View Full Version : Is "Gun Rights Campaign" a legitmate org?

07-14-2011, 11:09 AM
Last week I received an unsolicited phone call from Gun Rights Campaign. The caller said all the right stuff and wanted me to donate $100 or more to the cause. Said I couldn't afford that and got the number down to $15. They wanted me to pay with a credit card, but totally refused that option. So today got the letter from them with an invoice for $15.

I googled them today and don't see much under their name + scam. But I never heard of them and wonder if anyone here knows if they are a legitimate gun rights organization?

07-14-2011, 11:12 AM
I'm at least somewhat involved with gun rights movement and I've never heard of them.
It appears to be an offshoot of "AmeriPAC".

- Have they gotten any laws changed?
- Have they won or are they current litigating any cases?

Methinks it's a general likely conservative-leaning PAC that wants to earn some gun money on the side.

Save it and send to the NRA, CRPA, SAF, CGF

Wernher von Browning
07-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Whatever you do, DON'T pay them unless and until you can clear up who / where they are. This doesn't just smell, this stinks of scam.

Most of these telephone solicitations are scams; they may indeed pass some of the money taken in to the alleged charity etc., but 80 or 90 percent goes straight into their own pockets for "administering" the campaign.

Do you have any info from the mail -- name, address, etc? We'd sure like to know...

07-14-2011, 11:21 AM
Whoops, it turns out this is a side enterprise of Alan Gottlieb of SAF.

Frankly, I think if you were donating gun money to a Gottlieb enterprise, it'd better to give it to SAF.

Wernher von Browning
07-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Is it this outfit?

If that's the same outfit (and not an impostor), here's the domain name registration info.
Name behind it is Alan Gottlieb. According to Wikipedia, founder of SAF.

Bottom line, even if this call was legit, I would still donate directly to SAF or NRA or Calguns and not to a boiler-room operation.

(Edit: hey, that's interesting, it puts emoticons in for some of the odder punctuation. I'm not gonna bother cleaning those out.)

Domain ID:D156761466-LROR
Created On:29-Jul-2009 23:43:43 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Jun-2011 15:49:09 UTC
Expiration Date:29-Jul-2012 23:43:43 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Registrant ID:CR20918096
Registrant Name:Alan Gottlieb
Registrant Organization:Gun Rights Campaign, American Political Action Committee
Registrant Street1:12500 NE Tenth Place
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Bellevue
Registrant State/Province:Washington
Registrant Postal Code:98005
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.8005868563
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:contactus@GunRightsCampaign.org
Admin ID:CR20918099
Admin Name:Alan Gottlieb
Admin Organization:Gun Rights Campaign, American Political Action Committee
Admin Street1:12500 NE Tenth Place
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Bellevue
Admin State/Province:Washington
Admin Postal Code:98005
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.8005868563
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:contactus@GunRightsCampaign.org
Tech ID:CR20918098
Tech Name:Alan Gottlieb
Tech Organization:Gun Rights Campaign, American Political Action Committee
Tech Street1:12500 NE Tenth Place
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Bellevue
Tech State/Province:Washington
Tech Postal Code:98005
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.8005868563
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:contactus@GunRightsCampaign.org

Wernher von Browning
07-14-2011, 11:25 AM
Whoops, it turns out this is a side enterprise of Alan Gottlieb of SAF.

Frankly, I think if you were donating gun money to a Gottlieb enterprise, it'd better to give it to SAF.

Ya beat me to it.

07-14-2011, 11:25 AM
They keep harassing me on the phone for money, then sending me "bills" saying I owe them money because I vaguely stated I might be willing to send them money if they gave me some information relating to their organization.

They assumed this meant I agreed to give them $100 apparently.

All in all, I'd not donate to them ever based on that experience, I stick with the tried and true organizations.

Wernher von Browning
07-14-2011, 11:35 AM
If they really are harassing you, tell them -- once -- to stop. After that, if you can find a local entity on whom to serve papers, you have the ability to sue in small claims court, with a high likelihood of collecting. No, they do not get a free pass because they're a "charity" -- They get a free pass to make ONE call, after which they are obligated to honor your wishes not to be bothered.

I've done it with cold-call mortgage refi (working out of boiler rooms in India, for local offices) and carpet cleaners. Works.

Right now I'm logging the calls from a collection agency in NJ (I don't owe anybody, anything, and never have -- except for my mortgage which I have paid on time for 24 years). We determined that they have the wrong name, wrong address, wrong social security number. I told them not to call. No effect. This behavior is documented by other people online, so I know this is not an isolated glitch. I know their numbers so I never pick up the phone. Now I'm logging the calls to build a case -- at $500 per violation (statutory minimum), I'm up to 25 logged calls so far in the past month and a half, which way exceeds the max claim in small claims court. Since they're speaking to a message recorder, they have no expectation that this is a private communication (otherwise California requires both parties consent to recording) and I can play the tape in court.

How much can you get? Well, I collected a total of $2800 in three cases, the biggie was $2K settled before trial.

It's more fun than pulling the wings off flies.

07-14-2011, 11:35 AM
You're giving them a gift. You don't have to negotiate the amount of a gift you're giving. Give them whatever you want.

Who are the people associated with this org? Have you ever heard of them? What have they done? What are they going to do with your money?

Sounds like BS to me - I'd suggest giving whatever it is you think you can afford to NRA, GOA, SAF, CRPA, or CGF. Everyone's got their favorite org but at least all of those guys are real.

ETA: Ok, Alan Gottlieb is a real guy, but it sounds like these guys are using questionable tactics. If they made you feel like you're a jerk for not giving them $100, I think you should give them $0, because that's BS. You owe them nothing.

07-14-2011, 11:36 AM
Maybe we should set up a website called something like "SensibleGunLaws.com" and solicit money. Of course, our idea of what's sensible might need to be not be too clear in the solicitation . . . :D

Added: Actually, that site might be take, it's showing "Under Construction."

Yep, owned by someone called Raffy Kouyoumdjian. Ever heard of him?

SensibleGunLaws.net is available . . . . .

07-14-2011, 11:42 AM
cold call answer 1st time, 2nd time if they are persistent I use a boat air horn, have not gotten a 3rd call. Don't know why.

07-14-2011, 11:48 AM
Asked and answered - discussion of how to deter callers is OT.