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FatalKitty
07-12-2011, 9:37 AM
Every time I go to a BLM or DFG range, there is trash everywhere. It makes me pretty mad :mad: - and we do our best to clean up what we can while the range is clear. But one of the things I notice makes up the majority of the trash is plastic bags, and ammo boxes/trays

Could we limit the types of materials that ammo is sold in to keep down the pollution to something more earth friendly?

I think this has two benefits:
1. it keeps pollution down by using biodegradable materials
2. it shows the general population that we are serious about our planet

The downside I see to this is legislation... another law would have to be passed (we could try doing it without law, by encouraging stores that sell ammo in plastic containers and bags like Big5 and wallmart; and talking to manufacturers of ammo)
this may increase cost to the consumer.. although I doubt it would be much

This is just an Idea... and I haven't thought it all the way through - so I am curious about what YOU guys think of it...


maybe we could just start with a campaign to encourage gun owners to be more responsible with their trash... but the sad reality is that anyone would who would listen to such advice is probably not the person causing all the trash in the first place.

wash
07-12-2011, 9:48 AM
If the antis think anyone can tell ammo manufacturers what to make their packaging out of, they will think that they can tell ammo manufacturers what to make their ammo out of (they would probably ask for rainbows and unicorn farts).

Your best bet is to organize range cleanups and buy ammo with minimal packaging yourself.

The problem is most likely casual gun owners who buy ammo 20-50 rounds at a time, not people who prefer to buy by the crate or battlepack.

Education for casual gun owners would probably be the most effective solution.

yellowfin
07-12-2011, 10:00 AM
I'd say that if ammo companies figure reducing the packaging will save them money, which it very well may, then it will happen and for that reason. I know that Silver Bear .223 is packed in paper bundles and I would guess that's why.

FatalKitty
07-12-2011, 10:02 AM
What I mean is
what if the NRA told stores like big5 and walmart to stop putting ammo in plastic bags, and to use either paper or no bags.

i got PMC .223 and there was no plastic holder for the rounds, just 20 rounds in a box. I was pretty happy with that and will buy more of that instead of the remmington stuff that has plastic holders.

Overbear
07-12-2011, 10:12 AM
Back in the day ammo came in a nice thin cardboard box, with cardboard inserts. Everything was light, and biodegradeable, and cheep...then they decided everyone wants plastic belt loops and such.

Boltz
07-12-2011, 11:06 AM
Unfortunately, shooting seems to attract a lot of folks who could give a rat's a** about being green or even just policing up after themselves. I don't see that changing anytime soon and all it takes are those few people to ruin everybody elses' fun and image.

But I do agree that ammo packaging could be more eco-friendly, such as by using paper inserts instead of plastic or even plant-based plastics. Even if most shooters don't care about that kind of stuff, it would only help with the public perception of shooters.

FatalKitty
07-12-2011, 12:03 PM
Thats my point... its about public perception... if we can convey that we are concerned about our environment and not just a bunch of gun toting wackos trashing the country with our firearms... it would do a lot i think for our cause

duggan
07-12-2011, 1:08 PM
So first we (the people who hunt in the condor areas) are stuck with huge increases on non lead rounds that Barnes (thanks Aholes) said wouldn't inflate costs and would be readily available. And now we want ammo manufacturers to use new packaging materials that are going to cost more to produce? I already pay out the nose for rounds to hunt and plink, I really don't feel like absorbing the costs for greener packaging so douchebags can feel a lil better about being scumbags and not picking up after themselves.

bussda
07-12-2011, 1:14 PM
As the cost of ammo has gone up, the packaging has changed. It helps customers more easily accept the increase in price.

It would be far easier to get everyone to stop littering.

dls
07-12-2011, 1:17 PM
Come September I'll be cleaning up the property I manage after the Dove hunters have left their trash, McDonald's breakfast with shot shells all around.
I've even caught some that climbed over the fence(posted) to hunt and asked what they're thinking ? they said this is where the dove are. ok then. I'm not even allowed to hunt it.

It just gives us all a bad wrap.

Curley Red
07-12-2011, 1:26 PM
I deal with the trash from both shooters and fisherman. I fly fish a lot and am getting real tired of the trash left behind by fisherman and not to mention all the shotgun shells and ammo boxes I see everywhere. So many people want their rights but at the same time they give a rats you know what about littering. Were gonna kill this planet faster than it can handle it. Do like I do and carry an extra trash bag just to pick up other peoples trash.

FatalKitty
07-12-2011, 1:26 PM
So first we (the people who hunt in the condor areas) are stuck with huge increases on non lead rounds that Barnes (thanks Aholes) said wouldn't inflate costs and would be readily available. And now we want ammo manufacturers to use new packaging materials that are going to cost more to produce? I already pay out the nose for rounds to hunt and plink, I really don't feel like absorbing the costs for greener packaging so douchebags can feel a lil better about being scumbags and not picking up after themselves.

any cost increase in packaging may be marginal.

recycled box material: cheaper, greener
No plastic shell holders: cheaper, greener
stop putting ammo in plastic bags at retailers: cheaper, greener

the ONLY cost increase would be educating these companies to get with the program :)

I'm certainly willing to pay an extra 5 cents a box for ammo if it can help our cause, while also having the added benefit of keeping down the litter.

IntoForever
07-12-2011, 1:52 PM
Before I started reloading I always told the cashier I don't need a bag and I never purchased a box of ammo that came in the styrofoam holder. I always thought those things were idiotic and wondered when they were going to come with a tea cozy to set your ammo on so it looks pretty. Old school boxes are fine, 20 rounds in a cardboard paper box jammed together in a smaller package works. I don't care if my brass looks scuffed. Hopefully the manufacturer's read this thread and take note. </rant>

AMDG
07-12-2011, 2:43 PM
Could we limit the types of materials that ammo is sold in to keep down the pollution to something more earth friendly?

As in regulation? No we need less regulation not more.

As in informing manufactures of the potential benefits of such a thing and letting them do a cost benefit analysis and decide on their own? Yes.

RRichie09
07-12-2011, 2:58 PM
Every time I go to a BLM or DFG range, there is trash everywhere. It makes me pretty mad :mad: - and we do our best to clean up what we can while the range is clear. But one of the things I notice makes up the majority of the trash is plastic bags, and ammo boxes/trays

Could we limit the types of materials that ammo is sold in to keep down the pollution to something more earth friendly?

I think this has two benefits:
1. it keeps pollution down by using biodegradable materials
2. it shows the general population that we are serious about our planet

The downside I see to this is legislation... another law would have to be passed (we could try doing it without law, by encouraging stores that sell ammo in plastic containers and bags like Big5 and wallmart; and talking to manufacturers of ammo)
this may increase cost to the consumer.. although I doubt it would be much

This is just an Idea... and I haven't thought it all the way through - so I am curious about what YOU guys think of it...


maybe we could just start with a campaign to encourage gun owners to be more responsible with their trash... but the sad reality is that anyone would who would listen to such advice is probably not the person causing all the trash in the first place.

More laws = bad. Forcing pirvate businesses to do things through government = bad.

The answer is education and enforcement of laws we already have. Why force manufacturers to change when we can just enforce the laws on litering. The manufacturers should take the iniciative to use less packaging as that means less cost to them. Why do you think the "green" movement took off? The businesses saw that going green actually saves money.

Using biodegradable packaging is great but until the costs line up with the benefits it won't be used and that is the responsibility of the companies producing biodegradable products.

This trend of thinking of using government to force change is very alarming. Capitalism. It's America, lets not forget that.




I'm certainly willing to pay an extra 5 cents a box for ammo if it can help our cause, while also having the added benefit of keeping down the litter.

That is awesome but please don't force the rest of us to pay 5 cents extra. I'm already fed up with paying extra to keep society safe from guns. :p

Uriah02
07-12-2011, 3:11 PM
I haven't known any anti's opposed to gun ownership because we litter too much. If a company finds a more fiscally beneficial method of packaging which is also more green I am all for it. If it costs me an extra $.25, I'll keep the plastic.

SASchnell
07-12-2011, 3:43 PM
Some people are just slobs. Go to the movie theater and see how many slobs can't pickup the popcorn bag or soda cup. It is our responsibility to teach our children to police after themselves, my children know what would happen if they did not cleanup after themselves.

yellowfin
07-12-2011, 8:36 PM
I'd like to see more ammo on stripper clips.

FastFinger
07-12-2011, 9:51 PM
As in regulation? No we need less regulation not more.

As in informing manufactures of the potential benefits of such a thing and letting them do a cost benefit analysis and decide on their own? Yes.

^^^ Agreed.

I'm not in favor of allowing Sacto to pass yet another law, even a well intentioned one.

I'm all for our community petitioning manufacturers to make those changes on their own.

strongpoint
07-12-2011, 11:00 PM
It just gives us all a bad wrap.

i see what you did there.

conanobrennan
07-12-2011, 11:06 PM
simple solution is to call people out for that sort of behavior. You need a hard skin because everyone in a while you'll run into someone who wants to prove how tough they are to you but generally if you're calm, logical, and not overly aggressive people will respond affirmatively.

Falconis
07-12-2011, 11:34 PM
How often do you see government pass good laws?

I am in the organize more range cleanups camp. Hell even making a presentation to ammo manufacturers on how to go green while saving money is a good thing. Trying to force regulation=way way bad.

yellowfin
07-13-2011, 8:09 AM
How often do you see government pass good laws? Wisconsin just did.

bussda
07-13-2011, 10:18 AM
Brass is made from copper and zinc. People steal copper to recycle for money. I wonder how much money could be made from recycling the brass?

FatalKitty
07-13-2011, 12:30 PM
^^^ Agreed.

I'm not in favor of allowing Sacto to pass yet another law, even a well intentioned one.

I'm all for our community petitioning manufacturers to make those changes on their own.

I am in agreement with not passing new laws - I hate new laws, especially ones that are hard to enforce and cost the state money.

I am writing 3 manufacturers of ammo now regarding their packaging... hoping to get a good response :)

RRichie09
07-13-2011, 12:58 PM
I am in agreement with not passing new laws - I hate new laws, especially ones that are hard to enforce and cost the state money.

I am writing 3 manufacturers of ammo now regarding their packaging... hoping to get a good response :)

Could we read this letter?

Falconis
07-14-2011, 11:21 AM
Wisconsin just did.

thats 1 out of how many so far?

Falconis
07-14-2011, 11:23 AM
Brass is made from copper and zinc. People steal copper to recycle for money. I wonder how much money could be made from recycling the brass?

I was talking to the guys at Livermore rod and gun and apparently it's enough that they were pleasantly surprised. I forgot the amount they told me for their 3 month run, but it was a nice paycheck.

blazeaglory
07-14-2011, 12:05 PM
Every time I go to a BLM or DFG range, there is trash everywhere. It makes me pretty mad :mad: - and we do our best to clean up what we can while the range is clear. But one of the things I notice makes up the majority of the trash is plastic bags, and ammo boxes/trays

Could we limit the types of materials that ammo is sold in to keep down the pollution to something more earth friendly?

I think this has two benefits:
1. it keeps pollution down by using biodegradable materials
2. it shows the general population that we are serious about our planet

The downside I see to this is legislation... another law would have to be passed (we could try doing it without law, by encouraging stores that sell ammo in plastic containers and bags like Big5 and wallmart; and talking to manufacturers of ammo)
this may increase cost to the consumer.. although I doubt it would be much

This is just an Idea... and I haven't thought it all the way through - so I am curious about what YOU guys think of it...


maybe we could just start with a campaign to encourage gun owners to be more responsible with their trash... but the sad reality is that anyone would who would listen to such advice is probably not the person causing all the trash in the first place.

Every range I have ever been to or seen has been disgusting. I mean how hard is it to pick up brass or use a brass catcher and throw away your trash and take it with you when a person leaves?

You right, the type of person that leaves the trash is the same type of person that does not give a ****. To me its disgusting. People live like pigs in their own houses so why would they care about public land or the rest of the world?