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Condorguns
07-12-2011, 6:53 PM
:nono:I have now spent the last 6 hours fielding phone calls from worried customers about this Obama long gun reporting system. I have had customers willing to cancel orders if I was going to report the fact that he was buying matching rifles for him and his son ( and $3000.00) loss.

Enough is enough. My fingers are crossed this gets shot down. Until that day, or the day this lame idea comes to a real vote and includes all states not just us nasty close to Mexico states, my answer is NO.

You want my records they are right where they have been for 40 years. You are free to dig through all of them, but I will not report..end of story. I follow all of your rules...but this one goes to far.

ATF has my address..I could use the vacation..please bring pink handcuffs...a girl has to have her standards.

Torrey Harris
Owner
Condor Gun Shop
Serving the shooting community for 40 years.

OleCuss
07-12-2011, 6:55 PM
I salute you for your attitude!

You might, however, want to discuss that off-line with the CGF folk prior to actually violating an Executive Order. There might be certain preparations or methods that should be followed to minimize the pain and maximize the good.

Condorguns
07-12-2011, 7:04 PM
Point taken. Let the chips fall where I stand firm, but agree with you.

Happy shooting friend.

bob7122
07-12-2011, 7:17 PM
what are his executive orders?

The Geologist
07-12-2011, 7:20 PM
I salute you for your attitude!

You might, however, want to discuss that off-line with the CGF folk prior to actually violating an Executive Order. There might be certain preparations or methods that should be followed to minimize the pain and maximize the good.

I may be wrong , but I believe Obama's Executive Order is violating Federal Law.

OleCuss
07-12-2011, 7:25 PM
I may be wrong , but I believe Obama's Executive Order is violating Federal Law.

I don't think we yet have the Executive Order - which means that I don't think we yet know if Federal law is/will be violated.

And it's good to see another Turlockian on the forum. . .

yellowfin
07-12-2011, 8:16 PM
Funny how if the White House occupant issues a document that violates federal law that there are absolutely zero consequences to him for doing so.

blazeaglory
07-12-2011, 8:23 PM
Sometimes you just have to FLAT OUT REFUSE over bearing laws and deal with the consequences.

I commend you Condorguns

supersonic
07-12-2011, 8:28 PM
:nono:I have now spent the last 6 hours fielding phone calls from worried customers about this Obama long gun reporting system. I have had customers willing to cancel orders if I was going to report the fact that he was buying matching rifles for him and his son ( and $3000.00) loss.

Enough is enough. My fingers are crossed this gets shot down. Until that day, or the day this lame idea comes to a real vote and includes all states not just us nasty close to Mexico states, my answer is NO.

You want my records they are right where they have been for 40 years. You are free to dig through all of them, but I will not report..end of story. I follow all of your rules...but this one goes to far.

ATF has my address..I could use the vacation..please bring pink handcuffs...a girl has to have her standards.

Torrey Harris
Owner
Condor Gun Shop
Serving the shooting community for 40 years.

If everyone would just grow a pair and follow your lead & attitude, California would be a MUCH different place for pro-2ndA folks. Bravo to you & Godspeed.:thumbsup:

OleCuss
07-12-2011, 8:37 PM
If everyone would just grow a pair and follow your lead & attitude, California would be a MUCH different place for pro-2ndA folks. Bravo to you & Godspeed.:thumbsup:

Be careful, it could actually make it worse.

So let's say every FFL in California tells Obama to shove it and that they're not going to comply. . . You think they would be unhappy about arresting every one of them? Great way to get gun control in the short term by getting rid of everyone from whom you can buy a firearm?

Simple intransigence doesn't necessarily win. Standing in front of a fast-moving tank flying the bird at it will just get you run over.

Great strategy and tactics are typically necessary unless you have overwhelming force.

oni.dori
07-12-2011, 8:43 PM
I most definitely applaud what you are doing, and I wish the best for you my friend. Just be cautious.

pdq_wizzard
07-12-2011, 8:48 PM
saved for my next gun :)

Condorguns
07-12-2011, 9:08 PM
I agree. It takes both brains and strength to win any battle. I will 100% support any and all legal efforts to see this end. You have my time, my money...and now you have my body standing in the way. My body will only stand so long, but the brains and legal effort will keep going. That said...I still will stand...pink handcuffs or not.
It took 40 years to build this shop...if I have to stand at the door for another 40 telling people no as the case moves along so be it.
If the people vote for this and it passes, I will move. But no single man will dictate something so unfair to me and expect me to go along like a nice little girl and do what he wants.
I don't want a uprising, I just want what is fair and logical.

socalblue
07-12-2011, 9:08 PM
This could actually work to our benefit in the mid to long run. There is no place in Federal law (US Codes) that would permit a criminal prosecution for an Executive Order - simply does not exist.

Thus the only potential outcome would be ATF suspending an FFL license for non-compliance of regulations. That now opens a huge can of worms as these regulations exceed the scope permitted under existing law & are, opening the door to Federal Court.

Picture a bunch of senior ATF, Homeland Security & DOJ types having to answer questions in open court. I would bet this would NOT be something the administration would want ....

By picking District Courts in separate Circuits would virtually guarantee one of two happenings after an injunction was granted voiding the EO/Regulations:

1. Circuit split over legality of the Executive Orders creating new Federal regulations outside the mandated process of notice, publication & hearings. Straight to SCOTUS we go for an emergency hearing, certainly possible should AZ, TX &/or the other states passing own state firearm regulations chime in.

2. Both Circuit Courts agree & toss the EO & regulations. Think the administration would be stupid enough to take that to SCOTUS?

blazeaglory
07-12-2011, 9:42 PM
I agree. It takes both brains and strength to win any battle. I will 100% support any and all legal efforts to see this end. You have my time, my money...and now you have my body standing in the way. My body will only stand so long, but the brains and legal effort will keep going. That said...I still will stand...pink handcuffs or not.
It took 40 years to build this shop...if I have to stand at the door for another 40 telling people no as the case moves along so be it.
If the people vote for this and it passes, I will move. But no single man will dictate something so unfair to me and expect me to go along like a nice little girl and do what he wants.
I don't want a uprising, I just want what is fair and logical.

I really like you:)

frankm
07-12-2011, 9:59 PM
Condor, I think if the gun comes with a bullet button then it doesn't accept detachable magazines, hence, you don't have to report it. Check with CGF, but I think that's correct.

Andy Taylor
07-12-2011, 10:28 PM
Condor, I salute you. Godspeed.

stitchnicklas
07-12-2011, 11:13 PM
a illegal order/wannabe law is all it is,obama is going to be sued so hard he will be tasting gura's foot coming up his throat(after he insert's it in obama's bum)

oni.dori
07-12-2011, 11:20 PM
It's a d@mn shame you guys are so far away. I want to go in and shake your hand for this. Maybe next time I am in the DHS area, I will try to stop by.

choprzrul
07-12-2011, 11:37 PM
I wish that you were my local gun shop....

.

OleCuss
07-13-2011, 6:12 AM
I've been thinking a bit more about possible consequences for the Condor Gun Shop - now one of my favorite gun shops although I may never get to visit it. . .

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that it turns out to be tactically and strategically intelligent and feasible to tell Obama and his ATF that compliance is not an option. Let's also assume that this results in the loss of an FFL license?

In that case I would hope that the Condor Gun Shop would have an Internet presence which sold firearms accessories and the like. As long as the prices were even competitive I'd bet a lot of us would preferentially buy our accessories from Condor Gun Shop even if we could buy from someone down the street for about the same price.

IOW, if Condor Gun Shop takes a hit for liberty I want us to be able to support the shop while CGF/CRPA/SAF/Gura destroy the Obama executive orders.

FWIW

supersonic
07-13-2011, 6:57 AM
Be careful, it could actually make it worse.

So let's say every FFL in California tells Obama to shove it and that they're not going to comply. . . You think they would be unhappy about arresting every one of them? Great way to get gun control in the short term by getting rid of everyone from whom you can buy a firearm?

Simple intransigence doesn't necessarily win. Standing in front of a fast-moving tank flying the bird at it will just get you run over.

Great strategy and tactics are typically necessary unless you have overwhelming force.

Let me clarify: I am referring to a much bigger picture here. You have limited it to FFL's. Notice my use of the word "everyone" in my post. I was being literal.;)

Beelzy
07-13-2011, 7:12 AM
:rockon:

cineski
07-13-2011, 7:35 AM
This is EXACTLY what O wants and he doesn't give a damn it effects your income. A disarmed population lets his phallic fingers mold the putty easier.

:nono:I have had customers willing to cancel orders if I was going to report the fact that he was buying matching rifles for him and his son ( and $3000.00) loss.

goodlookin1
07-13-2011, 7:50 AM
By refusing to do multiple long gun sales to customers, AND telling them why (for their protection), you might gain the appreciation of your customers, telling them they can come back and buy the 2nd gun on day 6 without being reported.....even though there would be a 2nd DROS fee.

VegasND
07-13-2011, 7:53 AM
Or, people could do the opposite. Purposely make sure you buy 2 long guns at once and bury the ATF under needless paper.

Currently: I'm pretty sure the reporting forms for multiple handguns purchases get ignored.
By refusing to do multiple long gun sales to customers, AND telling them why (for their protection), you might gain the appreciation of your customers, telling them they can come back and buy the 2nd gun on day 6 without being reported.....even though there would be a 2nd DROS fee.

Condorguns
07-13-2011, 8:06 AM
Condor, I think if the gun comes with a bullet button then it doesn't accept detachable magazines, hence, you don't have to report it. Check with CGF, but I think that's correct.

That would be nice if all sold was black rifles. What about the Ruger Mini, the Remingtons? Make it fair and I will have your back. You don''t keep a FFL for 40 years flippin out everytime a new stupid law comes out, but this is not right.
It will berak my heart to have my FFL pulled...but sometimes you have to just say NO. If I fall, then you all can stand on me to take the next step up.

Put some brains behind this..make it fair..make it legal...and dang it don't try tp punish me because ATF dropped the ball in Mexico. I have denied sales to people trying to by for Mexico...I will not let my loyal buyers be punished for the mistakes made by ATF and DOJ. I did my job.. now do yours.

haole_50
07-13-2011, 8:16 AM
The biggest FARCE is his order to have a "OPEN" government. I work Freedom of Information Act, and I comply with this order but yet his staff is the most "HIDDEN" bunch of idiots yet. Maybe he should READ what he signs!

Condorguns
07-13-2011, 8:17 AM
I've been thinking a bit more about possible consequences for the Condor Gun Shop - now one of my favorite gun shops although I may never get to visit it. . .

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that it turns out to be tactically and strategically intelligent and feasible to tell Obama and his ATF that compliance is not an option. Let's also assume that this results in the loss of an FFL license?

In that case I would hope that the Condor Gun Shop would have an Internet presence which sold firearms accessories and the like. As long as the prices were even competitive I'd bet a lot of us would preferentially buy our accessories from Condor Gun Shop even if we could buy from someone down the street for about the same price.

IOW, if Condor Gun Shop takes a hit for liberty I want us to be able to support the shop while CGF/CRPA/SAF/Gura destroy the Obama executive orders.

FWIW

Thank you my friend. They can pull the license. I will just go back to work deploying to diasters...pipeline the money back to the cause..thus having the Feds help pay for the defence. When its over..I come back and reopen. Bigger..better...but still blond..so double check my math on your recept ;).

jeep7081
07-13-2011, 8:24 AM
EXECUTIVE ORDERS: Please vote and remove this **** hole from office.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-executive-orders-impose-new-gun-rules/

09hemi
07-13-2011, 8:25 AM
Torrey is very smart and knows what she is doing. Her record keeping is impeccable and she has always conformed to any new stupid law that has come out.I have been buying guns from their shop since I was 18 years old and been going into the shop long before that. I applaude you Torrey for taking a stand

Briancnelson
07-13-2011, 8:44 AM
Good luck to you. Make sure you get the CGF guys on board. I appreciate seeing an FFL who is ready to stand up for our rights when they don't have to, and it potentially hurts their business.

frankm
07-13-2011, 8:49 AM
If they buy a 2nd gun on the sixth day, but still use the same DROS, does that have to be reported?

Southwest Chuck
07-13-2011, 9:26 AM
Here's another possible work around. You special order a gun for a customer and then prior to the order decide to stock one just like it in your shop and order a matched pair. You sell one to your customer and one to his son. Yes, there are still separate DROS fees though.

Wherryj
07-13-2011, 9:33 AM
I salute you for your attitude!

You might, however, want to discuss that off-line with the CGF folk prior to actually violating an Executive Order. There might be certain preparations or methods that should be followed to minimize the pain and maximize the good.

I have also gathered that there are some rather nefarious types (ie. those who would persecute...'er I mean prosecute...such offenses) that lurk on these forums. This seems rather akin to pulling up next to a cop and telling him that it's a good thing that he doesn't know that you have a dead hooker in the trunk. Nothing good is gonna happen, even if you are just joking.

dustoff31
07-13-2011, 9:55 AM
Or, people could do the opposite. Purposely make sure you buy 2 long guns at once and bury the ATF under needless paper.

Currently: I'm pretty sure the reporting forms for multiple handguns purchases get ignored.

In the past yes, but nowadays they just might use the backlog as justification to hire more clerks to process all the paperwork, which would in turn be used to justify the hiring of more agents to check everything/everyone out.

Remember too, that the handgun multisale form goes to both the BATFE and the CLEO or designated state LE agency. Don't know if that will be so for long guns or not, but I assume it will be. So that's an additional concern.

Condorguns
07-13-2011, 11:57 AM
I have also gathered that there are some rather nefarious types (ie. those who would persecute...'er I mean prosecute...such offenses) that lurk on these forums. This seems rather akin to pulling up next to a cop and telling him that it's a good thing that he doesn't know that you have a dead hooker in the trunk. Nothing good is gonna happen, even if you are just joking.


Understood. I know what happens when you poke a stick in a hornets nest. I am fully aware of the chances, and am ready to have ATF, DOJ come in the door any day. Sometimes you just have to stand up...just make sure you have your helmet on when you do it ;).

The line is drawn. I stand here.

RRichie09
07-13-2011, 12:18 PM
That would be nice if all sold was black rifles. What about the Ruger Mini, the Remingtons? Make it fair and I will have your back. You don''t keep a FFL for 40 years flippin out everytime a new stupid law comes out, but this is not right.
It will berak my heart to have my FFL pulled...but sometimes you have to just say NO. If I fall, then you all can stand on me to take the next step up.

Put some brains behind this..make it fair..make it legal...and dang it don't try tp punish me because ATF dropped the ball in Mexico. I have denied sales to people trying to by for Mexico...I will not let my loyal buyers be punished for the mistakes made by ATF and DOJ. I did my job.. now do yours.

HAHA. So if you buy multiple EBR's its not reported, but if you buy multiple bolt action or non "evil" rifles it must be reported?

Do these people think about these laws for more than 2 minutes? It is absolutely unbelieveable. I mean if they are messing gun laws up this bad, how many mistakes are they making in other areas?

We really should implement an IQ minimum for politicians.

lczefa
07-13-2011, 12:33 PM
We really should implement an IQ minimum for politicians.

IQ minimum wouldn't work as IQ tests don't account for COMMON SENSE, of which most politicians don't have.

I know plenty of PhD people who don't have common sense and can't hammer a nail into a base board.

RRichie09
07-13-2011, 12:57 PM
IQ minimum wouldn't work as IQ tests don't account for COMMON SENSE, of which most politicians don't have.

I know plenty of PhD people who don't have common sense and can't hammer a nail into a base board.

It wasn't a serious suggestion. I'm an Engineering major. I with lots of "smart" people all day. I wouldn't want some of them behind the wheel with me in the car let alone running the state in which I reside haha.

We all know they do what they think will keep them in office. This means writting empty laws that sound good in the media. No one cares about results anymore, they just wanna feel good that "something" is being done.

Goosebrown
07-13-2011, 1:58 PM
"Do these people think about these laws for more than 2 minutes? It is absolutely unbelieveable. "

You know what scares me most? Not the idiots that make us jump through hoops to get a legal AR15, its the ones that DO know how to write a law that WILL make ARs illegal. So far they haven't won, but if the garden variety idiots get embarrassed enough, then they will show up.

Condorguns
07-13-2011, 4:02 PM
LOL...Thank you to the six diffrent people who came to the shop today to shake my hand. It was nice to see new faces. This was not my plan to bring people to the shop, but it was nice to hear from you all. I swear Cal Gunner are a crazy bunch... but we do love you guys.

Anchors
07-13-2011, 4:23 PM
Condor, I think if the gun comes with a bullet button then it doesn't accept detachable magazines, hence, you don't have to report it. Check with CGF, but I think that's correct.

Yes, but the rule requires any semi-automatic firearm, .22lr or larger that accepts detachable magazines to be reported. They are calling these "assault weapons" now.

A Ruger 10/22 is an assault weapon and buying two of them must be reported.

GrayWolf09
07-13-2011, 4:39 PM
:nono:I have now spent the last 6 hours fielding phone calls from worried customers about this Obama long gun reporting system. I have had customers willing to cancel orders if I was going to report the fact that he was buying matching rifles for him and his son ( and $3000.00) loss.

Enough is enough. My fingers are crossed this gets shot down. Until that day, or the day this lame idea comes to a real vote and includes all states not just us nasty close to Mexico states, my answer is NO.

You want my records they are right where they have been for 40 years. You are free to dig through all of them, but I will not report..end of story. I follow all of your rules...but this one goes to far.

ATF has my address..I could use the vacation..please bring pink handcuffs...a girl has to have her standards.

Torrey Harris
Owner
Condor Gun Shop
Serving the shooting community for 40 years.

While I certainly understand your anger and frustration, perhaps waiting for cooler heads to prevail is the better course of action. I am sure one of the first things the NRA and other gun rights groups will do is ask for an injunction to block implementation of the executive order or regulations or whatever form they take until the matter can be fully litigated. I have some serious doubts this one will ever take effect.:)

HogKiller
07-13-2011, 9:18 PM
I may be wrong , but I believe Obama's Executive Order is violating Federal Law. Hell, Obama is violating federal law just by being in office so he's really going to care?

hornswaggled
07-13-2011, 9:49 PM
It ain't over yet. The NRA are going full bore on this one. Looks like the House just proposed denying funding for this wacky order. I just wish the NRA would get this aggro when Cali passes stupid laws and not just when legislation threatens their precious golden child states Texas and Arizona :rolleyes:.

luckystrike
07-13-2011, 10:08 PM
oh man, so much motivation in this thread.

I salute you condor guns.

numsii
07-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Just means the rest of the border states will sell rifles with bullet buttons, or rather with an unfurnished bullet button kit. Doesn't mean they have to stay so equipped, outside of California that is.

FeuerFrei
07-13-2011, 10:32 PM
:nono:I have now spent the last 6 hours fielding phone calls from worried customers about this Obama long gun reporting system. I have had customers willing to cancel orders if I was going to report the fact that he was buying matching rifles for him and his son ( and $3000.00) loss.

Enough is enough. My fingers are crossed this gets shot down. Until that day, or the day this lame idea comes to a real vote and includes all states not just us nasty close to Mexico states, my answer is NO.

You want my records they are right where they have been for 40 years. You are free to dig through all of them, but I will not report..end of story. I follow all of your rules...but this one goes to far.

ATF has my address..I could use the vacation..please bring pink handcuffs...a girl has to have her standards.

Torrey Harris
Owner
Condor Gun Shop
Serving the shooting community for 40 years.

Hold the line... CONDORGUNS !
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/2009/08/red-dawn-remake-1.jpg

The Cable Guy
07-13-2011, 10:53 PM
"Do these people think about these laws for more than 2 minutes? It is absolutely unbelieveable. "

You know what scares me most? Not the idiots that make us jump through hoops to get a legal AR15, its the ones that DO know how to write a law that WILL make ARs illegal. So far they haven't won, but if the garden variety idiots get embarrassed enough, then they will show up.

Good thing anyone with the capacity to think is on our side. Honestly, I don't believe anyone with a decent amount of "common sense" would even considering imposing or writing laws that do nothing but restict law abiding citizens.

DannyInSoCal
07-13-2011, 11:21 PM
LOL...Thank you to the six diffrent people who came to the shop today to shake my hand. It was nice to see new faces. This was not my plan to bring people to the shop, but it was nice to hear from you all. I swear Cal Gunner are a crazy bunch... but we do love you guys.

We've all got your six.....

oni.dori
07-14-2011, 7:53 PM
Here's a question; do a president's executive order sunset with the end of their presidency, or are they permanent?

VegasND
07-14-2011, 8:22 PM
They are forever unless there is an effective date in them or another President rescinds them. Do a websearch and find out what EOs are still hanging over our head from long-dead Presidents
Here's a question; do a president's executive order sunset with the end of their presidency, or are they permanent?

oni.dori
07-14-2011, 11:28 PM
That's what I was afraid of. At least there is SOME hope in the future.

Patriot Man
07-15-2011, 12:27 AM
Condorguns- fight the power. We all have our line we won't let others cross into or we won't cross over. Unfortunately, most Americans' line is not based on principals, but based on pure self interest.
I wish you were my local gun shop. Call CGF and go with what they advise, is my lowly and humble advice.

ccmc
07-15-2011, 6:37 AM
It ain't over yet. The NRA are going full bore on this one. Looks like the House just proposed denying funding for this wacky order. I just wish the NRA would get this aggro when Cali passes stupid laws and not just when legislation threatens their precious golden child states Texas and Arizona :rolleyes:.

TX and AZ aren't precious golden child states - they are just states with reasonably good gun laws that are being threatened by a questionable EO from Obama. CA bad gun laws have nothing to do with Obama's EOs other than the fact that CA's electorate continues to put people into office that enact bad gun laws on a state level, as well as senators that propose bad federal legislation or presidents that issue bad EOs. Not much the NRA can do about California voters.

Anchors
07-15-2011, 6:45 AM
TX and AZ aren't precious golden child states - they are just states with reasonably good gun laws that are being threatened by a questionable EO from Obama. CA bad gun laws have nothing to do with Obama's EOs other than the fact that CA's electorate continues to put people into office that enact bad gun laws on a state level, as well as senators that propose bad federal legislation or presidents that issue bad EOs. Not much the NRA can do about California voters.

Personally, I don't even know why people cite Texas as having good gun laws all the time.
You need a CHL, can't carry it to places that serve alcohol or post the huge no CCW sign, and you can't open carry at all.
Texas gun laws have a "better" score with the Brady's than a lot of other states (they still only have a 6, though).