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View Full Version : carrying a handgun in a pickup...?


mzimmers
07-13-2011, 9:05 AM
...I've owned a pickup for years, but it had a lockable tool box in the bed where I carried my handguns. I've recently removed the tool box, so could someone give me a refresher on the legal options for transporting a handgun in a truck?

Thanks.

Rock6.3
07-13-2011, 9:07 AM
Unloaded, in a locked container which is not the glove box nor center console.

CHS
07-13-2011, 10:34 AM
Unloaded, in a locked container which is not the glove box nor center console.

Yup. That.

Also, ammo can be inside the same container. If ammo is outside the same container it does not have to be locked. Loaded magazines can also be in the truck and/or the same container as the firearm as long as they aren't in the firearm itself.

Jason P
07-13-2011, 10:54 AM
I keep a lockbox on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, loaded magazines are in the box with the gun.

Librarian
07-13-2011, 11:07 AM
I keep a lockbox on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, loaded magazines are in the box with the gun.

I believe that part is cutting the 'locked container' concept too finely.

taperxz
07-13-2011, 11:11 AM
I keep a lockbox on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, loaded magazines are in the box with the gun.

Thats like having a bullet button with a magnet stuck to the end of it so you dont need a tool to remove the mag!!

paul0660
07-13-2011, 11:11 AM
If not in a school zone, in plain sight, unloaded.

Ctwo
07-13-2011, 11:15 AM
Something about concealed magazine...?

Empty or loaded mag under the seat?

dantodd
07-13-2011, 11:17 AM
Something about concealed magazine...?

Nothing to worry about as long as the gun is in a locked container. It is conceivable that a concealed magazine could cause drama if you are open carrying a firearm. Even there it is fairly unlikely and open carrying magazines is done out of an abundance of caution.

Jyruiz
07-13-2011, 2:27 PM
I have a pickup also, can a wooden box with a lock be ok? Also, does this law also pertain to long guns?

CHS
07-13-2011, 2:39 PM
I have a pickup also, can a wooden box with a lock be ok?


The law just says "fully enclosed container", so yeah a wooden box with a lock should be fine.


Also, does this law also pertain to long guns?

Generally, no. However, the federal gun-free school zone law says that long guns should be in a gun rack or otherwise locked up while traveling through a GFSZ.

SJgunguy24
07-13-2011, 2:40 PM
I had a push button combo lock box that I mounted in my truck. Kept 2 loaded mags in the door and an extra box of ammo in the glove box.

Jyruiz
07-13-2011, 2:51 PM
The law just says "fully enclosed container", so yeah a wooden box with a lock should be fine.



Generally, no. However, the federal gun-free school zone law says that long guns should be in a gun rack or otherwise locked up while traveling through a GFSZ.

Thanks for the info.

Jason P
07-13-2011, 2:54 PM
I believe that part is cutting the 'locked container' concept too finely.

I plan on pulling the key out if I see blue lights:)

pTa
07-13-2011, 3:00 PM
Locking clipboard/
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41V4uHpX3aL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
under my seat/

Ctwo
07-13-2011, 3:08 PM
Nothing to worry about as long as the gun is in a locked container. It is conceivable that a concealed magazine could cause drama if you are open carrying a firearm. Even there it is fairly unlikely and open carrying magazines is done out of an abundance of caution.

Maybe it was in the context of UOC, but I got the idea that if I just had a loaded mag in my pocket, no gun, I could be charged with concealed firearm.

triplestack3
07-13-2011, 3:10 PM
I plan on pulling the key out if I see blue lights:)

Side to side movement can be observed as an attempt to conceal contraband and is probable cause for a search.

Anchors
07-13-2011, 3:15 PM
Side to side movement can be observed as an attempt to conceal contraband and is probable cause for a search.

"Furtive movements".
Possibly one of the worst and most abused reasons to establish PC, but it is what it is. And yes, if I was a cop and saw you throwing crap around in the cab I would think you were a junkie stashing dope/weapons/etc too.

dantodd
07-13-2011, 3:25 PM
Maybe it was in the context of UOC, but I got the idea that if I just had a loaded mag in my pocket, no gun, I could be charged with concealed firearm.

With no gun you are definitely good to go. If you buy a mag at a store don't they just throw it in a bag and give it to you to walk out of the store? It comes from case law (I believe) that says if any part of the gun is concealed the whole gun is considered concealed. If you don't have a gun on you the magazine isn't part of the gun.

Jason P
07-13-2011, 3:36 PM
"Furtive movements".
Possibly one of the worst and most abused reasons to establish PC, but it is what it is. And yes, if I was a cop and saw you throwing crap around in the cab I would think you were a junkie stashing dope/weapons/etc too.

To paraphrase your own words, that is foolishness. I have no intent in letting anyone search my truck. A locked box is just that. There is no side-to-side movement required for me to remove my key.

dhyayi
07-16-2011, 4:11 PM
Locking clipboard/
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41V4uHpX3aL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
under my seat/

This stuff is awesome....need to have one. Probably on amazon ?

http://hugthebaby.com/nossl/j/J.gif http://hugthebaby.com/nossl/A/f.gif

ivsamhell
07-16-2011, 4:35 PM
padlock around the handle of the factory glock case works for me.

mzimmers
07-16-2011, 4:35 PM
Regarding the point about how it can't be the glove box or a console...does this imply that if I were to fasten a case to the inside of the truck, it would then be considered another console? I was thinking about putting a biometric-lock case somewhere in the truck.

taperxz
07-16-2011, 4:52 PM
Regarding the point about how it can't be the glove box or a console...does this imply that if I were to fasten a case to the inside of the truck, it would then be considered another console? I was thinking about putting a biometric-lock case somewhere in the truck.

That would be OK.

taperxz
07-16-2011, 4:53 PM
In fact it would be no different than having a box bolted to your truck for tools/guns/whatever.

Anchors
07-16-2011, 5:14 PM
Exactly.
I believe the "console" refers to a factory center container made of plastic with a cheap lock on it.

I don't think ripping that out and bolting a safe where it was even makes the new safe a "center console of glove box".

paul0660
07-16-2011, 5:26 PM
Exactly.
I believe the "console" refers to a factory center container made of plastic with a cheap lock on it.

I don't think ripping that out and bolting a safe where it was even makes the new safe a "center console of glove box".

It says "the" glove or utility box.

There are otherwise smart people who think bolting a box somewhere makes it a center console. Otherwise smart people have listened to them, and FUD has grown. The intent of the law is actually pretty clear from the legistlative history.

Lostsheep
07-16-2011, 5:28 PM
In fact it would be no different than having a box bolted to your truck for tools/guns/whatever.

Exactly.
I believe the "console" refers to a factory center container made of plastic with a cheap lock on it.

I don't think ripping that out and bolting a safe where it was even makes the new safe a "center console of glove box".


It seems that everytime a locked container question pops up, sooner or later the question of bolting it down comes into the fray. Is there a definition in the PC that states what a console or glove box is?

I drive an open air jeep and I NEVER leave it unattended while transporting because I am afraid to bolt something down thus making it a "glove box".

taperxz
07-16-2011, 5:35 PM
It seems that everytime a locked container question pops up, sooner or later the question of bolting it down comes into the fray. Is there a definition in the PC that states what a console or glove box is?

I drive an open air jeep and I NEVER leave it unattended while transporting because I am afraid to bolt something down thus making it a "glove box".

The law says "the glove or utility box", not tool box, gun safe,ect. My interpretation is factory enclosures of the vehicle not including an isolated trunk which is legal.

Anchors
07-16-2011, 6:01 PM
It says "the" glove or utility box.

There are otherwise smart people who think bolting a box somewhere makes it a center console. Otherwise smart people have listened to them, and FUD has grown. The intent of the law is actually pretty clear from the legistlative history.

That is what I'm saying.
I have a safe that is about half the size of a mini-fridge. Thinking about bolting that somewhere in my car. I think it would be pretty cool.

The law says "the glove or utility box", not tool box, gun safe,ect. My interpretation is factory enclosures of the vehicle not including an isolated trunk which is legal.

That seems like a logical interpretation, which as we all know has no relevance when it comes to firearms regulation.
But I'm with you on this. I think any jury or judge would agree that a locked safe isn't a center console lol.

paul0660
07-16-2011, 6:05 PM
That seems like a logical interpretation, which as we all know has no relevance when it comes to firearms regulation.
But I'm with you on this. I think any jury or judge would agree that a locked safe isn't a center console lol.

Depends on which "Subject Matter Expert" the prosecution digs up.

Never mind.

CessnaDriver
07-16-2011, 6:16 PM
Most handguns come in those cheap plastic containers with the little holes for a lock inside the handhold corner...

Good enough right?

How secure are these locked containers required to be?

taperxz
07-16-2011, 6:23 PM
Most handguns come in those cheap plastic containers with the little holes for a lock inside the handhold corner...

Good enough right?

How secure are these locked containers required to be?

Put it this way, for my HG I use a soft container that has an actual lock on the zipper. GTG. Not a pad lock but an actual keyed locking zipper.

Librarian
07-16-2011, 6:23 PM
Most handguns come in those cheap plastic containers with the little holes for a lock inside the handhold corner...

Good enough right?

How secure are these locked containers required to be?

No guidance but common sense on 'how secure'. My advice: if you have any fear at all about claiming 'locked secure case' to LEO, pick something better. If you, sober, think Officer Friendly would look at your case and think 'OK, that's good enough' then probably it would be.

fleegman
07-16-2011, 6:56 PM
"Furtive movements".
Possibly one of the worst and most abused reasons to establish PC, but it is what it is. And yes, if I was a cop and saw you throwing crap around in the cab I would think you were a junkie stashing dope/weapons/etc too.

Stuff and nonsense. I also routinely have my lock-box on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, and I ALWAYS WILL. Reaching over with a hand to remove it as you pull over WILL NOT BE NOTICED by any cop. You aren't thrashing about within the car for Chrisakes. I make more movement to get my license and registration ready, and that will be noticed, but I will have them ready before the cop gets to my window.

taperxz
07-16-2011, 7:06 PM
Stuff and nonsense. I also routinely have my lock-box on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, and I ALWAYS WILL. Reaching over with a hand to remove it as you pull over WILL NOT BE NOTICED by any cop. You aren't thrashing about within the car for Chrisakes. I make more movement to get my license and registration ready, and that will be noticed, but I will have them ready before the cop gets to my window.

Here is your problem, IS IT a locked container with the key in it?

taperxz
07-16-2011, 7:08 PM
What if you get into an accident? Do you really want to wake up in the hospital answering questions about your illegally concealed weapon?

GMG
07-16-2011, 7:16 PM
Truck with a shell that is locked is OK for storage of Rifle and ammo is OK?.

Haven't read all the posts to this thread.

Oceanbob
07-16-2011, 7:19 PM
padlock around the handle of the factory glock case works for me.

No offense (yeah, sure) but that idea is a NO GO for me. Who wants a locked case that SCREAMS ....GUN..!

Expect to get pulled out of the car when a Police officer spots your GLOCK pistol case. Also, expect to GET HANDCUFFED on the CURB while they use the GLOCK CASE as probably cause to SEARCH you entire car.

How much trouble are you asking for..?.

Get a briefcase at STAPLEs with combo locks on it. Or a Clipboard that can be locked. Or a NETbook case that can be locked.

Refuse a search; once you admit you have a weapon (or a GLOCK CASE which is obvious) the Police have a right to do an 'E' search of that case.

While they do the E search, they will handcuff you and set you on the CURB while they Rape your car and it's contents.

Get a clue.
Here are some valid legal alternatives:

Glock 29 unloaded with two loaded magazines:
Netbook case from Target..$18 bucks

http://i55.tinypic.com/xcoye9.jpg

Legally locked up with a combo lock. Doesn't scream GUN to anybody.
Perfectly legal to transport on your front seat.
http://i55.tinypic.com/256bq06.jpg

Another alternative from Staples..A locked Clipboard. Perfectly legal to carry on your lap if you desire.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ljkiso.jpg

Notice the weapon has no ammo inserted into the magazine. It's fine to carry loaded magazines in the same locked container.

This also does not scream GUN to anybody. !
Closed and locked with a wally world combo lock. Perfectly legal.

http://i52.tinypic.com/igdohu.jpg

Think about it.

Be well
Bob

taperxz
07-16-2011, 7:38 PM
Who cares what it screams? A corvette is fast, does that mean you were speeding? A locked case is a locked case no matter what is in it. LE without probable cause can't look in it. Think about it!

paul0660
07-16-2011, 7:45 PM
LE without probable cause can't look in it.

Tricky with the E check. Oceanbob does indeed like his kit more than a man should, but he is on the right track.

Oceanbob
07-16-2011, 7:47 PM
Who cares what it screams? A corvette is fast, does that mean you were speeding? A locked case is a locked case no matter what is in it. LE without probable cause can't look in it. Think about it!

Because they can use the GLOCK box as probable cause to do an E search. That's why.

The less GUN profile you have on a stop the better. Unless you like to sit handcuffed on the curb while two or three police cruisers show up to tear apart your car.

YouTube is your friend.

5thgen4runner
07-16-2011, 7:56 PM
Let me ask again if I had my hg on the seat in plain site with out a mag in it it's legal? I made a thread about it but this is making me doubt myself.

Decoligny
07-16-2011, 7:57 PM
A locked Glock case should always contain a bologna sandwich, or a removable hard drive, or some other non-gun item. When the officer forces it open, clear 4A violation. Lawsuit time. Gene is waiting for just such an occurance.

A gun case does not mean you even own a gun. I have seen empty gun cases for sale at garage sales.

I have an old Craftsman tool case that I use for my fishing tackle.

A case says nothing about its actual contents.

Librarian
07-16-2011, 8:14 PM
Let me ask again if I had my hg on the seat in plain site with out a mag in it it's legal? I made a thread about it but this is making me doubt myself.

Presuming no round in the chamber, yes, you can do that. It's Unloaded Open Carry - neither loaded nor concealed - and as such violates no laws, until you drive into a school zone.

You could expect some LEO interaction on the practice if it should happen you had a field encounter with an officer or deputy.

5thgen4runner
07-16-2011, 8:27 PM
Presuming no round in the chamber, yes, you can do that. It's Unloaded Open Carry - neither loaded nor concealed - and as such violates no laws, until you drive into a school zone.

You could expect some LEO interaction on the practice if it should happen you had a field encounter with an officer or deputy.

thank you...im just thinking this on long road trips.

taperxz
07-16-2011, 8:30 PM
Because they can use the GLOCK box as probable cause to do an E search. That's why.

The less GUN profile you have on a stop the better. Unless you like to sit handcuffed on the curb while two or three police cruisers show up to tear apart your car.

YouTube is your friend.


Your statement would be incorrect especially if the case has a lock on it.

taperxz
07-16-2011, 8:33 PM
Presuming no round in the chamber, yes, you can do that. It's Unloaded Open Carry - neither loaded nor concealed - and as such violates no laws, until you drive into a school zone.

You could expect some LEO interaction on the practice if it should happen you had a field encounter with an officer or deputy.

I think your statement is spot on except when traveling in more rural parts of the state. Many LEOs are aware of UOC at least in these areas but again no slam dunk on that.

Anchors
07-16-2011, 8:48 PM
Put it this way, for my HG I use a soft container that has an actual lock on the zipper. GTG. Not a pad lock but an actual keyed locking zipper.

Like a deposit cash bag?
I had one when I was a kid, thought it was awesome. Wish I still had it. I think it would suffice. The lock is damn near unbreakable, the zipper is big and tough, but the canvas could be knifed open. It'll keep the honest folks out though.
http://image.become.com/imageserver/s8/923606168-75-75-5-32/mmf-locking-bank-bag-of-nylon-fabric.jpg

Stuff and nonsense. I also routinely have my lock-box on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, and I ALWAYS WILL. Reaching over with a hand to remove it as you pull over WILL NOT BE NOTICED by any cop. You aren't thrashing about within the car for Chrisakes. I make more movement to get my license and registration ready, and that will be noticed, but I will have them ready before the cop gets to my window.

I'm still under the belief that this violates the law (unlocked concealed carry), but I might be wrong.
Side note: Getting your license and registration ready is actually not good for most cops. They would rather you keep your hands on the wheel/dash/window and not move around until they get there to watch you go for the paperwork.
Ask any cop and I'm sure they will confirm this. Not that it is illegal to get your stuff ready and not that it will cause problems, but I'm just telling you what I think officers prefer.

Here is your problem, IS IT a locked container with the key in it?

I don't think it is either.

What if you get into an accident? Do you really want to wake up in the hospital answering questions about your illegally concealed weapon?

Good point.

A locked Glock case should always contain a bologna sandwich, or a removable hard drive, or some other non-gun item. When the officer forces it open, clear 4A violation. Lawsuit time. Gene is waiting for just such an occurance.

A gun case does not mean you even own a gun. I have seen empty gun cases for sale at garage sales.

I have an old Craftsman tool case that I use for my fishing tackle.

A case says nothing about its actual contents.

Just gave me a new idea for a Glock case and bringing my lunch to work haha.
That is great.
No one will mistake my lunch for theirs, that is for sure.

thank you...im just thinking this on long road trips.

How are you going to make sure you aren't in a school zone on a long road trip?

tintguy
07-16-2011, 9:41 PM
I've got a question with all of this talk of a lock container. Why is a car passenger compartment not considered a lock container? I mean if you have your handgun on the front seat and the cars parked with lock doors, that's legal as a lock container. What's the difference if your driving around? Say if you unplugged your door lock switches and you have a car alarm that locks and unlocks the doors with the ignition switch. Every time you start the car you lock your container with the keys. The definition of a locked container is if you have to use a key or combo to open it. Hmmm... maybe I had a few too many beers but what do you guys think? Can a passenger compartment of a car be considered a locked container?

sorensen440
07-16-2011, 9:44 PM
I keep a lockbox on the passenger seat with the key in the lock, loaded magazines are in the box with the gun.
I prefer to use this style lock with all but one number unlocked
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QWKTSKFAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/CpCwoa3hIk1N3aHiY8hdsMS5_y6hPZkVx0ljo8iIXkqJXJ0kCG HYEXYsu23mMR2FsKPfhoQOOwvcrd4K7o8Uot2YZ0GYkd4fFBDO fqEsZXc3-lJpcq2TgLfyJi4SEdU2XkXFa1QdtW6MVLMDionrFbnGqnPria8 nwzu5wGnDhXkZfYt67WmSefc7ZTI3HaL1hDo2g8AF2b2Gnf7lp LO7ekk

Librarian
07-16-2011, 10:19 PM
I've got a question with all of this talk of a lock container. Why is a car passenger compartment not considered a lock container? I mean if you have your handgun on the front seat and the cars parked with lock doors, that's legal as a lock container. What's the difference if your driving around? Say if you unplugged your door lock switches and you have a car alarm that locks and unlocks the doors with the ignition switch. Every time you start the car you lock your container with the keys. The definition of a locked container is if you have to use a key or combo to open it. Hmmm... maybe I had a few too many beers but what do you guys think? Can a passenger compartment of a car be considered a locked container?

No.

All this 'locked container' stuff comes from PC 12026.1, and the 'trunk' is mentioned there. (1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.

This is not anything logical, it's what is in the law.

See the wiki article on transporting -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

tintguy
07-16-2011, 10:28 PM
Thanks Librarian are you sure you not some AI program.

Librarian
07-16-2011, 10:48 PM
Thanks Librarian are you sure you not some AI program.

Not tonight!

fleegman
07-17-2011, 5:37 AM
I'm still under the belief that this violates the law (unlocked concealed carry), but I might be wrong.

Frankly, I don't care. Even with a key inserted, it is still LOCKED. I will go only so far to keep myself to a disadvantage to a criminal.

Side note: Getting your license and registration ready is actually not good for most cops. They would rather you keep your hands on the wheel/dash/window and not move around until they get there to watch you go for the paperwork.
Ask any cop and I'm sure they will confirm this. Not that it is illegal to get your stuff ready and not that it will cause problems, but I'm just telling you what I think officers prefer

Again, I DON'T CARE what any particular cop may like. I don't read minds. In any event, my papers will be ready long before he gets to my window. I still remember an incident when I lived in Tacoma, WA. A female police officer pulled a car over for a traffic violation. After she asked the driver for his registration, she shot him in the chest (he survived). Why? BECAUSE HE REACHED FOR "SOMETHING" IN THE GLOVEBOX AFTER SHE ASKED FOR HIS PAPERS. There were no weapons. The shooting was considered justified. If cops are going to be this stupid, I will always have my paperwork already in hand before he gets to my window.

SJgunguy24
07-17-2011, 7:10 PM
I had a version of this box http://titangunvault.com/ mounted in my truck. I modified the bracket so I could just unlock it and toss it in my backpack. I carried 2 mags in the door, all I did was hit 4 numbers with my right hand and grab the mag with my left. Done, armed and 100% legit, it's easy to do.

Anchors
07-18-2011, 6:34 PM
I prefer to use this style lock with all but one number unlocked
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41QWKTSKFAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/CpCwoa3hIk1N3aHiY8hdsMS5_y6hPZkVx0ljo8iIXkqJXJ0kCG HYEXYsu23mMR2FsKPfhoQOOwvcrd4K7o8Uot2YZ0GYkd4fFBDO fqEsZXc3-lJpcq2TgLfyJi4SEdU2XkXFa1QdtW6MVLMDionrFbnGqnPria8 nwzu5wGnDhXkZfYt67WmSefc7ZTI3HaL1hDo2g8AF2b2Gnf7lp LO7ekk

I would if it wasn't a TSA lock. It might sound :TFH:, but I refuse to use anything TSA-approved for my stuff, much less my guns.
Hell, you can't even lock your guns with a TSA lock when you fly!! You have to use one that no one but YOU can access.

I had a version of this box http://titangunvault.com/ mounted in my truck. I modified the bracket so I could just unlock it and toss it in my backpack. I carried 2 mags in the door, all I did was hit 4 numbers with my right hand and grab the mag with my left. Done, armed and 100% legit, it's easy to do.

Damn it better be good for the $300 price tag! haha.