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View Full Version : DOJ admits knowledge of Op. Gunrunner


downfall
07-09-2011, 5:55 AM
at the highest level, on no less than CSPAN:


http://tractioncontrol.well-regulatedmilitia.org/

cineski
07-09-2011, 5:57 AM
The big O knew about this and should be impeached because of it. And good Lord am I sick of hearing the term "illegal weapons in the United States." This term is the new "green," the old most abused word in the American English language.

Dutch3
07-09-2011, 6:03 AM
Oh, damn!

:D

tankarian
07-09-2011, 9:54 AM
Watch at 0:55

-PNhYk9NuNc

I'm sure it was all a big misunderstanding...:rolleyes:

FastFinger
07-09-2011, 10:11 AM
I think Project Gunrunner was actually started back in 2005.

The practice of allowing, or even encouraging, illegal cross border transfers of firearms started in early 2009.

CalBear
07-09-2011, 10:17 AM
Not surprise at all, but wow. What's their excuse now? They didn't know what Gunrunner entailed? Either way you slice it, they're incompetent and/or criminal. Top level officials should be jailed over this.

eaglemike
07-09-2011, 10:19 AM
Watch at 0:55

-PNhYk9NuNc

I'm sure it was all a big misunderstanding...:rolleyes:

This just keeps getting better. Using 10 million in recovery money?? I could have created a boatload more jobs that they did using it like that. Jeepers!

CalBear
07-09-2011, 10:19 AM
The practice of allowing, or even encouraging, illegal cross border transfers of firearms started in early 2009.
And you can bet that was a direct result of the Obama admin policy. They made the push to gather info on cartels and US trafficking, and I'm sure it directly led to that practice.

Full Clip
07-09-2011, 10:34 AM
Will be interesting to see how far this goes to the top... And who will fall on their sword to protect BHO.

Quser.619
07-09-2011, 10:46 AM
It will end with Holder &/or Napolitano resigning. Maybe heads of BATFE, DEA & FBI. There will be no convictions, because the media will keep it focused solely on the BATFE - never mentioning or shifting the focus frm the US Attorney's Office, IRS, DHS, DEA & FBI. No multijurisdictional task force or operation of this size or scope could ever come into play w/o the approval of the DOJ, DHS or at the very minimum Director Level of FBI. Also, makes you wonder why Congress wasn't fully informed, which is required by law.

MontClaire
07-09-2011, 10:52 AM
So if higher in our government they break laws and rules.....should the rest of us still be law obiding? :cool:

blazeaglory
07-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Wow! GunRunner really backfired didnt it?

I heard during the testimony by a member of the ATF that the tracking devices that they installed in the pistol grips malfunctioned. When asked by the committee how they malfunctioned, the response was, "the batteries went dead"...Lol

Really? They couldn't even use energizer?

thenodnarb
07-09-2011, 11:13 AM
There's a lot of pessimism flying around but I think Obummer might go down for this one. This video is pretty damning and undeniable. If not impeachment, then at least he won't be re-elected.

I wonder, If he WAS impeached and found guilty of treason, would they hang him? Serious question. :eek:

Mute
07-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Wow! GunRunner really backfired didnt it?

I heard during the testimony by a member of the ATF that the tracking devices that they installed in the pistol grips malfunctioned. When asked by the committee how they malfunctioned, the response was, "the batteries went dead"...Lol

Really? They couldn't even use energizer?

This happened because there were no plans to track at all. One of the agents who didn't really agree with the planned tried to jury-rig a GPS with parts from Radio Shack. He was no McGyver. Don't blame the agent though. This was upper level idiocy taken to the extreme.

6172crew
07-09-2011, 11:24 AM
This happened because there were no plans to track at all. One of the agents who didn't really agree with the planned tried to jury-rig a GPS with parts from Radio Shack. He was no McGyver. Don't blame the agent though. This was upper level idiocy taken to the extreme.

Im hoping they pin the whole thing on the folks up top. The DOJ and ATF upper management need to go. The ATF should be there to issue FFLs and Tax Stamps.

w55
07-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Forward this to the local press...they actually do pick up stuff you send them...ie talk radio shows, local news.

johnthomas
07-09-2011, 11:48 AM
Our Government...............They represent us, the American people? I think not.

mrmichael
07-09-2011, 11:53 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but operation Gunrunner != operation Fast and Furious (aka Gunwalker).

mrdd
07-09-2011, 12:02 PM
It seems that a lot of the current problems with the ATF began when it was transferred to the Justice Department post 9/11. It really belongs in the Treasury Department, alongside the IRS. After all, both agencies administer a bunch of arcane laws, and perform accounting functions. The IRS accounts for the income of individuals and corporations and collects taxes, the ATF accounts for the activities of the FFLs and collects taxes.

The Justice Department should only control those agencies needed to investigate violations of Federal law and prosecute.

Connor P Price
07-09-2011, 12:07 PM
It seems that a lot of the current problems with the ATF began when it was transferred to the Justice Department post 9/11. It really belongs in the Treasury Department, alongside the IRS. After all, both agencies administer a bunch of arcane laws, and perform accounting functions. The IRS accounts for the income of individuals and corporations and collects taxes, the ATF accounts for the activities of the FFLs and collects taxes.

The Justice Department should only control those agencies needed to investigate violations of Federal law and prosecute.

Amen.

Scarecrow Repair
07-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but operation Gunrunner != operation Fast and Furious (aka Gunwalker).

You are right. The OP is only related indirectly. Gunrunner was a more or less honest attempt at catching strawman sales, IIRC. Gunwalker was stupidity run amuck, and almost certainly was known and encouraged by AG Holder. It's debatable whether Obama knew about it in advance, but I'm certain he's been fully briefed since, and no doubt has a finger in the coverup and stall since.

otalps
07-09-2011, 12:22 PM
This just keeps getting better. Using 10 million in recovery money?? I could have created a boatload more jobs that they did using it like that. Jeepers!

Those were the shovel ready jobs that obama spoke of.

blazeaglory
07-09-2011, 12:53 PM
This happened because there were no plans to track at all. One of the agents who didn't really agree with the planned tried to jury-rig a GPS with parts from Radio Shack. He was no McGyver. Don't blame the agent though. This was upper level idiocy taken to the extreme.

I understand. I just thought it was funny that the batteries expired

Mute
07-09-2011, 12:56 PM
Those devices chew up a lot of battery power if it's constantly active.

Uxi
07-09-2011, 1:02 PM
Impeachment sounds about right if they can pin it on him. I'd expect Holder to take the fall first, though

GOEX FFF
07-09-2011, 2:38 PM
Originally Posted by mrmichael
Correct me if I am wrong but operation Gunrunner != operation Fast and Furious (aka Gunwalker).


You are right. The OP is only related indirectly. Gunrunner was a more or less honest attempt at catching strawman sales, IIRC. Gunwalker was stupidity run amuck, and almost certainly was known and encouraged by AG Holder. It's debatable whether Obama knew about it in advance, but I'm certain he's been fully briefed since, and no doubt has a finger in the coverup and stall since.


Right...

"Gunrunner" was an e-trace project only, starting back in 05'. Never did it under any conditions "allow" guns to walk. With the "Gunrunner" platform already put in place, it was set to be abused and transformed by the new OB admin. This video (during the early months of the OB admin.) shows the beginning steps that were taken, including using stimulus money to what would unfold into creating the spawned mutation of Gun"runner" known today as Fast & Furious; aka Gun"walker".

This video ^^^^ here that's posted is from March 24. 09'.
With what we know now, which this has transpired in to...Backdoor "under the radar" gun-control, was already well being planned out, 64 days after OB took office of Jan 20. 09'.

Here's the whole video -

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/MexicoBor&start=800

It's telling that with this now exposed with what we know, watching this whole video that mentions Obama Holder et al. knew all about this from the get go, its eazy to read between the lines.

But now, "some how" they didn't know about it....... :rolleyes:

As Alice peered down the rabbit hole she thought to herself: "My, that does go on FOREVER doesn't it?"

sfbadger
07-09-2011, 4:35 PM
It will end with Holder &/or Napolitano resigning. Maybe heads of BATFE, DEA & FBI. There will be no convictions, because the media will keep it focused solely on the BATFE - never mentioning or shifting the focus frm the US Attorney's Office, IRS, DHS, DEA & FBI. No multijurisdictional task force or operation of this size or scope could ever come into play w/o the approval of the DOJ, DHS or at the very minimum Director Level of FBI. Also, makes you wonder why Congress wasn't fully informed, which is required by law.

+1. If history is correct, AG Holder (I prey), will fall on the sword to protect the POTUS and the POTUS will then issue an Executive Pardon to that lackey. Every President, in the past 45 years at least, has done it. Bush did it with Scooter and Obama will do it with ???.

anthonyca
07-09-2011, 4:45 PM
This just keeps getting better. Using 10 million in recovery money?? I could have created a boatload more jobs that they did using it like that. Jeepers!

I was thinking the same thing. We need to stop letting these people spend money.

hill billy
07-09-2011, 7:33 PM
+1. If history is correct, AG Holder (I prey), will fall on the sword to protect the POTUS and the POTUS will then issue an Executive Pardon to that lackey. Every President, in the past 45 years at least, has done it. Bush did it with Scooter and Obama will do it with ???.

I believe you are right. It's a shame. :(

Can't we just get one appointee who doesn't want to see his life go up in flames to point his finger directly at the WH?

Foulball
07-09-2011, 7:45 PM
Bush never pardoned Libby. He did commute his sentence, which is very different. That's why Bush & Chaney barely spoke to each other the last year of Bushs' presidency.

tankarian
07-09-2011, 8:11 PM
+1. If history is correct, AG Holder (I prey), will fall on the sword to protect the POTUS and the POTUS will then issue an Executive Pardon to that lackey. Every President, in the past 45 years at least, has done it. Bush did it with Scooter and Obama will do it with ???.

Scooter was convicted of a crime he never committed; as it turned out, he wasn't responsible for outing Valery Plame so it was only normal Bush gave him a get out of jail card.
Obama and Holder on the other hand...it's gonna look like the Godfather is issuing a pardon to one of his lieutenants for a hit job he ordered himself.

rjh4758
07-09-2011, 8:35 PM
There's a lot of pessimism flying around but I think Obummer might go down for this one. This video is pretty damning and undeniable. If not impeachment, then at least he won't be re-elected.

I wonder, If he WAS impeached and found guilty of treason, would they hang him? Serious question. :eek:

Most likely would be pardoned and will get to write a book about it and profit from it.

I think once the impeachment is done they get extradited to Mexico where I know the punishment will be done.

+1. If history is correct, AG Holder (I prey), will fall on the sword to protect the POTUS and the POTUS will then issue an Executive Pardon to that lackey. Every President, in the past 45 years at least, has done it. Bush did it with Scooter and Obama will do it with ???.


And Biden will pardon Obama. Can we get lucky enough for it to at lest get to that point?

CessnaDriver
07-09-2011, 8:50 PM
The big O knew about this and should be impeached because of it. And good Lord am I sick of hearing the term "illegal weapons in the United States." This term is the new "green," the old most abused word in the American English language.

The more we learn the more enraged I become.

Ripon83
07-09-2011, 10:16 PM
So let me see if I have this right:

Govt A: Facilitates weapons in the thousands to criminals, drug cartels, and the like and we get some reports in the media, but not much?

Govt B: Facilitated the transfer of weapons from one country ( Iran) to organized guerilla combatants opposing a dictoral communist state from which we also got some hostages released from a third country ( Lebanon), and that was the topic of the MSM for 2 years?

sfbadger
07-09-2011, 10:23 PM
Bush never pardoned Libby. He did commute his sentence, which is very different. That's why Bush & Chaney barely spoke to each other the last year of Bushs' presidency.

Do you mean that Cheney was upset that Bush did not issue a pardon to the Scooter? I'm not sure I understand the difference.

otalps
07-09-2011, 11:13 PM
+1. If history is correct, AG Holder (I prey), will fall on the sword to protect the POTUS and the POTUS will then issue an Executive Pardon to that lackey. Every President, in the past 45 years at least, has done it. Bush did it with Scooter and Obama will do it with ???.

Why do you "prey" that Holder will fall on the sword to protect obummer? If potus is involved he should get away with it?

sfbadger
07-09-2011, 11:48 PM
Why do you "prey" that Holder will fall on the sword to protect obummer? If potus is involved he should get away with it?

No, I meant that more than anyone, I pray that Holder goes down. I can't believe that I actually have to explain this. Read my post again, I stated, "If HISTORY is correct", in other words, I think this is what will happen and I hope at the very least Holder goes down, get it?

oni.dori
07-09-2011, 11:51 PM
The big O knew about this and should be impeached because of it. And good Lord am I sick of hearing the term "illegal weapons in the United States." This term is the new "green," the old most abused word in the American English language.

I hope his impeachment is a trial for treason, on the highest of levels even. I think BHO is potentially in the worst legal trouble of any other president in history (even Nixon). Could you imagine that? The president that started out as the nations "hope" for "change", being known for the same old vile corruption as always, and even more of a pariah than Nixon himself. That would probably teach the populace not to buy in to shallow, vapid hype again.

otalps
07-10-2011, 12:11 AM
No, I meant that more than anyone, I pray that Holder goes down. I can't believe that I actually have to explain this. Read my post again, I stated, "If HISTORY is correct", in other words, I think this is what will happen and I hope at the very least Holder goes down, get it?

I think the first post I quoted was a bit unclear but I'm in agreement with you for the most part. I hope at least Holder goes down, though, I don't want to see a pardon and I hope the boss goes down with him.

Dutch3
07-10-2011, 5:02 AM
Those responsible must be held accountable, whoever they are. I think this could be a very important wakeup call to the entire nation, provided justice is served and the whole deal doesn't get swept under the rug.

Does anyone else think there are paper shredders running in high gear this weekend in DC?

vantec08
07-10-2011, 6:29 AM
I think Project Gunrunner was actually started back in 2005.

The practice of allowing, or even encouraging, illegal cross border transfers of firearms started in early 2009.

Yes. . . . it started as a pilot project in Laredo TX in 2005, expanded as a national initiative in 2006 and was basically an extension of eTrace to mexcio and beyond. As is usually the case, the bean counting bureaucrats couldnt leave what works well enough alone.

ccmc
07-11-2011, 5:51 AM
Scooter was convicted of a crime he never committed; as it turned out, he wasn't responsible for outing Valery Plame so it was only normal Bush gave him a get out of jail card.
Obama and Holder on the other hand...it's gonna look like the Godfather is issuing a pardon to one of his lieutenants for a hit job he ordered himself.

That's a good point. IIRC correctly it was Richard Armitage that was Novak's source for outing Plame, not Libby. Libby was convicted for lying to a grand jury, but I don't think Armitage was ever charged for the actual outing. The whole episode was a good example of MSM mis- and disinformation (sort of like they way they are reporting on Gunwalker).

Foulball
07-11-2011, 6:00 AM
Do you mean that Cheney was upset that Bush did not issue a pardon to the Scooter? I'm not sure I understand the difference.

The difference is a pardon wipes the slate clean, no conviction, no sentence, no record, like it never happened. While commuting a sentence only keeps the person out of jail. Libby still has the conviction and record. Also, Libby still had to pay a $250,000 fine and got probation (2 years I think). Chaney was/is really pissed off at Bush for not granting a pardon to Scooter. Understandable since that was his Chief of Staff. If you check out past Presidential pardons, Bush's are pretty interesting with regards to who he did and didn't pardon.

:)

Foulball
07-11-2011, 6:07 AM
IIRC correctly it was Richard Armitage that was Novak's source for outing Plame, not Libby. Libby was convicted for lying to a grand jury, but I don't think Armitage was ever charged for the actual outing. The whole episode was a good example of MSM mis- and disinformation (sort of like they way they are reporting on Gunwalker).

Correct! Armitage was the source.

Except that Libby was convicted of giving false statements to the FBI, obstruction of justice and perjuring himself. Not quite as simple as just lying to a Grand Jury.

:)

ccmc
07-11-2011, 6:14 AM
Correct! Armitage was the source.

Except that Libby was convicted of giving false statements to the FBI, obstruction of justice and perjuring himself. Not quite as simple as just lying to a Grand Jury.

:)

Yeah, I oversimplified. The point is nobody was ever convicted of the underlying crime, and the MSM made Libby the fall guy for that through a campaign of disingenuous and/or selective reporting which is exactly what we are seeing with OG.

Foulball
07-11-2011, 6:17 AM
Yeah, I oversimplified. The point is nobody was ever convicted of the underlying crime, and the MSM made Libby the fall guy for that through a campaign of disingenuous and/or selective reporting which is exactly what we are seeing with OG.

We're all good ccmc. I agree 100%. I'm sure that we will start seeing a number of articles distancing the WH from this as much as possible and a lower player taking the fall.

Trailboss60
07-11-2011, 6:42 AM
Im hoping they pin the whole thing on the folks up top. The DOJ and ATF upper management need to go. The ATF should be there to issue FFLs and Tax Stamps.

The ATF outlived it's usefulness a long time ago, at the very least a major reorganization should take effect, dissolving the agency would be preferable to me. When you have a government where the lead law enforcement officer (arguably is Obama, but let's go with Holder), knowingly transfers guns to organized crime, allowing them to flow unrestricted into another country, and knows that they will undoubtedly kill foreign nationals, and probably come back to be used against Americans...
The primary role of the federal government is to provide protection for it's citizens, against enemies both foreign and domestic, at the very foundational level, we have a massive failure of the oath they swore to uphold, as they knowingly and willfully violated that most foundational oath, the decent thing to do would be to step down in disgrace.

The only problem is that we do not have a decent AG or POTUS.
As a moderator in another thread cautioned us to respect the office of the POTUS, I can and still do, but as a man...Obama repulses me.