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logicsalmon
07-13-2011, 1:57 PM
Hey guys, new to the forum and new to the hobby.

I'm going to be making a trip to Nor Cal very soon and was planning on going to the range with my buddies up north. My father owns a registered Taurus handgun down here in LA County and I am 21+. He doesn't shoot it much so for now I've been tinkering with it and would like to bring it in a secure case in my trunk to Nor Cal.

I've read on calguns that this is okay so long as I am 21+, and allowed to handle handguns. I do not have my HSC and the gun is not registered under my name. The trip will only be a weekend.

Under #5 of the FAQ of the DOJ, it states:

"Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category [PDF 10 kb / 1 pg] and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction [PDF 481 kb / 2 pg] and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

(PC section 12078(c))"

I'm under the impression that this is if he gifted it to me but what if I just wanted to take it up north for a weekend? And can anyone site there answers? I just feel more comfortable with that knowledge in hand. Thanks in advance.

Connor P Price
07-13-2011, 2:00 PM
You need a valid HSC in order to have somebody lend a handgun to you. He can lend it to you for a period of up to 30 days without needing to transfer it to you.

Southwest Chuck
07-13-2011, 2:03 PM
You need a valid HSC in order to have somebody lend a handgun to you. He can lend it to you for a period of up to 30 days without needing to transfer it to you.

+1 ^^ Other than that, I think you're good to go as long as you abide by the transport rules.

wash
07-13-2011, 2:07 PM
If he gave you the gun, you have to fill out paperwork to transfer it to yourself, I think it is a $19 fee.

If you are borrowing it, you need an HSC and you can only borrow it infrequently for periods less than 30 days.

Short story, get an HSC. If the question of ownership comes up with a police officer or something, say "I'm borrowing it from my dad". If you are asked anything else, ask to speak with your lawyer before you say anything else.

Do not get fooled in to saying something self incriminating.

RRichie09
07-13-2011, 2:13 PM
Do not get fooled in to saying something self incriminating.

Like, "I borrow it all the time, it's no big deal."

logicsalmon
07-13-2011, 2:30 PM
haha ^glad that never crossed my mind. Thanks for the quick responses, appreciate it.

Anchors
07-13-2011, 4:43 PM
The HSC is only $25. It is BS and illegal, but for now it is worth it to just suck it up and get one. Plus you can buy your own handgun after that :]

proclone1
07-13-2011, 6:02 PM
The HSC is only $25. It is BS and illegal, but for now it is worth it to just suck it up and get one. Plus you can buy your own handgun after that :]

and it takes < 10min to take and all questions are common sense answers. Only annoying thing (besides $25 fee...) is few stores will laminate it for you.

ChuangTzu
07-13-2011, 6:23 PM
You need a valid HSC in order to have somebody lend a handgun to you. He can lend it to you for a period of up to 30 days without needing to transfer it to you.

This means that a non-resident can't borrow a handgun in California, correct?

Connor P Price
07-13-2011, 7:08 PM
This means that a non-resident can't borrow a handgun in California, correct?

I'm not sure if non residents can get an hsc or not. Where's CHS? He should know.

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Ctwo
07-13-2011, 7:08 PM
You need a valid HSC in order to have somebody lend a handgun to you. He can lend it to you for a period of up to 30 days without needing to transfer it to you.

You need an HSC? Where is this stated? What about those that have had firearms for decades that are not registered.

So, if I take my dad to the range, he could not shoot my pistol since he is not licensed by the state?

Cokebottle
07-13-2011, 7:34 PM
You need an HSC? Where is this stated? What about those that have had firearms for decades that are not registered.

So, if I take my dad to the range, he could not shoot my pistol since he is not licensed by the state?

The HSC is not a "license". My HSC will expire next year... I won't "renew" it until I'm ready to buy another gun (which will probably be about 2 weeks after it expires.) The HSC is required to receive a gun via FFL transfer or intrafamilial transfer (gift), or for a "loan". The HSC is not required for you to go to the range with your father and him shooting it in your immediate presence.

Cokebottle
07-13-2011, 7:35 PM
I'm not sure if non residents can get an hsc or not. Where's CHS? He should know.

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No reason they couldn't... Take the test and pay their $25.

Ctwo
07-13-2011, 8:18 PM
Alright, I won't be lazy for once.


Penal Code 12071(b)(8)(B).

(B) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun shall be delivered
unless the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the
handgun presents a handgun safety certificate to the dealer.


Any code or case law that defines "loaned"?


According to the DOJ's FAQ:

Are there any minimum qualifications/requirements for a person
who wants to take the Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) test?

The only requirements are that the Handgun Safety Certificate
(HSC) applicant must be at least 18 years of age and must
present clear evidence of identity and age by presenting a
California Driver's License or California Department of Motor
Vehicles Identification Card.


Is the DOJ FAQ law or just opinion? I imagine it would carry some weight in a court of law as I assume it is a legal publication from the department.

So, non-residences are not allowed to borrow handguns in CA.

Our Wiki does not seem to say anything about a 30-day "loan", so 30 days or 30 seconds seem the same to me.

Ctwo
07-13-2011, 8:30 PM
I've heard onecle is reliable? I've found similar language, but it seems to be to dealers, and a different part:


(C) Commencing January 1, 2003, no handgun may be delivered unless
the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned the firearm
presents documentation indicating that he or she is a California
resident. Satisfactory documentation shall include a utility bill
from within the last three months, a residential lease, a property
deed, or military permanent duty station orders indicating assignment
within this state, or other evidence of residency as permitted by
the Department of Justice. The firearms dealer shall retain a
photocopy of the documentation as proof of compliance with this
requirement.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12071.html

Connor P Price
07-13-2011, 8:55 PM
No reason they couldn't... Take the test and pay their $25.

That's what I was figuring.

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mrdd
07-13-2011, 9:23 PM
Loaning of firearms between unlicensed persons is covered by:

12078. (d) (1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the
infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known
to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30
days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing
January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid
handgun safety certificate.

Loaning does not require an HSC under very specific conditions:

12078. (d) (2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of
Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm where all of
the following conditions exist:
(A) The person loaning the firearm is at all times within the
presence of the person being loaned the firearm.
(B) The loan is for a lawful purpose.
(C) The loan does not exceed three days in duration.
(D) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited by
state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or
purchasing a firearm.
(E) The person loaning the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(F) The person being loaned the firearm is 18 years of age or
older.

Ctwo
07-13-2011, 10:03 PM
very much appreciated mrdd...my wiki skilz are quite lacking.