allowed back in our airship. When I was on training a few years ago my FTO took me up, right after eating some tacos.

The pilot really let me have it. I swear the control they have over those things is amazing. LEts just say the tacos made a re-apperance into a small bag. After landing the pilet say, "take it with you and don't come back in to my helicopter." all with a big smile on his face.

I said, "sir yes sir" and walked away with my doggie bag of barf.

i wonder if they remeber me :turned:

TrailerparkTrash
07-25-2011, 11:10 PM
Those ghey Eurocopters, fly American instead !:cool2: The blade system on a Astar is clockwise for starters!!

You have to make opposite inputs for torque in a Astar, compared to 98% of all other helicopters..

A Bell 407, MD530's come to mind. Anything with a fully articulated rotor system, versus a semi rigid on a Huey.

Astars have a proprietary rotor system called the "Starflex", semi-rigid, bearingless hub type system. They allow the helicopter to to enter negative-G's without worrying about chopping off the tail boom, unlike Robinsons, Bells etc...

Bell 407's are nothing more than a 4 bladed jet ranger. Which by the way, SUCK for patrol missions. They can't turn on a dime, unlike the A-Stars. They don't have the responsiveness like an A-Star, plain and simple. The MD 530's are great helicopters, but unfortunately the woman that owns MD has destroyed that company. Nobody is buying MD's like they are buying A-stars. It's just a better product overall with a stronger engine. I'll give you that the MD's handle like a true sports car though. Especially the two bladed tail rotor models (e's IIRC). All the BLOWtars (notars) aka: 600 series sucked beyond belief!!!!!! .... and they still do!

The Eurocopter is the envey of law enforcemet across the nation. Departments only buy other brands because they can't afford a B2 or B3 A-Star. :eek::eek::eek:

Ron-Solo
07-25-2011, 11:33 PM
Heh......I rode around in a Hughes 300C (and sometimes a B model) "back in the days" if you know what I mean. A 4 cylinder flying Volkswagen.......but it never let us down and nothing ever out ran us.

Tacit Blue
07-25-2011, 11:36 PM
The San Diego Sheriff's is one of Dept's that owns a 407, they hate it too. Most pilots fly the MD500, MD530 and they have UH-1's. I would consider them far from not being able to afford a ' Astar'.

Can't get a astar into a confined area like this can you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehd0XprdSd8


The most maneuverable that i know of, is the German B0105. Watch this video, and this will be self explanatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oXRBt-fLv0

Having the B3 model of the Astar, is really only meant for high altitude ops. Because of the altitude density issue obviously. But if your constantly pulling pitch, and need extra power for pursuits then naturally that would be a great feature to have.

But nothing that a B2 couldn't handle already, along with a 407. The only thing usually outruns a Helo is a sport bike, like a Yamaha R-1 or a 750.


http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/gallery_WideAngle.jpg

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/gallery_SED.jpg

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/gallery_Hangar.jpg

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/Gene.jpg

HarrisonS004
07-25-2011, 11:55 PM
The San Diego Sheriff's is one of Dept's that owns a 407, they hate it too. Most pilots fly the MD500, MD530 and they have UH-1's. I would consider them far from not being able to afford a ' Astar'.

Can't get a astar into a confined area like this can you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehd0XprdSd8


The most maneuverable that i know of, is the German B0105. Watch this video, and this will be self explanatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oXRBt-fLv0

Having the B3 model of the Astar, is really only meant for high altitude ops. Because of the altitude density issue obviously. But if your constantly pulling pitch, and need extra power for pursuits then naturally that would be a great feature to have.

But nothing that a B2 couldn't handle already, along with a 407. The only thing usually outruns a Helo is a sport bike, like a Yamaha R-1 or a 750.




Wow that video of the German copter is insane! That is by far the craziest piloting I have seen. Thanks for sharing.

Tacit Blue
07-26-2011, 12:00 AM
Wow that video of the German copter is insane! That is by far the craziest piloting I have seen. Thanks for sharing.

The redbull chopper is the same kind, the pilot in that earlier video later on become one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGu45s1_QPU

TrailerparkTrash
07-26-2011, 12:41 AM
I would consider them far from not being able to afford a ' Astar'.

No, I'd say they couldn't afford something like a new 4.2 million dollar B2's with a Chelton glass cockpit....

Having the B3 model of the Astar, is really only meant for high altitude ops. Because of the altitude density issue obviously. But if your constantly pulling pitch, and need extra power for pursuits then naturally that would be a great feature to have.

But nothing that a B2 couldn't handle already,
I agree 100 percent. In fact, Eurocopter says that below 5,000 MSL, there is no difference in performance between a B2 and a B3. We take our B2's up to 9,000' (above Mt. Baldy) for training all the time.

A couple of interesting facts: The A-Star B3 variant was the first helicopter to touch the summit of Mt. Everest. A B2 variant holds the world record for the highest summit human rescue. It was around 20,000' and I don't remember the exact altitude.

As far as long line goes, an Astar can get close too, but why that close? Ever hear of risk vs. reward? But that's really another topic for another thread. If that 500's engine quit, the pilot was facing the wrong way. He needs to face parallel to the hill in order to point that sucker down the valley if the engine quit. That's one reason it's called "LONG line." You drop a LOOOONG line down to give the aircraft a slight advantage in case the pilot has to drop suddenly down the mountain.

In that video, it almost looks like they needed the guy's belt to load up since the helo had to get so darn close to the hill slope.

TrailerparkTrash
07-26-2011, 12:45 AM
The redbull chopper is the same kind, the pilot in that earlier video later on become one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGu45s1_QPU
Ever see the modifications that were done on the Red Bull helicopter to get it to do what it does? The rotor hub and blades were really modified and it cost boo-koo $$$$$

zrock
07-26-2011, 5:23 AM
What , i did'nt know you guys would post pictures . Let see some more.

Are those 407's ?

Tacit Blue
07-26-2011, 10:47 AM
What , i did'nt know you guys would post pictures . Let see some more.

Are those 407's ?


Here's the 407 and more pics.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/DSC0070.jpg


205/UH-1 It's used for rescue operations and fire suppression.


http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/Picture%20080.jpg

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/Witchfire10.jpg

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/HoistSterner.bmp

http://www.sdsheriff.net/astrea/Images/HorseFire4Dan006.jpg

Tacit Blue
07-26-2011, 11:16 AM
No, I'd say they couldn't afford something like a new 4.2 million dollar B2's with a Chelton glass cockpit....


I agree 100 percent. In fact, Eurocopter says that below 5,000 MSL, there is no difference in performance between a B2 and a B3. We take our B2's up to 9,000' (above Mt. Baldy) for training all the time.

A couple of interesting facts: The A-Star B3 variant was the first helicopter to touch the summit of Mt. Everest. A B2 variant holds the world record for the highest summit human rescue. It was around 20,000' and I don't remember the exact altitude.

As far as long line goes, an Astar can get close too, but why that close? Ever hear of risk vs. reward? But that's really another topic for another thread. If that 500's engine quit, the pilot was facing the wrong way. He needs to face parallel to the hill in order to point that sucker down the valley if the engine quit. That's one reason it's called "LONG line." You drop a LOOOONG line down to give the aircraft a slight advantage in case the pilot has to drop suddenly down the mountain.

In that video, it almost looks like they needed the guy's belt to load up since the helo had to get so darn close to the hill slope.


Sounds like you work for SBSD? They have one of the largest fleets of Astar 350 B3's. The B3 is very popular with Heli skiing and high altitude ops, like i mentioned before. Overall i'm starting to agree with you, it is a great chopper. I've had the pleasure of riding in a Astar A350 B2 in Hawaii, very smooth ride... The interior noise isn't too loud either... The B3 version uses FADEC over the B2 which is nice also..

Most of the time i've logged in helo's has been the R44's and R22's, I was trying to get onto a MD500. But it went down on Catalina Island, had a wire strike destroying the whole bird.. Another nice helo from Eurocopter is the EC120.

The whole 'negative G' push over is of concern, but most Pilot's try to avoid striking the rotors against the tail boom. Supposedly you said a Astar can avoid that issue, due to the rotor design. Bo105 uses a solid hinge less system, that's why its so maneuverable. So it wouldn't surprise me, if the Astar could do that also..

SVT-40
07-26-2011, 11:51 AM
From "back in the day". Great memories...


"big bird"
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/SVT-40/Scans%20%20Photos%20ect/untitledimpact-helio-01-3.jpg

"Little bird"
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w201/SVT-40/Scans%20%20Photos%20ect/doc089-1.jpg

copter976
07-26-2011, 1:35 PM
A B2 variant holds the world record for the highest summit human rescue. It was around 20,000' and I don't remember the exact altitude.

It was right around 23,000 if memory serves me correct...

TrailerparkTrash
07-26-2011, 5:08 PM
Sounds like you work for SBSD?
No, I don't work for SBSD. However, I do know that SBSD has only 5 or 6 A-stars B3 models. I just spoke with one of their pilots about 3 months ago and he told me. I can't remember now off the top of my head how many they actually have. We have 15 B2's and 12 of them are brand new!!!! Still waiting if we're getting the option to buy two additional models. You know how it is when money is tight... :D:D:D

...Another nice helo from Eurocopter is the EC120.
I've never piloted an EC 120 but I know the two SBSD had, they hated for patrol. Slugish, no power.... Great helicopter for tours or maybe air ambulance, but not for LE patrol.

Same goes with an EC 130 series, which i have piloted. Long Beach PD has two of them and they are dawwwwgs for patrol when compared to an A-star or even a MD500. The 130's are Big flying bubbles that are great for Hawaiian island tours, but that's it. They're like driving a Ford Econoline van vs. a Corvette that can hug corners etc....

Some of the guys that are honest there say the 130 sucks big time for LE patrol missions. I think other guys with flying egos would never put down their 130's just "because." But now they got two A-stars in their fleet and they are learning how to fly them, so it doesnt' really matter.

The whole 'negative G' push over is of concern, but most Pilot's try to avoid striking the rotors against the tail boom. Supposedly you said a Astar can avoid that issue, due to the rotor design.
Yes, negative G's is NOT an issue with an A-Star. You can go negative G's up to.... -1.8 or -2 g's if I recall correctly, without it considered an "acrobatic" manueuver by the manufacturer. Either way, you do float in your pants.... hahahahaaha.... I should know that number, but I don't do negative g's if I can help it. I too trained in a teetering rotor system and the habit of avoiding it just carried down to the Astars now. A little bit won't hurt in the long run and the ability to be able to do so does help when one is maneuvering quickly during a wild pursuit with lots of turns etc....

Tacit Blue
07-28-2011, 1:49 AM
No, I don't work for SBSD. However, I do know that SBSD has only 5 or 6 A-stars B3 models. I just spoke with one of their pilots about 3 months ago and he told me. I can't remember now off the top of my head how many they actually have. We have 15 B2's and 12 of them are brand new!!!! Still waiting if we're getting the option to buy two additional models. You know how it is when money is tight... :D:D:D


I've never piloted an EC 120 but I know the two SBSD had, they hated for patrol. Slugish, no power.... Great helicopter for tours or maybe air ambulance, but not for LE patrol.

Same goes with an EC 130 series, which i have piloted. Long Beach PD has two of them and they are dawwwwgs for patrol when compared to an A-star or even a MD500. The 130's are Big flying bubbles that are great for Hawaiian island tours, but that's it. They're like driving a Ford Econoline van vs. a Corvette that can hug corners etc....

Some of the guys that are honest there say the 130 sucks big time for LE patrol missions. I think other guys with flying egos would never put down their 130's just "because." But now they got two A-stars in their fleet and they are learning how to fly them, so it doesnt' really matter.


Yes, negative G's is NOT an issue with an A-Star. You can go negative G's up to.... -1.8 or -2 g's if I recall correctly, without it considered an "acrobatic" manueuver by the manufacturer. Either way, you do float in your pants.... hahahahaaha.... I should know that number, but I don't do negative g's if I can help it. I too trained in a teetering rotor system and the habit of avoiding it just carried down to the Astars now. A little bit won't hurt in the long run and the ability to be able to do so does help when one is maneuvering quickly during a wild pursuit with lots of turns etc....

I will leave this thread with this video for you: :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0zBb0NAfus

TrailerparkTrash
07-28-2011, 11:40 AM
Tactit,,

That was a good video! Thanks for posting it! It sure did bring back memories and the video is true!!! Some highlights I chuckled at:

-FSS on speed dial!
-down right broke because it's an expensive profession!!!
-wires (aka: "helicopter spider webs")
-alcohol & FAR/AIM manual
-Height/velocity curve
-did I already mention being "broke?" hahahahaha.


That was cool and sooooo true!!!
:D:D:D

BigDogatPlay
07-28-2011, 11:51 AM
First helicopter I ever flew in, at about age 10, was a Hughes 300. Started a life long passion for the machines. Damned expensive hobby to pursue though.... it would be far better for me to have someone pay me to fly them, but was never that fortunate.

FWIW, Sonoma County SO uses a Bell 407, call sign Henry 1 (http://henry1.com/). For the majority of the work they have to do, which is SAR, it's been a solid and stable platform. It's used for patrol as well, but it's in the SAR role where the unit shines. Up until the divisional CHP birds based out of Napa recently started, Henry 1 was the only bird on the North Coast doing long line. I've worked on the ground with the Sonoma SO guys a few times and the crews are all nails. Since 1972 they've flown Bell 47 (lost in a crash), Hughes 500C (lost in a crash), Hughes 500D, Bell 206 and finally the 407.

MaHoTex
07-28-2011, 12:10 PM
Referencing Tacit's post above (#19)

Do they fly Helos from the right seat??? If so, I was not aware of that...

G-forceJunkie
07-28-2011, 12:36 PM
Typically thats the PIC. Backwards from fixedwings.Referencing Tacit's post above (#19)

Do they fly Helos from the right seat??? If so, I was not aware of that...

rdmmdr
07-28-2011, 12:56 PM
Helo flight pattern is normally reversed from fixed wing that is why the right seat.

CessnaDriver
07-28-2011, 1:01 PM
Typically thats the PIC. Backwards from fixedwings.


Lot of stories why that is I've heard over the years.

TrailerparkTrash
08-01-2011, 1:04 PM
Lot of stories why that is I've heard over the years.
Actually, it all depends on the helicopter and the way it's "set up" for the crew/mission. On the MD500's, the pilot sits in the left seat (like traditional airplanes). On the Eurocopter A-star helicopters, the pilot sits in the right seat. On the Eurocopter EC-130's, the pilot sits in the left seat. On Balckhawks for the Army, the pilot-in-command sits in either the left or right seat.

There really is no set "rule" to where what side the pilot-in-command sits, as all helicopter configurations are different. When I say configuration, I am pertaining to equipment used by the aircrew and where it's located within the cockpit.

In a nut shell, the PIC of a helicopter can be on either the right or left side. :D

CessnaDriver
08-01-2011, 1:22 PM
I figure right would be easier to work the radios better with the left hand.
Can you let go of the cyclic? Do they have trim adjustments?

MaHoTex
08-01-2011, 1:42 PM
I always wanted to add the Helo to my flying, but there are two issues... Primarily lack of funds and second I am terrified of them. If the engine stops you are an accordian. At least in my little plane I can land on something that resembles and airport (street, golf course, field.) With a helo your option is what, straight down? The glide ratio is what 3:1 or 4:1. :eek: That window gets real narrow very fast.

Of course, this is from someone who has never flown a helo. I had no clue the PIC is opposite of the fixed wing. Man, those chopper guys just have to do everything different. ;)

CessnaDriver
08-01-2011, 1:47 PM
As I understand it, given enough altitude, lose power and auto-rotation makes for a safe landing. I see it practiced often anyways.

Tacit Blue
08-01-2011, 1:54 PM
I always wanted to add the Helo to my flying, but there are two issues... Primarily lack of funds and second I am terrified of them. If the engine stops you are an accordian. At least in my little plane I can land on something that resembles and airport (street, golf course, field.) With a helo your option is what, straight down? The glide ratio is what 3:1 or 4:1. :eek: That window gets real narrow very fast.

Of course, this is from someone who has never flown a helo. I had no clue the PIC is opposite of the fixed wing. Man, those chopper guys just have to do everything different. ;)


Actually Helicopters have more options for emergency landings than fixed wing. The helicopters rotor blades are connected to a ' free wheeling transmission' so as long as you still have a decent amount of rotor rpm, you can do the same thing a leaf does falling from a tree. Basically you build up rotor rpm's by using neutral pitch on the blades, which increases the speed or rpm. And at the last minute pull the collective all the way up, which produces lift to soften your landing... However, this can only be done within a height velocity diagram curve, known as a the ' dead mans curve'..

MaHoTex
08-01-2011, 2:47 PM
Actually Helicopters have more options for emergency landings than fixed wing. The helicopters rotor blades are connected to a ' free wheeling transmission' so as long as you still have a decent amount of rotor rpm, you can do the same thing a leaf does falling from a tree. Basically you build up rotor rpm's by using neutral pitch on the blades, which increases the speed or rpm. And at the last minute pull the collective all the way up, which produces lift to soften your landing... However, this can only be done within a height velocity diagram curve, known as a the ' dead mans curve'..

Dead mans curve? That is a comforting name for it... hahaha... :D

TrailerparkTrash
08-01-2011, 6:21 PM
I figure right would be easier to work the radios better with the left hand.
Can you let go of the cyclic? Do they have trim adjustments?

Great question. No, there is no trim adjustment in a helicopter. Although, I'll admit I'm not too sure of the very large helicopters like a CH-53 etc... There is something called "friction" on both a collective and a cyclic. I keep the cyclic "friction" at very very light setting. THis allows me that in the rare event my hand slips off the cycle, the cyclic will remain motionless in it's currect possition. Otherwise if the cyclic "friction" is completely off, if my hand came off the cyclic, it would literally fall to one side and the helicopter would instantly roll over in flight in less than a half second!!!! (Read: VERY BAD!!!!) So, a little bit of "friction" on the cyclic is good. You must keep your right hand on the cyclic at all times.

For the collective in the left hand, some helicopters require your hand on there at all times. Many helicopters also have a manual throttle on the collective too. With A-stars (what I fly), there is no throttle control on the collective. In flight steady flight, it's perfectly safe to remove one's left hand from the cyclic if no power setting changes are required. Most helo's however, require your hand to be on the collective as well as the cyclic.

TrailerparkTrash
08-01-2011, 6:27 PM
Dead mans curve? That is a comforting name for it... hahaha... :D

Many people don't realize that the "height velocity curve" pertains to a high power setting during TAKE OFF. Most height velocity curves show that the absolute minimum height below 500' AGL is 60 or 65 knots indicated air speed.

For A-stars, the height velocity curve only pertains to a "take off" configuration, but most pilots don't realize that because they are not trained that way. During take off/climb out, that requires a high power setting and increased angle of attack with the rotor blades.

If the helicopter is in a low power setting, (straight and level, slow speed) with a decreased angle of attack, the height velocity diagram doesn't actually pertain to the aircrafts situation below 500' AGL. The problem arises with most flight schools teaching that "when you're below 500' agl, make sure your speeds correspond within the HV diagram requirements." A false belief.

That being said, Ill give you the truth that obey an aircraft's height velocity diagrams recomendations of air speed + altitude are your safest bets to stay alive in the event of an engine failure.

Actually Helicopters have more options for emergency landings than fixed wing. The helicopters rotor blades are connected to a ' free wheeling transmission' so as long as you still have a decent amount of rotor rpm, you can do the same thing a leaf does falling from a tree. Basically you build up rotor rpm's by using neutral pitch on the blades, which increases the speed or rpm. And at the last minute pull the collective all the way up, which produces lift to soften your landing...
This part of Tactic's statement is 100% true!!!! I'm also a licensed fixed wing pilot. If there is an engine failure, give me a helicopter ANY DAY vs. and airplane! An airplane, you need a long runway to land in an emergency. For a helicopter, you only need a "postage stamp" to land on.

Tacit Blue
08-01-2011, 6:53 PM
Many people don't realize that the "height velocity curve" pertains to a high power setting during TAKE OFF. Most height velocity curves show that the absolute minimum height below 500' AGL is 60 or 65 knots indicated air speed.

For A-stars, the height velocity curve only pertains to a "take off" configuration, but most pilots don't realize that because they are not trained that way. During take off/climb out, that requires a high power setting and increased angle of attack with the rotor blades.

If the helicopter is in a low power setting, (straight and level, slow speed) with a decreased angle of attack, the height velocity diagram doesn't actually pertain to the aircrafts situation below 500' AGL. The problem arises with most flight schools teaching that "when you're below 500' agl, make sure your speeds correspond within the HV diagram requirements." A false belief.

That being said, Ill give you the truth that obey an aircraft's height velocity diagrams recomendations of air speed + altitude are your safest bets to stay alive in the event of an engine failure.


This part of Tactic's statement is 100% true!!!! I'm also a licensed fixed wing pilot. If there is an engine failure, give me a helicopter ANY DAY vs. and airplane! An airplane, you need a long runway to land in an emergency. For a helicopter, you only need a "postage stamp" to land on.

Fixed wing pilots , and most joe blows have this incorrect preconceived idea. That when the engine quits, the helicopter is SOL and you start falling like a brick towards the earth...... Which isn't true as i've demonstrated earlier.

Like you said, fixed wings you have to cognizant of air speed,attitude constantly in a power failure... If you have a emergency airport destination in mind... Otherwise you'll have to put it down anywhere that resembles a runway, before you enter a stall.. And basically fall out of the sky...

I remember the first time i did a auto-rotation, the instructor played a joke on me. And he started panicking and saying " Our engine quit were going to do a full down auto" So here i am holding tight, as we start descending from 1,000' AGL. To a small confined area on a Mountain side, i kept looking outside and inside the cockpit at the VSI ( Vertical speed indicator) and it kept going counter clock wise!! Hear the low rotor rpm horn go off , as the blades slow down. Then we entered into into a decent. Last minute he pulls the collective way the up with aft cyclic.... Skids touch down and he has a giant smile on his face:D.

That feeeling scares the crap out of you, you feel your stomach go weightless and you hear the sound of air rushing all around! Then the ground keeps coming at you fast!

jmlivingston
08-01-2011, 7:08 PM
I was a flight-medic at Ft. Jackson for several years, flying in back of a UH-1. One of our pilot teams decided to do an auto-rotation from about 1,500' without telling the crewchief and I in advance, puckerfactor was a +10! :eek::eek: Our only auto-rotations with actual touchdowns was done from about 5-10 feet, airframe restrictions at the time wouldn't allow them to do it from altitude. Did a lot of sling-load at the time, as well as NOE which was most fun at night with NVG's and the doors pinned open. Ahhh..... the good old days, someday I hope to fly in a Huey again.


One of our pilots used to talk about how we had a better glide ratio than some of the small single engine planes (can't remember if it was a Cessna or a Cherokee).

MaHoTex
08-01-2011, 9:20 PM
Many people don't realize that the "height velocity curve" pertains to a high power setting during TAKE OFF. Most height velocity curves show that the absolute minimum height below 500' AGL is 60 or 65 knots indicated air speed.

For A-stars, the height velocity curve only pertains to a "take off" configuration, but most pilots don't realize that because they are not trained that way. During take off/climb out, that requires a high power setting and increased angle of attack with the rotor blades.

If the helicopter is in a low power setting, (straight and level, slow speed) with a decreased angle of attack, the height velocity diagram doesn't actually pertain to the aircrafts situation below 500' AGL. The problem arises with most flight schools teaching that "when you're below 500' agl, make sure your speeds correspond within the HV diagram requirements." A false belief.

That being said, Ill give you the truth that obey an aircraft's height velocity diagrams recomendations of air speed + altitude are your safest bets to stay alive in the event of an engine failure.


This part of Tactic's statement is 100% true!!!! I'm also a licensed fixed wing pilot. If there is an engine failure, give me a helicopter ANY DAY vs. and airplane! An airplane, you need a long runway to land in an emergency. For a helicopter, you only need a "postage stamp" to land on.

I am stunned. :eek: Not that you said Tacit is right, :D , but that you would take a Helo engine out over a fixed wing. I guess I have a fear of the unknown and I am comfortable with the fixed wing method. Maybe if I had the opportunity to try out a helo my opinion would change. Now, if I could just make myself climb in. :cool:

CessnaDriver
08-01-2011, 9:44 PM
I am stunned. :eek: Not that you said Tacit is right, :D , but that you would take a Helo engine out over a fixed wing. I guess I have a fear of the unknown and I am comfortable with the fixed wing method. Maybe if I had the opportunity to try out a helo my opinion would change. Now, if I could just make myself climb in. :cool:


They're just wings that spin. :p

MaHoTex
08-02-2011, 6:48 AM
I'll take my wings stationary and fixed to the fusalage, thank you very much. When my wings start moving we have real problems. :)

I am now thinking of that old joke about helicoptes being so ugly the earth pushes it away... However it goes.

TrailerparkTrash
08-02-2011, 9:54 AM
Or the saying that goes airplanes sail through the wind, but helicopters beat the wind into submission.

CessnaDriver
08-02-2011, 10:36 AM
Do they still have or refer to the "Jesus nut"?
Or has that gone the way of the dodo?

TrailerparkTrash
08-02-2011, 10:51 AM
Yup you stIll hear that term. Lol. Also they still use the term of "blew blades.". Thats a condition when the rotor RPM s exceed their operating velocity and "one blade blows this way and the other blows that way.".

Tacit Blue
08-02-2011, 11:43 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/USCG_helicopter_propeller_animation.gifhttp://fundrips.smashingbug.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Navy_SEAL_helicopter.gif

http://www.gif-picture.com/H/helicopter/gif-pict-helicopter-12.gif


I love Gif's. :)

NOTARPilot
08-08-2011, 2:00 AM
Sounds like you work for SBSD? ..

I'm guessing LASD judging by his hatred for the NOTAR ;)

No, there is no trim adjustment in a helicopter.

Not exactly true...the 500's have an electric cyclic trim as do the 300's. You can trim the forces to neutral and the ship will fly pretty damn straight. As long as the collective bungee system in the 500 is adjusted properly you can let go of that as well and maintain altitude....not that I recommend just taking your hands off the controls of course.:D

TrailerparkTrash
08-08-2011, 6:52 AM
We call notars, blowtars. Had 'em, didnt like 'em. No power, less response on the controls. I personally dont think that the trim in a 500/520 series is like the trim on a fixed wing aircraft, where one can take yours hands completely off of the controls and fly with the trim.
As long as the collective bungee system in the 500 is adjusted properly you can let go of that as well and maintain altitude
"Bungee system",,,, Rubber band for trim control???? No thanks. Some helicopters do however have a true auto pilot system :)

I'm guessing LASD judging by his hatred for the NOTAR
Up until this very posting on this thread, I don't believe I ever said that I hate the blow... NOTARS. I don't know, maybe I need to go back and re-read my replys to this particular thread. At the moment, I'm just feeling too lazy to do so. I really don't care for NOTARS, but I don't think I ever said I "hated" them. I like my power steering in the form of hydraulics for both anti-torque, as well as cyclic input on the A-stars. I love the 500's with a real (two bladed) tail rotor, but don't ever want to set foot in a NOTAR ever again.

As for whom I'm employed with..... I have never officially stated that either. Some things on the internet are just meant to be kept below the radar. (Pun intended on that one!) :D:D:D

thunderbolt
08-08-2011, 7:29 AM
I'll third Trailers statement: "If there is an engine failure, give me a helicopter ANY DAY vs. and airplane!" For that really feel like your falling out of the sky feeling try a lo-speed auto. I swear I felt like my tail was pointing straight south. Got my rotorcraft commercial last year (still looking for a ride) and now I'm casually working on a fixed wing add-on and all I can say is after crawling around the rocks of SD in the Schweizer, flying a Piper is as boring as driving a car.

If you really need to you can juggle the cyclic into your left hand and friction up the collective. Off hand flying comes in handy when you need to reach that fire extinguisher.

thunderbolt
08-08-2011, 7:33 AM
Here's a little something you might find amusing in the battle between rotorheads and starchwingers: (I didn't write it)

How Fast Can You Fly Backward?
Or Why Helicopter Pilots are Superior

This has been a serious debate for quite some time with battle lines well drawn and the debate field hot, furious, and emotional. Obviously, the heat of the debate and the surety of the participants are directly proportional to the amount of liquid intelligence that has been consumed. Nevertheless, this humble observer will present the evidence that clearly proves helicopter pilots are, as a matter of fact, the most superior pilots in the aviation community.

First, let's talk about the numbers. Airplanes have a lot of numbers, V1, V2, VTOSS, MMO, the figures many civilian helicopter operations emulate. However, while helicopter pilots try to operate "by the numbers", the operating environment often precludes such a luxury. The 757 pilot is, "going to come over the fence at Vref+15k" or some other such number like that. Meanwhile, the helicopter lands on a rig, perhaps with a 30 knot head wind, a 15 knot crosswind, or maybe he has to land in a remote area with no wind... and he will LAND AT 0 KNOTS GROUNDSPEED! If you know anything about aerodynamics, I shouldn't have to say anything else - the safety of the numbers does not always grace the helicopter pilot therefore, they need special skill to compensate when the numbers are not even applicable. The rotorhead may be landing at 40 knots IAS or 0 knots... airplane safety margins are all off!

Not convinced, let's talk operating environment. It would be nice to be able to land on a flat piece of paved real estate that was 200 feet wide and 8000 feet long, for every landing; but for helicopter pilots, that's the exception rather than the rule (We are even told to "avoid the flow" of the starch wingers lest we upset their "numbers.")

Helicopter pilots are called to land on small offshore platforms, smaller shipboard platforms (that can be bobbing and weaving like Mike Tyson), rooftops, forests, jungles, and next to highways at night to pick up the injured. This is a VFR (Visual Flight Rules) operation that would make most airplane pilots cringe. This goes beyond those fixed wingers who call themselves "bush pilots." Helicopter pilots are the true Bush Pilots - they land and takeoff in the midst of the bushes!

To this, the helicopter pilot adds all the stuff the corporate or 121 operator does. They operate in dense airspace, fly instrument approaches, operate at busy airports, and fly in severe weather - often without the help of a four-axis autopilot with "autotrim." (In fact, the only autopilot may be control friction... and any objective dual-rated pilots will confess the helicopter is quite a bit more difficult to fly on the gauges!)

At this point I have to interject for the prima Donna part 91 operators in their Citation X's, Gulfstreams, and Falcon 50's. Yes Veronica, there are a lot of helicopters with color radar, multiple MFDs, EFIS, digital fuel controls, 4 axis autopilots, and all the other goodies, so don't go there! We can operate your fancy equipment as well!

I'm not done - what about workload? The helicopter pilot is normally the "company man" on the job. Therefore, they must not only be able to fly the aircraft, they have to be the local PR man with the customer, often solving the customer's problems so the aircraft is used the most efficiently. The helicopter pilot might have to arrange for his own fuel and even refuel his own aircraft. He checks the landing sites, trains people how to work around helicopters without getting injured, and makes sure the aircraft does not disturb Grandma Bessie's chickens!

But wait, like the Ginsu knife, "there's more!" The rotor-head does it all. He does all the pre-flight planning, submits the flight plan, prepares all the paperwork including the weight and balance, loads and briefs the passengers, loads cargo, and after landing takes care of the unloading and finally arranges for their own transportation and room. This is often interspersed by telephone calls to some company weenie that changes plans and expectations every hour.

Finally, the all important question, "What about control touch?" I want to shut up all the hotshot fighter pilots. I've been in their aircraft and they have been in mine... I could fly theirs but they were all over the sky in mine! So then, Mr. Starch Winger; when you see a Hughes 500 or Bell 206 pilot hold one skid on a 5000' knife edge ridge that is only two feet wide so passengers can step out onto the ridge, while the other skid is suspended in space... when you watch a Skycrane, Vertol, S61, 212, or 214B pilot place a hook, that's on a cable 200 feet below the aircraft, in the hand of a ground crewman... when you see a Lama, AStar, or Bell 206L land in a space in the trees that's scarcely bigger than the helicopter... and if you ever watch a BK 117, 105, or A109 pilot land in a vacant lot next to a busy freeway surrounded by power lines -at night... Well then, you'll have some idea who is the master manipulator of aviation equipment.

The bottom line is; if all you want is to get into the air, find a Cessna, Beech, F-16, or 757. However, if you want to truly fly, to be an artisan in aviation and develop a bird-like control touch; then, you want to be a helicopter pilot. After all, a rock would probably fly if you made it go 180 knots. The real question for our fixed wing brethren should be, "How fast can you fly backward?"

jmlivingston
08-08-2011, 8:57 PM
Here's a little something you might find amusing in the battle between rotorheads and starchwingers: (I didn't write it)

How Fast Can You Fly Backward?
Or Why Helicopter Pilots are Superior



I'm not done - what about workload? The helicopter pilot is normally the "company man" on the job. Therefore, they must not only be able to fly the aircraft, they have to be the local PR man with the customer, often solving the customer's problems so the aircraft is used the most efficiently. The helicopter pilot might have to arrange for his own fuel and even refuel his own aircraft. He checks the landing sites, trains people how to work around helicopters without getting injured, and makes sure the aircraft does not disturb Grandma Bessie's chickens!



This one reminds me of a flight from Traverse City, MI to Columbia, SC while relocating our bird back home after doing some medical support for a month in Michigan. Our pilots ended up landing in a field full of cows for an urgent "tail boom check". When the rancher showed up he was none too happy about it! Anyways, the crew was "much relieved" after successfull completion of the tail boom check. ;) The rancher didn't have much to say after a BS story about a critical oil sample necessary after an **EXACT** amount of engine time.