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View Full Version : Hell freezes over: Rudy Giuliani supports RKBA, says 'no' to an AW ban...


bwiese
07-15-2011, 5:25 PM
Third-rail politics is WINNING - in combination with general popular understanding of RKBA plus antigun-ism being a political issue falling far, far down the list.

We've transitioned from (a decade ago) a polarized pro-gun/antigun situation to today's holding the feet to the fire of a former metro mayor, and cornering him vocally declare no support of an AW ban - in order to get traction in his candidacy.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110715/NEWS0605/707159975

"My views on the second amendment are exactly the same as they are on the First
Amendment, Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth,” he said. “The Second Amendment of
the Constitution is a personal right that has been given to us by our Founding Fathers.
It’s not something that can be tampered with. It’s not something that can be significantly
abridged.”

His first question from the audience, from a guy wearing an NRA cap: Do you support a
so-called assault weapons ban?”

The answer, he said, is no. The answer to Giuliani’s political future will not come until the
end of summer, though he sounded like a candidate vying for Republican and independent
voters throughout the day."

Woot. Large bricks are moving thru the intestinal tracts of the Bradys.

This really isn't even about Giuliani as a candidate or individual. It's much more about the greater nature and framing of the issue, such that a candidate has to hang his hat on it and stay on the right side of our Third Rail.

IGOTDIRT4U
07-15-2011, 5:26 PM
I...don't...trust...him...one...bit...to...maintai n...that...position.

Arondos
07-15-2011, 5:31 PM
Couldn't be he will say whatever he needs to to get votes. nah that couldn't be it.

bwiese
07-15-2011, 5:34 PM
From a practical standpoint (if he were Pres) and combined with current and future mix in Congress, it means Fed bad gun laws are dead.

He also realizes there are enough fallbacks (Congress, Senate) that he knows it won't come up for a vote. :)

taperxz
07-15-2011, 5:37 PM
From a practical standpoint (if he were Pres) and combined with current and future mix in Congress, it means Fed bad gun laws are dead.

He also realizes there are enough fallbacks (Congress, Senate) that he knows it won't come up for a vote. :)

^^This!

If you want to win you may as well be on the winning side!

IGOTDIRT4U
07-15-2011, 5:38 PM
From a practical standpoint (if he were Pres) and combined with current and future mix in Congress, it means Fed bad gun laws are dead.

He also realizes there are enough fallbacks (Congress, Senate) that he knows it won't come up for a vote. :)

Not saying I wouldn't vote for him if it was Guiliani against obama, but he's got a track record that doesn't exactly spell "2A liberty". Then again, I fully expect a "R" majority in both sides of congress after 2012. Then it won't matter if he does flop.

corrupt
07-15-2011, 5:38 PM
Couldn't be he will say whatever he needs to to get votes. nah that couldn't be it.

Ain't nothin wrong with that necessarily. Politicians should be in the business of making their constituency happy, as well as doing The Right Thing. It's making due on the aforementioned espousals is what seems to be tricky ;)

BigDogatPlay
07-15-2011, 5:40 PM
Mayor Giuliani, as a former United States Attorney, apparently hasn't forgotten how to read appellate decisions. And he has an open mind.

Good on him.... and I am thinking like Bill that there isn't enough Ex-Lax to move the load that the Brady gang is carrying around right now.

:D

stix213
07-15-2011, 6:00 PM
Better than Romney

proclone1
07-15-2011, 6:04 PM
Rudy basically claimed that he personally stopped the 4th 9/11 jet from crashing into the vatican. (ok honestly he was really just saying "the way I handled 9/11" about every other sentence during some debate or interview a couple years ago, long after 2001).

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Rudy_Giuliani#Gun_control.2 Fgun_rights

He appeared on the Charlie Rose Show in 1995 and compared the National Rifle Association with "extremists." He said that the anti-gun control positions of many Republicans are "terrible for states and cities. They're terrible for America."

Guiliani is your archetype Politician who'd whore his own mother out for votes, and the exact same character (that of a charlatan, greedy, hypocritical slimeball) that over the past few decades has put this country in the mess it is now.

stix213
07-15-2011, 6:11 PM
Rudy basically claimed that he personally stopped the 4th 9/11 jet from crashing into the vatican. (ok honestly he was really just saying "the way I handled 9/11" about every other sentence during some debate or interview a couple years ago, long after 2001).

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Rudy_Giuliani#Gun_control.2 Fgun_rights

He appeared on the Charlie Rose Show in 1995 and compared the National Rifle Association with "extremists." He said that the anti-gun control positions of many Republicans are "terrible for states and cities. They're terrible for America."

Guiliani is your archetype Politician who'd whore his own mother out for votes, and the exact same character (that of a charlatan, greedy, hypocritical slimeball) that over the past few decades has put this country in the mess it is now.

I thought the entire point of this thread was that he changed from his previous gun unfriendly position, or did I miss something?

proclone1
07-15-2011, 6:18 PM
'Tiger don't change his stripes. :shrug:

FatalKitty
07-15-2011, 6:28 PM
wait - he things our founding fathers gave us these rights??!?!

uhh... newsflash, they were not "given" to us by anyone. we were born with them... created with them.

Connor P Price
07-15-2011, 6:33 PM
Whether you believe him or not this is a good thing because even if he's full of it, his statements show that we are winning. This displays that historically anti gun politicians are realizing that being anti 2A is political suicide. He may not actually believe what he's saying, but he knows that gun control isn't going to get him elected.

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uyoga
07-15-2011, 6:36 PM
He is still not to be trusted with regards to the Second Amendment.

That leopard has been wearing those spots for far too long.

ed bernay
07-15-2011, 6:38 PM
he is the worst kind of politician...one that has no principles and will say anything to get elected. IMHO, if you vote for Giuliani or Romney you are a fool. If its a choice between one of them or Obama, I'll vote my principles. Yes I know a SCOTUS nominee or 2 is at stake but what really is the difference between the 3 of them? At least future Republican nominees will be aware that triangulation doesn't necessarily mean they will win an election.

rjh4758
07-15-2011, 6:45 PM
Couldn't be he will say whatever he needs to to get votes. nah that couldn't be it.

We have a winner

yellowfin
07-15-2011, 6:45 PM
Cheap fair weather friend at best. This is so convenient and easy for him to say it's ridiculous. If he actually expected for me to believe this and vote for him, then he should have taken this stand and acted upon it in a meaningful way when WE NEEDED HIM TO DO IT as mayor of NYC. Did he? Nope, total opposite. If he believed it then, which I doubt, he is the epitome of a worthless coward as he is now to speak this and have believed the opposite then.

chiselchst
07-15-2011, 6:47 PM
People that are close to him say he is going to run...FWIW.

That's some good news. Regardless of where he was before.

armygunsmith
07-15-2011, 6:53 PM
So.. Progress then? I'll take it.

Josh3239
07-15-2011, 6:55 PM
All politicians support the 2nd Amendment, until there is something they think we shouldn't have like NFA stuff for instance.

Connor P Price
07-15-2011, 6:56 PM
People that are close to him say he is going to run...FWIW.

That's some good news. Regardless of where he was before.

With talk like this, I'd bet on those people being right. I'm not jumping for joy at the opportunity to vote for him though.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

taperxz
07-15-2011, 7:00 PM
Winning hearts and minds folks. Any time you can get an anti to change their stance it's a good thing FWIW.

Hey maybe Fabio got Goosed will be next. I heard Helmke needs a new direction too.

Wernher von Browning
07-15-2011, 7:11 PM
Couldn't be he will say whatever he needs to to get votes. nah that couldn't be it.

Zactly.

When he actually had some power, he didn't say things like this. Now he wants power again. So... why is he saying these things now? Logically, the answer is obvious -- to get elected, and only to get elected, and not because this is what he really believes.

Since this is not a firmly-held belief on his part, it is subject to change at the drop of a hat.

All anyone needs to know about his gun history is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Rudy_Giuliani#Gun_control.2 Fgun_rights

Leopards -- and RINOs -- don't change their spots.

(Later) -- I just saw Yellowfin's post. He's closer to that action than Californians --
"If he actually expected for me to believe this and vote for him, then he should have taken this stand and acted upon it in a meaningful way when WE NEEDED HIM TO DO IT as mayor of NYC. Did he? Nope, total opposite. If he believed it then, which I doubt, he is the epitome of a worthless coward as he is now to speak this and have believed the opposite then. "

Apocalypsenerd
07-15-2011, 7:21 PM
'Tiger don't change his stripes. :shrug:

My opinion of this is that his stripes are those of a politician. Most politicians, say 90% of them, are prostitutes that will do what gets them elected. If they have to get on their knees to get elected, they will. If they have to vote pro-2A, they will.

Their personal opinions are secondary to whatever will keep them in power. If the public supports the 2A, our elected officials will support it as well. Recent years have shown that as our society has drifted into a more pro-2A stance, the politicians have as well.

This is why we must be politically active and voice our concerns. Let the whores in Washington know what we want from them.

2009_gunner
07-15-2011, 7:24 PM
Truly amazing progress. I wonder if Rudy is as stunned to be uttering those words as I am to read them.

GOEX FFF
07-15-2011, 7:31 PM
http://thelifeinexile.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/hell_freezes_over2.jpg

rjh4758
07-15-2011, 7:33 PM
All politicians support the second amendment, but what is thier interpretation of it? The only way to gauge that is by previous actions.

yellowfin
07-15-2011, 7:36 PM
All politicians support the 2nd Amendment, until there is something they think we shouldn't have like NFA stuff for instance.Which means in that case that they don't support it at all. We don't pay them to have an opinion on what they think we shouldn't have, that's not their place under any circumstance whatsoever to restrict. If I can pay for it and I'm not harming anyone then it's mine to have, PERIOD.

unusedusername
07-15-2011, 7:45 PM
Vote on his voting record, not his talking record.

desertdweller
07-15-2011, 7:46 PM
My opinion of this is that his stripes are those of a politician. Most politicians, say 90% of them, are prostitutes that will do what gets them elected. If they have to get on their knees to get elected, they will. If they have to vote pro-2A, they will.


+1 Follow the campaign money and you will see how he votes. Complete whore.

Wasn't this the same clown who went to Arizona and had "undercover" people buy guns through the "gun show loophole" that doesn't exist?

Wernher von Browning
07-15-2011, 7:49 PM
My opinion of this is that his stripes are those of a politician. Most politicians, say 90% of them, are prostitutes that will do what gets them elected. If they have to get on their knees to get elected, they will. If they have to vote pro-2A, they will.

Their personal opinions are secondary to whatever will keep them in power. If the public supports the 2A, our elected officials will support it as well. Recent years have shown that as our society has drifted into a more pro-2A stance, the politicians have as well.

This is why we must be politically active and voice our concerns. Let the whores in Washington know what we want from them.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Have you read this yet? The title says it all. Outstanding book.
http://www.amazon.com/Parliament-Whores-Humorist-Attempts-Government/dp/0802139701/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310787945&sr=8-1

The objective is to elect whores who do what we want them to do, and who, once bought, stay bought.

taperxz
07-15-2011, 7:49 PM
+1 Follow the campaign money and you will see how he votes. Complete whore.

Wasn't this the same clown who went to Arizona and had "undercover" people buy guns through the "gun show loophole" that doesn't exist?

LMAO! Try Bloomberg

joe_sun
07-15-2011, 7:56 PM
Vote on his voting record, not his talking record.

This is what I'm thinking but it's good that he's at least talking the talk right now. We need Pro 2A to be as mainstream as possible.

Drivedabizness
07-15-2011, 7:57 PM
Third-rail politics is WINNING - in combination with general popular understanding of RKBA plus antigun-ism being a political issue falling far, far down the list.

We've transitioned from (a decade ago) a polarized pro-gun/antigun situation to today's holding the feet to the fire of a former metro mayor, and cornering him vocally declare no support of an AW ban - in order to get traction in his candidacy.

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20110715/NEWS0605/707159975

"My views on the second amendment are exactly the same as they are on the First
Amendment, Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth,” he said. “The Second Amendment of
the Constitution is a personal right that has been given to us by our Founding Fathers.
It’s not something that can be tampered with. It’s not something that can be significantly
abridged.”

His first question from the audience, from a guy wearing an NRA cap: Do you support a
so-called assault weapons ban?”

The answer, he said, is no. The answer to Giuliani’s political future will not come until the
end of summer, though he sounded like a candidate vying for Republican and independent
voters throughout the day."

Woot. Large bricks are moving thru the intestinal tracts of the Bradys.

This really isn't even about Giuliani as a candidate or individual. It's much more about the greater nature and framing of the issue, such that a candidate has to hang his hat on it and stay on the right side of our Third Rail.

Nice try, your Honor. The "personal right" didn't come from our Founding Fathers. We got it from our Creator and had it before they ever set pen to paper.

Still, its a lot better than we might have expected.

hoffmang
07-15-2011, 7:58 PM
Just to reiterate - even if it's not believable, it's a strong showing that he must now kowtow.

-Gene

gunsmith
07-15-2011, 8:07 PM
yup, we all know Rudy is giving us what he thinks we want to hear, which is a vast improvement from him thinking we want to hear him spouting crud that made Bill Clinton seem moderate on the gun issue!

I'm an expat NY'er & I HATE HIM!! him against B.O & I guess I have to hold my nose but no way he wins any more then 1 or 2 primaries.

Rossi357
07-15-2011, 8:12 PM
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Have you read this yet? The title says it all. Outstanding book.
http://www.amazon.com/Parliament-Whores-Humorist-Attempts-Government/dp/0802139701/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310787945&sr=8-1

The objective is to elect whores who do what we want them to do, and who, once bought, stay bought.

Politicians are not whores.
When was the last time you got a happy ending with a politician?

wildhawker
07-15-2011, 8:13 PM
Mayor Giuliani, as a former United States Attorney, apparently hasn't forgotten how to read appellate decisions. And he has an open mind.

Good on him.... and I am thinking like Bill that there isn't enough Ex-Lax to move the load that the Brady gang is carrying around right now.

:D

Well, I don't know if I agree. I hear they just took a huge Helmke and feel $200,000 pounds lighter...

Ford8N
07-15-2011, 8:19 PM
Just to reiterate - even if it's not believable, it's a strong showing that he must now kowtow.

-Gene

This^^^ They might not believe in the Second Amendment but they are smart enough to read Heller and know the ramifications of that ruling. Might as will be ahead of the curve and be seen on the winning side.

California on the other hand..... :censored:

Connor P Price
07-15-2011, 8:47 PM
Well, I don't know if I agree. I hear they just took a huge Helmke and feel $200,000 pounds lighter...

Calguns post of the week. I lol'd.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

MolonLabe2008
07-15-2011, 8:51 PM
wait - he things our founding fathers gave us these rights??!?!

uhh... newsflash, they were not "given" to us by anyone. we were born with them... created with them.

As smart as Bill W. claims to be I'm surprised that he didn't catch this.

Rudy is an anti-2nd Amendment liberal RINO and can't be trusted.

Wernher von Browning
07-15-2011, 8:55 PM
Politicians are not whores.
When was the last time you got a happy ending with a politician?

Well, there's...

No. I can't make that list. It's too much of an easy shot.

taperxz
07-15-2011, 8:58 PM
As smart as Bill W. claims to be I'm surprised that he didn't catch this.

Rudy is an anti-2nd Amendment liberal RINO and can't be trusted.

I don't think I have ever heard Bill claim to be smarter than anyone. He certainly is well versed in 2A matters though.

Anchors
07-15-2011, 9:18 PM
So rad that former antis are back-peddling and jumping on the RKBA wagon. I love it!

He says even back here that he supports 2A as a right, but thinks it should be licensed with a written test like the PRIVILEGE known as driving. Hmm...among other things like supporting the Clinton AWB haha.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Rudy_Giuliani_Gun_Control.htm

pointedstick
07-15-2011, 10:14 PM
As smart as Bill W. claims to be I'm surprised that he didn't catch this.

Rudy is an anti-2nd Amendment liberal RINO and can't be trusted.

Of course he is, but that's not the point; all politicians are untrustworthy snakes. What's significant is them kowtowing to us rather than the other side. Politics is a dirty game. You need to take all the allies you can get, even insincere turncoats. RKBA is quickly becoming mainstream, and that helps us in every way. Before, pushing the boundaries meant arguing against impending handgun bans. These days, it means arguing existing SBR and suppressor bans. That's progress!

oni.dori
07-15-2011, 10:21 PM
I too think that this is a HUGE step forward and BIG sign of progress (based on Mr. Giuliani's track record), I still can't help but be skeptical as to whether this is just a face value statement or not.

Scott Connors
07-15-2011, 10:37 PM
Regardless of the depth of Mayor Giuliani's conversion, I think that it's more genuine than that of Gov. Romney, and I welcome it. He's too smart to go looking for trouble.

mossy
07-15-2011, 10:43 PM
wow....i bet the brady bunch is flipping out over this

oni.dori
07-15-2011, 10:52 PM
wow....i bet the brady bunch is flipping out over this

That's the best part, isn't it? :D

gcvt
07-15-2011, 11:45 PM
"My views on the second amendment are exactly the same as they are on the First
Amendment, Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth,” he said. “The Second Amendment of
the Constitution is a personal right that has been given to us by our Founding Fathers.
It’s not something that can be tampered with. It’s not something that can be significantly
abridged."



Read this very carefully.

FullMetalJacket
07-15-2011, 11:54 PM
Just to reiterate - even if it's not believable, it's a strong showing that he must now kowtow.

-Gene
Yep.

The center has moved, and not in the gun-banners' direction.

Shotgun Man
07-16-2011, 1:08 AM
Has he been asked if he's doing a complete 180 from on his past positions on gun control?

I would think it is time for some mea culpas, an acknowledgement that his previous positions and actions were wrong, and a renunciation of his past.

bwiese
07-16-2011, 1:17 AM
Note that I am quoting this less as an indicator of anything about Giuliani himself, but that he feels the situation is such that he can't marginalize us and in fact has to take an anti-soccer-mom position.

It's about the whole *situation* being advanced, not that individual (other than changing position).

oni.dori
07-16-2011, 1:43 AM
Well, I don't know if I agree. I hear they just took a huge Helmke and feel $200,000 pounds lighter...

I think we have just whitnessed the birth of new vernacular for this community. I also think I may feel a Helmke coming on myself...:eek:

nicki
07-16-2011, 1:56 AM
Rudy did good things while he was the NYC mayor, during his admin, NYC had significant reduction in crime.

Problem with Rudy is he turned the city into a "Police State" in the process.

If he is the Republican Nominee, the I will support him over Obama.
Until then, Ron Paul 2012


Nicki

scarville
07-16-2011, 6:58 AM
Politicians are not whores.
When was the last time you got a happy ending with a politician?
A whore provides a service for a price acceptable to all parties involved. The same cannot be said of politicians. A politician provides a service of a superficially similar nature but at a cost so great he needs the medias' help to distribute the vaseline.

yellowfin
07-16-2011, 7:51 AM
Note that I am quoting this less as an indicator of anything about Giuliani himself, but that he feels the situation is such that he can't marginalize us and in fact has to take an anti-soccer-mom position.

It's about the whole *situation* being advanced, not that individual (other than changing position).It's only an advancement in the situation if we don't end up with a hardcore anti 2A person in office once the butt kissing is done. This could simply be that he's acknowledging that this is the password to get in the door to office and that once in he can do as he wishes--that we're stupid enough to believe him saying this will actually mean he'll act according to it.

wchutt
07-16-2011, 8:08 AM
he is the worst kind of politician...one that has no principles and will say anything to get elected. IMHO, if you vote for Giuliani or Romney you are a fool. If its a choice between one of them or Obama, I'll vote my principles. Yes I know a SCOTUS nominee or 2 is at stake but what really is the difference between the 3 of them? At least future Republican nominees will be aware that triangulation doesn't necessarily mean they will win an election.

Are you saying a vote for Obama over either Romney or Giuliani? You are right that SCOTUS nomination is probably the singular most important decision the next pres will make, with Obama it is has been PROVEN that it will be bad, with either of the other two there is at least a chance of a lesser evil. (Not that either would be anywhere on my personal list of desired candidates.)

383green
07-16-2011, 8:20 AM
The Second Amendment of the Constitution is a personal right that has been given to us by our Founding Fathers.

While I'm pleased to see his forced about-face, I can't help but notice that he still has a fundamental misunderstanding about how our concept of rights works.

Mute
07-16-2011, 8:33 AM
I don't trust him either, but this does show how far we've come along in our fight for the 2nd Amendment. In most places (outside of CA obviously), gun control is on the losing side.

almaster666
07-16-2011, 8:42 AM
I have always found that there are two types of politicians: those motivated by ideology and those who just want to get elected at any cost.
Giuliani is part of those who will say anything to get elected. If he found out that to get elected he should be pro-gay marriage and pro legalizing illegal aliens he would. The same way Pelosi would grab an AK with a 100 round drum if she thought it would ensure her election.
What sucks about the two-party system is that we have very little variety in our candidates... If you're on one side, then you have to align yourself with the Party on every friggin issue and this is not good for the voter as our options are limited by what the parties decide.
This bothers me, for example: I agree with the GOP on gun policies, but I agree with the Dems on Economic policy. I believe that reducing our Defense budget would be the best way to reduce our deficit, yet neither Party wants to cut defense spending because they're being so heavily lobbied.
Anyway, don't really know where I was going with this anymore. Except to say that we have no real variety in the political choices that are given to us.

shock
07-16-2011, 9:06 AM
I have always found that there are two types of politicians: those motivated by ideology and those who just want to get elected at any cost.
Giuliani is part of those who will say anything to get elected. If he found out that to get elected he should be pro-gay marriage and pro legalizing illegal aliens he would. The same way Pelosi would grab an AK with a 100 round drum if she thought it would ensure her election.
What sucks about the two-party system is that we have very little variety in our candidates... If you're on one side, then you have to align yourself with the Party on every friggin issue and this is not good for the voter as our options are limited by what the parties decide.
This bothers me, for example: I agree with the GOP on gun policies, but I agree with the Dems on Economic policy. I believe that reducing our Defense budget would be the best way to reduce our deficit, yet neither Party wants to cut defense spending because they're being so heavily lobbied.
Anyway, don't really know where I was going with this anymore. Except to say that we have no real variety in the political choices that are given to us.
that's where a man like ron paul comes in

unflinching principals, and has voted his principals for as long as he has served in congress

really easy to understand where he comes from - personal liberty and the constitution

the most pro 2A candidate imo
wants to bring troops home and end all unconstitutional wars
limit the amount of us meddling
be a good neighbor with the world by trading, not bombing, and most of all not intervening on behalf of corporate interests.

link to make your research easy
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

tankarian
07-16-2011, 9:11 AM
that's where a man like ron paul comes in

unflinching principals, and has voted his principals for as long as he has served in congress

really easy to understand where he comes from - personal liberty and the constitution

the most pro 2A candidate imo
wants to bring troops home and end all unconstitutional wars
limit the amount of us meddling
be a good neighbor with the world by trading, not bombing, and most of all not intervening on behalf of corporate interests.

link to make your research easy
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

:rolleyes:

loose_electron
07-16-2011, 9:25 AM
Political posturing and not much else.... His track record is what you need to look at.

jaymz
07-16-2011, 12:15 PM
While I do believe that it's possible that he he truly has changed his stance, I'm not buying into it until his actions prove that he really means it. Talk is cheap.

almaster666
07-16-2011, 12:24 PM
that's where a man like ron paul comes in

unflinching principals, and has voted his principals for as long as he has served in congress

really easy to understand where he comes from - personal liberty and the constitution

the most pro 2A candidate imo
wants to bring troops home and end all unconstitutional wars
limit the amount of us meddling
be a good neighbor with the world by trading, not bombing, and most of all not intervening on behalf of corporate interests.

link to make your research easy
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/

Yes, I'm very familiar with Ron Paul and am a big fan of his. He is a true conservative and I respect him for that.
I disagree with a certain number of his views because I believe he views capitalism as a utopia, but he is true to his views and he is the only candidate that could make me vote Republican in 2012.
I wish there were more candidates like him on both sides of the political spectrum.
I know that I'm probably an oddball, I am French and currently applying for US citizenship, so my political views probably step outside traditional American political ideals, but my ideal candidate would be someone who strongly respects individual freedoms and non-intervention policies but that could bring a European-like medical system to the US. I know the idea of state-run healthcare system is a herresy to many on here, but I've lived both in the US and in France and I have to say that the quality and cost of healthcare over there is unbeatable. It is the one thing that I would like to see my tax dollars going into (that is, if it were managed reasonably, which is something our Federal government has a very hard time doing).
Anyway, I might get **** for straying off topic, but I just wish that our candidates weren't so bound to Party ideals and give us options, because so far, whether Dem or Rep, we're just voting for whoever seems like a lesser of two evil.

Oh and, Giuliani might not renew the Clinton AW ban, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't allow states (like ours in particular) to further restrict the ownership of such firearms.

proclone1
07-16-2011, 12:27 PM
Has he been asked if he's doing a complete 180 from on his past positions on gun control?

I would think it is time for some mea culpas, an acknowledgement that his previous positions and actions were wrong, and a renunciation of his past.

Definitely. That guy's next question should have been What made you change your mind?

Kid Stanislaus
07-16-2011, 1:45 PM
Couldn't be he will say whatever he needs to to get votes. nah that couldn't be it.

Yeah, I'm sure Giuliani is good for his word, being from New Yawk and all. :rolleyes:

Kid Stanislaus
07-16-2011, 1:48 PM
Guiliani is your archetype Politician who'd whore his own mother out for votes, and the exact same character (that of a charlatan, greedy, hypocritical slimeball) that over the past few decades has put this country in the mess it is now.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

cmaynes
07-16-2011, 1:52 PM
I will only be impressed with Rudy if he goes and tries to wreck Bloombergs anti-gun crusade....

uyoga
07-16-2011, 2:03 PM
Typical politician talk. Anyone notice he left a door open so he can scoot out when the going gets tough?

"My views on the second amendment are exactly the same as they are on the First
Amendment, Second, Third, Fourth and Fifth,” he said. “The Second Amendment of
the Constitution is a personal right that has been given to us by our Founding Fathers.
It’s not something that can be tampered with. It’s not something that can be significantly abridged.”

Kid Stanislaus
07-16-2011, 2:11 PM
Just to reiterate - even if it's not believable, it's a strong showing that he must now kowtow. -Gene

Correct, this is a far cry from his public utterances 20 years ago and shows him to be a political realist (and a hypocrite). Lick our boots yer honor, that's why we wear'm!!:D

Kid Stanislaus
07-16-2011, 2:14 PM
Well, I don't know if I agree. I hear they just took a huge Helmke and feel $200,000 pounds lighter...


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!:D:eek::D:eek:

Anchors
07-16-2011, 2:15 PM
:rolleyes:

Yeah. I agree with the first half, but then when he got to the "unconstitutional wars based on corporate interests" part I started :rolleyes: too.

I do like Ron Paul though, even if I disagree with some of his policies.
He is one of the few politicians that seems genuine and I would support him for president.

chead
07-16-2011, 2:25 PM
I too think that this is a HUGE step forward and BIG sign of progress (based on Mr. Giuliani's track record), I still can't help but be skeptical as to whether this is just a face value statement or not.

It doesn't really matter, getting that language out there as a viable mainstream political position is good enough for me.