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Window_Seat
07-06-2011, 2:59 PM
So I was watching the "Noon News" (DVRed), and they were discussing a "Police hosted meeting" in East Palo Alto, and other LEAs were going to show up, and apparently it's going on today.

The meeting (according to the news) is in response to a gang shooting of a 3 month old baby, and the purpose of the meeting was supposedly to enable residents in the area to have more of an awareness of gangs, particularly the nortanos, MS-13, and others that are common around that area.

Usually when and where there is a high profile violent crime, especially involving gang violence, or a series of unusually high amounts of crime, there are community meetings where LEA Admins are usually pummeled by angry residents demanding answers and solutions, with ideas on how to "take back our streets" (with fists on the podium).

No, I'm not attempting to mock these residents, but my thoughts are that those who have more solutions than what the pundits and the anti's are putting forth are NOT being heard, and I would say that the only way to get heard at these meetings is to show up.

In light of some of these city and county planning council meetings and planning commissions that we have been successful in as far as keeping them from passing ordinances on gun store restrictions, I was thinking that we might (as CGNers) attend some of these LEA hosted meetings when they are discussing the violence.

I realize that the last thing that some of the residents might want to hear about is giving people loaded guns to protect themselves, but the idea needs to start out with something that might be more compelling to these residents.

Higher Law Enforcement admins (eg. the Chiefs, Sheriffs, Under Sheriffs, etc) are always quick to point out the dangers of guns on the streets, and their idea of disarming criminals, and then their plans to destroy the firearms that they retrieve from crime scenes.

They talk of how and when they are successful at taking illegal guns off the streets". OK, fine and all, and I respect Law Enforcement for their service, but these meetings are not complete without "our side" as to the solutions.

This is why I think it might be more than productive for CGNers to attend some of these short notice meetings.

By doing so, we could potentially have success at some or all of the following:


Bringing an awareness of our cause
Why our cause is important to us
Discussing the fact that it's a RIGHT, which is law of the land per SCOTUS
Why our cause is more of a solution, opposed to disarmament and meltdown of confiscated guns
Why CCW shall issue is important to lawful citizens
Discuss the rebuttals that we commonly present to the anti's logic (eg. "Gang bangers carry concealed with no permit", if LEOs carry it, the criminals also carry it, so why not lawful citizens?, etc.)
We conduct ourselves as those who attended the Sunnyvale meeting did (I wasn't there, but I understand that all were very professional minded)
And we discuss ONLY the facts and the factual data.


We could have even greater success if we begin to put together our arguments, plan what we are going to wear, and have a plan in place to head out the door to such meetings on a moment's notice when they are announced.

And anything else that others can think up...

Just an http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/images/icons/icon3.gif.

Erik.

wash
07-06-2011, 3:11 PM
You would have to be very careful with how you do that.

Sorry to be a cynic but these types of meetings never produce any real solutions, if you actually present one, it will probably get flushed out with all the rest after the police think they have acted "concerned" enough.

1911su16b870
07-06-2011, 3:16 PM
So I was watching the "Noon News" (DVRed), and they were discussing a "Police hosted meeting" in East Palo Alto, and other LEAs were going to show up, and apparently it's going on today.

The meeting (according to the news) is in response to a gang shooting of a 3 month old baby, and the purpose of the meeting was supposedly to enable residents in the area to have more of an awareness of gangs, particularly the nortanos, MS-13, and others that are common around that area....



Go and listen to what is said at the meeting. I think everything else in your post maybe speculation and not going to happen.

M. D. Van Norman
07-06-2011, 3:30 PM
Gangs are a socio-economic problem. Their prevalence has very little to do with how well armed the general populace might be. Their membership is bred by institutionalized poverty, and their organization is encouraged by black-market opportunities.

Without solving these underlying problems, even open warfare wouldn’t end the gangs for long.

wash
07-06-2011, 3:49 PM
I agree with M.D.

If you look at EPA, it is socio-economic issues that created this tragedy.

blakdawg
07-06-2011, 3:57 PM
When I lived in Oakland I went to these meetings in my neighborhood. It was good to know what was going on, but there really wasn't anything going on that was particularly pro- or anti-gun. I realize and agree that OPD brass is anti-gun as is virtually everyone else in government in Alameda County - but these meetings weren't about guns, and if someone had popped up and said "this violence is why we should all have CCW permits" it would've been weird and not productive.

I think it's really good for pro-gun people to go to these meetings and to generally monitor "anti-crime" efforts because so many people can't distinguish between guns used for good and guns used for evil - but the meetings like this that I've been to have not been opportunities to proselytize and spread the CCW gospel.

Ford8N
07-06-2011, 4:12 PM
When I lived in Oakland I went to these meetings in my neighborhood. It was good to know what was going on, but there really wasn't anything going on that was particularly pro- or anti-gun. I realize and agree that OPD brass is anti-gun as is virtually everyone else in government in Alameda County - but these meetings weren't about guns, and if someone had popped up and said "this violence is why we should all have CCW permits" it would've been weird and not productive.

I think it's really good for pro-gun people to go to these meetings and to generally monitor "anti-crime" efforts because so many people can't distinguish between guns used for good and guns used for evil - but the meetings like this that I've been to have not been opportunities to proselytize and spread the CCW gospel.

I agree, I've been to simular meetings. They were mostly to get residents to at least pick up the phone and call the cops and not be afraid of the gangs. Apathy is rampant in high crime neighborhoods.

Paul S
07-06-2011, 9:04 PM
Gangs are a socio-economic problem. Their prevalence has very little to do with how well armed the general populace might be. Their membership is bred by institutionalized poverty, and their organization is encouraged by black-market opportunities.

Without solving these underlying problems, even open warfare wouldn’t end the gangs for long.

Interesting view...backed I'm sure by much research and difficult to dispute.

But I can tell you from personal experience and nearly 40 years in law enforcement the socio-economic causation is only part of the equation.
Many become gang bangers who are from lower middle income families. They like the rush illegality brings. And to them fear elicited at the end of a gun is respect. Unfortunately gangs will always exist. Though painful to admit there are often times when members of law enforcement are a gang with a badge.

M. D. Van Norman
07-07-2011, 8:53 AM
There will always be some bad people. However, I would prefer it if we didn’t create an environment that encourages them to organize and recruit followers from the merely marginalized. That would also certainly make your job in law enforcement easier.