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View Full Version : cartel boss says: "We buy our guns from the US"


donw
07-08-2011, 5:50 PM
it's an article in MSN.com

but...the article goes on to say that most of the heavy weaponry comes from other Latin American nations.

Blackhawk556
07-08-2011, 5:58 PM
You know the brady bunch is loving this

Colt-45
07-08-2011, 6:08 PM
"we buy our guns from US" with the facilitation of project gunrunner I might add.

Why does the article not mention this? Because it's not convenient. Glad they added Central American corrupt armies to the article though.

Burbur
07-08-2011, 6:12 PM
Why would he give up his main source? So it could be shut down? Hell no.

This man is smart to make this statement now, it will deflect attention from his illegal operations and it will land squarely on the shoulders of law abiding Americans...

Also, link?

hornswaggled
07-08-2011, 6:13 PM
Damn right they do, we have all the best stuff. Buy American!:66:

Joe
07-08-2011, 6:14 PM
What he means is, "We're given our guns by the ATF"

tiki
07-08-2011, 6:58 PM
He probably cut some deal and said that as part of the deal.

Sonic_mike
07-08-2011, 6:59 PM
I think he was trying to say us, like as in our own people the mexican military?

guns4life
07-08-2011, 7:04 PM
Of course he does, our government supplies their ****ty military with plenty of firearms...he in turn takes possession of them when the mexcian soldiers defect.

RRangel
07-08-2011, 7:10 PM
According to actual trace data. Most of the crime guns in Mexico originated from the Mexican government. A criminal in Mexico can say whatever he wants with no proof to back it up.

WeRmany
07-08-2011, 7:11 PM
It might just be that "Atlas Shrugged" is my current airplane book, but I'm wondering how "we smuggle people and drugs north, weapons and money south" becomes a condemnation of the US?

Skip the numbers debate, wth aren't we at war with these people? We've fought 2 wars in the middle east to smoke 1 guy for killing 3K americans.

This is so far beyond that and has been going on for so long it defies belief.

And we're currently the bad guys for executing someone for raping and murdering a teen ager? One of their own teen agers? You arrest an illegal alien and we need to call the Mexican consulate? They'd need a phone bank in India to handle those calls.

oni.dori
07-08-2011, 7:12 PM
"we buy our guns from US" with the facilitation of project gunrunner I might add.

Why does the article not mention this? Because it's not convenient. Glad they added Central American corrupt armies to the article though.

Weren't most of the current "military" grade firearms in SA obtained during the "contras" in the 80's, from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, no less?

Either that, or I wonder how much the .gov paid them to say that...
(I know, I know...:TFH:)

warbird
07-08-2011, 7:12 PM
What I love is how the honest average gun owning citizen is blamed for what our government does (AFF), corrupt FFL gun dealers sell, and people within the gun manufacturing industry might do out the back door if the AFT is looking the other way. Are they being thrown in jail? No, our right to own firearms just get restricted more and more. It is like the guy across the street watching a bank robbery while having coffee at a coffee shop being arrested and jailed for being an accessory just because he saw the crime. Take guns away from the average citizen and let the corrupt continue business as usual. Maybe this guy is hoping to ramp up the anti gunners in hopes we will become as defenseless as the average Mexican citizen and it will be easier to take over our neighborhoods. Right now with the CCW surge in California we need to capitolize on it and force the issuance of as many as possible whether you intend to carry or not. And we should force our law enforcement and legislature to work with other states to expand recipical agreements.

RRangel
07-08-2011, 7:54 PM
What I love is how the honest average gun owning citizen is blamed for what our government does (AFF), corrupt FFL gun dealers sell, and people within the gun manufacturing industry might do out the back door if the AFT is looking the other way. Are they being thrown in jail? No, our right to own firearms just get restricted more and more. It is like the guy across the street watching a bank robbery while having coffee at a coffee shop being arrested and jailed for being an accessory just because he saw the crime. Take guns away from the average citizen and let the corrupt continue business as usual. Maybe this guy is hoping to ramp up the anti gunners in hopes we will become as defenseless as the average Mexican citizen and it will be easier to take over our neighborhoods. Right now with the CCW surge in California we need to capitolize on it and force the issuance of as many as possible whether you intend to carry or not. And we should force our law enforcement and legislature to work with other states to expand recipical agreements.

It's not the "corrupt gun dealers" in this case. Can you explain "looking the other way"? That would be too kind. The dealers in question were told to make the sales by BATFE to known straw buyers. In the BATFE's case, it's actually more like willfully allowing straw buyers free reign, with dire consequences. From the point of sale, all the way to allowing the arms to "walk." Conducting Operation Fast and Furious was felonious on multiple levels.

It's not because "there is easy access," but actually because those who conducted the operation circumvented laws that are in place to prevent those very acts.

Colt-45
07-08-2011, 8:45 PM
Weren't most of the current "military" grade firearms in SA obtained during the "contras" in the 80's, from the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, no less?

Either that, or I wonder how much the .gov paid them to say that...
(I know, I know...:TFH:)

Yup, wars end and the weapons don't magically disappear. I'm sure however, some of those Central American countries have modern stuff as well.

He probably cut some deal and said that as part of the deal.

That's the first thing I though as well. Also to direct attention else where. It suddenly becomes more important the fact that these men allegedly purchased these weapons in American and they forget the fact that this man killed and ordered the killings of thousands. The guns suddenly become more important because according to their logic having a rifle in your hands make you want to kill and behead human beings automatically.

Casey
07-08-2011, 8:51 PM
So msn is quoting a "cartel boss" as a credible source?
brilliant

Scott Connors
07-08-2011, 9:53 PM
What do you expect from people who think Al Qaeda PR hacks are authorities on the NFA?

BC9696
07-08-2011, 9:55 PM
It's a shame that our Commander in Chief and his administration lack the stones to deal with the border problem effectively. By effectively I mean placing more resources on the border and not trying to drag the State of Arizona into a United Nations litigation. States have the right to defend themselves against armed invasion and that's what this is. I'd volunteer to serve if a border state were to reinstate the State Militia to close down the porous border. Sign me up! I have my own camo, rifles and ammo.

Digital_Boy
07-08-2011, 10:00 PM
Read it. The writer explicitly states that he's skeptical of Rejon's claims. My perceptions were that the article was neutral and very even handed for the most part. It did mention the GunRunner tie-in and the ubiquity of corruption in the Mexican and Central American military as a much bigger source of arms and munitions for the cartels.

BigDogatPlay
07-08-2011, 10:04 PM
Did the MSN article happen to have a White House or State Department by-line?

:rolleyes:

I appreciate that the author is skeptical (he should be considering the attributed statements) but, if he is that skeptical, why did he run with the story at all?

Why further the lie?

oni.dori
07-09-2011, 12:55 AM
Yup, wars end and the weapons don't magically disappear. I'm sure however, some of those Central American countries have modern stuff as well.

Well yes, I am sure that they did get modern stuff. There is a thriving black market, and when a criminal wants a weapon/firearm, there is ALWAYS a way for them to get what they want. Also, see my reply below to add to this.

Read it. The writer explicitly states that he's skeptical of Rejon's claims. My perceptions were that the article was neutral and very even handed for the most part. It did mention the GunRunner tie-in and the ubiquity of corruption in the Mexican and Central American military as a much bigger source of arms and munitions for the cartels.

It is a pretty well documented fact that corrupt entities in both the Mexican military and police forces are a major supplier to the cartels; and where do they get their weapons you ask? From none other than our dear fed American fed.gov. The same goes with pretty much the rest of Southern/Central America as well. And, since the Contras and the drug wars of the 70's & 80's, it has been very well known that there has been quite the supply of weapons available, and a thriving black market down in Central/South America. Do illegally obtained weapons play some sort of a part in this whole sordid tale? Yes, but an utterly miniscule one at best.

Dutch3
07-09-2011, 3:52 AM
It's a shame that our Commander in Chief and his administration lack the stones to deal with the border problem effectively.

Absolutely. The border could be effectively sealed within 24 hours if the order was given.

Yet we have 350,000 military personnel deployed all over the world defending other countries' borders. It is shameful and disgusting.

jl123
07-09-2011, 3:56 AM
It might just be that "Atlas Shrugged" is my current airplane book, but I'm wondering how "we smuggle people and drugs north, weapons and money south" becomes a condemnation of the US?

Skip the numbers debate, wth aren't we at war with these people? We've fought 2 wars in the middle east to smoke 1 guy for killing 3K americans.

This is so far beyond that and has been going on for so long it defies belief.

And we're currently the bad guys for executing someone for raping and murdering a teen ager? One of their own teen agers? You arrest an illegal alien and we need to call the Mexican consulate? They'd need a phone bank in India to handle those calls.

Atlas shrugged? So you think the message that Rand had in mind is the government should get involved in the marketplace?

You don't destroy markets for goods by going to war. You'll just make the goods more valuable and more people willing to break the law rich.

Murder is wrong.....even when it is done by the state.

oni.dori
07-09-2011, 4:09 AM
Skip the numbers debate, wth aren't we at war with these people? We've fought 2 wars in the middle east to smoke 1 guy for killing 3K americans.

This is so far beyond that and has been going on for so long it defies belief.

That's because neither one of those countries were our political "allies", and there was no PR or posturing to gain from feigning a sympathetic ear to theri "cause". In all honesty, our biggest challeng IF we did ever go to war would BE the cartels, because they ARE the most well equipped/trained out of the Mexican people, and they would fight the HARDEST, because they have the MOST to loose. I foresee it as being something akin to the problems we are having now in the Middle East with the insurgents. They would just blend in with the rest of the civillian population, and pull cowardly hit and run and terror/fear tactics, like the terrorist in the Middle East do (and they currently do now to terrorize their local populations/police). Although, it wouldn't be AS hard as in the ME, because they kind of stick out from the rest of the squaller that surrounds them, what with their shiny, expensive cars and clothes, and gaudy pistols/rifles they idolize as status symbols. Also, the civillians would jump at ANY chance to narc them out and get rid of the misery they cause in their communities. I cant blame them, either. The Mexican military/police would fold a-la the Iraqi military in Desert Storm. They aren't paid enough, and don't have anything to gain from fighting really. They don't give two sh*ts sideways about their country.

donw
07-09-2011, 6:52 AM
Read it. The writer explicitly states that he's skeptical of Rejon's claims. My perceptions were that the article was neutral and very even handed for the most part. It did mention the GunRunner tie-in and the ubiquity of corruption in the Mexican and Central American military as a much bigger source of arms and munitions for the cartels.

that sounds correct.

in fact, i think, the author of the article might have been, actually, trying to point out the hypocrisy of the current administration and shed more light on what's going on insofar as the average law-abiding gun owner taking the rap for the supply of arms that find their way into cartel hands.

we all know and realize there is "More than meets they eye." going on with the current occupant of the white house and his administration; we have to stay awake.

i will not be surprised to see what may happen as related to gun owning rights in the near future: i suspect there will be a push by congress to ban ALL semi-autos with detachable magazines, period, and limit semi-autos with affixed mags to 10 (or less, rounds)

if the current occupant of the white house is re-elected...woe be unto us...

cineski
07-09-2011, 7:06 AM
Link to article?

HowardW56
07-09-2011, 8:11 AM
He probably cut some deal and said that as part of the deal.

:iagree:

Chosen_1
07-09-2011, 9:33 AM
It would be convenient that the Mexican government got him to "admit" that. It's a win-win for both the drug lord and the Mexican government. The drug lord will probably get an easier prison sentence for his "admission", while the Mexican government can gloat at American gun owners and say, "We told you so." It's a perfect cover-up for how the cartels actually get most of their ARs: deserting Mexican soldiers.

BC9696
07-10-2011, 11:37 AM
Two final thoughts.

1. Not only are we certain that semi auto weapons are being transferred to mexican drug cartels from America but the big news now is whose head in Washington will roll for it.

2. Illegal alients kill 12 Americans IN AMERICA every single day so we are losing more U.S. citizens in the war on drugs than we are the war on terror.

Personally I don't see the difference since the terror organizations deal primarily in drugs to fund their operations.I would treat both wars the same.

ElvenSoul
07-10-2011, 11:45 AM
Mexico has been trying to disarm Americans since the Alamo!

proclone1
07-10-2011, 11:45 AM
It might just be that "Atlas Shrugged" is my current airplane book, but I'm wondering how "we smuggle people and drugs north, weapons and money south" becomes a condemnation of the US?

Skip the numbers debate, wth aren't we at war with these people? We've fought 2 wars in the middle east to smoke 1 guy for killing 3K americans.

This is so far beyond that and has been going on for so long it defies belief.

And we're currently the bad guys for executing someone for raping and murdering a teen ager? One of their own teen agers? You arrest an illegal alien and we need to call the Mexican consulate? They'd need a phone bank in India to handle those calls.

Pretty sad huh. It's hard to think of a country that had more resources and geographic opportunity, and squandered it so damned hard. They're an absolute joke, and it makes our country look so bad for being taken such rife advantage of. Vote liberal, vote for mexico.

HowardW56
07-10-2011, 12:04 PM
I believe every word....

That and they pay taxes, import that "products" using licensed customs brokers, and wouldn't hurt a fly...

Mute
07-10-2011, 6:40 PM
Yes it's true, because a cartel boss is the MOST reliable source.:rolleyes:

smallshot13
07-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Of course a Cartel boss would say this (have not read the article). Think of the free reign they would have in this country if Americans were dissarmed. US law enforcement agencies are hog tied with internal regulatory bans on enforcing current laws on the books, but those pesky American citizens still have guns, and the cartels don't know who keeps or bears. Very frustrating for them.

oldguy870
07-11-2011, 6:32 AM
This thing is even bigger than most realize. The FBI, DEA, and Border Patrol were involved too. It spanned multiple agencies.

Obama was directly involved.

P.S. Conspiracies are not new. The Gulf of Tonkin incidents never happened. Pearl Harbor was not a surprise. Conspiracies are how things get done.

Trailboss60
07-11-2011, 7:06 AM
I appreciate that the author is skeptical (he should be considering the attributed statements) but, if he is that skeptical, why did he run with the story at all?

Why further the lie?

A short story...
Once upon a time, long, long, ago reporters vetted their sources and checked facts. Then they realized that by actually reporting the facts, it was harder to sway public opinion by being honest, so they ended that practice.

The end.

donw
07-11-2011, 8:06 AM
Absolutely. The border could be effectively sealed within 24 hours if the order was given.

Yet we have 350,000 military personnel deployed all over the world defending other countries' borders. It is shameful and disgusting.

PART of the problem is that the US government has forgotten/neglects the fact part of it's function IS to PROTECT OUR BORDERS. they're too busy expanding to areas in our daily lives now trying to control all we do and say to actually do what they were formed to do.*
-------------------------------------------

NOTE:

the moderators may find this (*) disturbing, or inappropriate and delete this post and i can't say as i would blame them or object to it, but i personally found the commercial very offensive and stunning. the commercial blatantly omitted other diverse groups in our culture.
--------------------------------------------

*two days ago, i saw a commercial on the national geographic channel that to me, was alarming: it began with a black man saying: "It's NOT OK to call me N****R" and went to five other minorities, Chinese, Hispanic, Homosexual, Jewish, and mentally/emotionally challenged (one at a time) using other derogatory names for those groups.

what's alarming to me is the fact it deleted having an Irish, German, Ukrainian, Korean, Italian, Polish, English, French etc., persons saying: "It's NOT OK to call me wxxxxx, h*****, c^^^^^^", or whatever.

berto
07-11-2011, 8:50 AM
Sure. Keep the focus elsewhere so the flow of arms from corrupt gov/mil officials can continue unchecked.

Wherryj
07-11-2011, 9:07 AM
According to actual trace data. Most of the crime guns in Mexico originated from the Mexican government. A criminal in Mexico can say whatever he wants with no proof to back it up.

In a related story, an astounding 100% of currently incarcerated felons state that they are innocent. News at 10.

FatalKitty
07-11-2011, 9:21 AM
ATF: putting the "gun" in "gunrunner" since 2009

curtisfong
07-11-2011, 10:36 AM
A short story...
Once upon a time, long, long, ago reporters vetted their sources and checked facts. Then they realized that by actually reporting the facts, it was harder to sell advertising time. Not to mention cost money and resources that increased their overhead.

The end.

Fixed it for you.