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CalBear
07-06-2011, 1:02 PM
I have a decent knowledge of Arizona firearms laws, but I'd like to make sure I'm on solid footing before visiting AZ. I'll probably be in Phoenix. Here are some question I have. FYI I'm a permit holder.

- Is OC socially discouraged in Phoenix?
- How about the rest of AZ?
- Are the "no firearms" signs for restaurants / bars that serve alcohol? Or are they for any private business.
- Is a violation of one of these signs while CCWing considered criminal?

I do know campus carry is still not allowed.

Anything else to know?

radioman
07-06-2011, 1:08 PM
You can CC with out a permit, it you have to talk with LE you must tell him you are CC and let hold the gun, if he wants to. I have seen LOC there, you can find AZ gun laws on line, have fun and stay safe.

Decoligny
07-06-2011, 1:27 PM
I have a decent knowledge of Arizona firearms laws, but I'd like to make sure I'm on solid footing before visiting AZ. I'll probably be in Phoenix. Here are some question I have. FYI I'm a permit holder.

- Is OC socially discouraged in Phoenix?
- How about the rest of AZ?
- Are the "no firearms" signs for restaurants / bars that serve alcohol? Or are they for any private business.
- Is a violation of one of these signs while CCWing considered criminal?

I do know campus carry is still not allowed.

Anything else to know?


- Is OC socially discouraged in Phoenix?
OC is generally accepted in all of AZ. Loaded Open Carry is perfectly legal throughout the state.

- How about the rest of AZ?
See above.

- Are the "no firearms" signs for restaurants / bars that serve alcohol? Or are they for any private business.
I believe they are for alcohol serving establishements. Private businesses that don't serve alcohol are also using them, but I don't think they carry the weight of law.

- Is a violation of one of these signs while CCWing considered criminal? If you don't have a CCW and carry into an alcohol serving establishment that is posted as required by law, it is illegal and carries consequences. If I am reading the Arizona Code correctly, it is considered "Misconduct with a firearm" and is a Class 2 of a Class 3 felony. http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=13/03102.htm

Riodog
07-06-2011, 1:27 PM
LOC is more common in the 'outback'. While AZ doesn't have the retarded mindset of CA it's still not a common occurance in downtown Phoenix and may raise an eyebrow or two.

For the life of me, please explain the novelty of LOC unless one is just an attention whore? In a place where it's legal to cc just keep it covered. Why would one want to draw attention to oneself?
Rio

CalBear
07-06-2011, 1:40 PM
LOC is more common in the 'outback'. While AZ doesn't have the retarded mindset of CA it's still not a common occurance in downtown Phoenix and may raise an eyebrow or two.

For the life of me, please explain the novelty of LOC unless one is just an attention whore? In a place where it's legal to cc just keep it covered. Why would one want to draw attention to oneself?
Rio
For the record, I prefer CCW as my method of carry. That said, I can see why people like LOC. I wouldn't do it for the attention it draws, in fact that's a negative for me, but it is very comfortable.

It's quite hot in Phoenix this time of year, and I'll probably want to wear summer clothes. Practically, that means wearing shirts that probably won't always do the best job concealed. The good thing is, I don't have to worry about accidental exposures, because LOC is legal anyway.

Ding126
07-06-2011, 1:49 PM
Being from AZ I would say that open carry is accepted. I wouldn't see it often but I have a time or two.

If you do NOT have a AZ CCW then you can not go into a business that serves alcoholic drinks ( a liquor store doesn't serve drinks )...CCW can carry if no signs are posted

If a business has posted no firearms allowed you must follow their wishes..

I believe it is a crime to CCW or LOC when signs are posted NO Firearms. It's been a few years but I think my info is current

thenodnarb
07-06-2011, 1:53 PM
so is it OK for a non-resident to CC without a permit? At first I thought this was the case, but seeing as they still have a CCW permit process, I thought maybe it was different for non-residents?

Bigtime1
07-06-2011, 1:59 PM
Wait, its hot in Phoenix?

CalBear
07-06-2011, 1:59 PM
so is it OK for a non-resident to CC without a permit? At first I thought this was the case, but seeing as they still have a CCW permit process, I thought maybe it was different for non-residents?
Wyoming restricted CC to residents. Arizona, as far as I know, did not. That said the CCW permit provides a few things:

- Clear exemption from the federal GFSZ law.
- Ability to carry in more places, such as restaurants / bars that serve alcohol.
- Reciprocity with other states.

J.D.Allen
07-06-2011, 2:17 PM
I cant say about Phoenix but the biggest reaction you'll get to LOC in Yuma is a yawn...if anyone even notices at all. You do not have to tell an officer you are armed unless they ask you. Then you must tell the truth and surrender the weapon to them if they ask for it but only for the duration of the lawful detention. I'm just going to ignore the attention whore comment due to its intrinsic ignorance...

As far as bars if you have a ccw you can carry inside but it must be concealed. No OC in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises including restaurants. You also cannot drink any alcohol while carrying.

As far as I am aware signs that say no weapons only have the force of law when they are posted at places that sell alcohol NOT for consumption on the premises (liquor stores and grocery stores etc.) but dont quote me on that. In other types of businesses the only thing that has the force of law is the request of a representative of the business that you either store the weapon or leave. It is a trespassing charge if you are asked to disarm or leave and you refuse. But AFAIK merely carrying into a business that has a sign is not a violation of law, so if you just conceal and go in despite the sign, and someone makes you and calls the cops without first asking you to leave there are no criminal charges.

Violating the provisions in regard to alcohol and weapons are misdemeanors and can carry jail sentences.

IANAL so this is just my interpretion of what I have read in the statutes...I have read almost all of the statutes pertaining to firearms but YMMV and all that.

dustoff31
07-06-2011, 2:22 PM
LOC is more common in the 'outback'. While AZ doesn't have the retarded mindset of CA it's still not a common occurance in downtown Phoenix and may raise an eyebrow or two.

For the life of me, please explain the novelty of LOC unless one is just an attention whore? In a place where it's legal to cc just keep it covered. Why would one want to draw attention to oneself?
Rio

A pretty accurate summary I think. Here in Northwestern AZ, OC around town generally screams CA visitor. I don't think it's so much to get attention, just trying out something new. The forbidden fruit thing.



As far as bars if you have a ccw you can carry inside but it must be concealed. No OC in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises including restaurants. You also cannot drink any alcohol while carrying.

As far as I am aware signs that say no weapons only have the force of law when they are posted at places that sell alcohol NOT for consumption on the premises (liquor stores and grocery stores etc.) but dont quote me on that.

Correct. Anywhere other than a place serving alcohol violating a no guns sign is not a crime. But it does become trespassing (a crime) if you refuse to leave when told to do so.

Bigtime1
07-06-2011, 2:24 PM
Wyoming restricted CC to residents. Arizona, as far as I know, did not. That said the CCW permit provides a few things:

- Clear exemption from the federal GFSZ law.
- Ability to carry in more places, such as restaurants / bars that serve alcohol.
- Reciprocity with other states.

If your paperwork is in order and you have acceptable proof of training you can get an AZ CCW permit in just a few weeks all by mail. The AZ DPS people are very helpful.

Agent Orange
07-06-2011, 2:29 PM
OP: There's lot of bad info in this thread. Too much for me to correct. I suggest studying the law further or asking the folks over at arizonashooting.com

dustoff31
07-06-2011, 2:53 PM
OP: There's lot of bad info in this thread. Too much for me to correct. I suggest studying the law further or asking the folks over at arizonashooting.com

Care to offer a couple of examples? I don't see any bad info. And there are at least two AZ residents who have posted in this thread.

IGOTDIRT4U
07-06-2011, 2:53 PM
LOC is more common in the 'outback'. While AZ doesn't have the retarded mindset of CA it's still not a common occurance in downtown Phoenix and may raise an eyebrow or two.

For the life of me, please explain the novelty of LOC unless one is just an attention whore? In a place where it's legal to cc just keep it covered. Why would one want to draw attention to oneself?
Rio

LOC is handy when you are driving in a 4wd vehicle on rough road, or in the back country, for a faster, cleaner draw. LOC in the cities, not so much needed, and I agree, I prefer CCW. Biggest town I see LOC in is Flagstaff, and I have never seen LOC in PHoenix, not that it is not done, just it is rare enough I haven't seen it.

As to legalities. Those signs asking you to NOT carry, LOC or CCW, are enforceable. The opt out system was a trade off with the legislature for the Con Carry bill. If you are in an establishment that has one of those signs, bar or not, you cannot carry there, CCW or LOC, unless you have a permit. CCW permit holders can carry more places, but have restrictions such as drinking in bars and certain food establishments, government places and of course, schools. I believe they have the right to ask you to leave immediately, and only does the law get involved if you don't (argue with the property owner/operator you have 'rights', etc.).

GWbiker
07-06-2011, 3:29 PM
I cant say about Phoenix but the biggest reaction you'll get to LOC in Yuma is a yawn...if anyone even notices at all. You do not have to tell an officer you are armed unless they ask you. Then you must tell the truth and surrender the weapon to them if they ask for it but only for the duration of the lawful detention. I'm just going to ignore the attention whore comment due to its intrinsic ignorance...

As far as bars if you have a ccw you can carry inside but it must be concealed. No OC in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises including restaurants. You also cannot drink any alcohol while carrying.

As far as I am aware signs that say no weapons only have the force of law when they are posted at places that sell alcohol NOT for consumption on the premises (liquor stores and grocery stores etc.) but dont quote me on that. In other types of businesses the only thing that has the force of law is the request of a representative of the business that you either store the weapon or leave. It is a trespassing charge if you are asked to disarm or leave and you refuse. But AFAIK merely carrying into a business that has a sign is not a violation of law, so if you just conceal and go in despite the sign, and someone makes you and calls the cops without first asking you to leave there are no criminal charges.

Violating the provisions in regard to alcohol and weapons are misdemeanors and can carry jail sentences.

IANAL so this is just my interpretion of what I have read in the statutes...I have read almost all of the statutes pertaining to firearms but YMMV and all that.

A clear concise view of our Arizona weapon law concerning CC in a business that serves alcohol by the drink and OC on Arizona public streets.

We LOC in Arizona because we can and if you Kommyfornya tourists don't like it, then STFO of Arizona.

SDS-Ruger
07-06-2011, 3:59 PM
:iagree: 100%

CalBear
07-06-2011, 4:13 PM
I think I understand most of the laws now. The one that still confuses me the most is regarding "no firearms" signs.

I see that in the law that allows Arizona CCW permit holders to carry in establishments that serve alcohol, the liquor license holder can post a "no firearms" sign, and that actually dictates whether or not the permit holder can carry on the premises. I would assume when other, non alcohol-serving establishments post "no firearms," it is private property issue, where if you're asked to leave or to disarm, you'll need to do so.

After hearing the feedback, I'll bring both of my holsters, but I'll plan on using the IWB at all times unless I feel there's go reason to do otherwise.

For the record, I'm awaiting an AZ permit, but I'm already an OR and FL permit holder.

Riodog
07-06-2011, 4:28 PM
Care to offer a couple of examples? I don't see any bad info. And there are at least two AZ residents who have posted in this thread.

Help me out here Dustoff, what are we forgetting except that when I got my Az ccw the training had to be on AZ soil. Also one of the benefits is you's pays your money and you get's your gun.

Maybe I should change my location to Mesa, Ehrenberg, and Corona.
Rio

IGOTDIRT4U
07-06-2011, 4:34 PM
Help me out here Dustoff, what are we forgetting except that when I got my Az ccw the training had to be on AZ soil. Also one of the benefits is you's pays your money and you get's your gun.

Maybe I should change my location to Mesa, Ehrenberg, and Corona.
Rio

Does the training still need to be on AZ soil to get your initial permit?

Riodog
07-06-2011, 4:39 PM
Sorry not sure so I won't answer. I would think yes for the Az permit however you don't need the permit to carry. It's sorta like a learners permit. You can do so much but not everything.
Rio

Quiet
07-06-2011, 4:46 PM
Does the training still need to be on AZ soil to get your initial permit?

No.

When AZ went "constitutional carry", they also relaxed their CCW permit training requirements.

dustoff31
07-06-2011, 5:05 PM
Help me out here Dustoff, what are we forgetting except that when I got my Az ccw the training had to be on AZ soil. Also one of the benefits is you's pays your money and you get's your gun.

Maybe I should change my location to Mesa, Ehrenberg, and Corona.
Rio

I think we've covered it pretty well. Oh, State/county/local parks. You can carry in parks with a CCW even if it's posted no guns. GFSZ exemption with a CCW. As if that were a concern in AZ.

dustoff31
07-06-2011, 5:15 PM
I think I understand most of the laws now. The one that still confuses me the most is regarding "no firearms" signs.

I see that in the law that allows Arizona CCW permit holders to carry in establishments that serve alcohol, the liquor license holder can post a "no firearms" sign, and that actually dictates whether or not the permit holder can carry on the premises.

Correct. If the, let's say bar, is not posted. You may carry there with a CCW. You may not consume alcohol. You may not OC or Const. Carry.

If a bar is posted. You may not carry there at all, in any manner. It is a crime. Misconduct with Weapons. You will go to jail and you CCW will be revoked.


I would assume when other, non alcohol-serving establishments post "no firearms," it is private property issue, where if you're asked to leave or to disarm, you'll need to do so.

Correct again.

CalBear
07-16-2011, 11:00 PM
So I'm in Phoenix and I carried today. I must say, I find the ARS 4-229 law really annoying. It is definitely a good step to be able to carry on the premises of a liquor license holder, but it's annoying to never know whether or not a restaurant or other establishment will have a posted sign. The statue does excuse going in to look for a firearms prohibited sign. It also says being a non resident is an affirmative defense. Still, I find it really annoying that no guns signs are given force of law over mere private property issues.

Also I should note, I visited a museum that had listed on their entrance "Pursuant to ARS 4.229, No Weapons Allowed." It's sort of funny to see complete misuses of that statute. The museum was obviously not a liquor license holder, and the signage wasn't even close to the ARS requirement.

I will say it has been nice to carry, and I've enjoyed my time here so far.

gunsmith
07-17-2011, 10:56 AM
LOC is legal in NV as well, around here in northern NV you only see it once in awhile.
When I do it its generall because its to damm hot for a vest or I'm running errands or I just plain simply forgot a vest or my wallet - you can only ccw if you have your permit with you.

People who call it (LOC) attention seeking have serious codependency issues, they think what other people do/say/wear has something to do with them. It doesn't.
People who go around imagining they know what other people are thinking are nucking futts

dmax11
07-17-2011, 11:12 AM
can't help you too much but i was in the Phoenix area earlier this year for spring training and every bar i went to had no firearms signs posted, don't recall seeing them anywhere else though

J.D.Allen
07-17-2011, 12:24 PM
Update:

After re-reading the statutes on the posted no firearms signs, I would say that if you see a fairly conspicuous sign anywhere, doesn't matter what kind of business it is, you can be charged with criminal trespassing (3rd class misdo with potential county time) if you carry on the property even if you are not asked to leave. I used to think the signs themselves only had the force of law behind them in regards to alcohol. I now think otherwise.

fiddletown
07-17-2011, 3:17 PM
In numerous visits to Arizona over the last 15 years, I guess I've seen fewer than ten people open carrying. But then again, no one seems to pay much attention to them. I carry concealed there (have had a permit since 2002).

donw
07-18-2011, 8:13 AM
In numerous visits to Arizona over the last 15 years, I guess I've seen fewer than ten people open carrying. But then again, no one seems to pay much attention to them. I carry concealed there (have had a permit since 2002).

likewise for approximately 30 years; my wife and i are regular visitors to AZ, the Yuma, Flagstaff and Camp Verde areas, mostly.

i do not carry concealed or otherwise myself, and again, folks over there don't get paranoid at the sight of someone wearing a sidearm openly.

i once saw a cowboy near the Dewey-Humboldt area out on horseback with his Colt SAA, chaps, Winchester lever in a saddle holster, etc just like what we would envision a 1880's era cowboy to look like.

did my heart good to see what freedom from legislative oppression can be like...