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View Full Version : Reed's guy takes dim view of OLLs


Aluisious
01-05-2007, 6:20 PM
So I go to Reed's range today to get a few rounds for my OLL for tomorrow. Nice high prices, but just enough to tide me over till I get a big ol shipment from somewhere less spendy. I'm chatting about how I'm happy to be playing with my new rifle, and one guy asks me how it's configured. I say, with a Prince50, and a pistol grip and flash hider.

He asks if the Prince50 is DOJ approved. We know it isn't. He then says he's on some "state AW board" and that my gun is "subject to confiscation."

I say a bit about how people have these things, and no one has gone to jail yet over it. A few confiscations have occured but nothing is prosecuted.

The guy murmers about "I know what the DOJ is doing" and "they're getting ready to do something about it."

Now...the regs say that if a tool is needed to detach the mag, it's OK. I didn't see anything about "DOJ approved" devices. He went on and on about welding and using power tools to remove but we know that's not in the law and I told him, which got "they can change it anytime." I was nice and left but come on...they can't just change regulations as they want. There are processes and he should know that.

As far as I'm concerned, my gun is only subject to illegal confiscation. What do y'all make of it?

Blue
01-05-2007, 6:22 PM
Everyone I've dealt with at Reeds is an idiot. Go somewhere else. I live 3 minutes from their range but choose to shoot at Target Masters because A:they're cheaper and B: they don't try and fill your head with BS.

Aluisious
01-05-2007, 6:24 PM
Reed's is nice because they learned my name and stuff, but they jacked up the prices there recently which kinda sucks. Besides, the kids working at Target Masters are my age, and that's fun.

bwiese
01-05-2007, 6:27 PM
That's Eric. Legend has it he's a friend of Iggy.

Aluisious
01-05-2007, 6:31 PM
He certainly gave me a surprisingly hard time considering I was buying ammo from him in a facility designed to shoot in.

Hell, there were AW parts sitting 6 feet away in a glass cabinet the whole time.

Rumpled
01-05-2007, 6:34 PM
Didn't somene also say that Reed's is selling bare T/C Contender frames?
Maybe DOJ would take a dim view of Reed's.

Blue
01-05-2007, 6:38 PM
Hell, there were AW parts sitting 6 feet away in a glass cabinet the whole time.


Yea and they get SUPER weird when you want to buy anything out of it.

Aluisious
01-05-2007, 6:40 PM
They have forward grips and collapsible stocks.

/ducks for cover

Them's felony accessories, son!

gn3hz3ku1*
01-05-2007, 6:50 PM
so this guy thinks he is the enforcer for DOJ just because he knows this iggy tard? damn commies

WokMaster1
01-05-2007, 6:51 PM
That's Eric. Legend has it he's a friend of Iggy.

OK, I admit.....Iggy's my grandfather! But i don't go around bragging.....!:D :D

j/k!

gn3hz3ku1*
01-05-2007, 6:51 PM
does anyone have the info on this iggy character? lets do a FOIA on him

Hopi
01-05-2007, 6:55 PM
does anyone have the info on this iggy character? lets do a FOIA on him

You must be new, welcome to the forum!

gn3hz3ku1*
01-05-2007, 7:03 PM
I just did a search.. got his bio from http://calgunlaws.com/Docs/ASSAULT%20WEAPONS/Cal%20Regulations/NRA-HuntPDecOfIgnatiusChinn061205.PDF

hoffmang
01-05-2007, 7:10 PM
Do a search for "mahogany hunter"

-Gene

hoffmang
01-05-2007, 8:13 PM
I and others have happily shot plenty of 5.56 OLLs at Jackson Arms.

-Gene

Heavy_Grinder
01-05-2007, 8:14 PM
He asks if the Prince50 is DOJ approved. We know it isn't. He then says he's on some "state AW board" and that my gun is "subject to confiscation."

I say a bit about how people have these things, and no one has gone to jail yet over it. A few confiscations have occured but nothing is prosecuted.

The guy murmers about "I know what the DOJ is doing" and "they're getting ready to do something about it."

I'm sick of these ignorant people. Next time, slap him in the face with one of those OLL flyers.

Fate
01-05-2007, 8:20 PM
Did you still buy the ammo or do the right thing and WALK?

6172crew
01-05-2007, 8:23 PM
I'm sick of these ignorant people. Next time, slap him in the face with one of those OLL flyers.
ROFLMAO.:D
What did the five fingas say to the face!

Aluisious
01-05-2007, 8:35 PM
Did you still buy the ammo or do the right thing and WALK?
I had already rung up the ammo. Really buying ammo there is a charity towards those guys, but WalMart was out and it was on the way home from work.

phish
01-05-2007, 8:36 PM
where's arfcom's b.s. smilies when you need them?

I have a vague feeling and idea of who you dealt with, he came across as an elitist tard the last time I was there months ago. :rolleyes:

fairfaxjim
01-05-2007, 10:59 PM
Did you still buy the ammo or do the right thing and WALK?
+1 on that! C'mon guys, we gotta start voting with our wallets on this stuff. Everytime someone in the gun business pulls this BS we gotta call them on it #1, cancel purchases there, and WRITE the owner/manager about why we aren't patronizing them anymore. If he wants to lose business by lying (or allowing goofy employees to lie), knowingly repeating DOJ outlandish BS, and otherwise being customer relations challenged, then let the idiot go bankrupt! The dealers need to know that customers aren't going to sit back and be BS's by those who want their business!!!

TonyM
01-05-2007, 11:11 PM
This is just why Reeds will never see another penny of my money.

Too much B.S. from idiot employees.

When I wanted a specific Browning safe, they had it, and I went there and checked it out. Then I drove to Merced to get it from the only other store that had it. It was worth the drive to not give them the business.

I would gladly pay more at a friendly store than deal with those bozos.

Mssr. Elegantť
01-06-2007, 12:57 AM
Next time you are there be sure to tell him you're father is a member of Governor Schwarzenegger's "Assault Weapons Law Clarification Working Committee". Ask him for the contact info for his "State Assault Weapons Board" so that your dad's committee can forward some important information to the "board".

Then ask him what the rest of the "board" thinks about Iggy getting arrested yesterday and when he acts surprised just say "They didn't tell you!?!?" and then "I'm sorry, but I probably shouldn't be talking about this with you."

Then just change the subject and ask him if the new ban on 9mm handgun ammo that Pelosi just signed today is going to affect their sales at all.

norbs007
01-06-2007, 1:01 AM
Everyone I've dealt with at Reeds is an idiot. Go somewhere else. I live 3 minutes from their range but choose to shoot at Target Masters because A:they're cheaper and B: they don't try and fill your head with BS.

Like he said.

thedrickel
01-06-2007, 1:04 AM
Next time you are there be sure to tell him you're father is a member of Governor Schwarzenegger's "Assault Weapons Law Clarification Working Committee". Ask him for the contact info for his "State Assault Weapons Board" so that your dad's committee can forward some important information to the "board".

Then ask him what the rest of the "board" thinks about Iggy getting arrested yesterday and when he acts surprised just say "They didn't tell you!?!?" and then "I'm sorry, but I probably shouldn't be talking about this with you."

Then just change the subject and ask him if the new ban on 9mm handgun ammo that Pelosi just signed today is going to affect their sales at all.

Now that's the spirit! Fight fire with fire.

pnkssbtz
01-06-2007, 1:21 AM
By the way, can whoever made that OLL .pdf update the info and I'll print 1,000 of them at my work when we have some un-used space on a print run?

Preferably 300dpi for the image...

(So we have something to hand out at events.)


Also I was at Turners and some guy was looking at the bushmaster ARs? (I think they were bushies with the plastic sealed mag wells) and the customer was lamenting about the mag well and I piped in on the OLL and the guy at the counter made some comment about "going to jail if you push the law" so I just shut up bought my bore snake and left.

Its hard to edumucate sheeple...

At least the people I've met at wallmart have been really cool and laid back so far.

tankerman
01-06-2007, 3:21 AM
This REEDS place sounds like it should be called EVAN'S NORTH.

M. Sage
01-06-2007, 7:12 AM
+1 on that! C'mon guys, we gotta start voting with our wallets on this stuff. Everytime someone in the gun business pulls this BS we gotta call them on it #1, cancel purchases there, and WRITE the owner/manager about why we aren't patronizing them anymore. If he wants to lose business by lying (or allowing goofy employees to lie), knowingly repeating DOJ outlandish BS, and otherwise being customer relations challenged, then let the idiot go bankrupt! The dealers need to know that customers aren't going to sit back and be BS's by those who want their business!!!

Hell yeah! If he's already rung your purchase up, just tell him "forget it" and cancel the purchase.

Buying ammo online is good. Good prices, and the selection is always better than any store could dream of.

luvtolean
01-06-2007, 7:14 AM
I liked Reed's because it was more convenient, and the range run more professional than Target Masters (which can get downright scary).

But the guys behind the counter have monster egos, and can be quite rude, to the point they made my GF uncomfortable when we'd shoot there. Add to the fact it (at least used to be) much more expensive than TM, and we drove across town...

xenophobe
01-06-2007, 9:26 AM
Wow... a bunch of people who have never been there saying how horrible Reeds is. Freaking hilarious.

Reeds Indoor is actually pretty decent, except for their prices which are on the high side, they do carry a lot of good gear that you can't find anywhere but online. They're great for "if you need it" type of moments, and their hours are decent. Most of the guys working at the range are decent to deal with. I've gone there a number of times and never had any problems. They're certainly better than National Shooting Club which used to be there.

Reeds on Alum Rock is a different subject altogether...

sobiloff
01-06-2007, 10:38 AM
I tend to agree with xenophobe; I haven't been subjected to any craziness or 'tude at Reed's the times I've gone there. In fact, I intend to take some pistol classes there in February. My only dislike of the place is that it's hard to scrounge my own brass for reloading on the popular days, but that's really no fault of the place or the people, is it? :)

Also, I can't blame store workers for not knowing the perfect gospel about OLLs, either. Yes, they should be pretty knowledgeable, but "AWs" are not everyone's big interest in life and the Reed's folks certainly don't see any being used at their range because of the backstop limitations. Instead of getting self-righteously indignant that a store employee doesn't immediately believe you, Joe Blow off the street, give them a handy copy of your OLL flyer and try to bring them around. We don't need more enemies, we need more friends.

Hopi
01-06-2007, 11:29 AM
I tend to agree with xenophobe; I haven't been subjected to any craziness or 'tude at Reed's the times I've gone there. In fact, I intend to take some pistol classes there in February. My only dislike of the place is that it's hard to scrounge my own brass for reloading on the popular days, but that's really no fault of the place or the people, is it? :)

Also, I can't blame store workers for not knowing the perfect gospel about OLLs, either. Yes, they should be pretty knowledgeable, but "AWs" are not everyone's big interest in life and the Reed's folks certainly don't see any being used at their range because of the backstop limitations. Instead of getting self-righteously indignant that a store employee doesn't immediately believe you, Joe Blow off the street, give them a handy copy of your OLL flyer and try to bring them around. We don't need more enemies, we need more friends.

4 posts, welcome to the forum!:)

I believe that if the following two statements were actually verbatim...

He then says he's on some "state AW board" and that my gun is "subject to confiscation."
and
"I know what the DOJ is doing" and "they're getting ready to do something about it."

then he is spreading misinformation which is dangerous, wrong, and bad business. From those statements, he does not sound like a friend of the 2nd amendment, he sounds like a coward who refuses to interrogate assumption.

And if this is true...
That's Eric. Legend has it he's a friend of Iggy. then i would stay far away from that place, knowing the shenanigans that guy consistently tries to pull.

I've never been there, and won't ever go, but he needs to be fluent on legal advice if he is going to be threatening people with it.

Edited to add:
give them a handy copy of your OLL flyer and try to bring them around
Yes, he needs to be given a flyer or two...

Aluisious
01-06-2007, 11:38 AM
Sounds like this Eric fellow has a history.

My quotations were pretty accurate regarding what he said, hence the quotation marks.

bwiese
01-06-2007, 12:02 PM
I have very reliable 2nd hand reports that Jackson Arms is the right place to shoot OLLs.

I have very reliable firsthand reports (myself!) that Jackson Arms lets folks shoot 223 rifles - I brought itn my reg'd ARs.

bonjing
01-06-2007, 3:10 PM
I have very reliable firsthand reports (myself!) that Jackson Arms lets folks shoot 223 rifles - I brought itn my reg'd ARs.

just be sure to bring your paper work for the reg'd stuff and make sure the oll's are configured correctly and your good to go.

Dont Tread on Me
01-06-2007, 3:22 PM
Reeds Indoor is actually pretty decent, except for their prices which are on the high side,

Totally agree. Great range. Great customer service. Prices all over the map. I just don't get my legal advice from them.

Eric the manager is certainly a personality but he is fair and has been great to me if I find something wrong with a something I bought there. He is also _very_ pro NRA. He provides a room free of charge each month for the NRA meetings and give discounts to council members on range time. I bought my upper from him and I would doubt he is a buddy of Iggy from the conversation we had.

I find the gents running the counter very easy to get along with.

Reeds on Alum Rock is a different subject altogether...

Totally agree. I will not set one foot in the Alum Rock store again.

xenophobe
01-06-2007, 3:48 PM
For the record, Reed's Indoor Range was the ONLY shop in the Bay Area that was carrying ANY quality AR accessories or tactical gear over a year ago. SJGE only had a few pieces if any.

Ain't that the truth? That's where I bought my first Sage stock, and numerous other things I've needed over the past several years. Stuff that we'd never have at SJGE would be a few miles down the road at Reeds Indoor.

Centurion_D
01-06-2007, 3:48 PM
For the most part I haven't had a problem with Reed's. I have bought some high value items from them so they know me. Yea there price can be high but they seem to be the only store locally that stocks the evil goodies I like..:D

krby
01-06-2007, 4:41 PM
One more thumbs up for Reed's Range. I've seen the employees be opinionated, but I was asking for their opinions, so I got exactly what I was looking for ;-)

Everyone I've dealt with there has been really good, the shop is clean, and the range is in good shape. I visited TargetMaster's once, I had trouble getting someone to check me in, had trouble finding someone to show me some range bags, and overall the vibe was that the crew was far more interested in talking to each other than dealing with a customer.

maxicon
01-06-2007, 4:58 PM
I've also had good luck with the folks at Reed's Range. I've been going there for years, and know several of them from when I used to go weekly.

My main complaint is the increased pricing. Going today with my son for 2 hours cost $45! That was $20/hour for one lane with 2 shooters, and 4 targets.

Should'a gone to one of the outdoor ranges...

gose
01-06-2007, 5:15 PM
The guys at Reed's are just ignorant and not very knowledgeable in general. Had a couple not so pleasant experiences with them last year, which included them telling me how they knew the answer to life, universe and everything.

I fully respect the "We choose whom to do business with", but you can still do that in a civil way and without spreading lies and bull****.

capitol
01-06-2007, 5:15 PM
Reeds indoor has always been good to me. The people working there are always more then helpful unlike OTHER shops in the San Jose area. Their prices are a bit high, but they have everything related to AR type firearms. If I want it now and dont want to wait for shipping I call Reeds Indoor.

BTW..Iggy was at Chabot shooting (Rem 700) on Friday Jan 5th.

bwiese
01-06-2007, 5:23 PM
BTW..Iggy was at Chabot shooting (Rem 700) on Friday Jan 5th.

Any holes in the bench or shelter overhang?

odysseus
01-09-2007, 11:40 PM
I have very reliable firsthand reports (myself!) that Jackson Arms lets folks shoot 223 rifles - I brought itn my reg'd ARs.

Now you have peaked my interest! An indoor range that allows .223? Is that for "friends" or can anyone walk in with their legal AR and run it there?

Indoor ranges around me locally do not allow them.

snaggletooth
01-10-2007, 1:20 AM
Good sir you can shoot any rifle caliber at Jackson Arms as long as is not .50 BMG and the velocity of the bullet does not exceed 3400 feet per second, .223/5.56x45 is ok, .308/7.62x51 is ok, 7.62x39 is ok, 7.62x54 is ok, 30-06 is ok, 30-30 is ok, pretty much as long as you can prove that your firearm does not exceed 3400 fps you can go and have a good time. However, the rangemasters there will have to check your ammo just to make sure it is not steel core, AP, tracer or incendiary. Also make sure you have paper work for your firearm if it is a AW, they tend to be tight on that part if they do not know you, and it is for your own good anyways. The people there are pretty good guys.

If you're ever in the area check them out http://www.jacksonarms.com/index.html

ryang
01-10-2007, 7:06 AM
Reed's is near my work so I go there once or twice a month to practice during lunch. I've gotten to know most of the employees by name, and vice versa. With the exception of one person I've found them all to be singularly helpful. One, (I think) a new guy, even calls customers "sir" which is a nice touch.

Range time is expensive but they're loose about how long you're actually there. It isn't a case of being there 61 minutes and getting dinged for a second hour.

Their prices range from cheap to expensive, but even when they're on the expensive side I feel part of what you are paying for at local stores is service. In that regard I feel they deliver.

They sell OLLs, so they're not against them.

Like many things there are some pluses and some minuses. Overall I think the pluses outweigh the minuses so I think they deserve my business.

jlackey
01-10-2007, 7:35 AM
The Reeds shooting range is a safe, well run range with helpful, polite and friendly employees. I like the guys working there and I like shooting there.

Reeds on Alum Rock has at least one nutcase black helicopter tinfoil hat type.

trackman
01-10-2007, 9:04 AM
Who's this guy Eric? The older Asian or younger Caucasian? I was there ~2 weeks ago asking a young caucasian guy about getting a case that would fit an AR15. He was friendly and went back to the office and pulled out his to try this case I was looking at. I didn't see who made the lower but it was full of mods. It didn't fit and he suggested my to go to the main Reeds store. Anyway, he was very friendly and gave me no problems. The older Asian guy is less friendly however.

bwiese
01-10-2007, 9:11 AM
Who's this guy Eric? The older Asian or younger Caucasian? I was there ~2 weeks ago asking a young caucasian guy about getting a case that would fit an AR15. He was friendly and went back to the office and pulled out his to try this case I was looking at. I didn't see who made the lower but it was full of mods. It didn't fit and he suggested my to go to the main Reeds store. Anyway, he was very friendly and gave me no problems. The older Asian guy is less friendly however.

The younger white guy (and younger Chinese guy) are both helpful and nice. I think they both own OLLs ;)

The older Japanese guy is mgr/part owner?

'Eric' is a stockier med-height white guy, 30s, fairly short blond hair, into 1911s. I think he does some training there, not sure. Anyway he's apparently on the Assault Weapons Advisory Board, but I guess AB2728 killed his little sinecure.

trackman
01-10-2007, 9:18 AM
OK, I was talking to the younger white guy. He's cool, very helpful. The older Japanese guy is always "what do you want?!" when I'm there looking for parts, clps, and stuff. I haven't seen the said Eric yet. But I agree with most that Reeds is a better place than TM. It's cleaner and better lit. TM is dark in the bays, a little creepy... But TM is cheap...

bwiese
01-10-2007, 9:30 AM
I agree that Reed's range is a nice, well-run place. The staff I've interacted with are nice & helpful. Reed's does appear quite helpful to newbies, too.

I also like Jackson Arms, esp their new renovated range (nice) - I shoot their a lot w/buddies that live up the peninsula, make a side trip for that when I go up to run errands for mom.

krby
01-10-2007, 9:40 AM
One, (I think) a new guy, even calls customers "sir" which is a nice touch.

I noticed this too. Makes me feel old, but I agree. I like the attitude of the place.

30Cal
01-10-2007, 10:13 AM
+1 on that! C'mon guys, we gotta start voting with our wallets on this stuff. Everytime someone in the gun business pulls this BS we gotta call them on it #1, cancel purchases there, and WRITE the owner/manager about why we aren't patronizing them anymore. If he wants to lose business by lying (or allowing goofy employees to lie), knowingly repeating DOJ outlandish BS, and otherwise being customer relations challenged, then let the idiot go bankrupt! The dealers need to know that customers aren't going to sit back and be BS's by those who want their business!!!


Go ahead. Maybe they'll close up shop.

Just so you know, Jim Reed is the one person you can bet on that will attend any city/county meeting where gun control is on the table. He's shut down more stupid "for the children" ideas in Santa Clara than anyone else you could possibly name. His shop is also the one of two in the area that makes a hefty contribution every year to the Friends of the NRA.

Reed's is more involved in preserving your rights than half the people on this board combined.

Ty

Aluisious
01-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Go ahead. Maybe they'll close up shop.

Just so you know, Jim Reed is the one person you can bet on that will attend any city/county meeting where gun control is on the table. He's shut down more stupid "for the children" ideas in Santa Clara than anyone else you could possibly name. His shop is also the one of two in the area that makes a hefty contribution every year to the Friends of the NRA.

Reed's is more involved in preserving your rights than half the people on this board combined.

Ty
That may be true, but his range is still staffed by people who like to joke "We'll write to you [in prison]" when a customer talks about building an OLL with a fixed magazine.

bwiese
01-10-2007, 10:21 AM
That may be true, but his range is still staffed by people who like to joke "We'll write to you [in prison]" when a customer talks about building an OLL with a fixed magazine.

That's only one staff member, Eric, who's apparently Iggy's buddy.

A couple of other guys have OLLs there.

docsmileyface
01-10-2007, 11:11 AM
Is Eric that guy who always wears Hawaiian shirts?

CodeRed
01-10-2007, 1:31 PM
One of the most frightening occurrences in life, is what I would refer to as the "Mob Mentality". Having said that, I've read some of the extremely negative threads resulting from the original post, and some of the comments that were made definitely lacks tact for public forum consumption. I think we all agree that we face a lot of obstacles as gun owners in California, and it's often difficult to find and research specific and updated information on firearm laws. We already face a lot of uphill battles in California regarding the issue of firearm ownership, and we need to work together to ensure that our second amendment rights are upheld.

I feel that in most cases it's better to be safe than sorry. I would also expect that most "intelligent and thinking" people posses the ability to intellectually sort and process the information that they've gathered..

AngryWombat
01-10-2007, 2:29 PM
I usually read the posts on the forum, and I've never felt the need to participate and comment, until today. I am a regular customer to Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara and I can't believe some of the negative comments that were made. I'm sure the regular patron's to Reed's Indoor Range will agree with me, when I say that it's one of the most "Safest" and "Friendliest" ranges in the Bay area, and I've never had a negative experience with any of the staff members or its management. The folks at Reed's often times go out of their way to answer my questions, and I've always been dealt with professionalism and courtesy.

DELETED by ivanimal no personal attacks on other members

Lastly, I would encourage the numerous loyal patron's of Reed's Indoor Range to let their voices be heard, because I don't like seeing good people bashed in a public forum

Aluisious
01-10-2007, 2:32 PM
I'll point out that when I started this thread and I only posted facts about an incident, not bashing.

rorschach
01-10-2007, 2:40 PM
I've never been to Reeds, but from what I read, it seems like an OK place, with the exception of one lost soul who happens to have a little bit of power there.

mur
01-10-2007, 3:47 PM
Never been to Target Masters, but I had nothing but good times at Reeds Indoor Range, Everyone was helpful and quite nice.

AngryWombat
01-10-2007, 4:40 PM
I'm not looking for you to "just praise Reeds", but I certainly didn't agree with some of the general negative characteraztions in the thread. No single business establishment is perfect nor can it please everyone, but I simply felt the need to stand up for a good group of hard working folks.

Scope
01-10-2007, 6:08 PM
I usually read the posts on the forum, and I've never felt the need to participate and comment, until today. I am a regular customer to Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara and I can't believe some of the negative comments that were made. I'm sure the regular patron's to Reed's Indoor Range will agree with me, when I say that it's one of the most "Safest" and "Friendliest" ranges in the Bay area, and I've never had a negative experience with any of the staff members or its management. The folks at Reed's often times go out of their way to answer my questions, and I've always been dealt with professionalism and courtesy.

+1

I prefer Reed's indoor range, even though their prices are a little higher. Justin and Rick are really friendly and knowledgable guys, and I have not had any problems with the rest of the staff.

Reeds on Alum Rock is a different subject altogether...

Xenophobe +1

I go there on occasion because they have a nice selection of guns and cases, but I have not always had good experiences there.

CraigC
01-10-2007, 8:38 PM
Ya know, one of the great things about the internet is ease of which information can be exchanged. Anyone can go online and post stuff which can be read by many people over a wide geographical range. However, since the internet affords all of us anonymity, some folks seem to take that as license to post some really stupid ****, demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of their own situation.

I've seen a lot of internet idiocy over the years, and occasionally have participated in the online asshattery. But the sheer lack of common sense and understanding demonstrated in the first few pages of this thread rank right up there with the incident with Garryowen and the rest of the CavArms 'tards.

Have ANY of you considered the fact that the firearms industry is the most heavily and arbitrarily regulated sector in this country? That the very livelihoods of people in this industry are subject to the whims and fancies of such people as the BAFTE or the DOJ? Agencies with little or no oversight? Ever consider that if you don't repeat what the overlords tell you to say, they'll crawl up your @$s to FIND something you MAY have done wrong, and make your life hell while you straighten it out?

Our common goal is the restoration of all of our constitutional rights, not just the politically correct ones. In order to do that, we have to win the PR war. We need to educate the greater population about how gun control laws are unconstitutional, not point out how badly they are written, which will only serve to make sure the next ban will be written to be all-inclusive. While our OLL builds are within the letter of the law, to those who do not share our interests in the shooting sports, we are "exploiting a loophole." Flaunting this will not help our cause. We are better served if you start out your non-shooting friends on a 10/22 than on an OLL build and correcting them when they ask "Aren't these things banned?"

If you want to toe the line of the law (without crossing it), that's fine. The key phrase to remember is "Fly Under the Radar." Just like a red Z06 will attract the attention of the cops more than a black BMW, a pinned mag OLL with all the "evil features" will attract more attention than a DM OLL set up as a varmint gun with no "evil features."

So, for those of you still awake, the key to our continued enjoyment of the shooting sports is discretion. As gunowners in this wacky state, neither the legislature, the media, nor the general public are our friends. Be careful of what, how, and to whom you say $h!t. Just like when you've been stopped by a traffic cop for speeding, don't give anyone any reason to give you and your equipment a closer look.

There's a reason why a lot of shotgun barrels are 18.5" even when the legal requirement is 18"; discrepancies in interpretation by an officer can land you in a courtroom with a hefty legal bill and the prospect of having your rights taken away.

Eric and Co. are trying to play it safe; if they gave you advice that lands you in hot water you WILL blame them. They don't know if you're some jackass "journalist" trying to do a hit-piece on gunowners, either. They're covering your asses too. THAT is professionalism, and that is what's missing at most gun stores in CA.

CodeRed
01-10-2007, 8:53 PM
Ya know, one of the great things about the internet is ease of which information can be exchanged. Anyone can go online and post stuff which can be read by many people over a wide geographical range. However, since the internet affords all of us anonymity, some folks seem to take that as license to post some really stupid ****, demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of their own situation.

I've seen a lot of internet idiocy over the years, and occasionally have participated in the online asshattery. But the sheer lack of common sense and understanding demonstrated in the first few pages of this thread rank right up there with the incident with Garryowen and the rest of the CavArms 'tards.

Have ANY of you considered the fact that the firearms industry is the most heavily and arbitrarily regulated sector in this country? That the very livelihoods of people in this industry are subject to the whims and fancies of such people as the BAFTE or the DOJ? Agencies with little or no oversight? Ever consider that if you don't repeat what the overlords tell you to say, they'll crawl up your @$s to FIND something you MAY have done wrong, and make your life hell while you straighten it out?

Our common goal is the restoration of all of our constitutional rights, not just the politically correct ones. In order to do that, we have to win the PR war. We need to educate the greater population about how gun control laws are unconstitutional, not point out how badly they are written, which will only serve to make sure the next ban will be written to be all-inclusive. While our OLL builds are within the letter of the law, to those who do not share our interests in the shooting sports, we are "exploiting a loophole." Flaunting this will not help our cause. We are better served if you start out your non-shooting friends on a 10/22 than on an OLL build and correcting them when they ask "Aren't these things banned?"

If you want to toe the line of the law (without crossing it), that's fine. The key phrase to remember is "Fly Under the Radar." Just like a red Z06 will attract the attention of the cops more than a black BMW, a pinned mag OLL with all the "evil features" will attract more attention than a DM OLL set up as a varmint gun with no "evil features."

So, for those of you still awake, the key to our continued enjoyment of the shooting sports is discretion. As gunowners in this wacky state, neither the legislature, the media, nor the general public are our friends. Be careful of what, how, and to whom you say $h!t. Just like when you've been stopped by a traffic cop for speeding, don't give anyone any reason to give you and your equipment a closer look.

There's a reason why a lot of shotgun barrels are 18.5" even when the legal requirement is 18"; discrepancies in interpretation by an officer can land you in a courtroom with a hefty legal bill and the prospect of having your rights taken away.

Eric and Co. are trying to play it safe; if they gave you advice that lands you in hot water you WILL blame them. They don't know if you're some jackass "journalist" trying to do a hit-piece on gunowners, either. They're covering your asses too. THAT is professionalism, and that is what's missing at most gun stores in CA.

Thank you, Craig for your well written post. You made some really good points and I share your opinion whole heartedly.

thmpr
01-10-2007, 9:39 PM
Xeno is correct. Alum Rock location is a place you want to go if you have to. Other than that, purchasing via net is the only way to go....

grywlfbg
01-10-2007, 9:55 PM
Reed's attitude towards shooting OLLs has been back and forth (obviously only those that shoot pistol calibers, like 9mm and .22, as their backstop used to be in bad shape before th addition of the rubber layer, and not able to handle rifle rounds).

I have very reliable 2nd hand reports that Jackson Arms is the right place to shoot OLLs.

Yep. My only problem at Jackson is all the drool the workers leave on my rifles :D

Though I wish they hadn't made the rifle lanes a separate area. The concussion from an AR gives me a headache after 60 rounds or so. I only go there if I'm hard-up for some trigger time. Rather go to Chabot.

Chris

maxicon
01-11-2007, 8:30 AM
Now I disagree, quite strongly. Some of the staff at Reed's simply has no clue about the finer points of gun law; others are so-so. Some of the staff at Reed's is way too full of itself, and thinks that they know everything, and that they are always right. Those guys tend to spout nonsense, with an air of superiority. Trying to argue with them is pointless, as they will start invoking their superiority (they know everything, and the police/DoJ/ATF is soon going to come and get you, because everything you do is illegal). Others at least know that they don't know, and if you press them on an issue, they go to the back room, and come back 5 minutes later with a 100-page document full of ATF regulations, and admit that they were wrong the first time.

I can handle people who don't know the fine details, in particular if they are willing to educate themselves. It is the other set of people that I have an issue with: they don't know, yet they preach. No, they are not trying to give you a safer or less offensive version of the law, to protect you from getting to close to the edge. They simply have no idea, and they don't even know how few ideas they have, and they are obnoxious about it.

I find this to be true at just about every gun establishment, shop or range, in the Bay Area. There are an awful lot of people who think they know the law and really don't, and some of them end up working in these places.

I've learned to just keep quiet, and when they spout misinformation my way, I say "Hmm... Really? Interesting." or something similar. There's nothing to be gained by getting into a long, nitpicking argument. As you say, trying to argue is pointless.

It's hardest when they say these things to another customer. "It's illegal to sell your used guns through a web forum" was the line I heard just the other day at a local shop. I really wanted to give them www.calguns.net, but I bit my tongue and went about my business, because it's their shop.

There are just too many windmills for me to tilt at all of them.

Aluisious
01-11-2007, 8:45 AM
I think www.gunbroker.com would like to know it's illegal to sell used guns through a web forum. :rolleyes:

fairfaxjim
01-11-2007, 10:18 AM
(one might hope that they learned some humility and manners, but that's probably too much to ask for).
Unfortunately, humility and manners are not often learned by adults. Those that have those traits can thank their parents for the way they were raised.

Note that the above little anecdote is not intended to imply that exactly that happened at Reed's, but it is a didactic example only. And this discussion is about gun stores and gun ranges in general, not any particular person at a particular establishment.
Starting to sound a little like the disclaimer at the begining of "South Park." :D

tpliquid1
01-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Reed's is nice because they learned my name and stuff, but they jacked up the prices there recently which kinda sucks. Besides, the kids working at Target Masters are my age, and that's fun.

my buddys brother just got a job at Target masters last week. heh

tpliquid1
01-11-2007, 10:26 AM
Wow... a bunch of people who have never been there saying how horrible Reeds is. Freaking hilarious.

Reeds Indoor is actually pretty decent, except for their prices which are on the high side, they do carry a lot of good gear that you can't find anywhere but online. They're great for "if you need it" type of moments, and their hours are decent. Most of the guys working at the range are decent to deal with. I've gone there a number of times and never had any problems. They're certainly better than National Shooting Club which used to be there.

Reeds on Alum Rock is a different subject altogether...

werd. i had good experience there. if i cant wait for the part online, i will buy at reeds. even if their price is a bit higher. gotta support a B&M otherwise they will close :(

elmo
01-11-2007, 10:30 AM
I've shot at jackson arms and reeds pretty often. I brought my OLL to reeds (.40) first in november of 2005 at least 10 times, and all of the staff were very open minded to what we were doing and how you could bring in OLL that are unnamed etc etc. Only one time did someone try to give me bs about how what i was doing is illegal etc.

Jackson Arms i've been to almost every week in the last month and those guys are great. They drool over the OLL, but even more so love Grant's new U-Stock.

I haven't been to Reeds in a few months now, but I will be going there today with my OLL, we'll see if i get any response from them.

AngryWombat
01-11-2007, 12:30 PM
I received the following private message from one of the moderators of this forum:

Edited again by ivanimal

If you feel this is appropriate calguns is not the place for you. One more memeber bash and I will give you your leave.

Ivan”

I’ve requested that I be removed from the forum; I've had my say. Judging by what's allowed in some of the threads, the "edit" to my post is highly unfair. Some of the members are slandering individuals from a business establishment by NAME, and I'm not sure why that's acceptable and allowed. I am sure majority of the people who are posting the negative/slandering comments would NOT want their names and employers posted in a public forum. Fighting for my second amendment rights in California is difficult enough; I don't feel the need to fight for my Freedom of Speech.

leelaw
01-11-2007, 3:01 PM
I received the following private message from one of the moderators of this forum:

Iíve requested that I be removed from the forum; I've had my say. Judging by what's allowed in some of the threads, the "edit" to my post is highly unfair. Some of the members are slandering individuals from a business establishment by NAME, and I'm not sure why that's acceptable and allowed. I am sure majority of the people who are posting the negative/slandering comments would NOT want their names and employers posted in a public forum. Fighting for my second amendment rights in California is difficult enough; I don't feel the need to fight for my Freedom of Speech.

Martyr yourself much?

You can speak your mind, but you do NOT get to go after other members like you did. Posting a private message without consent like such is just acting childish. Adios.

NextTimeAround
01-11-2007, 3:19 PM
+1 to Reed's. It's clean, in good shape, and the slightly higher prices keep some people out.

rorschach
01-11-2007, 3:26 PM
Wombat, Calguns, not being a part of the government, is not bound by the 1st Amendment. There are rules we must all follow if we wish to continue being a part of the CG community. You are entitled to your opinions, and no one is stopping you from expressing them, but when you call out other members thats a violation.

That being said, dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.

ivanimal
01-11-2007, 6:25 PM
Had someone attacked you or something you love would you not be upset? Oh thatís right, thatís why we are having this discussion in the first place.

Better to be obnoxious than civil?

The problem I have is that there are more issues than the one at hand here. We probably see eye to eye on most of them. That said, we will not stand for anyone attacking another member, if you still want to leave then go ahead no one is stopping you. If you wish to stay and be around like minded people with gun rights as our main focus, you are welcome to. No one is attacking your first amendment rights here, like a drivers permit it is a privilege to be here. You can stay if you can be civil, there are more opinions here than just yours.

Dont Tread on Me
01-11-2007, 6:38 PM
The older Japanese guy is mgr/part owner?

Nope, he just works there. I agree he is not the most helpful of the staff. Eric is the store manager.


'Eric' is a stockier med-height white guy, 30s, fairly short blond hair, into 1911s. I think he does some training there, not sure. Anyway he's apparently on the Assault Weapons Advisory Board, but I guess AB2728 killed his little sinecure.

Can I ask everybody to cut this ***t out about Eric until they actually talk to him and get it first hand that he is a "member of the assault weapons board", Iggie's best buddy, and anti "OLL". I think you will find it is quite the opposite but I'm not going to speak for him.

leelaw
01-11-2007, 7:12 PM
Stuff

Wombat. You have interrupted a thread with personal attacks, and have continued so with your PM to me.

You could have possibly provided useful information to the forum, but I guess that's not an option now.

Now back to our thread.

Dont Tread on Me
01-11-2007, 7:20 PM
Second, they have certain rules (on firing from a holster, or firing double-taps, or rapid fire, or unusual weapons), but these rules are not clearly spelled out, nor are they posted, so you have to figure it out yourself.

They have them written up and get you to read and sign them on your first visit. They let LEOs and people who have taken there courses to use holsters and rapid fire.

rayra
01-11-2007, 10:07 PM
Hell yeah! If he's already rung your purchase up, just tell him "forget it" and cancel the purchase.

Buying ammo online is good. Good prices, and the selection is always better than any store could dream of.Sorry, that doesn't work 'All ammo sales final'. Better to have your discussions before money changes hands.

rorschach
01-11-2007, 10:19 PM
Heres the response I got for my above post

AngryWombat
Banned Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3

iTrader: (0)
A community of what?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Haha @ the CG community! Most of you seem like a bunch of uneducated jerks! ::snip::


You terd, thanks to some of these "uneduacted jerks" you have the ability to own AR's and AK's again.

Jeez, what a tool.

Aluisious
01-11-2007, 10:26 PM
Nope, he just works there. I agree he is not the most helpful of the staff. Eric is the store manager.



Can I ask everybody to cut this ***t out about Eric until they actually talk to him and get it first hand that he is a "member of the assault weapons board", Iggie's best buddy, and anti "OLL". I think you will find it is quite the opposite but I'm not going to speak for him.
Dude, did you read my original post?

This Eric fellow told me himself that he was on some kind of "assault weapon board" or some combination of words meaning the same thing.

As for anti-OLL, he declared my gun (with Prince50 kit) "subject to confiscation."

How much more first hand do you want it?

As a footnote, he also declared "those internet guys are extremely irresponsible."

Anyone want to guess who he might possibly be referring to? :rolleyes:

Aluisious
01-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Wombat, Calguns, not being a part of the government, is not bound by the 1st Amendment. There are rules we must all follow if we wish to continue being a part of the CG community. You are entitled to your opinions, and no one is stopping you from expressing them, but when you call out other members thats a violation.

That being said, dont let the door hit ya in the arse on the way out.
Heh, I always love it when people complain about their First Amendment rights on privately owned websites :D

Dont Tread on Me
01-12-2007, 5:14 AM
Dude, did you read my original post?

This Eric fellow told me himself that he was on some kind of "assault weapon board" or some combination of words meaning the same thing.

As for anti-OLL, he declared my gun (with Prince50 kit) "subject to confiscation."

How much more first hand do you want it?

As a footnote, he also declared "those internet guys are extremely irresponsible."

Anyone want to guess who he might possibly be referring to? :rolleyes:

I replied to BW's post as his just repeating what you said without confirming it himself. That is very unlike BW as he normally confirms things and I'm trying to reminding him of that.

I know Eric well and his not anti OLL and to my knowledge not a member of any board or buddies with any DOJ employees so I'm pretty sure there is some confusion here.

Eric has commented to me on the danger of some Internet posting where OLL are pictured configured as assault weapons as some believe the internet is totally anonymous. He also commented that he believed that OLL were not listed because our game plan was posted for all to read on-line. Both seam reasonable comments to me.

.45ACP
01-12-2007, 8:20 AM
Eric has commented to me on the danger of some Internet posting where OLL are pictured configured as assault weapons as some believe the internet is totally anonymous.


It's not like the Reed's employees don't know who you guys are when you post these things. Whether you guys care or not you might want to think how you might be looked at next time you go to their business.

Dont Tread on Me
01-12-2007, 8:29 AM
It's not like the Reed's employees don't know who you guys are when you post these things. Whether you guys care or not you might want to think how you might be looked at next time you go to their business.

I don't understand. I'm trying very hard on this thread to defend Reed's and Eric. I'm telling people not to write him off a member of the DOJ secret assault weapon board with out at least talking with him.

It looks like you've tried to take one line out of context from my post then claim that the Reed's employees will shoot me on sight! What is your point?

.45ACP
01-12-2007, 8:32 AM
I don't understand. I'm trying very hard on this thread to defend Reed's and Eric. I'm telling people not to write him off a member of the DOJ secret assault weapon board with out at least talking with him.

It looks like you've tried to take one line out of context from my post then claim that the Reed's employees will shoot me on sight! What is your point?


That wasn't directed at you, Brit. I was agreeing with your comment about what Eric said. I'm sure the guys at Reed's will thank you for defending them. My comment was directed at the people that had nothing positive or constructive to say.

p.s. sorry for the misunderstanding.

Dont Tread on Me
01-12-2007, 8:35 AM
Sorry - misunderstood your post. Thanks.

Aluisious
01-12-2007, 9:04 AM
I replied to BW's post as his just repeating what you said without confirming it himself. That is very unlike BW as he normally confirms things and I'm trying to reminding him of that.

I know Eric well and his not anti OLL and to my knowledge not a member of any board or buddies with any DOJ employees so I'm pretty sure there is some confusion here.

Eric has commented to me on the danger of some Internet posting where OLL are pictured configured as assault weapons as some believe the internet is totally anonymous. He also commented that he believed that OLL were not listed because our game plan was posted for all to read on-line. Both seam reasonable comments to me.
I don't know for a fact the guy I talked to was Eric. I didn't get his name.

Other people described a guy there who sounds like the guy who spoke to me, so I'm just calling him Eric for convenience then. I've been at Reed's many times and haven't seen the guy in question more than twice, so I know he's not one of the other guys described who work there.

Someone at Reed's definately doesn't like OLLs with pinned mags.

Alanski56
01-12-2007, 9:41 AM
ROFLMAO.:D
What did the five fingas say to the face!

And I'm Rick James, biyotch!:D

Anyway, I learned a long time ago that when I enter a gun store or a shooting range the only thing I will discuss with the employees is price. I'm not interested in discussing anything gun related with them. I'll do the research and come to my own conclusions myself, thank you.

Have a nice day.

bwiese
01-12-2007, 9:49 AM
I'm pretty sure it's Eric. I could be wrong.

One other employee did tell me one of their staff was the 'citizen' on the Assault Weapons Board (i.e, Ferranto Commission). And apparently Iggy is friends w/this same person.

That AW board slot is probably moot as AB2728 is in force.

Regardless, that doesn't mean Reed's is not a well-run place to shoot. This is just interesting background on one employee.

cool_breeze
01-12-2007, 11:30 AM
And I'm Rick James, biyotch!:D

Anyway, I learned a long time ago that when I enter a gun store or a shooting range the only thing I will discuss with the employees is price. I'm not interested in discussing anything gun related with them. I'll do the research and come to my own conclusions myself, thank you.

Have a nice day.


Word.

mr_leetzor
01-12-2007, 1:04 PM
Well since everybody is adding their experiences I thought I'd add mine...

I have shot plenty of times at Reeds, the people there recognise me as somebody who's been there before, but not by name. I usally show up about every 6 weeks or so(when I can't find time to go up to Los Altos Rod and Gun).

I took my first handgun/firearms saftey class there from Bill Tidwell about a year ago through Reeds. It was a great class I really enjoyed it, and I would reccomend sending anybody who wants to get even the most basic firearms safety knowledge to take it.

Shortly after I bought my own handgun(Glock21) and started shooting it at Reeds in Santa Clara. Now of course, since I was a noob I made all kinds of dumb mistakes. The older Japanese gentleman would see me making these mistakes and give me a little talking to.

I was using crummy ammo that was all corroded(dumb I know, I plead ignorance), cleaning my gun wrong, and having problems with stance. When the lobby gets empty they go and observe the shooters through the glass, and this is when they would see me.

They came and gave me pointers, told me how I could improve, proper care of my weapon, got me to chuck the crummy ammo I got at a gun show. All kinds of generally friendly stuff(although not alway friendly in tone ;-), but I always appreciated it since I was a noob.

As for Reeds in San Jose, I bought my mini-14 from them. And after an expereince I didn't really enjoy from Kurly's when I bought my Glock I thought I would try out somebody else. The man that helped me at Reeds was very helpful, friendly, knowledgeable about firearms, and a pleasure to do business with.

I don't deny that there may be bad seeds here and there that others have found, but I only have had good experiences with Reeds and will be buying my firearms from them in the future.