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cdtx2001
07-22-2011, 7:34 PM
A friend of mine wants to buy a tactical stock for his registered AK. The salesperson said that they couldn't ship it to CA and also he'd have to change his trigger group if he wanted to put it on. I told my friend that sounded like FUD and he should just buy it from someone else.

My question... If someone has a registered AW in CA are they supposed to keep it original or can they do whatever modifications they want to it? By modifications I mean anything that would NOT trigger federal AW status (SBR, FA, etc.).

Thanks for the input.

Saigon1965
07-22-2011, 7:40 PM
Anything flies with reg AW - That sales person is thinking of 922r compliance -

cdtx2001
07-22-2011, 7:44 PM
Anything flies with reg AW - That sales person is thinking of 922r compliance -

That's kinda what I was thinking too. 922r compliance doesn't matter in this case since he bought the rifle complete long ago and registered it, he didn't build it from a kit.

Quiet
07-22-2011, 8:09 PM
That's kinda what I was thinking too. 922r compliance doesn't matter in this case since he bought the rifle complete long ago and registered it, he didn't build it from a kit.
922r also effects (post-1989) imported semi-auto centerfire rifles and imported shotguns.
If you modify it out of it's imported sporting configuration, 922r comes into play.

Cokebottle
07-22-2011, 8:13 PM
And if it's a registered AK, chances are it's either already compliant (since it was non-sporting when registered), or is exempt.

As for the dealer... let me guess.... Cheaper than Dirt or Sportsman's Guide?

They're notorious for refusing to ship any "evil features" to California.
CTD won't even ship an M1 bayonet.

Saigon1965
07-22-2011, 8:20 PM
That bayo is bad joo joo -

cdtx2001
07-23-2011, 9:08 AM
That bayo is bad joo joo -

Seriously, when was the last time anyone heard on the news "... after the shooter ran out of bullets, he then began running around stabbing everyone with a bayonet...." A bayonet is just another knife IMHO.

Back to the topic, thanks for the help and I'll let my buddy know to go buy from someone else.

bwiese
07-24-2011, 3:55 AM
A friend of mine wants to buy a tactical stock for his registered AK.
The salesperson said that they couldn't ship it to CA and also he'd
have to change his trigger group if he wanted to put it on. I told my
friend that sounded like FUD and he should just buy it from someone
else.


For purposes of discussion here I assume "registered AK" means he has an AK-pattern rifle specially registered as CA assault weapon [as opposed to
just 4473'd/DROSd, which some people misinfer as AW registration.]

Rifle stocks are generally unbanned in CA and can generally be freely shipped into CA; it's up to the purchaser to install/apply it properly.

[The only stock that's prohibited from being shipped into CA is the SlideFire SSAR15 stock, because it's a separately & intrinsically prohibited multiburst trigger activator under 12020(c)(23) - and its banning does not depend on any relation with a a gun or a specific gun configuration.]

So the prohibition the FFL mentions on shipping is pure FUD.

His other remark about 'changing the trigger group' is really a broader reference to Fed law about 18 USC 922(r) / 27 CFR 478.39 regarding domestic parts content and the "10 or less key foreign parts" game.



If someone has a registered AW in CA are they supposed to keep
it original or can they do whatever modifications they want to it?
By modifications I mean anything that would NOT trigger federal
AW status (SBR, FA, etc.).Um, there is no such thing as "Federal AW status" - that categorization expired in Sept 2004. "NFA-related" more properly refers to SBR, FA, etc. Federal categories (and which are also similarly but separately codified in California gun law as well).

If you have a California reg'd AW you are free to configure it INTO ANY OTHER LEGAL STATUS, which means both CA and FEDERAL law MUST be followed.

The Calif AW registration did not 'freeze' any configuration or parameter of the rifle other than the make, model, serial# and association with a given owner. [Even though the AW registration form completed for Roberti-Roos or SB23 registration asked about calibers and barrel lengths, these items are merely supplemental identifying information that is nonrestrictive.]

Someone trying to, say, remove a "butthole stock" from their AK which is a reg'd CA AW would indeed need to ensure Fed "922(r)" compliance - i.e, add or change out enough parts such that there are 10 or less key foreign parts. Guys installing 'compliance parts' on their AKs would typically change out hammer, trigger, sear, stock, pistol grip, handguard to US mfg'd versions so as to reduce the foreign parts count

Also, overall length issues should still be dealt with with care despite CA AW registration. While Fed law allows 26" overall rifle length to be measured with a stock open, the [I]Rooney case in CA drives rifle overall length to be measured with stock *closed*. If too short, per Rooney a gun could be a Federally legal long gun yet be an illegal CA SBR - and AW registration is irrelevant here.

ccmc
07-24-2011, 6:24 AM
For purposes of discussion here I assume "registered AK" means he has an AK-pattern rifle specially registered as CA assault weapon [as opposed to
just 4473'd/DROSd, which some people misinfer as AW registration.]

Rifle stocks are generally unbanned in CA and can generally be freely shipped into CA; it's up to the purchaser to install/apply it properly.

[The only stock that's prohibited from being shipped into CA is the SlideFire SSAR15 stock, because it's a separately & intrinsically prohibited multiburst trigger activator under 12020(c)(23) - and its banning does not depend on any relation with a a gun or a specific gun configuration.]

So the prohibition the FFL mentions on shipping is pure FUD.

His other remark about 'changing the trigger group' is really a broader reference to Fed law about 18 USC 922(r) / 27 CFR 478.39 regarding domestic parts content and the "10 or less key foreign parts" game.


Um, there is no such thing as "Federal AW status" - that categorization expired in Sept 2004. "NFA-related" more properly refers to SBR, FA, etc. Federal categories (and which are also similarly but separately codified in California gun law as well).

If you have a California reg'd AW you are free to configure it INTO ANY OTHER LEGAL STATUS, which means both CA and FEDERAL law MUST be followed.

The Calif AW registration did not 'freeze' any configuration or parameter of the rifle other than the make, model, serial# and association with a given owner. [Even though the AW registration form completed for Roberti-Roos or SB23 registration asked about calibers and barrel lengths, these items are merely supplemental identifying information that is nonrestrictive.]

Someone trying to, say, remove a "butthole stock" from their AK which is a reg'd CA AW would indeed need to ensure Fed "922(r)" compliance - i.e, add or change out enough parts such that there are 10 or less key foreign parts. Guys installing 'compliance parts' on their AKs would typically change out hammer, trigger, sear, stock, pistol grip, handguard to US mfg'd versions so as to reduce the foreign parts count

Also, overall length issues should still be dealt with with care despite CA AW registration. While Fed law allows 26" overall rifle length to be measured with a stock open, the [I]Rooney case in CA drives rifle overall length to be measured with stock *closed*. If too short, per Rooney a gun could be a Federally legal long gun yet be an illegal CA SBR - and AW registration is irrelevant here.

Good explanation of why some companies just don't want the bother of shipping any so-called AW parts to California. More revenue isn't always worth the extra hassle. Not saying it's right or wrong. I've got a friend with a parts distribution business. He won't ship to or accept POs with a California address. Something to do with the way Sacramento computes taxes that out of state firms that do business in California have to pay.

Sailormilan2
07-24-2011, 6:45 AM
I recently had contact with the Martin B Retting company in the Southland about a Polytech M14S that they had for auction. They advertised that it was not for sale in Ca, so I sent an email asking why, as Polytechs are legal. It had no illegal features, other than a 20 rd magazine.
Their answer was that the previous owner had registered it as an AW, and since there was ambiguity with CA laws with regards to unregistering an AW, they were not selling it to CA residents.
They claimed that they had a license to sell AWs here in CA and were up on the laws, so they knew what they were doing. But then they had a Garand also up for auction and it was not for sale to CA residents either.
So, is there a method to unregister a registered AW? Especially if the rifle has none of the evil features?

bwiese
07-24-2011, 10:54 AM
So, is there a method to unregister a registered AW? Especially if the rifle has none of the evil features?

Yep. You can contact the DOJ BoF registration/permits unit and request AW deregistration by identifying the gun.

They will most likely ask you how it can be deregistered, what mods were done, etc.

THERE IS A SMALL BUT NON-ZERO CHANCE THAT THIS CAN LEAD TO AN ENCOUNTER WITH A DOJ AGENT VISITING YOU TO 'VERIFY' NON-AW STATUS before deregistration is grandted.

Also, god kills a fleet of kittens everytime a CA AW is de-registered or a legal hicap magazine is reduced to 10 rounds. Please keep CA AWs in CA and registered as such because we need the reg database to continue to be populated and show "AWs ain't that uncommon" - i.e, we don't want attrition (natural or otherwise) to work against us.