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View Full Version : Necessity defense wins against CCWing HGN w/o permit in SF!


Paladin
07-10-2011, 10:05 PM
1) Man was acquitted by a jury of CCWing HGN w/o a permit in SF.
2) Jury was hung re. a 2nd misdemeanor charge of CCWing HGN w/o a permit.
3) The judge dismissed the charge of also possessing, not carrying, a nunchaku.

Article at: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/07/man-acquitted-conceealed-weapon-charge-necessity-defense

What has happened to SF? Have sane people infiltrated there?

Or has there been an Invasion of the Body Snatchers operation by some Republican PAC? ;) LOL! :D

KandyRedCoi
07-10-2011, 10:06 PM
i dont think the results would be the same if it was a FIREARM

Joe
07-10-2011, 10:09 PM
i dont think the results would be the same if it was a FIREARM

It was a firearm..

KandyRedCoi
07-10-2011, 10:14 PM
lol i thought it said NUNCHUCKS...my bad

Paladin
07-10-2011, 10:18 PM
He was CCWing a HGN. I'm *guessing* he had 'chucks in his car, since the charge there was possession, not CCWing. I'll edit the OP and title to be more clear.

CC Gunsmithing
07-10-2011, 10:19 PM
Free at last, Free at last, Lord almighty, we are free at last!!!
Well, not totally, but at least it's a step in the right direction!

Krak
07-10-2011, 10:46 PM
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ;)

winxp_man
07-10-2011, 10:50 PM
Maybe they seen these videos :D

http://youtu.be/y54yESyq6Io

and

http://youtu.be/VKsVSBhSwJg

Crom
07-10-2011, 10:53 PM
Common sense prevailed.

mag360
07-10-2011, 10:59 PM
love it. good stuff.

jl123
07-10-2011, 11:08 PM
Jury nullification!!!!!

Krak
07-10-2011, 11:28 PM
Couple of comments on that article are A-class anti-gun douchery.

safewaysecurity
07-10-2011, 11:37 PM
Jury nullification!!!!!

Precisely. If I were ever on a jury and someone with no criminal background were charged with carrying a weapon without a permit I would't care what anyone else said I would not even consider the charge.

DRM6000
07-10-2011, 11:58 PM
i wonder how he got caught making a short trip to the car to retrieve things. i also wonder why he was carrying a handgun and nunchukus?

mag360
07-11-2011, 2:07 AM
because nunchaku are cool? they were in his car. I don't know how he got busted with the gun tho.

CABilly
07-11-2011, 3:28 AM
Yeah, I'd like to know how he was busted in the first place.


Also, for this to only be resolved after two years.. yowch. I'm happy for the result, but it must have been a major major PITA for Mr. Stone.

gonzo1510
07-11-2011, 4:02 AM
Wow is all I can say..... the end times must be near for this to have come from San Francisco ...

ccmc
07-11-2011, 6:27 AM
Yeah, I'd like to know how he was busted in the first place.


Also, for this to only be resolved after two years.. yowch. I'm happy for the result, but it must have been a major major PITA for Mr. Stone.

There was a similar case in NYC where a guy from Florida was arrested for illegal possession of a handgun. He was stopped by NYPD for turning right on a red light (illegal in NYC). He had a Glock in his glovebox (legal for him in FL as he has a Florida CWFL) which was visible when he got his registration. So he was arrested. The jury acquitted him because they believed his defense that he always carried the gun that way in FL, and had forgot it was there (he was in NYC to help his GF move back to FL). Still cost him 50 grand in legal and travel expenses.

CitaDeL
07-11-2011, 6:44 AM
Hell's ambient temperature in degrees Farenheit < 32, conditions icy.

I wonder if that will happen again.

cineski
07-11-2011, 7:30 AM
Lots of shootings lately in West LA. Case law?

GaryV
07-11-2011, 7:45 AM
He had a Glock in his glovebox (legal for him in FL as he has a Florida CWFL)

That's legal in Florida even without a CWFL.

Andy Taylor
07-11-2011, 8:06 AM
Good news.

:kilt:

shooting4life
07-11-2011, 8:17 AM
And that is why you show up when you get a jury summons.

FastFinger
07-11-2011, 8:18 AM
i dont think the results would be the same if it was a FIREARM

It was a firearm..


Maybe the misunderstanding was due to the the letters "HGN" in the original post?

Personally I didn't immediately interpret HGN as "handgun" either. In fact my initial response was "WTH?"

Can't really blame myself, HGN isn't listed at the All Acronym (http://www.all-acronyms.com/) website (their official definitions are: hereditary glomerulonephritis; horizontal gaze nystagmus; human genome news;hypogastric nerve; and hypogastric nerves).

Adding to the confusion is that HGN isn't even defined on the Official Calguns.net Acronym Thread (OCAT) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78606&highlight=acronyms). Not in the initial list nor in any of the following OCAT posts by CGN members.

FWIW this is MON AM and although I'm walking about and surfing the net my brain won't be joining me until sometime in the PM, so it took a few seconds to put HGN in context before the light-bulb went off... HandGuN!

Since we're generating abbrs, IIRC the goal of an abbreviation or acronym is to lessen the burden of typing out common wds. A laudable goal BTW. I figure that the big SRO allots each of us only so many key strokes in our life, and when you complete that last one - BINGO! You fall dead and move onto the great range in the sky. It's also pretty clear that a keystroke is very similar to a trigger pull - so each additional keystroke means you have one less shot to fire - NG. WTIM (with that in mind) IMHO if we're going to abbreviate "Hand Gun" we should go for broke here - "HG".

HG - and not a keystroke more. TYVM.

Re,
FF

Paladin
07-11-2011, 8:29 AM
Maybe the misunderstanding was due to the the letters "HGN" in the original post?

Personally I didn't immediately interpret HGN as "handgun" either. In fact my initial response was "WTH?"



The OP has been edited a few times for clarity since some people posted w/o reading the linked article. Adding HGN was one of the edits. Another was specifying that the chucks were a possession, not carry charge.

Write Winger
07-11-2011, 8:37 AM
Classy FF, classy!

FastFinger
07-11-2011, 8:39 AM
BTW...

A friend of mine manages a lot of SF apartments and is very plugged into SF politics. His take is that in the last few years the % of home owners over renters has increased significantly. New construction, and a lot of condo conversions.

While being a new home owner doesn't automatically mean one logs onto CGN or joins the NRA, it does alter one's worldview a bit - all of a sudden you have more skin in the game and more at risk. One's more likely of favor the Castle Doctrine when one's name is on the Castle's title.

Hopefully this may point to a growing trend. Can't happen soon enough.

Pixs
07-11-2011, 10:37 AM
Welcome news!

Wherryj
07-11-2011, 11:01 AM
1) Man was acquitted by a jury of CCWing HGN w/o a permit in SF.
2) Jury was hung re. a 2nd misdemeanor charge of CCWing HGN w/o a permit.
3) The judge dismissed the charge of also possessing, not carrying, a nunchaku.

Article at: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2011/07/man-acquitted-conceealed-weapon-charge-necessity-defense

What has happened to SF? Have sane people infiltrated there?

Or has there been an Invasion of the Body Snatchers operation by some Republican PAC? ;) LOL! :D

My goodness. He possessed a pair of nunchaku and the entire universe didn't spontaneously combust?

Wherryj
07-11-2011, 11:03 AM
Maybe the misunderstanding was due to the the letters "HGN" in the original post?

Personally I didn't immediately interpret HGN as "handgun" either. In fact my initial response was "WTH?"

Can't really blame myself, HGN isn't listed at the All Acronym (http://www.all-acronyms.com/) website (their official definitions are: hereditary glomerulonephritis; horizontal gaze nystagmus; human genome news;hypogastric nerve; and hypogastric nerves).

Adding to the confusion is that HGN isn't even defined on the Official Calguns.net Acronym Thread (OCAT) (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78606&highlight=acronyms). Not in the initial list nor in any of the following OCAT posts by CGN members.

FWIW this is MON AM and although I'm walking about and surfing the net my brain won't be joining me until sometime in the PM, so it took a few seconds to put HGN in context before the light-bulb went off... HandGuN!

Since we're generating abbrs, IIRC the goal of an abbreviation or acronym is to lessen the burden of typing out common wds. A laudable goal BTW. I figure that the big SRO allots each of us only so many key strokes in our life, and when you complete that last one - BINGO! You fall dead and move onto the great range in the sky. It's also pretty clear that a keystroke is very similar to a trigger pull - so each additional keystroke means you have one less shot to fire - NG. WTIM (with that in mind) IMHO if we're going to abbreviate "Hand Gun" we should go for broke here - "HG".

HG - and not a keystroke more. TYVM.

Re,
FF

That's pretty funny. I'm a physician and pretty much ALL of the acronyms you posted are medical, yet I thought of "Handgun" immediately upon reading the post.

Stonewalker
07-11-2011, 11:11 AM
My goodness, this is... epic! Right? A jury in anti-gun mecca threw out a violation of 12050. Seems pretty damn epic.

dantodd
07-11-2011, 11:17 AM
That's pretty funny. I'm a physician and pretty much ALL of the acronyms you posted are medical, yet I thought of "Handgun" immediately upon reading the post.

Me too. "CCWing HGN" I can only think of one thing that someone would be CCWing that could possibly be labeled "HGN."

bwiese
07-11-2011, 11:22 AM
Lucky charge was dismissed on the nunchucks. I believe those are felony only (i.e., no wobbler).

Baconator
07-11-2011, 11:30 AM
Hgn= home and garden network

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

dantodd
07-11-2011, 11:31 AM
Lucky charge was dismissed on the nunchucks. I believe those are felony only (i.e., no wobbler).

With the GVR in Maloney I doubt that anyone can reasonably be charged with straight Nunchuck possession right now.

nicki
07-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Since we have two supreme court rulings affirming we have a right to own guns for self defense, would it be reasonable to "disqualify" any juror who opposes gun owners for cause on grounds that they are not impartial?

Seems to me keeping a anti gun juror on a gun case would be the equivalent of keeping a card carrying member of the KKK on a jury where the defendant is "Black".

Love to hear from the "Right People" for their comments, but it seems to me that we could substantially eliminate anti gunners in jury pools.

The fact that a San Fran paper even published the story is a good sign because now instead of the story being buried, it will spread.:D

Nicki

Ratboy
07-11-2011, 12:50 PM
And that is why you show up when you get a jury summons.

When I was younger I only saw jury duty as a pita. I understand how important it is, now that I've aged a bit and learned things I should have known a long time ago.

As a hairstylist I am in a position to have discussions with my clients about many interesting things and one of them has been the topic of jury duty and jury nullification. I didn't know about it until I bought the book "50 things they don't want you to know" (I think that's the title, it's something like that) by Disinformation.

I find that living in S.F. and being in the industry I'm in that it's a fine line I tread by openly talking about these issues but it's important. I know I've lost more than a few clients in the past two years due to me expressing my (unpopular in S.F.) views about our rights. I've also discovered how many of us in San Francisco are in the closet, so to speak, about our beliefs in the 2nd Amendment and our ownership of firearms!

I'm really happy to read this article and to know that this man was acquitted by an S.F. Jury! Now, I look forward to my next summons and have already figured out a way to both serve and still be able to work (evening appointments so I can pay my rent).

ccmc
07-11-2011, 1:55 PM
That's legal in Florida even without a CWFL.

You're probably right. I've had a CWFL so long I don't remember.

5thgen4runner
07-11-2011, 1:56 PM
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ;)

Amen

FastFinger
07-11-2011, 2:45 PM
Since we have two supreme court rulings affirming we have a right to own guns for self defense, would it be reasonable to "disqualify" any juror who opposes gun owners for cause on grounds that they are not impartial?

Seems to me keeping a anti gun juror on a gun case would be the equivalent of keeping a card carrying member of the KKK on a jury where the defendant is "Black".

Love to hear from the "Right People" for their comments, but it seems to me that we could substantially eliminate anti gunners in jury pools.

The fact that a San Fran paper even published the story is a good sign because now instead of the story being buried, it will spread.:D

Nicki


Good point. I think that we'd do well to start pushing the "gun rights - civil rights" angle.


When I was younger I only saw jury duty as a pita. I understand how important it is, now that I've aged a bit and learned things I should have known a long time ago.


Likewise. Jury duty can be an inconvenience, but it's critical that responsible citizens serve.

Ms. FastFinger served on civil trial in SF years ago. Some knucklehead was hanging off of a cable car (despite being told not to) and grazed a car. No real injury at all, but he sued the city. My wife and another person fought tooth and nail to not award the putz one penny. But there was a lawyer on the jury and her argument that "the plaintiff and his lawyer spent all this time bringing this case, we got to give them something." won the day since a unanimous verdict isn't needed.

Post trial the judge debriefed the jury and pretty much said that my wife and the other hold out were right, if anything the guy and his lawyer should be paying the county for filing a frivolous suit.

Clearly in a criminal case much more is at stake. I look forward to serving.

FastFinger
07-11-2011, 2:56 PM
Since we have two supreme court rulings affirming we have a right to own guns for self defense, would it be reasonable to "disqualify" any juror who opposes gun owners for cause on grounds that they are not impartial?

Seems to me keeping a anti gun juror on a gun case would be the equivalent of keeping a card carrying member of the KKK on a jury where the defendant is "Black".

Love to hear from the "Right People" for their comments, but it seems to me that we could substantially eliminate anti gunners in jury pools.

The fact that a San Fran paper even published the story is a good sign because now instead of the story being buried, it will spread.:D

Nicki


Good point. I think that we'd do well to start pushing the "gun rights - civil rights" angle.


When I was younger I only saw jury duty as a pita. I understand how important it is, now that I've aged a bit and learned things I should have known a long time ago.


Likewise. Jury duty can be an inconvenience, but it's critical that responsible citizens serve.

Ms. FastFinger served on civil trial in SF years ago. Some knucklehead was hanging off of a cable car (despite being told not to) and grazed a car. No real injury at all, but he sued the city. My wife and another person fought tooth and nail to not award the putz one penny. But there was a lawyer on the jury and her argument that "the plaintiff and his lawyer spent all this time bringing this case, we got to give them something." won the day since a unanimous verdict isn't needed.

Post trial the judge debriefed the jury and pretty much said that my wife and the other hold out were right, if anything the guy and his lawyer should be paying the county for filing a frivolous suit.

Clearly in a criminal case much more is at stake. I look forward to serving.

wildhawker
07-11-2011, 3:30 PM
Gun rights, civil rights... All sounds very familiar...

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/wildhawker/62bf8346.jpg

Stonewalker
07-11-2011, 4:07 PM
Thanks for doing your part RatBoy! Talking about guns as regular things in the anti gun mecca is important!

warbird
07-11-2011, 8:22 PM
It is the jury that can make the difference in these cases and it is why it is important to serve when asked. If you get the chance to sit on the SF grand jury jump at it because you can recommend change if you can convince the grand jury that the gun issue needs to be looked at due to changing demographics. It is a small victory on a long march to freedoms we once had but it gives hope. I know twelve people I would like to shake the hand of even with one count being hung.

model63
07-12-2011, 1:28 AM
Lucky charge was dismissed on the nunchucks. I believe those are felony only (i.e., no wobbler).

maybe they figured only Bruce Lee and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were capable of using them effectively? If anything those things are more a danger to the person wielding them than any potential opponent :D

tonelar
07-12-2011, 2:20 AM
Nice banner Wildhawker.

This is pretty amazing news! Makes me a little prouder of SF.

gunsmith
07-12-2011, 10:27 AM
With the GVR in Maloney I doubt that anyone can reasonably be charged with straight Nunchuck possession right now.

uh, I know the Maloney case is the NY Nunchuk case but otherwise, can you clarify?

gunsmith
07-12-2011, 6:03 PM
please? I like using chuks and would like a less then lethal option as I'm pretty good with them.

Librarian
07-12-2011, 6:48 PM
Nice banner Wildhawker.

This is pretty amazing news! Makes me a little prouder of SF.

Darn right - new desktop background pic for me!