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View Full Version : Well "Fast and Furious" is getting its gun control push and its coming to CA


rjh4758
07-11-2011, 3:28 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-requires-gun-shops-in-4-southwest-border-states-to-report-on-buyers-of-high-powered-rifles/2011/07/11/gIQApCsI9H_story.html

Well the DOJ has just released that it is going to require the reporting of the purchase of 2 or more long guns in 4 boarder states, including CA.


What BS:mad:!

Just think of buying 2 or more AR receivers will require a form to the ATF, and they only estimate 18,000 reports a year. I know I have bought several guns at one time, several times.

marker
07-11-2011, 3:37 PM
Since it only applies to centerfire semi-autos with detachable magazines, it probably won't have much effect in CA at all since most such weapons would already fall under CA assault weapons laws. The related workaround is also apparent.

jl123
07-11-2011, 3:39 PM
Bullet buttons coming to AZ and TX it looks like (buy and remove).

taperxz
07-11-2011, 3:42 PM
Since it only applies to centerfire semi-autos with detachable magazines, it probably won't have much effect in CA at all since most such weapons would already fall under CA assault weapons laws. The related workaround is also apparent.

You ARE kidding, right??

ke6guj
07-11-2011, 3:43 PM
Since it only applies to centerfire semi-autos with detachable magazines, it probably won't have much effect in CA at all since most such weapons would already fall under CA assault weapons laws. The related workaround is also apparent.

that is assuming that ATF would look ata bullet-buttoned rifle as not having a detachable magazine.

I do seem to recall one of the FFLs having writen ATF earlier and getting a positive opinion on the use of a mag-lock making it a non-detachable magazine.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 3:44 PM
Since it only applies to centerfire semi-autos with detachable magazines, it probably won't have much effect in CA at all since most such weapons would already fall under CA assault weapons laws. The related workaround is also apparent.

It will be interesting to see how they word it. But good point on the detachable mag parts.

I am still hot on how they are able to push gun control on us for their screw up. As we all know this was the whole reason for this operation in the first place.

ChuangTzu
07-11-2011, 3:54 PM
Is this an expansion of their existing multiple firearms reporting policy? From where do they get the authority to require this reporting to begin with?

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
07-11-2011, 3:58 PM
ATF estimates the requirement will cover nearly 8,500 gun store operators in the four states, though less than 30 percent of those operators are expected to have multiple sales to report.

I'm calling total BS on this one. So they are estimating that only 2,550 FFL's will ever sell multiple rifles at once in a caliber bigger then .223...

Dunno who thought that one up! :rolleyes:

BannedinBritain
07-11-2011, 4:00 PM
that is assuming that ATF would look ata bullet-buttoned rifle as not having a detachable magazine.

I do seem to recall one of the FFLs having writen ATF earlier and getting a positive opinion on the use of a mag-lock making it a non-detachable magazine.

There is a letter which floated around a while back where ATF stated they do not consider the BB equipped rifles as "detachable magazine" firearms.

notme92069
07-11-2011, 4:03 PM
Now would be an excellent time to sue every M********* in the room. Isn't this explicitly not allowed by the 1968 gun control act?

Untamed1972
07-11-2011, 4:05 PM
Wouldn't this requirement violate some equal protection issue by targeting onnly residents of certain states?

BannedinBritain
07-11-2011, 4:06 PM
Found it...I guess it's an email from the firearms technology branch...but I seem to recall a letter as well?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383250&highlight=BATFE

Untamed1972
07-11-2011, 4:08 PM
Now would be an excellent time to sue every M********* in the room. Isn't this explicitly not allowed by the 1968 gun control act?

I think someone should file an injuction against ATF, banning them from enacting any new policies or regulations or changing any existing regs pending the outcome of the F&F hearings.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 4:16 PM
I think someone should file an injuction against ATF, banning them from enacting any new policies or regulations or changing any existing regs pending the outcome of the F&F hearings.

That is an awesome idea!

RRangel
07-11-2011, 4:20 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-requires-gun-shops-in-4-southwest-border-states-to-report-on-buyers-of-high-powered-rifles/2011/07/11/gIQApCsI9H_story.html

Well the DOJ has just released that it is going to require the reporting of the purchase of 2 or more long guns in 4 boarder states, including CA.


What BS:mad:!

Just think of buying 2 or more AR receivers will require a form to the ATF, and they only estimate 18,000 reports a year. I know I have bought several guns at one time, several times.

How are they going to get around Congress? That's who authorized "multiple" handgun reporting right? Something tells me there's going to be some hurdles implementing this.

barrym66
07-11-2011, 4:28 PM
How are they going to get around Congress? That's who authorized "multiple" handgun reporting right? Something tells me there's going to be some hurdles implementing this.

Obama issues an Executive Order, directing the DOJ (and therefore ATF) to implement this new registration requirement. Obama has been very clear that he would use the EO process to bypass Congress on "controversial" issues.

"Executive Orders. It's so easy, even a Kenyan can do it!"

See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/obama-gun-laws-congress_n_836138.html and http://1461days.blogspot.com/2009/01/current-list-of-president-obamas.html

Obama Looking For Ways Around Congress On Gun Policy

First Posted: 03/15/11 04:33 PM Updated: 03/23/11 09:09 AM

With Reporting By Lucia Graves

WASHINGTON -- Faced with a Congress hostile to even slight restrictions of Second Amendment rights, the Obama administration is exploring potential changes to gun laws that can be secured strictly through executive action, administration officials say....

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 4:29 PM
How are they going to get around Congress? That's who authorized "multiple" handgun reporting right? Something tells me there's going to be some hurdles implementing this.

Executive Order I believe, 2/3 of congress would have to vote it down otherwise the order will stand



"Executive Orders. It's so easy, even a Kenyan can do it!"




:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

Chatterbox
07-11-2011, 4:31 PM
Can't they just insert a provision that no money can be spent on it in a budget bill?

BobB35
07-11-2011, 4:35 PM
Executive Order I believe, 2/3 of congress would have to vote it down otherwise the order will stand





:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

Are executive orders good forever or do they expire at the end of the president who issues the orders term?

Chatterbox
07-11-2011, 4:38 PM
Are executive orders good forever or do they expire at the end of the president who issues the orders term?

Forever.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 4:38 PM
Are executive orders good forever or do they expire at the end of the president who issues the orders term?

They become law

barrym66
07-11-2011, 4:38 PM
Are executive orders good forever or do they expire at the end of the president who issues the orders term?

The EO would have to be rescinded by another EO (by a different President, obviously), or as mentioned, by a vote of 2/3 of Congress.

Unfortunately, there are not enough pro-2A votes in Congress now to stop Obama.

Chatterbox
07-11-2011, 4:41 PM
NRA: We'll sue over new reporting rule for multiple gun buys

The National Rifle Association is vowing to sue the Obama administration after it announced Monday that it will begin to require gun dealers in four border states to send reports to the government following multiple sales of some semi-automatic longarms.

"They don’t have the statutory authority to do it and we’ll file a lawsuit as soon as the first letters are sent" demanding the sales information from dealers, the NRA's legislative director Chris Cox told POLITICO Monday afternoon.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms announced in December that it planned to implement the rule on an emergency basis beginning in January in order to reduce the flow of assault weapons across the border into Mexico. However, the Office of Management and Budget rejected the emergency "information collection" and told ATF to proceed with a full, formal process and public comment period. The final proposed rule was made public on April 29.

Obama administration officials denied that the decision to proceed with the new reporting requirement or the timing of its implementation had anything to do with the controversy over and Congressional investigation into an ATF's "Operation Fast & Furious," which allegedly lost track of more than 100 weapons suspected of being headed for Mexican drug cartels. Two of those weapons showed up at the scene of the killing of a Border Patrol agent in December.

"The White House did not delay its consideration of ATF’s request," OMB spokeswoman Meg Reilly said. She said "OMB determined after careful review that ATF’s request did not satisfy" the standards for an emergency data collection and was required to go through the full notice and comment process before implementation.

Cox accused the Obama administration of making an end-run around Congress, which has approved mandatory reporting of multiple handgun purchases, but did not include long-arms or so-called assault weapons in that requirement.

"Because the American people don't approve of his gun-control agenda, he's trying to circumvent Congress, the NRA official said of Obama. "The whole thing is a disraction away from the gross incompetence that we’ve seen in this Fast & Furious scandal...The truth is a $40 billion criminal enterprise is not going to be worried about paperwork violations. This is not a serious attempt at controlling the drug cartels."

However, Deputy Attorney General James Cole said the reporting requirement--which does not block any purchases--will help in that fight.

"Certain types of semi-automatic rifles – greater than .22 caliber and with the ability to accept a detachable magazine – are highly sought after by dangerous drug trafficking organizations and frequently recovered at violent crime scenes near the Southwest Border," Cole said in a statement. "This new reporting measure -- tailored to focus only on multiple sales of these types of rifles to the same person within a five-day period -- will improve the ability [of the government] to detect and disrupt the illegal weapons trafficking networks responsible for diverting firearms from lawful commerce to criminals and criminal organizations."

Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), who has been pushing for answers about Fast & Furious, also said he believes the new rule is a diversion.

"Reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions," Grassley said in a statement. He said Congressional investigators are aware of at least150 long gun sales that ATF knew about but didn't prevent from reaching Mexico.

"This makes it pretty clear that the problem isn’t lack of burdensome reporting requirements. The administration’s continued overreach with regulations continues, and is a distraction from its reckless policy to allow guns to walk into Mexico," Grassley said.

The ATF operation is also under investigation by the Justice Department's Office of Inspector General.

A Justice Department spokeswoman had no comment on the NRA's planned lawsuit.

The Obama administration's decision to move forward with the new reporting rule for long guns purchased in border states was first reported by Newsweek/Daily Beast.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0711/NRA_Well_sue_over_new_reporting_rule_for_multiple_ gun_buys.html

RRangel
07-11-2011, 4:45 PM
Obama issues an Executive Order, directing the DOJ (and therefore ATF) to implement this new registration requirement. Obama has been very clear that he would use the EO process to bypass Congress on "controversial" issues.

"Executive Orders. It's so easy, even a Kenyan can do it!"

See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/15/obama-gun-laws-congress_n_836138.html and http://1461days.blogspot.com/2009/01/current-list-of-president-obamas.html


Executive Orders have been mentioned. Not that that would suffice as a legal explanation. It appears just because the DOJ and the White House say so.

Wherryj
07-11-2011, 4:46 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/us-requires-gun-shops-in-4-southwest-border-states-to-report-on-buyers-of-high-powered-rifles/2011/07/11/gIQApCsI9H_story.html

Well the DOJ has just released that it is going to require the reporting of the purchase of 2 or more long guns in 4 boarder states, including CA.


What BS:mad:!

Just think of buying 2 or more AR receivers will require a form to the ATF, and they only estimate 18,000 reports a year. I know I have bought several guns at one time, several times.

I think that this forum alone is good for at least 18k reports a year. Anyone up for an ATF group buy?

thepunisher
07-11-2011, 4:46 PM
This guy just wants to go out in a blaze of glory, I hope this helps fuel people to get out and vote for a better President.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 4:47 PM
The EO would have to be rescinded by another EO (by a different President, obviously), or as mentioned, by a vote of 2/3 of Congress.

Unfortunately, there are not enough pro-2A votes in Congress now to stop Obama.

The only other way is a lawsuit, because the EO was beyond the power of the executive branch. Which in this case isn't going to happen. It would have to be overturned by the Supreme court and he has already hand picked two justices and it is possible there could be two more that retire. Which would give him a little more advantage to abusing his power.

My guess is Fast and Furious was Obama's "under the radar" attack on the second amendment. Since it has blown up and he will not get congressional support that he was hoping for he will just use EO to get what he can. Fortunately for us he will not get the control that he had hoped for and most likely will not get an assault weapons ban.

This guy just wants to go out in a blaze of glory, I hope this helps fuel people to get out and vote for a better President.

Unfortunately it is not receiving the media attention it deserves.

Executive Orders have been mentioned. Though this information is not mentioned in the article. Not that that would suffice as a legal explanation. It appears just because the DOJ and the White House say so.

Its mentioned here http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/11/obama-s-new-gun-control-regulations-exclusive.html

timdps
07-11-2011, 4:51 PM
Since it only applies to centerfire semi-autos with detachable magazines, it probably won't have much effect in CA at all since most such weapons would already fall under CA assault weapons laws. The related workaround is also apparent.

Aside from the BS law, LOL! Bullet buttons for everyone in TX, NM and AZ. Actually N-1 bullet buttons (where N is the number of long guns in the sale) because the first long gun would not need one. They could remove them after the sale, whereas we can not (unless made featureless).

Found it...I guess it's an email from the firearms technology branch...but I seem to recall a letter as well?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383250&highlight=BATFE

Of course the ATF could reverse itself on the BB issue to head off the workaround, but would that crate a "circuit split" between the BATFE and the CA DOJ?

Tim

FreedomIsNotFree
07-11-2011, 4:55 PM
This is nothing more than Obama placating his gun control base. Once this grand idea is shot down by the courts Obama will claim that he is at least trying.

SDS-Ruger
07-11-2011, 4:59 PM
this is probably going to be the start another buying spree.:willy_nilly:

choprzrul
07-11-2011, 5:00 PM
I see a booming market for bullet buttons along the border.

Too bad that we can't clone Alan Gura. He sure did a good job on Fox News this morning. Articulate and used an example that was easy for Joe Citizen to relate to.

thepunisher
07-11-2011, 5:03 PM
this is probably going to be the start another buying spree.:willy_nilly:

I think BO is running for gun salesmen of the year...hmm wonder if the NRA could present it. The look on his face would be priceless

barrym66
07-11-2011, 5:06 PM
I think BO is running for gun salesmen of the year...hmm wonder if the NRA could present it. The look on his face would be priceless

It will be 2009 all over again. ;)

http://hereticdhammasangha.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/image001.jpg?w=420&h=600

SDS-Ruger
07-11-2011, 5:09 PM
I think BO is running for gun salesmen of the year...hmm wonder if the NRA could present it. The look on his face would be priceless

maybe this is how BO is planning to fix the economy with all the sale increases. :rofl:

choprzrul
07-11-2011, 5:12 PM
I think BO is running for gun salesmen of the year...hmm wonder if the NRA could present it. The look on his face would be priceless

Perhaps an annually awarded "Gun Ownership Champion" award?

"President Obama is personally responsible for a 250% increase in firearms sales over the past 24 months. His actions have served to significantly increase gun ownership...." "...the entire firearms industry looks forward to him mentioning any kind of gun control measures...."

How many degrees of awesome would that be?

socalblue
07-11-2011, 5:16 PM
Even if the EO was somehow legal how would it help? Several dealers went to ATF over suspected straw purchases & were told to let them happen, creating what became Operation Fast and Furious. Sure worked out well ....:eek:

Paul S
07-11-2011, 5:23 PM
Executive Order I believe, 2/3 of congress would have to vote it down otherwise the order will stand:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

And the likelihood of that every happening is as we know next to nil. What I fear is that as Obozo gets a handle on the success of his Executive Orders he will begin to issue more and increasingly onerous E.O.'s in the name of gun control.

TCB Firearms
07-11-2011, 5:23 PM
From where do they get the authority to require this reporting to begin with?

They DON'T, it is in contradiction to the GCA. A gross dereliction of duty when added to the fact they could not follow purchases they funded and watched happen.:mad:

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 5:35 PM
And the likelihood of that every happening is as we know next to nil. What I fear is that as Obozo gets a handle on the success of his Executive Orders he will begin to issue more and increasingly onerous E.O.'s in the name of gun control.

Especially after he loses next November(he still has 2 months in office after the loss) or worse yet he wins :eek: next November.

green grunt
07-11-2011, 5:38 PM
so if I buy 2 lowers (multical)...and tell the dealer that they will be 22 rimfire rifles does that count ? guess I'll have to buy "all" the rifles I want/need right now , BHO is the best gun salesman around.......maybe we should get a group buy going for stock in S&W and Colt...etc...etc....:yes:

this is such...cowflop !

smallshot13
07-11-2011, 5:52 PM
What happens if the gun community, FFL's included, get a collective spine and just say no? How much paperwork would that generate? Enough to burry them? I am not an FFL, so I can say that without exposure to loss of my business, but....... I wonder if multiple purchases in far northern CA cities which are closer to Canada than they are to Mexico would go down as potential plaintiffs.

BannedinBritain
07-11-2011, 5:57 PM
so if I buy 2 lowers (multical)...and tell the dealer that they will be 22 rimfire rifles does that count ? guess I'll have to buy "all" the rifles I want/need right now , BHO is the best gun salesman around.......maybe we should get a group buy going for stock in S&W and Colt...etc...etc....:yes:

this is such...cowflop !

Receivers, complete lowers or "stripped", are not semi-automatic rifles...therefore you could DROS 9999 of them on one DROS and there would be no multi-sale report...God the government is so stupid...lol

RRangel
07-11-2011, 5:58 PM
The only other way is a lawsuit, because the EO was beyond the power of the executive branch. Which in this case isn't going to happen.

My guess is Fast and Furious was Obama's "under the radar" attack on the second amendment. Since it has blown up and he will not get congressional support that he was hoping for he will just use EO to get what he can. Fortunately for us he will not get the control that he had hoped for and most likely will not get an assault weapons ban.



Unfortunately it is not receiving the media attention it deserves.



Its mentioned here http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/11/obama-s-new-gun-control-regulations-exclusive.html

Somehow glossed over that or I was reading a different article.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 5:58 PM
What happens if the gun community, FFL's included, get a collective spine and just say no? How much paperwork would that generate? Enough to burry them? I am not an FFL, so I can say that without exposure to loss of my business, but....... I wonder if multiple purchases in far northern CA cities which are closer to Canada than they are to Mexico would go down as potential plaintiffs.

Do not comply and they would just yank your FFL and the Obama administration wins.

hoffmang
07-11-2011, 6:55 PM
I am bemused that the bullet button is going to cause ATF so much trouble!

-Gene

MolonLabe2008
07-11-2011, 7:15 PM
Who needs gun control bills to sign when you have appointments, federal agencies and executive orders at your disposal?


Appointed two anti-gun Supreme Court justices.
Appointed an anti-gun director of the BATF.
"Fast and Furious" operation.
Now requiring four states to report gun transactions under certain conditions.

When are the Obama supporters going to admit they made a HUGE mistake?

blazeaglory
07-11-2011, 7:16 PM
They become law

A future president can over turn it or 2/3 of congress.

And why should we suffer for something the ATF and DOJ did in the first place? I cant understand why the 2A public is meant to suffer because the government screwed up? Cant that be the basis for a lawsuit?

gatdammit
07-11-2011, 7:22 PM
Perhaps an annually awarded "Gun Ownership Champion" award?

"President Obama is personally responsible for a 250% increase in firearms sales over the past 24 months. His actions have served to significantly increase gun ownership...." "...the entire firearms industry looks forward to him mentioning any kind of gun control measures...."

How many degrees of awesome would that be?

Something else is coming to mind... 'the most transparent government' award? Irony at its finest.

Wernher von Browning
07-11-2011, 7:34 PM
A future president can over turn it or 2/3 of congress.


Problem is, note that these things have a built-in "ratcheting" mechanism. No matter which party is in power, the things they implement -- including by EO or other questionable means -- tend to be set in stone.

The next guy runs on a campaign of "change" but it's all one big lie; once he's warming that big leather chair in the Oval Office, he looks at what the predecessor did and says "you know, I kinda like that, the heck with the promises, I'm not gonna change that, and we can just blame the other guys for it." See for example various sandbox wars, Gitmo, warrantless wiretaps, Freedom Gropes at the airport, all the rest of it.

For example: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=91286
or
http://newsgnome.blogspot.com/2009/03/official-list-of-obamas-broken-promises.html


I don't have a list but I don't recall Baby Bush blowing into town and undoing all the damaged caused by Bubba before him.

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 7:42 PM
A future president can over turn it or 2/3 of congress.

And why should we suffer for something the ATF and DOJ did in the first place? I cant understand why the 2A public is meant to suffer because the government screwed up? Cant that be the basis for a lawsuit?

The ATF didn't do it. It all started with the 90% lie, that 90% of all guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels came from the US. So Obama, DOJ and ATF tried to make that lie a reality. But whoops they got caught so rather than forget it he will just push what he can through on a EO. If that goes past everyone than he will try for more.

blazeaglory
07-11-2011, 7:48 PM
The ATF didn't do it. It all started with the 90% lie, that 90% of all guns in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels came from the US. So Obama, DOJ and ATF tried to make that lie a reality. But whoops they got caught so rather than forget it he will just push what he can through on a EO. If that goes past everyone than he will try for more.

That sucks man. I feel used

dantodd
07-11-2011, 8:02 PM
I am bemused that the bullet button is going to cause ATF so much trouble!

-Gene


Instead of "take a penny, leave a penny" jars omn he counter they can have "need a button, take a button" jars. It's not like anyone wants to keep the damned things once they buy the gun.

thepunisher
07-11-2011, 8:10 PM
Where's Jack Bauer to get to the bottom...er top of this scandal.
Operation Fast and Furious goes all the way to BO's desk and it makes me sick.

FourTenJaeger
07-11-2011, 8:16 PM
Hopefully, Free states will tell the GOV To shove this up their ***. We've already got the Feds suing us over SB1070, Might as well tell them to shove off! Remember, not one inch.

oldguy870
07-11-2011, 8:52 PM
Another example of the collapse of the rule of law.

1. Congress holds the power to declare war, not the President (Libya).
2. Congress makes laws, not the President (this gun control law)
3. Congress has the power of the purse, not the President (Obama threatens to raise the debt celling on his own)

America is collapsing into a dictatorial fascist police state.

dfletcher
07-11-2011, 8:55 PM
that is assuming that ATF would look ata bullet-buttoned rifle as not having a detachable magazine.

I do seem to recall one of the FFLs having writen ATF earlier and getting a positive opinion on the use of a mag-lock making it a non-detachable magazine.

IIRC ATF considers the FN 49 to have a detachable magazine - that requires a tool (and is much more a PITA to release) and when the "magazine" is released it turns into parts. A mag body, spring and follower.

DannyInSoCal
07-11-2011, 9:04 PM
Where is the wrongful death lawsuit against the administration on behalf of the border patrol agent?

vincewarde
07-11-2011, 9:20 PM
Where is the wrongful death lawsuit against the administration on behalf of the border patrol agent?

It's coming - see my Gunwalker thread.

The some Dems are trying to use Gunwalker to push gun control - but if it turns out that the motive here was to further gun control, it will not happen. Obama should be very concerned about this. The investigation is only one or two steps away from him and his denials could come back to bite him.

One thing is absolutely certain - if it can be proven that Obama ordered this, he is GONE. Hello President Biden. No way any president could survive that.

Even if it stops at Holder, it is going to be a huge embarrassment. The mainstream media is slowly waking up to this and at some point they are going to figure out that there was no way Gunwalker could possibly be a sting operation. When they figure that out, they are going to demand answers.

As for executive orders, either he does or does not have legal authority for them - and talking about questions: Why do this when the dealers were already reporting these transactions voluntarily? We need to keep asking questions like that in forums, talk shows, anywhere we can. We also need to educate all of our non-gun type friends, because once the anger breaks out of the "gun culture" we have a much better chance to get answers.

ojisan
07-11-2011, 9:31 PM
I am bemused that the bullet button is going to cause ATF so much trouble!

-Gene

Merely bemused?
:confused:

C'mon, it's worth a genuine belly laugh or two.
:D

BlackRain17
07-11-2011, 9:34 PM
If I'm Mexican and a drug dealer, does this law exclude me? :43:

The War Wagon
07-11-2011, 9:36 PM
Now playing - in a state near YOU! :(



http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/project-gunrunner-operation-gunrunner-gunwalker-fast-and-furious-barack-obama-eric-holder-janet-napolitano-atf-doj-dhs-sad-hill-news.jpg

blazeaglory
07-11-2011, 9:38 PM
Now playing - in a state near YOU! :(



http://sadhillnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/project-gunrunner-operation-gunrunner-gunwalker-fast-and-furious-barack-obama-eric-holder-janet-napolitano-atf-doj-dhs-sad-hill-news.jpg


Lol!!

Wernher von Browning
07-11-2011, 9:44 PM
One thing is absolutely certain - if it can be proven that Obama ordered this, he is GONE. Hello President Biden. No way any president could survive that.

Whoa. Hold on a sec. Frying pan? Fire? Frying pan? Fire? Such choices, alla da time such choices... Do we prefer the devil we know, or replace him with a certifiable chucklehead?

You realize, of course, that people like Biden, Gore, Cheney, Quayle, are all insurance policies for POTUS? As in "Better be nice to me, or else you get... THIS!!!

rjh4758
07-11-2011, 10:57 PM
It's coming - see my Gunwalker thread.

The some Dems are trying to use Gunwalker to push gun control - but if it turns out that the motive here was to further gun control, it will not happen. Obama should be very concerned about this. The investigation is only one or two steps away from him and his denials could come back to bite him.

One thing is absolutely certain - if it can be proven that Obama ordered this, he is GONE. Hello President Biden. No way any president could survive that.

Even if it stops at Holder, it is going to be a huge embarrassment. The mainstream media is slowly waking up to this and at some point they are going to figure out that there was no way Gunwalker could possibly be a sting operation. When they figure that out, they are going to demand answers.

As for executive orders, either he does or does not have legal authority for them - and talking about questions: Why do this when the dealers were already reporting these transactions voluntarily? We need to keep asking questions like that in forums, talk shows, anywhere we can. We also need to educate all of our non-gun type friends, because once the anger breaks out of the "gun culture" we have a much better chance to get answers.


I couldn't agree more!

What just totally boggles my mind is we are sitting on what could be the biggest presidential scandal of the history of the US. What I mean by this is if Obama ordered these acts all we need is two witnesses and I am sure he could be tried for treason. Under article III Section 3 of the US constitution :

Treason against the United States shall consist only I levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving aid and comfort.

What do you call suppling weapons to cartels that are fighting US law enforcement? Aiding the enemy?

Even if we can not take it that far he violate federal law, supported illegal enterprise, abuse of power, violated Mexico's sovereignty.

We also do not want to forget what may have also been the motive. Back in 2009 he wanted the US to join the Inter-American Convention against the Illicit Manufacture of and Trafficking in Firearms. By joining this group it would have gutted the second amendment because manufacture or modification of a firearm, manufacturing of ammunition of unlicensed individuals would have been a violation of the treaty. So reloading or building an AR would be a violation of the treaty and illegal. There is more but it would have been BAD!

DarthSean
07-12-2011, 12:21 AM
I see a booming market for bullet buttons along the border.

Too bad that we can't clone Alan Gura. He sure did a good job on Fox News this morning. Articulate and used an example that was easy for Joe Citizen to relate to.

Do you happen to have a link for the video? I can't find it on Fox News.

Tarn_Helm
07-12-2011, 12:59 AM
It will be 2009 all over again. ;)

http://hereticdhammasangha.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/image001.jpg?w=420&h=600

Can someone please photoshop a small but visible "NRA" pin onto his left lapel?

For me, that would be the final touch.

:D

winxp_man
07-12-2011, 1:07 AM
Now would be an excellent time to sue every M********* in the room. Isn't this explicitly not allowed by the 1968 gun control act?


+1 I would also just like for this F&F op gone bad to blow back into the obaminations administration's face soon! Then this might not come to be.

winxp_man
07-12-2011, 1:11 AM
If I'm Mexican and a drug dealer, does this law exclude me? :43:

Its 100% right ! :43:

Also how do I go about getting a cartel license ? That way the mother FU@#KERS running the FU@KED UP government will leave me the FU$K alone and instead supply me with weapons :43:

DarthSean
07-12-2011, 1:17 AM
Its 100% right ! :43:

Also how do I go about getting a cartel license ? That way the mother FU@#KERS running the FU@KED UP government will leave me the FU$K alone and instead supply me with weapons :43:

:hurray: +1,000

integraracer157
07-12-2011, 1:41 AM
This was an EPIC post. I read so much BS from post on here. It as worth the read and good laugh.

triplestack3
07-12-2011, 7:38 AM
Can someone please photoshop a small but visible "NRA" pin onto his left lapel?

For me, that would be the final touch.

:D

like this?
http://i55.tinypic.com/27zyj4h.jpg

thenodnarb
07-12-2011, 11:49 AM
Do you suppose this is why BO refused to send any meaningful border protection to the borders? Can't have anything disrupting project gun runner.

choprzrul
07-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Do you happen to have a link for the video? I can't find it on Fox News.

I have looked several times and can't find it.

.