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Hanse Davion
06-29-2011, 3:45 PM
Ok first the details of the weapon-

Rem 700 SPS Tactical
Nightforce Optic
20 MOA mount

Here is my question- I recently took my weapon to a gunsmith to install a muzzle break, but on top of that asked them about an apparent issue I have with my optic. As it stands, I have zero'd the optic for 100 yards, simple enough. However, in doing so, the turret adjustment for elevation is sitting at the 4th line indicator for the turret. That means it has been through 4 complete revolutions of the elevation adjustment on the optic. To me, that seems like I am wasting alot of elevation adjustment when I get into longer distances, yet the gunsmiths told me using the 20 MOA mount for the optic was needed for longer distance shooting, and didnt seem to have an easy answer for my question.

I havent had experience at long distance shooting yet as it is hard to find a range close enough for me to frequent it, especially while attending classes during the fall and spring, so please forgive my ignorance on the subject.

Photo of the weapon below, although I dont have a close up of the turret to give a good visual as its still at the smith.

Not sure if it really matters too, but after the optic was installed, and boresighted (As I was told by the dealer), the shots were completely off the paper even at 50 yards before I made the adjustment.
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz27/MAttcubeiro/DSC_0082.jpg

CK_32
06-29-2011, 4:07 PM
That is really odd.. I can't think of anything and this is more of a AR style forum. I would say maybe your mount is on back wards but I doubt it. I'd have to see the rifle to be 100% sure of what's wrong because it could be a few things you might be doing wrong on your end.

Also make sure tour clicks are actually working and that your turret isn't spinning or damaged.

Post this is snipershide.com under the optics section and you will get VERY gOod answers and explanations over there great long range forum.

CK_32
06-29-2011, 4:08 PM
Nice looking rifles btw


I have a sps tac as well.

RugerNo1
06-29-2011, 4:11 PM
I am at a loss for words on this one, but you could repeat your question on the CAPRC.com (http://www.caprc.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=10)forum and I am sure one of the gents over there can help.

Edit:
On a closer look. The NF you have has 10 MOA knobs correct? If so, you are about 40MOA from the bottom of your adjustment range which leaves you with about 50-60 MOA left of elevation adjustment. Very much a usuable amount.

Nate87
06-29-2011, 4:32 PM
I have a similar set up. A 700P with 20MOA base and S&B scope. What I had to do was zero my optic at the 100. There was that extra adjustment to make up for the 20MOA cant. Once zero'd, my turrets have allen screws on them to loosen up then set the turret back to zero(no adjustments are made when doing this since the turret cap moves freely when unscrewed) then tighten back up and are ready to rock and roll.

So basically with that 20MOA base you are "zeroing" the the reticle higher in the scopes internal vertical track due to the downward cant therefore you can adjust the drop that much more for longer distance. I dont know if any of this makes any sense but basically instead of having, for example, 50MOA up, down, left and right, with a standard flat base, with the offset 20MOA base you'd have 30up, 70 down and 50 left and right.

Hanse Davion
06-29-2011, 4:40 PM
On a closer look. The NF you have has 10 MOA knobs correct? If so, you are about 40MOA from the bottom of your adjustment range which leaves you with about 50-60 MOA left of elevation adjustment. Very much a usuable amount.

That is correct, it still has about 60% of adjustment left. But my question still stands, why the waste of the other 40%?! (I know I should have at least some adjustment, but it just seems completely excessive)

RugerNo1
06-29-2011, 4:46 PM
That is correct, it still has about 60% of adjustment left. But my question still stands, why the waste of the other 40%?! (I know I should have at least some adjustment, but it just seems completely excessive)

Actually, that is very good because you scope remains closer to the optical center where the glass quality is at its best.

Additionally, a 175 Sierra Matchking launched at 2600 fps needs about 32-34 MOA (rough estimates, but close and will vary by atmospheric conditions) to reach 1000 yards. Therefore, you still have plenty of adjustment.

Hanse Davion
06-29-2011, 4:48 PM
I dont know if any of this makes any sense but basically instead of having, for example, 50MOA up, down, left and right, with a standard flat base, with the offset 20MOA base you'd have 30up, 70 down and 50 left and right.

You're right, it doesnt...lol

I kind of understand, but when your talking about adjusting the drop, thats my point, I dont ever see myself needing to lower the point of impact to such an extent as it would take up a significant amount of that first 40% of adjustment I have used to zero at a mere 100 yards.

The gunsmith explained that the 20 MOA base was needed for that long distance shooting, and that if I went to a 0 MOA base, wouldnt it account for a significant portion of this adjustment and still give me long range capability? This is where I get really confused.

Hanse Davion
06-29-2011, 4:49 PM
Actually, that is very good because you scope remains closer to the optical center where the glass quality is at its best.

Additionally, a 175 Sierra Matchking launched at 2600 fps needs about 32-34 MOA (rough estimates, but close and will vary by atmospheric conditions) to reach 1000 yards. Therefore, you still have plenty of adjustment.

Ok, now that makes sense to me.

RugerNo1
06-29-2011, 5:07 PM
Your "problem" is often encountered by those who elect to purchase a cheaper quality optic that lacks the adjustment range of your Nightforce. That is why you will often see people stating that the canted bases preclude them from having a 100 yard zero, or they are asking why they cannot have one. Some manufacturers cut corners on production to keep the price of their optics low, one of the first things to go is usually adjustment.

In the Practical Precision game, some adjustment below your 100 yard zero is preferred because they often have stages as close as 10 yards. If you are interested, the CAPRC holds matches every month at the Angeles Range. If your are down this way you can come and watch and learn about what people are using and why.

ERdept
06-29-2011, 5:47 PM
Oh,, i feel your pain, but never experienced it. I had a 20 moa rail as well and put the Nightforce optics on and was VERY, very happy.

Maybe on backwards?

Anyway, save yourself some trouble, have a gunsmith mount and boresight it.

I had Bolsa gunsmithing do it, and I was on paper at 50 yards.

After a little adjustment started shooting after the first line breat at 100. No issues.

winxp_man
06-29-2011, 6:14 PM
How many elevation marks does the NF scope have? Also are you sure that you have a 20MOA base ? Is it labled 20 MOA? you with a NF and 20MOA base you should be at the most the 2nd elevation mark.

Hanse Davion
06-29-2011, 6:16 PM
Its actually at Bolsa right now. I have them check to make sure the mount isnt on backwards, although I seriously doubt that, but who knows. If anyone is curious, Fowler's did the mounting and I was told it was in fact boresighted. Funny how it wasnt even close to being on paper even at 50 yards.

oni
06-30-2011, 6:26 AM
Just from looking at the picture the scope base is not on backwards.