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gogogadget
07-18-2011, 2:21 PM
So there was an officer involved shooting in SF on 7-16-11. The aftermath of the incident is on the internet. Now not knowing the circumstances this shows the level of ignorance on the publics opinion of the incident. The bystanders and who ever watches the video ( non leo) will automatically assume its brutality. Word of advice don't run from the police and comply. Let LEO do their job, doing otherwise puts cops on edge. So even if there was not a weapon the man still ran from officers and presented hostility that led them to believe he was dangerous. Your outlook on this would be appreciated. Ill try to find the link to the incident. Its graphic.

Mikeb
07-18-2011, 2:42 PM
He did shoot at the police and he was wanted on a warrant from Washington State for questioning in a murder investigation.

Thank you SFPD
Mike

Tripper
07-18-2011, 2:44 PM
the best/most misleading headline
San Francisco Police Shoot and Kill Teenager over $2 bus fare ...
www.abovetopsecret.com

gogogadget
07-18-2011, 2:55 PM
I think its wrong that police are potrayed negatively. I knew there was more to the story. Thanks for the correct information regarding the incident. Im sick of seeing all these anti police videos. Its a tough job you do. Thanks for keeping us safe.

Falconis
07-18-2011, 3:11 PM
Funny thing is, after revealing the scumbag was a rapist and murderer, the libtard jackasses still want to hold a demonstration over police brutality on behalf of said jackass.

Shellshocker66
07-18-2011, 3:29 PM
I give the police of SFPD kudos for keeping it together while the crowd was pushing the limits around the crime scene!

415dog!
07-18-2011, 3:37 PM
That crowd can be ruthless, remember the BART shooting video. Crazy crowds!!

Samuelx
07-18-2011, 4:04 PM
Great job by SFPD - one less POS to worry about. Now if only some (most) of those Other ignorant idiots would refrain from reproducing, then we might be making some headway...

BigDogatPlay
07-18-2011, 4:13 PM
Given the neighborhood, I would expect the crowd to be ruthless. That's just how it is in the Bayview.

There are a number of videos going up on You Tube of the immediate aftermath of the shooting. One of them, which went up yesterday and anonymously, clearly shows what appears to be a handgun on the pavement near where the suspect fell. That gun was picked up, along with spent casings, and disappeared into the crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooYJVFkNPuc

It's an interesting case to be sure.

Jonathan Doe
07-18-2011, 4:40 PM
Probably 98% of population out there will say it is police brutality or excessive use of force and will say police will cover up.

Now, with independent investigation by Homicide Bureau, DA's office and Internal Affairs, how will people claim cover up? It will be interesting.

Yaki
07-18-2011, 5:49 PM
Before you rip everyone in Bayview, it was the people gave the police information on where to locate the gun and the police acknowledged that. So everyone is not anti cop..

bigtimeinAR15
07-18-2011, 6:08 PM
guy has gun. guy runs with gun from armed LEO'S. suspect down. niehborhood up in arms. funny how people judge the police when they shoot a man with a gun but they are the first ones to call when they need help. dumb people breed even more dumb people.

2Bear
07-18-2011, 6:12 PM
SFPD are a bunch of saints, IME and IMNSHO.

They're some of the best in the country in avoiding the Us versus Them mentality.

Kudos to SFPD.

safewaysecurity
07-18-2011, 6:16 PM
guy has gun. guy runs with gun from armed LEO'S. suspect down. niehborhood up in arms. funny how people judge the police when they shoot a man with a gun but they are the first ones to call when they need help. dumb people breed even more dumb people.

idk. alot of people say he was unarmed. lots of conflicting reports. we will have to wait and see.

Samuelx
07-18-2011, 6:40 PM
idk. alot of people say he was unarmed. lots of conflicting reports. we will have to wait and see.

idk. if the officers say he shot at them And reported that they were able to recover the suspect's gun (with the help of at least one decent person up there), i'd give them the benefit of the doubt over the mob (and the routine allegations of misconduct from all the rest of the anti-LE idiots out there) that was in the videos.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DNA
07-18-2011, 6:51 PM
MOB reminds me of what would happen around here in the Inglewood, Hawthorne, Gardena area...

Dan

Cuerno_de_Chivo
07-18-2011, 6:54 PM
The murder victim was pregnant as well. POS deserved what he got. I read that he shot at them FIRST!

BigDogatPlay
07-18-2011, 7:16 PM
Before you rip everyone in Bayview, it was the people gave the police information on where to locate the gun and the police acknowledged that. So everyone is not anti cop..

Didn't say they were. There are stand up people in every community and neighborhood, the Bayview is no exception. I am very happy that the folks who tipped the gun did so.

I would also be willing to wager a dollar or three that 99% + of those who were there alleging brutality weren't there when it happened. Clearly the decent people who were and who saw the gun disappear were there when it happened. I'm always going to give them the nod.

FWIW, I was born and raised in the city and I've seen it change a lot, and in a lot of negative ways over the years. The Bayview has been worse, but not much.

1-M-42
07-18-2011, 7:22 PM
idk. alot of people say he was unarmed. lots of conflicting reports. we will have to wait and see.

Interesting....suppose the bullet impacts, the recovered gun, recovered shell casings, the video showing the gun, video showing some turd picking up the gun and said casings and the supporting, independent, witness statements are all made up.

Lesson learned, don't shoot at the cops, we tend to take a dim view of such actions, we respond accordingly and generally are better shots.....

reggie 00
07-18-2011, 7:51 PM
they also released the shot monitor tape.
you can hear one shot a slight pause then 9 shots

2Bear
07-18-2011, 8:57 PM
Lesson learned, don't shoot at the cops, we tend to take a dim view of such actions, we respond accordingly and generally are better shots.....

LOL.

yzernie
07-18-2011, 9:19 PM
idk. alot of people say he was unarmed. lots of conflicting reports. we will have to wait and see.
idk. No waiting necessary. Within 5 minutes I was able to find several videos that have clearly showed you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. Google search can be your friend.

tom2
07-18-2011, 9:35 PM
they, SFPD did just fine. the print and (most) television media in the SF bay area have not been LEO friendly for quite some time. the usual BS after a OIS....

evil tyler durden
07-18-2011, 9:55 PM
guy has gun. guy runs with gun from armed LEO'S. suspect down. niehborhood up in arms. funny how people judge the police when they shoot a man with a gun but they are the first ones to call when they need help. dumb people breed even more dumb people.

PEOPLE ARE STUPID, BUT A PERSON IS SMART.

My reason behind this thought is this. When a group of people are together they show a mentality found in the group as a whole (MOB MENTALITY). Many people one mindset. Now you take one person by themselves, and they have the ability to CHOOSE for themselves as to what they want to have as their beliefs and what actions they want to take in a situation. A person can think on their own, a group of people are too dumb to go against the group.

Hence "PEOPLE ARE STUPID, BUT A PERSON IS SMART."

Falconis
07-19-2011, 12:12 AM
SFPD are a bunch of saints, IME and IMNSHO.

They're some of the best in the country in avoiding the Us versus Them mentality.

Kudos to SFPD.

and thank you for bringing up an unnecessary subject into this thread.

As to safeway security, seriously? Not enough in OT to troll about there?

DriftinG Z32
07-19-2011, 12:59 AM
SFPD is slated to hold a community meeting this Wednesday in Bayview to share the facts of this case with citizens... maybe it ease a little tension.

non sequitur
07-19-2011, 6:41 AM
http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2011/07/18/sfpd-shotspotter-shows-where-the-sfpd-fired-ten-times-at-kenneth-harding-on-july-16th-2011-in-the-bayview/

The ShotSpotter technology is very accurate. From the website above, it appears the suspect fired one round and then the officer(s) returned fire from two different spots at the scene.

Keep in mind, this website may have been doctored up or altered but if not, the series of triangulated gunfire shows 1 round (pause), then rounds 2 -8 (pause), then rounds 9 & 10.

This paints a likely scenario of the suspect firing the 1st round at police, Officer #1 returns fire (rounds 2 thru 8) and Officer #2 then fired rounds 9 & 10 (maybe Officer #2 fell victim to sympathy shooting... this usually happens when multiple officers discharge their weapons after the first officer decides to shoot)

Anyway, ShotSpotter acoustic evidence is helpful when trying to decipher who shot first...

veeklog
07-19-2011, 6:52 AM
SFPD is slated to hold a community meeting this Wednesday in Bayview to share the facts of this case with citizens... maybe it ease a little tension.

WTF?!? Are we becoming as politically correct as Canada when it comes to Officer involved shootings?!? We have to have news conferences and community meetings to ease tensions. I am okay with the news conferences to explain to the public what happened, but the community meetings goes too far.

Guy pulls out gun, shoots at cops, cops shoot bad guy, end of story! Good shoot and should end there.

biochembruin
07-19-2011, 7:08 AM
SFPD is slated to hold a community meeting this Wednesday in Bayview to share the facts of this case with citizens... maybe it ease a little tension.

It won't change any opinions. People that don't believe the facts will just shout down the presenter and say the police are lying. That's what happened during the community meeting after the Manuel Jamines shooting. Very discouraging.

yzernie
07-19-2011, 7:37 AM
This paints a likely scenario of the suspect firing the 1st round at police, Officer #1 returns fire (rounds 2 thru 8) and Officer #2 then fired rounds 9 & 10 (maybe Officer #2 fell victim to sympathy shooting... this usually happens when multiple officers discharge their weapons after the first officer decides to shoot)
I will agree that it happens on rare occassions but to use the term "usually" is highly inaccurate.

After watching several videos, SFPD needs to hunt down the fool(s) that took the suspects gun and prosecute them.

I'm impressed with the actions taken by the officers doing the crowd control. Maybe I'm spoiled but where I work the "citizens" would not act like that. I did find many of the comments yelled out by the bystanders to be very humorous....."They kilt that boy", "They shooted him 10 times", "We be havin yo jobs", just way to funny and I actually laughed out loud!!

non sequitur
07-19-2011, 8:38 AM
OK, OK... perhaps the term "usually" wasn't the best choice of words but in my defense, my morning coffee hadn't kicked in yet! ;)

Now that I'm all 11550 on Peet's, I suppose I should've left out the word "usually" in my original statement.

Stay safe out there!

4FTTY
07-21-2011, 9:04 AM
The mob shouted down the Chief at the town hall meeting. There's gonna be a riot before this thing ends. I love the pictures of the dreadlocked white kids and anarchists in the middle of the demonstration groups. Ugh.

biochembruin
07-21-2011, 9:21 AM
The mob shouted down the Chief at the town hall meeting. There's gonna be a riot before this thing ends. I love the pictures of the dreadlocked white kids and anarchists in the middle of the demonstration groups. Ugh.

Yeah, that's what I figured would happen. You can't reason with people who have an agenda.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-21-2011, 9:59 AM
The mob shouted down the Chief at the town hall meeting. There's gonna be a riot before this thing ends. I love the pictures of the dreadlocked white kids and anarchists in the middle of the demonstration groups. Ugh.


Nevius had a great column in today's SF Chronicle: (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/21/BAJM1KCQRS.DTL)

So far the only group that has gotten satisfaction out of this is the small group of nihilists from Tuesday's protest. News blogs said they were 150 strong, but I counted only about 80 of them gathered in front of the TV news trucks at Dolores Park. The irony of staging the protest in the city's hippest park, rather than in the Bayview, apparently escaped them.


They meandered up and down the streets. "What do you expect?" one bystander said. "They're anarchists. They don't have a plan." They set off a flare in a Muni Metro station, banged on some fare machines, milled around and then came back out.
At one point they marched down Castro Street chanting, "Out of the bars! Into the streets!" Good luck with that, I thought, walking past a guy at a sidewalk table watching the parade go by as he sipped a glass of white wine.


When they turned onto 18th Street, someone threw something at the Bank of America that smashed a softball-size hole in the window. So to review: They marched in the Castro, which had nothing to do with the shooting, and they broke a window in a bank that was unconnected. Later, 43 of them were arrested.
emphasis mine.

Of that 43 arrested, only one (1) was from the Bayview. What a bunch of jackwagons.

Vinz
07-21-2011, 10:03 AM
Nevius had a great column in today's SF Chronicle: (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/21/BAJM1KCQRS.DTL)

emphasis mine.

Of that 43 arrested, only one (1) was from the Bayview. What a bunch of jackwagons. but 17 where from SF this time.

Speaking of protesters, There was an interesting interview with Yvette Felarca, the leader of BAMN, search "protest group on sfpd shooting demonstation" in the RAW video section on CBS5.com if you are interested. don't want to hotlink

Its pretty clear that they mean business, I think they need a opposition group.

Pretty unfortunate shooting but if you shoot then run from the police your odds on getting shot in the back increase quite a bit.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-21-2011, 10:04 AM
The mob shouted down the Chief at the town hall meeting.

Gotta give Chief Suhr a lot of credit for trying; him being the former captain of the Bayview Station, probably helps also. The man knows the neighborhood and the people.

Quote the Chief: "They shouted me down - that just means I've got to come back again," he added.

But this quote from a 'community activist' pisses me off no end:
"I feel like it went nowhere - our questions were left unanswered," he said. "We need to shut down the T line until we get answers to our demands - no police on trains, free trains or no trains at all. We'll make sure there are no trains at all if that's the way they want it."

This guy wants chaos for chaos sake? Screw him. A lot of people need the T Line to get out of that freaking neighborhood to get to work, hold down jobs and make a better future for their kids.

Falconis
07-21-2011, 10:20 AM
Welcome to the behavior this area pretty much breeds and encourages. Screw things like rational thought.

strongpoint
07-21-2011, 3:03 PM
breaking news: coroner's office reports kenneth harding killed HIMSELF.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-21-2011, 3:13 PM
breaking news: coroner's office reports kenneth harding killed HIMSELF.


Huh? Source please.

BigDogatPlay
07-21-2011, 3:23 PM
Chief Suhr, by all accounts, ran a pretty good ship when he commanded Bayview (used to be Potrero) Station. Had a good rapport with the community and took care of business.

He, current station CO Captain Paul Chignell, and the command staff that stood by for the town hall were trying to do the right thing. Unfortunately between the out of town anarchists and those Bayview residents who don't believe the police regardless, the town hall debilitated into complete balls up. The chief, essentially, threw up his hands and said if you won't even listen to me why should I bother.

Can't say I blame him.

Mikeb
07-21-2011, 3:27 PM
I found this...
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8263616

It said the bullet didn't come from SFPD revolver... I didn't think they carried revolvers?
Mike

QuarterBoreGunner
07-21-2011, 3:28 PM
I found this...
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8263616

It said the bullet didn't come from SFPD revolver... I didn't think they carried revolvers?
Mike


They don't.

2Bear
07-21-2011, 3:36 PM
Police Cmdr. Mike Biel said preliminary autopsy results showed the caliber of the bullet that killed 19-year-old Kenneth Harding did not match the caliber used by police. Biel said a .380-caliber bullet entered Harding through his neck and lodged in his head, killing him.

Police use .40-caliber bullets. Police said they had not determined whether Harding shot himself on purpose or by accident.
Investigators initially said Harding was gunned down by police
after he opened fire on them during a chase Saturday. They said an unfired.380-caliber bullet was found in Harding'spocket, but the gun itself was not recovered.

http://www.facebook.com/KRON4

strongpoint
07-21-2011, 3:38 PM
Huh? Source please.

SFPD press conference at the coroner's office. said the slug recovered from harding was a .380, not a .40 as SFPD would be using.

Philthy
07-21-2011, 3:43 PM
I was told that the officer fired from close to 30 yards away and hit center mass on a moving target with adrenaline in full swing. Amazing.

The "community meeting" was ridiculous. Suhr went to present the evidence and they wouldn't even let him speak. One guy even complained that Suhr won't "sit down" with the community to hear their concerns. Suhr's response: "I'm 5 feet away from you trying to do just that."

Suhr's quote says it all:
"He fired at them, they fired back. That is what officers are going to do. If you fire at the police, they are going to shoot back."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/18/BA2G1KBJ9G.DTL

Most of the people "demonstrating" were not even Bayview residents. Most weren't actually even City residents! They are BAMN anarchists. You can tell from their uniforms: black clothing, black mask, backpack with hammers and gas masks. They were the ones smashing things. Professional demonstrators. The one thing I can't figure is who is shelling out the money to back these activities and more importantly WHY. I don't see the angle.

And as far as Bayview in general: It has gotten better. I still wouldn't choose to live there, but things are certainly better. 3rd st is somewhat cleaned up, and the T third runs down there. The neighborhood demographic is changing too. The thing is, the "locals" are opposed to any improvement or development. If I were a homeowner there, I would appreciate ANY improvements.

mariodesmo
07-21-2011, 5:24 PM
SFPD is the best. They have helped family members a number of times, truly good guys.

The anarchists don't want the rule of law. They want complete chaos and
will use any police incident to take to the streets and make noise. They
are a troubled, spoiled children... IMHO.

tonelar
07-21-2011, 7:41 PM
BAMN are largely self funded. They're rich kids and hipster dirt bags wih a cause.

http://www.fugitive.com/2011/07/21/san-francisco-police-report-kenneth-harding-jr-killed-himself/

So now the coroner finds a .380 bullet in Harding Jr's head.

scarville
07-21-2011, 8:42 PM
Huh? Source please.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015690502_shooting22.html

DriftinG Z32
07-22-2011, 3:35 AM
WTF?!? Are we becoming as politically correct as Canada when it comes to Officer involved shootings?!? We have to have news conferences and community meetings to ease tensions. I am okay with the news conferences to explain to the public what happened, but the community meetings goes too far.

Guy pulls out gun, shoots at cops, cops shoot bad guy, end of story! Good shoot and should end there.

These meetings will become commonplace, whenever there is a OIS that involves a minority, in communities similar to Bayview.

tonelar
07-26-2011, 3:14 AM
So now the family got a couple of lawyers.

Mother of Kenneth Harding Says She Want$ Answer$

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/mother-man-shot-bayview-says-she-wants-answers

Disgusted

BigDogatPlay
07-26-2011, 4:52 PM
Mother of Kenneth Harding Says She Want$ Answer$

Her son put one in his own head, and a perpetratin' passerby picked up his gat and left with it.... why her son did that he can't say.

Seems pretty much like an answer to me.

Warhawk014
07-26-2011, 11:44 PM
John Sanchez, a criminalist at the San Francisco Crime Lab, said the .380-caliber bullet found in Harding's head was not consistent with the. 40-caliber guns issued to San Francisco police.

ok so SFPD shoots him in the leg, he stumbles, trips himself up and as he falls to the ground manages to shoot himself in the head.

im sorry, and i know its inappropriate but i just had to laugh at this one. im sorry if i offended anyone.

2Bear
07-27-2011, 9:47 PM
Mother of Kenneth Harding Says She Want$ Answer$


Why her son off'd himself? The article mentions the likely answer:

Harding was also wanted for questioning in connection with a fatal shooting in South Seattle on July 13, according to police.

Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/07/mother-man-shot-bayview-says-she-wants-answers#ixzz1TNMwL1RH