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swilson
07-06-2011, 6:44 PM
Is it legal to buy high-cap magazines out of state, disassemble them while still out of state, and bring them back into CA as rebuild kits?

intheknow
07-06-2011, 6:46 PM
....

Shiboleth
07-06-2011, 6:48 PM
Yes, but they must remain as rebuild kits once in state, or used to repair existing magazines. Any reassembly of an imported rebuild kit triggers the same law as importing a functional magazine.

aermotor
07-06-2011, 10:37 PM
Legal.

Quiet
07-06-2011, 10:47 PM
Is it legal to buy high-cap magazines out of state, disassemble them while still out of state, and bring them back into CA as rebuild kits?

Yes, it's legal to bring back the magazine parts.

You can then use the parts to make permanent 10 round magazines or you can keep them as parts and never assemble them while in CA.

If you assemble the parts into large capacity magazines while in CA, it would be a felony because you would be manufacturing large capacity magazines [PC 12020(a)(2)].

Munk
07-06-2011, 11:35 PM
Yep. Parts is parts; the only time it matters about point of origin is if you're dealing with 922(r) parts count compliance.

Other people have covered the topic of MFG and importation.

danno02
07-07-2011, 6:33 PM
Yes, but they must remain as rebuild kits once in state, or used to repair existing magazines. Any reassembly of an imported rebuild kit triggers the same law as importing a functional magazine.

Ok..sounds good. I'm an owner of a pre-ban AR and would like to upgrade (rebuild) one of my 20 or 30 rd GI MAGs with the PMAG (interchangeable parts). So if I'm using all my GI MAG parts in a new PMAG shell, I should be good...right? Lets say I'm shooting in my favorite spot in the foot hills, and some LOE with a little assault rifle law smarts asks me to prove that 'new looking PMAG' was rebuilt from 1990 GI MAG interior parts?

DisgruntledReaper
07-07-2011, 6:58 PM
I would think you are safer using newly made but original pattern magazine parts than try to rebuild a GI mag into a 30rd Magpul...... the issue is that the preban mag pieces-or most mag pieces aside from the body(1994-2004AWB) would have dates.... They wpould still haul your asterisk in...

PERSONALLY... I would get some of the new stainless(black finished) mags with the new orange/tan/whatever color followers and use them as parts for a refurb...

that is my 2 cents but valid point... really want to be hassled over a flashy new plastic mag body??

danno02
07-07-2011, 7:11 PM
Thanks DisgruntledReaper for your 2 cents, no I don't want trouble over that new flashy mag, but they do look good. This was my plan, but really didn't know about that new looking MAG. Perhaps I'll just buy a few CA legal 10 rd PMAGS for the looks. I've already run into a Forest LOE's with my rifle who didn't have a clear understanding of AWB laws, I certainly don't need to draw any extra attention. Thanks!!

Turo
07-07-2011, 7:20 PM
Quite a bit of FUD going on in this thread...

danno02, read up on this: CGN Large-Capacity Magazine Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions)

There is no law saying you can't have a 30 round PMAG. It is perfectly legal to rebuild a USGI magazine using PMAG parts (yes, you can replace all of the parts, and no you don't have to keep the old parts for "proof")

Also, if a police officer gives you trouble for Large-Capacity magazines, just tell him they are legal and don't say anything else. The state has to prove that you did something that violated the large-capacity magazine law, and rebuilding legally-owned large-capacity magazines with new parts does not violate any laws.

@DisgruntledReaper: Date stamps on magazine parts mean absolutely nothing legally post AW Ban sunset. You can rebuild a large-capacity magazine with stamped and dated 2001 manufactured "law enforcement only" magazines and no law is broken.

Sniper3142
07-07-2011, 8:26 PM
Quite a bit of FUD going on in this thread...

danno02, read up on this: CGN Large-Capacity Magazine Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions)

There is no law saying you can't have a 30 round PMAG. It is perfectly legal to rebuild a USGI magazine using PMAG parts (yes, you can replace all of the parts, and no you don't have to keep the old parts for "proof")

Also, if a police officer gives you trouble for Large-Capacity magazines, just tell him they are legal and don't say anything else. The state has to prove that you did something that violated the large-capacity magazine law, and rebuilding legally-owned large-capacity magazines with new parts does not violate any laws.

@DisgruntledReaper: Date stamps on magazine parts mean absolutely nothing legally post AW Ban sunset. You can rebuild a large-capacity magazine with stamped and dated 2001 manufactured "law enforcement only" magazines and no law is broken.


+1!

I've rebuilt lots of my 30 round USGI mags with all Pmag parts!!

I'm not the least bit worried about running into a ignorant LEO. I'll be happy to educate him or her :D

In fact, I'll have a couple with me at the Calguns shoot & meet at On Target in Laguna Niguel tomorrow. ;)

danno02
07-07-2011, 8:57 PM
That's what I thought I had read in the past. So really there is nothing to worry about. I think I'll keep that information handy regardless, perhaps along side my letter of registration confirmation from Bill Lockyer. FUD was a new one I hadn't heard before...I looked that up: fear, uncertainty and doubt...looks like it fits the thread. It too bad we have to continually research laws to assure we are all in compliance (FUD).

danno02
07-07-2011, 9:05 PM
+1!

I've rebuilt lots of my 30 round USGI mags with all Pmag parts!!

I'm not the least bit worried about running into a ignorant LEO. I'll be happy to educate him or her :D

In fact, I'll have a couple with me at the Calguns shoot & meet at On Target in Laguna Niguel tomorrow. ;)



Great to hear Sniper3142 - Do you have a good location to purchase (web) and are all PMAGS the same as in interchangeable with the USGI MAG? I have three or four 30 RD USGI MAGs and a few 20 RD. Would like to have a nice looking PMAG.

bruss01
07-08-2011, 7:05 AM
And if you left those mag rebuild kits out on the table overnight, and the shoemaker's elves assembled them into working large-capacity magazines, there would be legal consequences for those elves... provided their deeds come to light in less than 3 years, which is the statute of limitations for that particular offense. Naughty elves!

loather
07-08-2011, 8:51 AM
And if you left those mag rebuild kits out on the table overnight, and the shoemaker's elves assembled them into working large-capacity magazines, there would be legal consequences for those elves... provided their deeds come to light in less than 3 years, which is the statute of limitations for that particular offense. Naughty elves!

Seriously? You're suggesting this?

What part of FELONY don't you understand? Don't do this. Don't even suggest it.

danno02
07-08-2011, 9:13 AM
There is NO WAY I'm assembling a rebuild kit into a working MAG with its own parts...not worth the legal trouble. Could you imagine explaining to your family that you're in jail over a freaking gun mag, the tens of thousands in legal costs, possible loss of your job and a felony conviction..the list goes on! I would only rebuild with my existing USGI parts. As silly as HI-CAP MAG laws are, I'm not going to mess with it. I'm sticking to this: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

DisgruntledReaper
07-08-2011, 9:45 AM
Quite a bit of FUD going on in this thread...

danno02, read up on this: CGN Large-Capacity Magazine Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions)

There is no law saying you can't have a 30 round PMAG. It is perfectly legal to rebuild a USGI magazine using PMAG parts (yes, you can replace all of the parts, and no you don't have to keep the old parts for "proof")

Also, if a police officer gives you trouble for Large-Capacity magazines, just tell him they are legal and don't say anything else. The state has to prove that you did something that violated the large-capacity magazine law, and rebuilding legally-owned large-capacity magazines with new parts does not violate any laws.

@DisgruntledReaper: Date stamps on magazine parts mean absolutely nothing legally post AW Ban sunset. You can rebuild a large-capacity magazine with stamped and dated 2001 manufactured "law enforcement only" magazines and no law is broken.

I was not trying to spread FUD... like I said just my 2 cents...especially given the fact that tooo many encounters with the various agencies 'representatives' create too much drama...

Yes I KNOW you can use date stamped parts,current production new parts,etc for rebuilds or parts since the awb expired ...BUT ,again my opinion, the whole crap here about mags being 'preban' and since magpuls are a 'post 2000/post ban' design there is still a chance that an over zealous LE person to go bananas over seeing you unload 30 rds out of an obvious post ban magazine design.
Yes,you may educate them on the law but when they pull the 'I AM the LAW' and they and the DA( aka elected/POLITICAN) decides he wants to get another notch in his book, you want to deal with that hassle..?

I also realize that the state/gubbermint has to PROVE you have done anything illegal ...... maybe I just refer to have stuff that works fine but does not raise any unneeded attention.....that is why my mags all look preban/are preban depending on which rifle I am shooting.

So I think I have clarified my position and not spreading FUD...

I guess that is why I prefer my FAL's ,HK clones , Galil clones,etc and other obviously pre 2000 rifles.... no real chance of getting hassled over a new 'style' magazine......all about the 'preban camo-flagie':cool: My lone AR runs std USGI Mags or at least they LOOK standard..

Either way, may all of us manage to avoid the salivating uneducated 'agencies' representatives' out there.;)

Kodemonkey
07-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Just a reminder to those who might be reading this thread - don't put those mags into a bullet button equipped rifle.

10 rounds only in a bullet buttoned rifle. Whether or not you have legal large capacity mags, it doesn't matter.

bruss01
07-12-2011, 10:52 AM
Seriously? You're suggesting this?

What part of FELONY don't you understand? Don't do this. Don't even suggest it.

Dude, grow a couple of brain cells. "Legal consequences" is exactly what I meant in response to your undie wetting "OMG FELONY". I'm not encouraging anyone to do this, not even elves. But if anyone, elves or otherwise, did such a thing in ignorance and that was 3 years ago, don't you think it's pertinent to the thread to let those persons, elves or otherwise, know that their misdeed is now off the radar and they are safe from prosecution?

The statute of limitations for the FELONY (as you so hand-wringingly pointed out) of assembling a hi-capacity magazine is 3 years, and that's a fact. If you don't like that, don't blame me.

choprzrul
07-12-2011, 11:31 AM
Dude, grow a couple of brain cells. "Legal consequences" is exactly what I meant in response to your undie wetting "OMG FELONY". I'm not encouraging anyone to do this, not even elves. But if anyone, elves or otherwise, did such a thing in ignorance and that was 3 years ago, don't you think it's pertinent to the thread to let those persons, elves or otherwise, know that their misdeed is now off the radar and they are safe from prosecution?

The statute of limitations for the FELONY (as you so hand-wringingly pointed out) of assembling a hi-capacity magazine is 3 years, and that's a fact. If you don't like that, don't blame me.

^^AGREE^^THIS^^

CA Penal Code 801:

Except as provided in Sections 799 and 800, prosecution
for an offense punishable by imprisonment in the state prison
shall be commenced within three years after commission of the
offense.


Now, how in the devil is the state ever going to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that A) you assembled those mags, B) those mags were assembled in the last 3 years??????????

Providing that you know how to keep your trap closed.

I am in no way advocating ANY violation of ANY law, regulation, or ordinance. I am merely commenting on the difficulty in overcoming that high bar of 'reasonable doubt' to gain a conviction if you don't make any statements to the police.

.

ivanimal
07-12-2011, 11:42 AM
The question has been answered and we are not going down this road again. People always get in trouble for arguing their point, then calling people names.