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View Full Version : 590A1 and slugs


rocker
07-12-2011, 8:55 AM
Well I was shooting slugs the other day for the 1st time. I bought slugs because I wanted to be able to "aim it" at 50-100yrds. No effen way! That thing kicked so hard there is no way to effectivly "aim it" at something. It hit me in the face several times before I realized deer at 25yrds plus are safe LOL!! So wth...now what? I bought the shotty as a all around gun, HD shtf deer ect. The first 2 no problem.....deer? at 100yrds with slugs???? No Way. Oh well, just ranting.....what about a 410 with slugs? Think that would be any better? What about a Saiga 12 instead of the pump. Would the saiga have reduced recoil? Thanks

Oh and its the 20" barrel and I have a 12" lop stock on it.

meaty-btz
07-12-2011, 9:01 AM
Learn to hold your shotgun properly? Get a shoulder pad or butt pad to reduce felt recoil?

I shoot slugs regularly out of my 18.5" Mossberg. Just this Sunday I was shooting at 100 Yards with it and getting 3" groupings standing, unsupported. You should be able to do a good bit better with the longer barrel.

newglockster
07-12-2011, 9:04 AM
I think felt recoil is much more if you are trying to shoot from a bench versus standing. When you are standing, your body can kinda give with the recoil. Hunching down on a bench or rest - the felt recoil is much worse. Just my experience...

hcbr
07-12-2011, 9:09 AM
I agree with meaty-btz, you'll probably want to look into a better recoil pad to reduce it. When i had my 870, the minute I added a supercell, i was able to reduce cheek slap and hold the gun alot better. Also the longer barrel helps too if you want to do long range, my buddy one time used my 30" barrel and shot something over 150+ yards so it's doable! i'd consider looking to get a spare "longer" barrel and a recoil pad!

meaty-btz
07-12-2011, 9:23 AM
I think felt recoil is much more if you are trying to shoot from a bench versus standing. When you are standing, your body can kinda give with the recoil. Hunching down on a bench or rest - the felt recoil is much worse. Just my experience...

Yes, benching and prone result in significantly higher "felt" recoil. The modern non-bladed shotgun stance results in a body position that is a huge recoil absorption platform.

Most Shotguns are light enough to be held and fired accurately standing. I would not prone or bench a shotgun, the recoil would be shoulder dislocating.

rocker
07-12-2011, 9:36 AM
I always shoot my shotty standing never on a bench or prone. It sounds like I may need some kind of recoil pad. Im not in to pistol grips. Any recomendations on a recoil pad? As far as I can tell my 12" lop stock does not really have anything on it. Just a little bit at the very end that covers the end of the stock.

Ledbetter
07-12-2011, 9:46 AM
You could get a Past shoulder-worn pad.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=699899

Use it only when you need it and for different guns as well.

meaty-btz
07-12-2011, 9:48 AM
I always shoot my shotty standing never on a bench or prone. It sounds like I may need some kind of recoil pad. Im not in to pistol grips. Any recomendations on a recoil pad? As far as I can tell my 12" lop stock does not really have anything on it. Just a little bit at the very end that covers the end of the stock.

Have you also considered that your LOP might be too short for you? With my adjustable stock if I shorten it up the recoil hurts like hell, I run it at max length. As for recoil pads, there are metric tons of them on the market. Just pop over to Cabella's or whatever your favorite internet gun store happens to be.

paratroop
07-12-2011, 10:05 AM
knoxx recoil reducing stock, you can shoot all day. I have the pistol grip only stock, and i could shoot slugs, buck, whatever, to about 50 yards all day. i managed to hit a target at about 120 yards. but with an actual shoulder stock, i bet you could manage much better than that.

ZombieTactics
07-12-2011, 10:12 AM
Well I was shooting slugs the other day for the 1st time. I bought slugs because I wanted to be able to "aim it" at 50-100yrds. No effen way! That thing kicked so hard there is no way to effectivly "aim it" at something. It hit me in the face several times before I realized deer at 25yrds plus are safe LOL!! So wth...now what? I bought the shotty as a all around gun, HD shtf deer ect. The first 2 no problem.....deer? at 100yrds with slugs???? No Way. Oh well, just ranting.....what about a 410 with slugs? Think that would be any better? What about a Saiga 12 instead of the pump. Would the saiga have reduced recoil? Thanks

Oh and its the 20" barrel and I have a 12" lop stock on it.

With all due respect (sincerely) ... the problem is not the shotgun. Learning to operate it correctly is not optional, but rather necessary. My 14-year-old daughter can handle my 590A1 effectively, and she isn't tall, large or muscular.

This was your first outing with slugs ... perhaps get some training and give it another go.

BigDogatPlay
07-12-2011, 10:21 AM
Have to echo those who recommend to learn how to properly shoulder and fire your shotgun first. Yes, slug rounds have a pretty good amount of recoil. Three inch magnum slugs have even more. They do take some getting used to.

But I've cloverleafed multiple shots with slugs on a B-27 sillouhette at 30 yards over just a plain bead sight and an 18 inch barreled pump gun, and kept groups within five inches or so at 100 yards over rifle sights.

If you're running a 12 inch LOP, make sure you are squaring up your stance and presenting your shoulders roughly square to the target. If you are firing from a bladed stance, more like shooting a rifle, I guarantee you the stock is way too short for the task and you aren't going to have any fun at all. And definitely look into a better recoil pad that whatever is on the stock.

Either/Or
07-12-2011, 10:27 AM
I think your issue is your shotgun- the 12" lop stock that is. I have the same shotgun and to try and sight down the top of the barrel to fire slugs=hit in the face. 50 yards 15 shots I couldn't even hit the paper because I couldn't aim properly without injury. I do fine with my Mosin or .223 rifle at this range. My fiancÚ who is of smaller build than I was able to do alot better as she could sight down the barrel without taking a knuckle or the stock to her nose when she fired.... I do fine with buck shot at closer ranges with this gun, it just doesn't work to shoot it like a rifle for me. Full lop stock and you'd probably be fine, but a smaller person would likely have more trouble handling the gun properly then ( my fiancÚ s issue wight the full lop stock).

meaty-btz
07-12-2011, 10:29 AM
Interesting thing about a shotgun and sights.. a properly shouldered shotgun in a proper stance will almost always point the shotgun at the same spot as it always does. Sighting with the sights becomes more of a fine-tune rather than something to really control where you are "aiming".


I should probably get a picture of the target, but bead sights and proper stance at 100yards == 3" groupings of 5 slugs fired relatively fast. Don't fight the gun, it should be natural and comfortable. With practice you should be able to acquire your shouldering and stance without much thought from there comes comfort and accuracy and consistency.

rocker
07-12-2011, 11:20 AM
I think its the short 12" lop stock. Looking down the short sight length just doesnt cut it. I reciently added the short stock and never had a problem before. So process of elimination. I just ordered a Blackhawk Knoxx Compstock SG Stock Mossberg K05200C. Ill post again when I get it and get to shoot with it.

BlackViper
07-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Not meant as disrespect in any way, but it's not the gun, it's you. Get someone to teach you how to hold it, shoulder it, and fire it.

Sure shotguns have more recoil, but I think I was 12 yo when I first moved up to a 12 ga w/ slugs - you shouldn't be having such a rough time.

Now that said, on my 590A1 I'm now running the mesa tactical adapter and enidyne buffer extension with a magpul stock. I was running a knoxx spec ops before that. Not that I cannot handle recoil, but this setup let's me shoot an all-day shotgun class and go through 250+ shells with no soreness.

You should be accurate with slugs to 100yds - that's what police shoot to qualify with their 870s.

rocker
07-12-2011, 12:48 PM
Its not me....check out this thread. Its everything I have been talking about.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=454196

meaty-btz
07-12-2011, 1:52 PM
From what I read the problem was caused by the too short of LOP. I fire in the facing stance with a longer LOP because it hurts less. When I collapse the stock to a very short LOP even in a facing stance I get the crap beat out of me.


FITTING FITTING FITTING. Get the shotgun that fits you correctly in the correct stance correctly shouldered and you won't get as beat up. Go with the recoil reduction stocks with springs in them and pads for even MORE recoil reduction. Magnum Slugs after a full tube will leave me GASPING from the smarting pain but it passes pretty fast. IF I need a full tube of magnum slugs I am in some really serious crapola and pain will be far from my mind.

BlackViper has some great suggestions for new hardware, get some. I would never get a 12"LOP fixed stock. There might be some uses for that short of a LOP but I honestly can't think of any, a PG shotgun would be better in those situations.

AlliedArmory
07-12-2011, 2:28 PM
I had the Knoxx adjustable recoil reducing stock shooting Fiocchi reduced recoil slugs and it felt fine. We were able to hit the 100yrd steel at ASR standing no problem.

POWG
07-12-2011, 5:54 PM
Dude...

You are launching a 1 ounce lump of lead down a short barrel from a light platform @ anywhere from 1,400 > 1,800 or more FPS ...what did you expect!

Read POWG's post on this topic explaining why slugs & buckshot generate more recoil.

As a kid growing up in the glorious Commonwealth of VA, I killed many Whitetail Deer with Slugs & also Buckshot as did my dad. These were taken with from both 16 & 20 Ga., double barrel shotguns at distances up to 60 yards. Devastating when you hit em with a slug!

Slugs & guns today are far, far superior to what they were 45 years ago, and with nothing more than a ghost ring & front sight you can easily shoot accurately with your HD gun @ 100 yards once you learn how. Devil in these details however is truly the "effen" recoil. Not much you can do can do about that!

There are now specialized barrels for slugs and platforms designed for hunting. These are similar to HD configurations. In the hands of a even a reasonably competent shooter using quality Optics, Deer & other big game can be consistently taken at distances up to and even beyond 150 yards. Critical to success as always will be shot placement & the slug will do its job.

As for .410 Slugs ...they are kinda "cute" & will stop a human at close range ...but wild game is really wired differently. POWG would ask "why" and opt instead for a hunt with one of the magnum handgun platforms.

Practice a lot with your gun using target loads. Become consistent & proficient. Practice some with Buckshot, understanding that they too generate more recoil than an identical weight payload of "bird shot", for the same reason cited for the slugs.

Bottom line ...when you are proficient with your platform and confronted with a life & death situation ...recoil will be the last thing you will worry about ...or remember.

Keep shooting - be safe & have fun!

POWG is out.

1998 m4a1
07-13-2011, 12:57 AM
at 20 yards i can have my 590 slugs all touching. you gotta learn to shoot and man up! if its hitting you in the face, you are holding it wrong. use your shoulder pocket to hold the stock and not your face! just some advice...

M1A Rifleman
07-13-2011, 6:53 AM
Gain some weight as it sounds like your too small for the A1 :D JK

Practice my son and make sure the stock is in your shoulder firm and your cheek weld is correct. I tend to shoot my A1 once or twice a year, and the first time out last season, I near knocked myself silly with a poor cheek weld. My jaw hurt the rest of the day. As for accuracy with slugs, I can hit a steel plate off hand at 100 yds, so they are accurate and precise, just practice.

MossbergMan
07-13-2011, 7:10 AM
As many stated above, get some training. A good instructor will be able to see what you're doing wrong and fix it. It could be stock length, it could be a combination of many things, but shooting slugs shouldn't hurt.
If you're getting hit in the face and your shoulder is getting pounded, you are doing it all wrong. Get some help.
If I had to guess, from your description, I say your stock is too long. You may need a Bantam or Youth stock length for your gun. Yeah you can buy adjustable, "recoil reducing" stocks, but you're still not going to know how to operate a shotgun properly and as far as I'm concerned, recoil reducing stocks are crutches for those that won't get trained. I see the purpose for "adjustable" stocks. Many users can shoot the same SG without pain by adjusting the LOP (Length of Pull).
There was very good advice offered thoughout this thread, stop stumbling around in the dark and seek professional training.

Rob454
07-13-2011, 7:36 AM
if the gun is hitting you in the face you are not holding it properly.

JagerDog
07-13-2011, 7:38 AM
That 12" LOP stock is the problem. Those aren't meant for cheek-to-wood aiming. Your thumb whacks your face/nose.

Shellshocker66
07-13-2011, 11:29 AM
I'm 5'3&3/4 inches tall, weigh 140 and female. I shoot my 590 with slugs no problem. Learned my lesson on how to hold on to a big shotgun when I was 12 and smaller. Uncle took me duck hunting in Arkansas with a 12 gauge magnum. First duck came flying out of the bush I tracked it, pulled the trigger, and bam! Stock flew into my face giving me the biggest shiner! He just about had a heart attack thinking my mom was going to kill him. Told me how to hold it tighter into the shoulder and let the body absorb the recoil. I bagged my limit that day with that huge shotgun that was taller then I was and had a nice war wound to go with it!

prc77
07-13-2011, 12:21 PM
That 12" LOP stock is the problem. Those aren't meant for cheek-to-wood aiming. Your thumb whacks your face/nose.

With the 12" LOP I modify my strong hand grip.

This might help you also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfH_v9rv3Js


FROM THIS

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01640.jpg

TO THIS

http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/prc77509th/DSC01639.jpg

racky
07-13-2011, 2:27 PM
you should take a class. i took one with stone cobra tactical (now it's Gray Ops). here's the link: http://www.gofast1.com/

here's my vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37HAdymL7FU
37HAdymL7FU

1998 m4a1
07-14-2011, 3:37 AM
you should take a class. i took one with stone cobra tactical (now it's Gray Ops). here's the link: http://www.gofast1.com/

here's my vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37HAdymL7FU
37HAdymL7FU

you might wanna take cover if you are reloading that slowly in a fire fight. I doubt someones gonna just wait and let you reload. also, you might wanna move the targets out a little more. I mean seriously what is stone cobra tatical teaching you guys?

racky
07-14-2011, 7:15 AM
you might wanna take cover if you are reloading that slowly in a fire fight. I doubt someones gonna just wait and let you reload. also, you might wanna move the targets out a little more. I mean seriously what is stone cobra tatical teaching you guys?

WOW! i'd like to explain what wasn't shown in the camera angle, but i won't. i'd also like to explain the philosophy of what a training enviroment is, but i won't. it seems you've already come to your own ignorant conclusions to listen in the first place. have a nice day! :rolleyes:

MossbergMan
07-14-2011, 1:17 PM
I watched the Stone Corbra video and as far a target distance is concerned, your shotgun engagements are going to be at handgun distances. That was practical. Only issue I had was the shooter, slicing the pie in the first part was leading with his foot/leg, offering a enticing target to an opponent.
Other than that, straight up tactical training. Nice transitions by the way.

Ed_Hazard
07-14-2011, 1:28 PM
Why type of load where you shooting in your slugs? Might want vto try some reduced recoil slugs as opposed to hunting loads.

10mm
07-14-2011, 9:37 PM
I have 590a1 with AR stock. First time I shot it I hit my target with 3" winchester super x slugs. Target was set up 50 yards away at rifle range. I do confess it hurt my shoulder like a s.o.b. and continued to hurt for a couple of days. I was really surprised about how shocked and hurt after shooting 15 shells consecutively. About a month later I shot more slugs this time aprox. double the amount of shells but virtually no pain. I was not in shock and was actually having fun. I noticed I held and positioned my gun better on my shoulder and had complete confidence in my ability to shoot it effectively. I did practice dry firing it allot so as to not get startled by the blast. Another thing I noticed that my pistol grip does get real loose and have to tighten bolt after about 15 shells of 3". I can sincerely recomend that you should practice the way you hold and position it on yourself and also dryfire a little everyday. btw i was not shooting from a bench, strictly on both feet upright leaning a litte forward.

funnyman3000
07-15-2011, 7:02 AM
Anyone have any experience with the reduced recoil slugs?

BlackViper
07-19-2011, 10:15 AM
Anyone have any experience with the reduced recoil slugs?

What do you want to know? Reduced recoil loads (buck and slugs) work great, they just have lower fps over full power loads.

tonelar
07-19-2011, 11:21 AM
I borrowed a KNOX stock for a g/f who was getting worked by her dad's Remi shooting 00 and slugs (she went with co-workers) her first outing with high base loads.
We went to the range and I coached her to really emphasize holding it tight to her shoulder. She shot a few with the KNOX then ran a mag through my M1 (straight carblite stock) running Fiochi Sabots and 00. She hated that KNOX. She went back with the straight wood stocked 870 and hasn't complained since.
So, be wary of the KNOX "recoil reducer", there are shooters out there that are better off without it.

Just my way of saying keep at it... You'll figure it out.