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View Full Version : Is a collapsable stock on a saiga 12 illegal in california


sffred
07-12-2011, 6:40 PM
Hello fellow calgunners!

Recently purchased my first saiga 12 and talked to a friend and he said that a collapsable stock is illegal in california if I have a pistol grip.
Is this true?
Also he told me that if my butt stock is fixed and uncollapsable that it is legal to have hi cap magazines?
Is he pulling my legs?

BigDogatPlay
07-12-2011, 6:43 PM
The Shotgun Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf) is your friend.

Note questions 12-14 on the right side of the page. Essentially a Saiga 12 needs to have a magazine lock is my understanding to be legal in California. You can have any one feature (pistol grip or telescoping stock) you can't have both on a semi-auto shotgun. Legal configuration with the pistol grip would be to have the stock permanently pinned, IMO.

I can't imagine there are that many assembled > 10 round mags for Saiga 12 in California, since it is "post ban". If you put one on a mag locked gun, you would be manufacturing an illegal AW on the spot, which equals a felony if you are unfortunate enough to get caught.

rromeo
07-12-2011, 6:44 PM
Your friend is correct. A collapsible stock AND a pistol grip on a semiautomatic shotgun makes an assault weapon.
There is no specific magazine capacity for any shotguns in California, but it is still nearly impossible for you to acquire a magazine over ten rounds.
All semiautomatic shotguns must also have a nondetachable magazine.

repubconserv
07-12-2011, 7:11 PM
The Shotgun Flowchart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf) is your friend.

Note questions 12-14 on the right side of the page. Essentially a Saiga 12 needs to have a magazine lock is my understanding to be legal in California. You can have any one feature (pistol grip or telescoping stock) you can't have both on a semi-auto shotgun. Legal configuration with the pistol grip would be to have the stock permanently pinned, IMO.

I can't imagine there are that many assembled > 10 round mags for Saiga 12 in California, since it is "post ban". If you put one on a mag locked gun, you would be manufacturing an illegal AW on the spot, which equals a felony if you are unfortunate enough to get caught.

Total FUD. the "no hicap in maglocked weapon" does not apply to a shotgun. The problem of LEGALLY acquiring a hicap mag does come into play though. If you found a saiga 12 hicap mag in the desert/wherever (within CA) you could legally own and use it in your s12. But, that is highly unlikely and will probably lead to trouble (even if you did acquire it totally legally)

Cokebottle
07-12-2011, 7:32 PM
I can't imagine there are that many assembled > 10 round mags for Saiga 12 in California, since it is "post ban". If you put one on a mag locked gun, you would be manufacturing an illegal AW on the spot, which equals a felony if you are unfortunate enough to get caught.
No high-cap prohibition on fixed-magazine shotguns.
That only applies to centerfire, semi-auto rifles and all semi-auto handguns.

But normal high-cap laws still apply... if he doesn't have a 20rd drum today, he can't have one next week.

sffred
07-12-2011, 11:27 PM
thanks you guys so very much! fixed stock it is! i think i'm not going to try and push any buttons here so i will stick to the 10 round! thanks again u guys!

chaseface
07-13-2011, 11:16 AM
You can get a 20 round drum rebuild kit sent to your home. There is a business member here who will receive high cap mags from the factory/retailer and disassemble them into rebuild kits and ship them to you legally. You may not legally "manufacture" them into 20 round drums inside of California. However if you ever venture out of state to say Nevada then you can use them there but you must break them down when re-entering California. As already noted possession of high cap shotgun mags, and using them, is not illegal in California. The crime is importing, manufacturing, selling, giving, lending when not in your presence.

chaseface
07-13-2011, 12:11 PM
Also just to clarify, a pistol grip and folding/telescoping stock is ONLY illegal on semi-auto shotguns. It is OK to have both on a pump-action shotgun.

BigDogatPlay
07-13-2011, 1:38 PM
Total FUD. the "no hicap in maglocked weapon" does not apply to a shotgun. The problem of LEGALLY acquiring a hicap mag does come into play though. If you found a saiga 12 hicap mag in the desert/wherever (within CA) you could legally own and use it in your s12. But, that is highly unlikely and will probably lead to trouble (even if you did acquire it totally legally)

No high-cap prohibition on fixed-magazine shotguns.
That only applies to centerfire, semi-auto rifles and all semi-auto handguns.

But normal high-cap laws still apply... if he doesn't have a 20rd drum today, he can't have one next week.

I'll stand corrected on that one point, thank you.

repubconserv
07-13-2011, 2:31 PM
I'll stand corrected on that one point, thank you.

No prob, I am FUDman in centerfire rifles section :batman:

ivsamhell
07-13-2011, 9:43 PM
I've toyed around with the idea of a removable stock. not ideal but this is california, we do stupid things to have compliant options. still meets minimum length without it.

chaseface
07-14-2011, 12:17 PM
I've toyed around with the idea of a removable stock. not ideal but this is california, we do stupid things to have compliant options. still meets minimum length without it.

I've been thinking about the same thing, but you wouldn't want the rear tang sticking out of the back, so you would want to take that off and go with a stock similar to the Ace skeleton stock. Or any stock that uses a weld on, or internal stock adapter. Then would you want a thumbscrew, or even quicker sort of quick detach pin. Or you could even create a sort of slide into place stock retainment system... there are a lot of possibilities. Also even though I haven't tried it yet, I can bet that the recoil will be much less than a pump shotty with a pistol grip. The semi-auto internals and recoil spring take a lot of the recoil.

applevalleyjoe
07-25-2011, 10:56 PM
Also just to clarify, a pistol grip and folding/telescoping stock is ONLY illegal on semi-auto shotguns. It is OK to have both on a pump-action shotgun.

Are you sure?

rromeo
07-25-2011, 11:06 PM
That is correct.

chaseface
07-26-2011, 11:14 AM
Are you sure?

I'm pretty sure. Like 99% sure :D

ke6guj
08-03-2011, 6:52 PM
Does folding stock count as a collapsible stock IE fold over/under or to the side?

no, it does not count as a collapsible stock if it folds.










unfortunately, the law considers folding stocks to be an evil feature, just like collapsible stocks.


this is covered in the flowchart, read it.