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View Full Version : BassProShops and off-roster PPT


TBX
07-04-2011, 5:26 PM
I was going to buy an off-roster XDM from another calguns member. Basspro in Manteca seemed to be the best place of meet for the two of us so I called up Basspro around 6pm today. The first guy that I spoke to said that they don't do off-roster private party transfers. I asked him why and he stuttered a bit and said that's just the way they were told to do things. I told him he can call DOJ and confirm the laws behind it. He got a little confused so he transferred me to someone else. A guy named Justin picked up the phone and replied that they can only do PPT transfers of off-roster guns if the seller is a police officer that has a department letterhead stating that the department approves the sale. I asked if he knew anything about California laws on private party transfers. He avoided the question by stating that that's just the way he was told to do things and wasn't sure if its CA laws or Basspro policy.

I don't work for Basspro but I'm sure these guys just don't have a clue on what they're talking about. Maybe they're just trying to make up some BS answers for questions they don't neccessarily come across. I should probably call DOJ and make a complaint as well as calling Basspro shops corporate office. Well enough of my rant....

Tweaksalot
07-04-2011, 5:37 PM
I'm sure its a bass pro shops store policy. Why even sweat it? Just find a different shop.

G60
07-04-2011, 6:05 PM
They just didn't want to 'waste time' with a ppt.

BannedinBritain
07-04-2011, 6:36 PM
If you wish...show up with the firearm and tell them you wish to do a private party transaction, in accordance with CA law. If they deny you, call DOJ and report them for non-compliance of CA PC 12082. Then find another shop.

Or you can just skip to the find another shop part. :D

Munk
07-04-2011, 6:42 PM
Misdemeanor refusal to do a legal PPT when they're sellers of pistols.

They could duck the whole thing by discontinuing their sales of pistols and refusing pistol PPTs, but that's unlikely.

Basspro almost always shies away from anything they don't understand. I've been told flat-out that TC Contender/Encore/G2 are illegal. (Very much not). I've been told by them that there's no way to get an AR-15 type rifle in CA (within the last 2 years no less). One even said he called the cops when a guy tried to PPT one (his story, not mine) but the cops didn't do anything (duh). And another who said posession of an off-roster pistol was illegal.

Combine sales people who refuse to learn their products, with bad management, bad district management, etc... and you have a recipe for ignorance, FUD, and irritation; and as a result, the company has committed a misdemeanor.

TempleKnight
07-04-2011, 8:48 PM
I did a PPT at the Manteca store about 6 mo ago. It was an STI Grandmaster race gun, seriously off roster. I had no problems. They handled the transaction just like I was buying something from them. Neither the seller or me are LEO.

Cokebottle
07-04-2011, 9:01 PM
They just didn't want to 'waste time' with a ppt.
And likewise, you don't want to waste your time doing a PPT at that zoo.

Wernher von Browning
07-04-2011, 9:05 PM
Well, to say one good thing about them -- they'll give you a "free" membership in the NRA. (Assuming you can make use of their $25 gift card). See this Calguns post.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=450764

TBX
07-04-2011, 10:58 PM
I'm sure its a bass pro shops store policy. Why even sweat it? Just find a different shop.

well its because i get off at 5pm and cannot make the drive from Sacramento down to the Modesto area in time before most FFLs close. My only day off is Monday but the FFLs I found are closed S/M

I did file a complaint with BassPro. Their Retail Administration Department will review my case # and respond within 2 to 3 days. I'm also going to call DOJ to see what they can do..

Droc101
07-04-2011, 11:05 PM
why bother telling them that it was off roster. TMI is TMI is TMI

Rattlehead
07-05-2011, 12:36 AM
It is BassPro's store policy.

I went there to do a PPT of an off-roster handgun with another Calguns member and was met with a couple of individuals that did not know why they could not do it. According to them they just 'couldn't'.

It took probably 20 minutes of nonsense until the manager came out and explained that they do not do PPT's of off-roster handguns due to store policy.

If it's policy, then I can understand (even if it does suck). It just would of been nice to have spoken with an employee that actually knew what he was talking about. Having a bad attitude from two of employee's did not help either.

Droc101
07-05-2011, 1:05 AM
It is BassPro's store policy.

I went there to do a PPT of an off-roster handgun with another Calguns member and was met with a couple of individuals that did not know why they could not do it. According to them they just 'couldn't'.

It took probably 20 minutes of nonsense until the manager came out and explained that they do not do PPT's of off-roster handguns due to store policy.

If it's policy, then I can understand (even if it does suck). It just would of been nice to have spoken with an employee that actually knew what he was talking about. Having a bad attitude from two of employee's did not help either.

I do believe that policy is a misdemeanor, is it not?

Bruce
07-05-2011, 1:36 AM
Whether or not it's store policy is a moot point. State law supercedes their store policy. What's her name the AG wouldn't mind shutting them down for a violation of state firearms law no matter how trivial. I guess they've never seen the "gun" department at Wal-Mart.

3GunFunShooter
07-05-2011, 4:33 AM
Tracy Rifle and Pistol is only 10 min away from the Bass Pro Shop.
If it is store policy it is store policy. Take your business some where else.
Most of the sales people are retired, just want something to do and get a discount on their supplies, make a little extra income.
You posted that you called on July 4th at 6PM, they are working on a holiday probably near closing time, want to go home and be with their family and friends, and you get upset about them not giving you the answer you want.
There are at least 10 Gun Shops between Sac and Modesto and I'm sure all were closed yesterday.
I hope your complaint does not get them shut down from selling firearms.
If it does you will have pissed off a lot of customers and Cal Gun members.
Just what we need with your complaint is to have a store that has good selection on ammo and gear loose their license from your complaint to DOJ.
To be honest, as a business owner, I would not want to do business with a customer with your attitude.

Andy Taylor
07-05-2011, 6:11 AM
First it is an illegal store policy. I would report it to DOJ.

Second I have done two off roster PPTs at that location. One I was the seller, one I was the buyer. No LEOs involved in either transaction. (actually it was a trade so same two people in both PPTs) No drama, no questions about off roster etc.

fairfaxjim
07-05-2011, 7:54 AM
Tracy Rifle and Pistol is only 10 min away from the Bass Pro Shop.
If it is store policy it is store policy. Take your business some where else.
Most of the sales people are retired, just want something to do and get a discount on their supplies, make a little extra income.
You posted that you called on July 4th at 6PM, they are working on a holiday probably near closing time, want to go home and be with their family and friends, and you get upset about them not giving you the answer you want.
There are at least 10 Gun Shops between Sac and Modesto and I'm sure all were closed yesterday.
I hope your complaint does not get them shut down from selling firearms.
If it does you will have pissed off a lot of customers and Cal Gun members.
Just what we need with your complaint is to have a store that has good selection on ammo and gear loose their license from your complaint to DOJ.
To be honest, as a business owner, I would not want to do business with a customer with your attitude.

Unfortunately, none of your concerns deal with the facts here. The sale and transfer of firearms in CA is HIGHLY regulated and those regulations are what determine how CA LICENSED FIREARMS DEALERS are REQUIRED to accomplish these transactions. STORE POLICY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, PERIOD, it is a matter of state law. Theses a*****e regulations are already almost impossible to deal with. If every retailer decides to make up their own to go along with it, we will soon have absolutely no idea what can and can't be transferred.

It is interesting that the larger retailers are the ones who want to make up their own rules regarding firearms sales. The truth of the matter is that, given your profile of "Most of the sales people," then Bass Pro should not be selling firearms - ask WalMart how that worked out for them.

loose_electron
07-05-2011, 8:18 AM
Whether or not it's store policy is a moot point. State law supercedes their store policy. What's her name the AG wouldn't mind shutting them down for a violation of state firearms law no matter how trivial. I guess they've never seen the "gun" department at Wal-Mart.

Take your money elsewhere and leave it be - what you just said above is that you want to take action to shut a gun store! No, let that go and take the PPT to another shop.

77bawls
07-05-2011, 1:19 PM
Take your money elsewhere and leave it be - what you just said above is that you want to take action to shut a gun store! No, let that go and take the PPT to another shop.

What you don't realize is large companies strive to be in accordance with the law. If they are unaware, somebody needs to make them aware.

CHS
07-05-2011, 1:24 PM
What I want to know is, how do they even KNOW it's an off-roster gun?

When you input a PPT into the DROS entry system, the roster NEVER comes up. Ever. Period. You just input the make/model/serial number/caliber/barrel length/etc/etc/etc and process the transfer.

The only way they would know is if they ARENT doing PPT's, and are instead taking the guns into dealer inventory and then "selling" the gun via a standard handgun DROS.

But then that means they are charging an illegal 10$ fee because it is no longer a PPT.

loose_electron
07-05-2011, 1:26 PM
What you don't realize is large companies strive to be in accordance with the law. If they are unaware, somebody needs to make them aware.

Its a good point - but the kid out on the floor selling things is not the one to get in the face of.

Corporate legal counsel is the audience needed. They sort it out and then define "company policy" - people should not be beating up on people out on the sales floor who are just following orders from those that pay them.

thevic
07-05-2011, 1:29 PM
Manteca bass pro tried charging me seperate DrOS for two rifles, looked at me stupid for askibg if they carry a heavy barreled rem700, and took a total of 2 hours to DROS a rifle and another hour for pickup. They also said i cannot add aditional longuns to the DROS on pickup day

Wernher von Browning
07-05-2011, 4:23 PM
I'm hesitant to condemn Bass Pro right off the bat. (Disclaimer: I think I've only ever bought one item from them, a box of reloading bullets a year ago).

It appears that the corporation, and CEO Johnny Morris, are very pro-2A and pro-NRA. If one googles "Bass Pro Shops" "Johnny Morris" NRA you find a ton of news releases, most involving their sponsorship of NASCAR teams.

Clearly what we have heauh is a fail-yoor to com-mu-nee-cate. I wonder if a direct approach, with a succinct letter outlining the facts of these incidents and the applicable CA laws, sent directly to the CEO's office, might not result in some internal memos or retraining.

Bruce
07-05-2011, 7:01 PM
Take your money elsewhere and leave it be - what you just said above is that you want to take action to shut a gun store! No, let that go and take the PPT to another shop.

Really? I merely pointed out that if they don't change their policy, someday the DOJ will yank their license like they did Wal-Mart. Nowhere did I advocate calling DOJ to report them, nor did I express the wish that they be shut down.

TBX
07-05-2011, 9:40 PM
I'm hesitant to condemn Bass Pro right off the bat. (Disclaimer: I think I've only ever bought one item from them, a box of reloading bullets a year ago).

It appears that the corporation, and CEO Johnny Morris, are very pro-2A and pro-NRA. If one googles "Bass Pro Shops" "Johnny Morris" NRA you find a ton of news releases, most involving their sponsorship of NASCAR teams.

Clearly what we have heauh is a fail-yoor to com-mu-nee-cate. I wonder if a direct approach, with a succinct letter outlining the facts of these incidents and the applicable CA laws, sent directly to the CEO's office, might not result in some internal memos or retraining.


Well I didn't say anything about condemned or shutting down the store. I love the store but some employees just needs training. My letter to their retail admin department didn't say anything about how bad their store is or how rude their employees were. My intentions were to get them up to speed so that other people won't have to suffer from their lack of knowledge.

Some of you were too quick to attack and defend (no names)

TBX
07-05-2011, 10:02 PM
What I want to know is, how do they even KNOW it's an off-roster gun?

When you input a PPT into the DROS entry system, the roster NEVER comes up. Ever. Period. You just input the make/model/serial number/caliber/barrel length/etc/etc/etc and process the transfer.

The only way they would know is if they ARENT doing PPT's, and are instead taking the guns into dealer inventory and then "selling" the gun via a standard handgun DROS.

But then that means they are charging an illegal 10$ fee because it is no longer a PPT.

Xdm mags are labeled more than 10 rds

dantodd
07-05-2011, 10:42 PM
When you actually go in and get denied a PPT (without mentioning the Roster) I will get concerned. The fact that retail employees don't know the law and rely on the computer to do their job worries me but it is a fact of life I have come to accept.

Most likely the salesdroid heard roster and searched his brain to find only a vague reference that said "we don't sell or deal in any off roster handguns."

battleship
07-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Congrats you just saved youre self about an hour and a half doing the PPT there and 2 hours picking it up. That place is a joke when dealing with firearms. Nice store though for everything else.

Droc101
07-06-2011, 10:06 AM
But then that means they are charging an illegal 10$ fee because it is no longer a PPT.

What is the illegal $10 fee?

CHS
07-06-2011, 10:58 AM
What is the illegal $10 fee?

They would be charging an additional 10$ to the DROS fee. That's illegal. DROS fees cannot, by law, be made out to be anything other than $25. You can charge "handling" fees or "certification" fees or "we're turners and want 5$ just because" fees, but you cannot charge any fee that looks like it's part of the DROS.

Fowlers gun room is guilty of this.

The law allows you to charge a 10$ transfer fee *IF* it's part of a private party transfer.

ke6guj
07-06-2011, 11:17 AM
They would be charging an additional 10$ to the DROS fee. That's illegal. DROS fees cannot, by law, be made out to be anything other than $25. You can charge "handling" fees or "certification" fees or "we're turners and want 5$ just because" fees, but you cannot charge any fee that looks like it's part of the DROS.

Fowlers gun room is guilty of this.

The law allows you to charge a 10$ transfer fee *IF* it's part of a private party transfer.
right, but I assume that BPS would list that $10 fee as something other than a DROS fee.

blazeaglory
07-06-2011, 11:21 AM
Its a good point - but the kid out on the floor selling things is not the one to get in the face of.

Corporate legal counsel is the audience needed. They sort it out and then define "company policy" - people should not be beating up on people out on the sales floor who are just following orders from those that pay them.


Exactly but the ones who oversee them should spend more time educating them and should themselves brush up with CA laws.

I say write corporate a letter and explain to them that they are committing a misdemeanor. Large companies fear breaking the law in CA because it is some what confusing and over bearing. THAT is what over regulation has done to CA and that is why so many companies are leaving. Companies need to NOT FEAR. You should help educate them by sending them a nice letter with the codes/laws and explain to them how things work in CA. If they dont understand, shoot them a link to calguns;)

fairfaxjim
07-06-2011, 12:09 PM
Manteca bass pro .....
They also said i cannot add aditional longuns to the DROS on pickup day

Unfortunately they got that info directly from the CA DOJ BOF. That doesn't mean that it is accurate information, but that is what the BOF's official stance is. (I can't find a copy of it, but I received that personally in an email from the BOF. They claim that once the DROS is submitted and the customer leaves the store, no additional long guns can be added to that DROS.) The PC doesn't actually support that stance, and there are some dealers who will let you add additional long guns/receivers at the time of pick-up. Some even put numbers like 10 in the number of long guns and then change it to reflect the actual number delivered before completing the 4473. I've personally had it go both ways, added lower at time of pick up, and been denied the ability to add a long gun at pick up of a different long gun.

You can't blame the store for DOJ BOF generated FUD. They have to base their employee training on something, and that is what BassPro has to work with.

Droc101
07-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Unfortunately they got that info directly from the CA DOJ BOF. That doesn't mean that it is accurate information, but that is what the BOF's official stance is. (I can't find a copy of it, but I received that personally in an email from the BOF. They claim that once the DROS is submitted and the customer leaves the store, no additional long guns can be added to that DROS.) The PC doesn't actually support that stance, and there are some dealers who will let you add additional long guns/receivers at the time of pick-up. Some even put numbers like 10 in the number of long guns and then change it to reflect the actual number delivered before completing the 4473. I've personally had it go both ways, added lower at time of pick up, and been denied the ability to add a long gun at pick up of a different long gun.

You can't blame the store for DOJ BOF generated FUD. They have to base their employee training on something, and that is what BassPro has to work with.

DOJ has given my dad's shop the same info. They are the ones that decide whether or not you get to remain an FFL. You kind of have to listen to them, unless you are independently wealthy and can afford closed doors until they get it sorted out.